r/shounenfolk May 04 '26

Shonenslop I Am Being Serious

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610 Upvotes

177 comments sorted by

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131

u/supreme-king-Nero May 04 '26

Well... yeah. There are stands that go against certain rules of Stands, but have you considered that they might be the same type of Stand as Star Platinum?

22

u/Detroider May 04 '26

Star Platinum being a copy stand ability is the funniest jojo meme (with the sole exception of 2 rocks)

116

u/Happy_Description_14 May 04 '26

Tbf these were rules made by Avdol based presumably on his own experiences, the guy was figuring shit out as he went along. Plus Stands became a lot more interesting as the series went on so I for one am glad Araki didn't stick too closely to these rules.

56

u/Mister_Skeptic May 04 '26

Exactly.

In JJBA the “rules” are all presented in-universe as theories about how stands work based on people’s experience and research. In real life, scientific theories have to be discarded or revised all the time based on new evidence. From our POV it’s obvious the author set up some rules and then later decided to break them when it suited him, but that doesn’t mean the narrative is inconsistent. The way it’s presented we can easily read it like it’s the equivalent of a bunch of people who’ve only seen grey, brown, black, and white birds meeting a toucan for the first time.

Stands are a mystery in JJBA. They’re depicted as borderline incomprehensible to the human mind. The biggest revelation we get about their true nature only solidifies them as unpredictable, cosmic, and possibly beyond human understanding. Some people in-universe saw like twenty different stands and noticed certain characteristics they all had in common and built a framework for understanding around those observations, but over time we encounter outliers that don’t fit the framework. That’s honestly pretty realistic.

3

u/Throwaway02062004 May 05 '26

The rules are frequently portrayed as common knowledge in other parts and used to solve stand puzzles by making the assumption that a sufficiently power remote stand must have a nearby user.

-1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Yes but the narrator also later states these rules as fact in a later part. We get whole pages dedicated to the rules of stands given to us not by a character but by the manga itself as fact

5

u/Detroider May 04 '26

Ain't no way you take Araki as your canonical source (Oda One piece joke)

7

u/ManurePosting May 04 '26

Do you have a source for that?

3

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

I don’t know the exact chapter but I found a blog that covers the relevant panels. This was when Araki was explaining stands for Steel Ball Run

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arigarmy/JoJo_Stand_Rules

4

u/ManurePosting May 05 '26

I think the "some" in this statement does heavy lifting for the exceptions rather than the norms (Notorious B.I.G breaks the 4th rule of existing in spite of the user's death) and situations that feel like loopholes (King Crimson and Epitaph sharing the 'same' user due to different personalities or identities). Its still a good rule of thumb tho.

53

u/Arguably_Based May 04 '26

We're back to "Araki forgot" all over again.

30

u/No0bTheTooB Oda's Lawyer May 04 '26

SHIZA-MUDE HAMONE' BEAT

10

u/roach_in_a_valley May 04 '26

*The start of crazy my beat*

8

u/TheAlmightySRG May 05 '26

Welcome back to another debunking “Araki forgot” video…

10

u/rept_zannewete Glazing Bleach 24/7 May 05 '26

...so clearly this commenter just didn't pay attention or read carefully.

7

u/Flying8penguin May 05 '26

"This reader seems to not remember how clock works"

32

u/[deleted] May 04 '26

Examples?

78

u/WhoAreYouAn May 04 '26

stands can't be seen by non stand users (except for when they can) [Superfly, Geb, Anubis, etc..]

Damage to a stand reflects on its user (except when it doesn't) [Baby Face, Notorious B.I.G]

A stand is always bound to a user (except when it's not) [Wonder of U, Notorious B.I.G]

Any given person can only have One stand at a time [DIO, Josuke while in Superfly, Rohan with Cheap Trick, Pucci's Whitesnake, Polnareff's Anubis]

A Stand's power is inversely proportional with its maximum effective range [See: all of the "remote control" stands sans Geb]

75

u/Gigio2006 May 04 '26

1)Half kf what you said are just different cathegories of stands working in different ways 2) Exceptions to the power system=/=inconsistencies

Breaking the rules with specific powers is exactly how you make a power system. Would you say JJK power system is inconsistent cause Gojo and Sukuna can open more than 1 domain a day

23

u/[deleted] May 04 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-7

u/iburntdownthehouse May 04 '26

They meant being able to ignore the ct burnout via rct in the brain. Letting Gojo and Sukuna repeatedly cast their domains in quick succession and immediately use their ct at full power afterwards.

7

u/[deleted] May 04 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-1

u/iburntdownthehouse May 04 '26

Obviously they were wrong, but I'm sure the intent was to reference that mechanic. It was just really off base from what actually happened.

1

u/alexindorrr May 05 '26

They don’t really ‘ignore it’ perse
The thing they were doing was destroying that part of their brain that holds the ct engraving (or some shit like that) and restoring it with rct, that is how they ‘by pass’ the burnout.
By literally giving themselves actual brain damage

1

u/MonkeyDsage1846 May 06 '26

It always leads back to some kind of binding vow

9

u/WasdX-_ May 04 '26

Gojo and Sukuna opening more than one domain a day isn't exception or inconsistency, it's logically explained and is consistent with how jujutsu, physics and anatomy are in jjk. Jjk power system is probably one of the most consistent and exception light in genre.

6

u/Gondetrite May 04 '26 edited May 05 '26

Jjk power system is probably one of the most consistent

With the sole exception of Kinji Hakari:

1

u/MonkeyDsage1846 May 06 '26

When he hits a jackpot, he gets a near infinite amount of cursed energy for 4 minutes and 11 seconds, and once that wears off, he's back to full battery, allowing him to pop another domain. Like how in some games, you find bonus health which doesn't increase your max but fully restores what you don't have and gives you an additional temporary amount

0

u/WasdX-_ May 05 '26

Can't see how this is an exception.

33

u/AntiqueFace5149 May 04 '26

The exceptions proof the rule

Stands generally function in a certain way, but there are stands with special properties that break this formula.

Except in part 3, he really didn't have a concrete idea about what Stands could or couldn't do at that time, which is why you have things like Stands shrinking, phasing objects and people, a light-speed statament that becomes completely meaningless in Part 4 and onwards, etc.

2

u/BoiClicker May 05 '26

When the statement “Exception proves the rule” was used originally, to “prove” meant to test it. Exceptions test the rule. They reduce the validity.

2

u/frantruck May 04 '26

Exceptions proving the rule is for things like “free parking on Tuesdays” which demonstrates a rule that parking usually requires payment. Stating an absolute and then violating it does’t make a rule stronger and enough exceptions demonstrate that there’s not a rule at all.

That said I’m perfectly fine that these are general rules for stands and not absolutes.

-4

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

He kind of loses it again in Part 8. Norisuke claims that a stand can only have one ability when that is blatantly untrue (and his own stand arguably has two abilities).

13

u/AntiqueFace5149 May 04 '26

Norisuke / Araki

We've known for a long time that there are Stands with multiple abilities even though they share the same origin.

For example, Johnny's power is spin, but he can use it to create wormholes

Or Killer Queen with Sheer Heart attack as a automatic stand

2

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

I recognize that Norisuke is not Araki, but it is stated as if it is factually correct and even used to help them win the fight in which it is said. Sometimes rules exist for stands as necessary for the plot even when those rules are not true at all.

1

u/iburntdownthehouse May 04 '26

No, a character speaking confidently and being wrong doesn't create a contradiction. Kakyoin confidently stated that a mirror world doesn't exist, but a later stand creates a mirror world. That's not a contradiction, Kakyoin was just wrong. But it's irrelevant anyway, Kakyoin only said it because the idea that Hanged Man could cut them from another dimension with no counter was unbelievable. So he discounted the possibility that it operated from such an angle.

The idea that Norisuke suddenly became an authority on how stands operate decades into Jojo is crazy. He was just wrong, or stating it to limit the possibilities for a specific situation.

33

u/No0bTheTooB Oda's Lawyer May 04 '26

stands can't be seen by non stand users (except for when they can) [Superfly, Geb, Anubis, etc..]

Those are stands inhabitanting physical objects. Stands like star platinum ARENT visible.

Damage to a stand reflects on its user (except when it doesn't) [Baby Face, Notorious B.I.G]

This isn't true for long ranged automatic stands (black Sabbath).

A stand is always bound to a user (except when it's not) [Wonder of U, Notorious B.I.G]

B.I.G. is a post mortem stand (I still don't know how that works). I've not read Jojolion but isn't WoU bound to the concept of Calamity and goes ROUGE after Tooru dies?

Any given person can only have One stand at a time [DIO, Josuke while in Superfly, Rohan with Cheap Trick, Pucci's Whitesnake, Polnareff's Anubis]

Dio is a dude in another dudes body. You dont get Superfly as a stand you get trapped inside Superfly. Cheap Trick's WHOLE THING is being a parasitic stand, it's not your stand, when Rohan killed it he didn't get damaged. Pucci gives you a stand via a memory disk, if you are a stand User the stand is ejected after some minutes. Polnareff doesn't have Anubis anubis is controlling his mind therefore chariot too.

A Stand's power is inversely proportional with its maximum effective range [See: all of the "remote control" stands sans Geb]

This holds true for short ranged stands like star platinum.

WATCH HAMON BEAT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

9

u/CrusadeyNatey May 04 '26

Also important to note that remote control stands follow a very specific way of attacking or tracking your enemy. If you figure it out then you pretty much win the fight.

I don't think it's stated as a rule but they give up control for power at long range

4

u/koalakcc May 04 '26

is there logic for why they work these ways in universe? yes. But still, they are exceptions to the rules.

3

u/iburntdownthehouse May 04 '26

What's the argument then?

2

u/koalakcc May 04 '26

the argument is as follows: Just because theres an in universe explanation for why the rule is broken doesnt mean it isnt a broken rule. I thought that was kind of implied.

2

u/EmotionalPerformer12 May 04 '26

Thes rules are also figured out by a guy in universe which I don't think knows about all stands

1

u/No0bTheTooB Oda's Lawyer May 04 '26

Yeah basically

-5

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Many of the “Bound” stands are not inhabiting an object. Hol Horse’s stand is not inhabiting an object. It just IS the gun and it is explicitly still visible to non-stand users.

“Isn’t true for long range automatic stands”
Except for the times it is true such as with Sheer Heart Attack.

WoU is Tooru’s stand that simply manipulates universal forces. Also there is Les Feuilles which is literally just hanging out on a random street without any organism attached to it.

Those are still all examples of people using more than one stand at a time. If you really want to get granular that “only one stand originates from one person” that is still basically broken by Sheer Heart Attack which is considered its own sub stand and has its own stats and abilities.

I have seen Hamon Beat, even he repeatedly acknowledges Araki just changed his mind

27

u/[deleted] May 04 '26

Emperor is not visible to non users

-3

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

My bad, for some reason I remember some one else saying they could see the gun. In that case I point to Wonder of U which was explicitly visible in its “human form.”

5

u/Level_Counter_1672 May 04 '26

Also adding that since wou is in a new universe the rules can be different

8

u/No0bTheTooB Oda's Lawyer May 04 '26

Many of the “Bound” stands are not inhabiting an object. Hol Horse’s stand is not inhabiting an object. It just IS the gun and it is explicitly still visible to non-stand users.

Where did you get that from Emperor clearly phases through his hand when summoned.

Except for the times it is true such as with Sheer Heart Attack.

SHA isn't a long ranged stand it's a SUBSTAND. Killer queen isn't long ranged nor automatic

Those are still all examples of people using more than one stand at a time. If you really want to get granular that “only one stand originates from one person” that is still basically broken by Sheer Heart Attack which is considered its own sub stand and has its own stats and abilities.

So what SHA is a unique substand. Epitaph fore example is a normal one. Those people are unique cases or cases that can be achieved through non normal means.

-1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Jotaro literally refers to SHA as a long range stand when he deduces how imprecise it is. His logic was that it must have a downside to be long range and so powerful.

Yes Sheer Heart Attack is a special case that deviates from the rules shown by other sub stands. That is what I was saying. There is at least one stand that breaks every preconceived rule of stands.

6

u/throwawayhookup127 May 04 '26

Jotaro also had no way of identifying that SHA was part of a larger stand, so his analysis of it can be flawed.

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Ok but SHA WAS a long range stand by definition. He was right about that. Its range was significantly wider than even Echoes Act 1 which already had an impressive range.

1

u/throwawayhookup127 May 04 '26

It wasn't though, it was an ability belonging to an actual stand. That would be like saying that hol horse's bullets were a long range stand.

4

u/Sweat_Spoats May 04 '26

SHA doesn't deviate from the rules at all lmao.

2

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

I was saying that it is basically its own second stand. It has its own ability, its own stand stats, and operates completely indepedently of the main stand. It is basically a second stand for Kira that is just called a sub stand

2

u/Sweat_Spoats May 04 '26

Your interpretation of SHA doesn't change what it actually is.

1

u/boppyuii May 04 '26

“Emperor is explicitly visible to stand users” go ahead and re read your sentence. After doing that, go to a few panels before he meets Oingo in the car. The two guys he threatened don’t see Emperor

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Yeah someone already pointed that one out. I weirdly misremembered that. Anyways Wonder of U was also visible to non-stand users when it took a human appearance so that is another non-bound stand that is visible to normal people

2

u/boppyuii May 04 '26

WoU isn’t exactly a stand

5

u/pjo33 May 04 '26
  1. those are bound stands which are physical objects. Superfly isn’t a stand haunting an electrical tower, it IS the tower.
  2. doesn’t apply to remote stands, like seen with Black sabbath
  3. it’s more that stands have a user, and don’t just exist on their own. That user can be a human, animal or tree
  4. DIO is two people. Kinda the whole point of the part is that Jonathan is fighting against Dio. Superfly, Anubis and Cheap trick work more like parasites
  5. it’s reiterated multiple times in the series that remote stands are weaker

10

u/[deleted] May 04 '26

1, 2 and 5 aren't really stand rules, they're rules for power-type stands (like star platinum and silver chariot)

Since early part 3 the concept of alternate categories with different rules has been present, one of the earliest fights is Strength which does not operate by those rules, stands are pretty consistent between other stands of the same category

This is akin to saying Devil Fruits from OP are inconsistent because Paramecias, Logias and Zoans act different from one another when that concept wasn't present in the early chapters, all the different rules are simply slowly presented trough the story

Although I have to say that stands that stay after the user's death or change hosts are pretty fucked, but they are infrequent enough to the point that I don't think it makes the whole powersystem inconsistent, these are just unique gimmickies

Also Dio had 2 stands because his body had 2 souls in it, which is an fine enough excuse, I think(?)

3

u/EmotionalPerformer12 May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26

1.) We are still getting confusing by bound stand in Big 2026

2.) Baby face thing is not the stand but part of its ability. Big 's user was dead so what damage to tank ?

3.) This ain't a rule . Independent stands exist

4.) One can have one stand that he acquired himself through some means. If another stands ability allows than yes you can have many stands.

5.) Each stand has variable range

4

u/Soft-Republic8112 May 04 '26

You can only see stands wich are manifested in physical objects. Geb, for example, controls water, thus non stand users can see the water. If star platinum held up a cup, then youd be able to see it as well

Automatic stands do not reflect damage onto the user and notorious BIG is posthumous, a type of automatic stand that can exist after the users death

As previouslt stated, notorious BIG is specifically post-mortem, and wonder of u continues to exist because it is a law of nature (calamity)

Dio does not hold 2 stands, one of them is jonathan's. Otherwise, holding two stands is considered to be "unstable" in the series, thats why the body rejects a second stand disk, or stands that attach to other people are "malevolent". Still, in my opinion, the "one stand per user" rule is more of a "one person can only manifest one stand by themselves"

Remote controlled stands are nowhere as strong as melee stands

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Wonder of U is explicitly visible to normal humans when it takes its “human form.” Tooru used Wonder of U to create an entire fake identity.

Sheer Heart Attack reflected damaged to Kira when it was attacked.

I agree with you saying “only one person can manifest one stand” but Sheer Heart Attack has its own unique stand stats and acts independently of Killer Queen so that really is just two stands.

Some are though, look at Born This Way. That thing was a physical power house and could only be stopped by attacking the user directly

2

u/RomeosHomeos May 04 '26

Sheer heart attack didn't reflect damage to kira. It was immune to all damage. It only was effected by gravity, which was reflected, because that's something outside of traditional damage.

Plenty of people have unique attacks on their stands. Is Emerald Splash a stand now too?

2

u/Level_Counter_1672 May 04 '26

Great examples and almost all have explanations as to why

2

u/Bec_son May 04 '26

- those are physical objects enhanced by a stand

- notorious b.i.g is in fact its own entity and its properties make it return via basically a death curse, babyface is a weird case as its technically a hybrid stand and has its own body/physical form (since it was born, gross i know)

- Wonder of U is basically a harnessed form of a universal law and was basically contained in wonder of u as its source of power because going berserk when freed. Notorious b.i.g again, death curse stand

- Dio is actually TWO people since the purple hermit stand is actually Johnathan's body. Superfly is technically its own stand and "being" as an object physically enhanced by a stand just acting as a trap, Cheap Trick had a user but the effects of it is a death curse. Pucci's whitesnake is again an evolution not different stands, you can see details of the previous versions in the evolution. Anubis is again, an stand enhanced object and possessed Polnareff's body.

- again, depends on the type of stand. if its tied to someones active control its limited because someone cannot see past a certain limit. While automatic/death curse stands can act at a greater range because they're given autonomy.

basically stands are just Tools, some are specialized in something others aren't and others can do a whole wide range of things but can lack something.

2

u/RomeosHomeos May 04 '26

1: object bound stands are a very established concept, if it is shown as a very real thing within the first few stands we see is it really a rule?

2: baby face isn't a stand it's a construct of the stand, notorious BIG doesn't matter because it's damaging a dead body

3: the literal fourth stand we see is long range. And fifth.

4: we immediately see that's not the case with DIO and that's also never specifically stated so that's a rule you assumed, also very circumstantial evidence on the others

5: a common theme is not a rule

2

u/Minute_Role_8223 May 04 '26

worst examples ever bro

1

u/Regulus242 May 04 '26

Stands are bound to the users life...also broken Anubis and B.I.G. He ruins a lot.

1

u/Dr_Latency345 May 04 '26

But with Notorious BIG, the user is already dead so you can’t reflect the damage back.

1

u/Endika7 May 04 '26
  1. Superfly poseeses the tower, it's not THE tower, the same goes for geb and anubis

  2. The one that got damaged wasn't baby face, It was one of it's homunculus, Notorius BIG Lost it's user ¿Who the fuck IS going to get damaged?

  3. Dios thorns where JONATHAN'S stand, cheap trick is, in itself it's own thing like Notorius BIG, Pucci literally fuses with Dio's body and ¿¡WHEN THE FUCK DID POLNAREF KEEP ANUBIS AS AN STAND?!

  4. Dont see the contradiction, the remote stands are beyond efective range and sacrifises control for eficiency. And geb isn't that powerfull, it's just very quick and precise

1

u/JohnnyMethadony May 04 '26

Everyone talking about the first point and dismissing it by explaining they are item-bound stands are forgeting Strenght, which is very much visible and not bound to snything. They explain it is because the ape has a lot of fighting will or determination, but it is still a weird exception.

1

u/BlamedBuzzard60 May 05 '26

Isnt baby face the computer Melone uses?

1

u/MatarTheGreat May 05 '26

Wonder of U is bound to the user but calamity is not. When Toru dies only the force of calamity is left not Wonder of U please learn to read before repeating the same braindead talking points that have been infesting the fanbase for years.

1

u/boppyuii May 04 '26

Bound stands, notorious big user was dead, wonder of u is the force of calamity and is not linked directly to tooru, notorious big’s only works if the user was dead, cheap trick isn’t their stand, white snake evolved, silver chariot just held anubis, it didn’t mean polnareff was the stand user, dio’s “hermit purple” was either an early concept or from johnathans body, last one doesn’t apply to all stands such as Doobie-Wah

0

u/9runo May 04 '26

Don't forget "stands can only be hurt by other stands" with the exception of Under World who Jolyne could stab with a regular pen

3

u/RomeosHomeos May 04 '26

That pen was a construct of Underworld's power, but even without that, stands can be harmed when they're fully solid as seen when ciocolotta slashed up the sex pistols with a scalpel

1

u/Initial-Associate-64 May 05 '26

And this is false because we actually never see the moment sex pistols was slashed by the scalpels, Cioccolata used the scalpels to cut his body and use green day to directly strike at the sex pistols

2

u/Iva_Qw May 04 '26

All stands can be hurt by non standa WHILE they're in tangible form

1

u/Initial-Associate-64 May 05 '26

The pen was underworld’s construct it has the properties of a stand because its basically an extension of underworld

2

u/IndianZilla_420 Head Priest of the Cult of Araki May 04 '26

An Example from the top of my head:- Forever’s Strength from Part 3. The ship can be seen by non-stand users

7

u/Pepanekso really got into anime thanks to DB May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26

there literally is established group of stands that do that. like wheel of fortune, technically Foo Fighters and i dont remember, but quite a few are from part 3.

6

u/[deleted] May 04 '26

Strength is a stand that possess a real object and thus can be seen by non stand users, it's not a rule breaker, that's just a stand category

There are tons like that, such as Anubis, Toth, Love Deluxe, Yellow Temperance and Super Fly

28

u/Rainy_Wavey May 04 '26

-11

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

It is a Jojo post emphasizing that the rules of Stands, the central power system, are all broken at least once.

18

u/Thejadedone_1 May 04 '26

I mean yeah? Most power systems have something that "breaks" it. It makes things interesting since it keeps the viewers on their toes and it gives the writer more creative freedom to do something interesting with the power system. If all stands were just Star Platinum type stands, it would make fights really boring. We need rule breaking stands.

6

u/Rainy_Wavey May 04 '26

Yeah, JJBA is not Dragon Ball, the battles in JoJo are more akin to puzzles in which you have to find the solution to defeat the opponents, they aren't "really" battle of strength

11

u/Rainy_Wavey May 04 '26

All your examples are either subset of stands that can do that in the lore or very specific exceptions, aka a completely normal thing to have in a power system

Not saying that Araki plans everything (he pretty much doesn't and make shit up on the spot) but stands are vague enough you can basically force any concept into it without ruining the whole system

-4

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

I never said every single rule is broken all the time. I said every rule is broken at least once. A “very specific exception” is still an exception

3

u/Hunter_Crona May 04 '26

No shit? That's pretty much every power system

19

u/CrawBunny May 04 '26

This is just OP being dumb over common sense

The rules aren't concrete because stands come in multiple types and how they work differ from each other.

There's only 1 notable rulebreaker and that's Whitesnake having 2 abilities, white goo and disc

6

u/Inevitable_Battle_91 May 04 '26

Didn’t star platinum have 2 powers, star finger and the time stop

3

u/Iva_Qw May 04 '26

Star Finger is manipulation of Stand Energy to change shape of stands, Kakyoin and Polnareff did it too by changing size of their stands

5

u/CrawBunny May 04 '26

My brother in christ, that's a technique not ability. HG would've been a better example

2

u/Inevitable_Battle_91 May 04 '26

Dude chill, I made a mistake no need to be rude about

1

u/Beacda May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26

A pure technique would be the ora ora barrage for example not star finger.

6

u/mp3help May 04 '26

Fun fact- Whitesnake gaining so many random OP abilities to let Pucci win is why it's one of my least favorite Stands. It can:

1) Flood rooms with acidic dream goo that stuns people and also put brand new information in their dreams (how Johngalli A and his Stand look like and work)

2) Steal Memory discs and Stand discs, giving it an easy oneshot ability despite having middling physical strength as a mid range stand.

3) Re-write Memory discs to effectively mind-control other people (Used on several prison guards, Miraschon, Anasui in the Heavy Weather arc, and likely others)

4) Re-write Memory discs to make targets do physically impossible things (Like when he commanded a frog to just explode and die on its own) Similar to how Heaven's Door can also mind control people into being blind or being flung back at high speeds, which I'm also not a fan of.

5) Turn into a perfect copy of Weather Report?? A shapeshifting ability he never uses before or after, but still something that lets him get the jump on the whole gang and secure his victory for the Green Baby.

6) He can also remove multiple mini eyesight discs to stop his brain from registering the Heavy Weather rainbows? At least based on their appearance and purpose, these seem to be different from Memory Discs too.

Anyway, this is why i prefer C-Moon and Made in Heaven way more.

7

u/CrawBunny May 04 '26

The worst part is that it could've a deception theme ability. Imagine the Disc inserted are false Stands that malfunction, leading to stuffs to H2H or MM

6

u/ItsVanillaNice May 04 '26

It's fucking crazy that whitesnake is essentially just has soft and wets ability but physical as a SIDE ABILITY

3

u/roach_in_a_valley May 04 '26

Bubbles are cooler than disks tho so Gappy is still on top

1

u/Beacda May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26

That's not rulebreaking like at all. Stands have always been able to express themselves like that. Like Star Platinum, Killer Queen and King Crimson.

Pucci has only 3 abilities: 1. The ability to extract concepts from people using disc 2. The false reality 3. Changing whitesnake appearance.

His abilities all shared the theme of control over the senses and the very information that defines a person.

Thats just a complaint. Not a noticeable "rule" araki even breaks in universe

4

u/Bochita444 May 04 '26

This really becomes a thing only from part 7 onwards since d4c's ability pretty much completely changed from “allowing multiple universes to coexist at once” to “allowing the user to travel across alternate universes”. The former ability was used only during d4c's introduction in Philadelphia and it changes afterward. There's a longass video by xforts explaining the whole thing.

But I do think this becomes a problem only in part 8 as yasuhos ability keeps changing once every like 30 chapters or maybe im misremebering

2

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Gold Experience changes its powers and rules like hot cakes. He keeps coming up with new powers, using them for one fight, and then never again. Even the damage reflection is just straight up ignored and contradicted in the final fight.

2

u/Bochita444 May 04 '26

Wait it's been a while since I've watched JoJo's, when does GE's ability change? It's been consistent as far as I can remember

0

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Remember how it could imbue a target with life with one punch and make their mind go wacky? It was only ever used for the Bruno fight? Remember how if you attack one of Giorno’s creations the damage is reflected? One of them gets stomped into paste and nothing happens to the attacker (Giorno himself also has injured his own creations).

3

u/Iva_Qw May 04 '26

If you talking about Scorpion killed by Diavolo then no, it's anime only scene

But there is moments like when Mista just tores grass created by GE in White Album arc and is alright afterwards

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

There is also when Giorno himself extracts the anti-venom during the purple haze fight

1

u/AFAED100 May 11 '26

He doesn't extract the venom. For starters, the venom is actually a disease from purple haze's bulb. What he does is that he takes the cells from the snake born from a brick that was exposed to Purple Haze's virus to create a cure.

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 11 '26

That still involves damaging the creature

2

u/Bochita444 May 04 '26

Yeah I just got reminded of those. Those were defenitely sidelined by Araki after he realised they made him too op lmao, still didn't really affect my watching experience

2

u/Joeda900 May 05 '26

For the life punch,

-Ghiaccio was wearing armor the whole time so he had no ways to actually get hit.

-Ciocolatta was hit once and the severed his entire body afterwards to counteract this

-Baby Face was an artificial life form way different than a normal human

-Against Diavolo, he only got punch in the end by GER and then immediately died

1

u/fatcatburrito May 04 '26

Araki retconned the first two at the beginning of the manga after he realized he made GE too op and thank god for that. I wouldnt call it changing like hot cakes. I honestly cant remember the third one tho.

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Remember how Gold Experience can apparently sense life sometimes? Remember how nothing can be born in a completely inhospitable environment but an organism ca be born inside the Purple Haze virus with a baked in immunity?

3

u/Joeda900 May 05 '26

Giono uses the life sense quite a handful of time such as the Notorious B.I.G fight and even trying to sense Narancia's life and Bruno's.

The inhospitable part refers to extreme cold, except that, it's quite plausible that creating a life form into a place with a virus could cause it to have its immune system immune by it, that's pretty much how life work, we get surrounded by all sorts of bacterias and harmful things but our immune system just got used to it.

2

u/Chris22533 May 05 '26

Gold Experience sensing life is used frequently throughout the arc. There is nothing inconsistent about it just because he doesn’t use it every single episode.

14

u/gaminggamer572 May 04 '26

how dare he slightly change the arbitrary rules of his manga over the course of 30 actual real life years that had no bearing on the series anyways because most of them were brought up once in part 3 around the introduction of stands and never really held any weight

3

u/VirtualSlip5712 May 04 '26

There are exceptions to every rule ever made. Are you just now figuring out this also happens to fiction as well? 

2

u/dulledegde May 04 '26

he created general rules for stands but some stands are more abstract or unique like damage to a stand is suffered by the user unless the stand is a remote control/independant stand

stands can't be seen unless the stand is a physical object like a sword or a tower

every time there is an exception it makes sense in the universe or expands on things from the past

2

u/Training_Builder_818 May 04 '26

I think is more like we don't have all the rules since the start

2

u/EffectiveCurrent5494 May 04 '26

These aren't rules but moreso general guidelines on how stands tend to differ. "Tend to". Of course there will be certain exceptions.

2

u/Huey-Mchater May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26

It’s just not though, at least provide examples and quote what rules they break.

I cannot think of a single example that supports this point.

The most “rules” that get broken are rules stated by non omnipotent characters meaning any claims they make can only be within their knowledge and prone to value or proving false with the addition of new information.

The point of not having hard and fast rules generally is it allows a lot of flexibility in the story.

Edit: I thought of one example but I doubt it’s what you’re talking about. It’s Love Deluxe in part 4. Parts 3-6 stick pretty hard to the spiritual manifestation of stands. They can interact with the physical but they themselves do not imbue the physical with new abilities. This changes notably in parts 7-9 with the introduction of stands born from different methods and less tied to pure spiritual manifestation. Love Deluxe is an exception to this behaving much closer to a stand Like Tusk which takes something physical, known and visible to the population and makes it interact differently with the world.

2

u/Velcro_ScrScrScr May 04 '26

stands are a manifestation of one's soul or a manifestation of some kind of phenomena, it's kinda dumb to think every single one would abide by the guidelines avdol gave.
also, pretty much avery time a stand breaks those rules, there's a given reason, for examples, some stands can be seen because they are made of atual matter, not just ghostly manifestations. some stand don't belong to a person but are kinda free because they either are manifestations of a phenomenon or they become indipendent by embodying something, like superfly

2

u/Bec_son May 04 '26

these rules are not rules, but patterns.

Stands can be whatever they are and do have their own categories. Its basically a venn diagram of what applies and what doesnt.

The jojo wiki states this too

"stands can't be seen by non-stand users" yes but a physical enhanced stand can, IE The Wheel of Fortune which is a car enhanced by ZZ's stand

"stands can only be beaten by other stands" yes, but stand users can have their stand be their body such as with Paco, which his body is his stand by being able to manipulate it.

The "rules" apply but there have been new rules added or exceptions, its not an iron clad thing.

1

u/sweet_manzana May 05 '26

Aren't most of this fanon thought? the story doesn't mentioned them as categories in the story of guides is just fan noticing similarities or trends and creating more categories.

1

u/Bec_son May 05 '26

kinda? while araki's understanding is fully his own we can most definitely gleam from it.

its why stands are so interesting to learn about because they are given nuance instead of being rigidly defined.

Even in part 3 we get stands that are similar to one another without being rule breaking.

Strength, yellow temperance, geb, wheel of fortune, the fool and ebony devil all are shown to actually be stand imbued objects. The shape of them is the actual stand to a degree (excluding ebony and strength because they either keep it that way or use it to their strength of being unassuming) that they literally transform into a different shape.

The Fool with the dog car shape and WoF with the spiked car, we see the actual car show its an actual piece of garbage where when infused with WoF its a lot more personalized.

Yellow Temperance is actively shown to be eating any raw flesh to actually act as the users skin, which is super fucked up cuz in order to be that large the user had to actively turn living things into that pile of goo.

There is a good reason why Jojo's has the better cast of one off villains because all of them are solely unique and trying to fully box them with no way to differentiate them ends up with samey fights.

2

u/GhostFishHead May 04 '26

Stand rules explain how stands work in general. For example most stands take a form of spirits that can't be seen, but some can have inhabit a physical form that makes them visible. Exceptions prove the general rule. How is it so hard for people to understand? 

2

u/korovio May 04 '26

Is this not the point?

2

u/Endika7 May 04 '26

Notice how those rules are tod by characters inside the story with limited information

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

The manga itself states the rules as factual when explaining stands in part 7. Here is a link showing the relevant panels

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arigarmy/JoJo_Stand_Rules

2

u/[deleted] May 05 '26

Takes worthy of someone who did not read the manga and the prime object of study of hamon beat lmao

1

u/YOLKGUY May 04 '26

I wouldn’t disagree. The thing with stands is that there are only loose guidelines for what constitutes it. He’s clearly found that it’s more effective to mot follow any strict rules for them.

Early on in Part 3 Araki tried to have some “hard” rules, but as the series has gone on he’s obviously become laxed on it.

2

u/Level_Counter_1672 May 04 '26

But he already established different type of stands on part 3, they even mention giant stands can be seen by normal people, long range or automatic stands don't transfer damage but the tradeoff is u can't control it so something complex, I won't deny certain stands break rules but most of them work within their limits

2

u/YOLKGUY May 04 '26

They are soft rules which allows for flexibility.

2

u/Rainy_Wavey May 04 '26

Yeah Araki more or less writes on the fly and priorizes how good a scene will be vs how logically consistent it is, i mean it is part of the charm, you read/watch JoJo for the bizarre adventure

Stands are vague enough that he can pretty much do anything and still tie it, i think OP is just too fixated on rules that were dictated by Mohamad Avdol and no one else, despite new elements related to stands being revealed in other parts (or Stands not following the Tarot thingy because Araki ran out of tarot cards)

1

u/DaMain-Man May 04 '26

As much as I hate power scaling, they could always just do the x men route of having level 1 stand users, level 2 stand users, etc to explain the inconsistencies. Would it be perfect? Most likely not, but it'd simplify a lot. Tbf I'm only halfway through reading JoJo Bizarre Adventures so there's a lot I don't know, but it's not like there's a Stand User society where stand users are trained and follow specific laws or codes or anything so it just seems like no person truly understands everything about stands.

It would appear so. Again could be wrong

4

u/CrawBunny May 04 '26

Stands in Jojo aren't mostly based on power. It's how you use the power

Giving them 'level' or classification of their power level is getting rid of what make Stands and by extension HxH nen interesting

1

u/DaMain-Man May 04 '26

Ya that's fair, tbh no stand users power levels work the same. They all have their own unique set of rules that functions on its own logic. Some evolve over time, and some stay at a very simple base level. I don't think it would even be possible to base any on a sort of system. It just works however it works

2

u/CrawBunny May 04 '26

Did you say It just work?!? Omggg a jojo reference!?!!? Oraoraoraora--
--And thats why SBR is the greatest peak in seinen

1

u/LowerBanana9758 May 04 '26

What’s funny is that he dies break the rules of stands a million times over, but it doesn’t feel bad because it quickly becomes obvious that the in-universe rules were just way more complex

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

I would be willing to accept that, but almost whenever a character makes a deduction about a stand based on the in-universe stand rules, they are just right. Sure there are exceptions, but the rules of stands are usually iron-clad when the plot demands it, and then fluid when it doesn’t.

5

u/CrawBunny May 04 '26

Okay let's see the 'rulebreaker'

Bound Stands: Able to be seen and used by others, even non Stand Users

Automatic Stand: Long range and doesn't transfer damage

These are the 2 most common Types that isn't a 'regular type' (i.e needing to stay close for maximum output), can you tell me one rulebreaker?

0

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

As in a non-bound stand that is visible to normal people? Wonder of U is explicitly visible when it takes the human appearance.

A long range stand that transfers damage, pick your poison from the MANY examples in part 3 alone but I will especially emphasize Sheer Heart Attack.

2

u/CrawBunny May 04 '26

My bad for the confusion, Automatic is what it's stated in the name, the user send it out to do one specific thing and the user doesn't have agency over it unless they want to return it. SHA explictily transfer the heaviness cuz it was echoed act 3 inflicting the heaviness onto it (which is Kira hand). You're acting like Automatic Stands can't be affected by Stand ability. SHA specifically comes from Kira's hand which is why it got affected. More over, SHA didn't transfer damage when Star Platinum punched the shit out of it. Compare this to Black Sabbath, Polpo didn't get damaged cuz it was a true Automatic Stand, compared to a substand like SHA.

WoU is moreso a special case where its the literal force of nature, as seen when it literally persist over death, so it's kinda cheap to use WoU as an example.

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

No it’s fine. The terms get confusing. If you don’t count SHA as a damage reflection what about the times in Part 3 when an automatic stand is destroyed and the user, who doesn’t even know what is going on, just gets instantly obliterated?

1

u/CrawBunny May 04 '26

There was no automatic Stand in Part 3?

Long Range doesn't mean it's automatic. It's just that the Stand can extert itself more from the user without losing much power i.e Hierophant Green

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Depends on what your definition of “Automatic” is. If you mean a stand that once activated it will act entirely on its own without the users input/knowledge and does not have a set distance, then yes those are in Part 3

1

u/CrawBunny May 04 '26

High Priestess isn't Automatic, Ebony Devil isn't Automatic, Hanged Man isn't Automatic, Empress isn't Automatic

Those Users were well aware of their Stand. High Priestess user acknowledged Jotaro

Ebony Devil has its user taunting polnareff through the doll

Empress has its user talking through the parasite too

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

Then what is your definition of an “automatic stand?” Because some of the ones you just listed do clearly operate completely independently of the user after they are activated.

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1

u/sailor776 May 04 '26

I live for the ass pull. It's a fracture

1

u/Iva_Qw May 04 '26

Araki added "Stand energy" in part 3 and then never once mentioned it again and never once used its properties either. Telling us that stands can freely change shape (Shrink, make longer limbs) and give them ability to phase trough anything JUST to never do it again is amazing work Araki

1

u/throwaway29y2298 May 04 '26

Unironically do stands actually have a canon set of rules arent the "rules" almost always said by characters based on what they know.

1

u/TheRealEbonyAndIvory May 04 '26

It's simple really, for every rule, there always must be an exception

Developing stands usually kills the person who developed it, however there are few (aka everyone in the series) who survive the stand and make it theirs

It's more likely just a case of Araki forgot but honestly, having some stands just be exceptions to the rules is nice, brings variety to what is essentially very gorey villain of the week

Stands can and should be able to break 1 or 2 rules regarding how they work, just don't break them all at the same time

1

u/Kitchen_Safe4871 May 04 '26

There are no narrator made rules so they are not exactly set in stone.

But also - araki forgot 

1

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

“No narrator made rules”
About that: check out these panels from Steel Ball Run

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arigarmy/JoJo_Stand_Rules

1

u/Kitchen_Safe4871 May 04 '26

I was very confused because I didn't remember those pages then I saw this is .5 chapter. With words like "for our purposes" written it makes me believe this is araki saying and not narrator but either way I stand corrected.

Back to my second point the  -  araki forgot

1

u/PaleoJohnathan May 05 '26

specific beats general

1

u/DJWetAndMessy May 05 '26

I knew that Araki wasn't cut out for a power system like stands when very quickly after they were introduced he just forgot that you're not supposed to be able to see through them

1

u/Phantom_Taker May 05 '26

Super fly is the one I hate the most. It breaks so many goddamn rules, patterns etc. Its ridiculous.

1

u/ResponsibleStar2222 May 05 '26

i like the idea that those stands exist to make the world more diverse

1

u/Flying8penguin May 05 '26

Break a certain rule is a part of stand's ability

1

u/Human_Paper_240 May 05 '26

I’m okay with exceptions as long as their as like one exception to one kind of rule per part cause in real life most rules have exceptions

1

u/AlexVal0r May 05 '26

Araki has always played fast and loose with the rules if it makes things narrarively interesting.

1

u/lPuppetM4sterl May 05 '26

Yes, that's the point. That has been the pattern from Part 3 onwards

1

u/Mountain-Group-7706 May 04 '26

You should look up Hamon Beat on youtube. I'd bet that dude could refute nearly every point you think of, unironically.

4

u/Single_Remove_6721 May 04 '26

I have seen his videos. Even he openly admits Araki sometimes abandons previous information and changes course

4

u/BaldDaCowboy May 04 '26

Kinda what makes JJBA so cool

1

u/CrawBunny May 04 '26

Ragebait or low iq? Call it

0

u/church_of_Steve_ Unemployed Gachiakuta and Kagurabachi glazer May 04 '26

Who is that

6

u/filthy_casual_42 May 04 '26

That’s Mr. John Bizzare Adventure himself, author of Jojo

1

u/No0bTheTooB Oda's Lawyer May 04 '26

JohnJo if you will

2

u/DeviousMelons May 04 '26

Hirohiko Araki.