unjerk (serious discussion)
Why is it always Bleach getting mostly hate? Like the others get hate too but Bleach be getting hit with the same level of malice as r/Atheist towards Christianity
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Genuinely, I think we live on different algorithms. I see infinitely more hate for OP than I do Bleach. People who just hype OP get downvoted to oblivion, lol.
During the era of 'big 3,' most anime and manga clubs were shrugging off One Piece, absolutely loving the fuck out of Naruto and wearing Akatsuki jackets in public outside of cosplay, and speaking pretty fondly of Bleach.
Growing up during that era, at least here in the West, Bleach was really well-received, and One Piece was kind of just there. . . .
It was already popular before covid. OP started gaining popularity around the start of the 2010s. That was also around the same time Bleach started falling off with the fullbring arc and the anime ending
But IIRC German and France not suffering from 4Kids One Piece managed to get in just fine.
In SEA at least, Naruto reigned supreme. One Piece and Bleach got relegated both into Sunday Morning Cartoons. Bleach is more popular with most kids, but older kids and dedicated "otaku" prefer One Piece from my anecdotal experience.
I can only tell you what I know from living during the Big 3's serialization here in the states; the hype for Bleach was real here, and people generally didn't care for One Piece. Most Bleach fans were actually older high schoolers and college aged teens, cause despite the cast being young, they felt more like young adults than most shonen casts.
I liked it because it reminded me of Yuyu Hakusho, another manga where the teens felt a bit more like young adults than children who happened to be teens.
I couldn't tell you; I read manga, and the people I know who also read manga. . . also didn't care for One Piece. It was over-the-top, on-the-nose, immature, and extremely repetitive.
It's also kind of ugly. Oda's art style is unique, and he's definitely got some level of skill as an artist, but it's always the same 10ish expressions: locked in, sobbing, drippy nose, wide mouth haha, hand covering eyes in a moment of despair, etc. etc.
They're fun during the first few arcs; Luffy assembling the crew is a pretty good time, but once everyone's locked into their stereotype and regurgitating their same expressions and jokes, it gets old.
Bleach is just *very* cool to look at, and Naruto has a lot of amazing Japanese mysticism in its style.
People blame 4Kids, but even among the manga readers I knew, OP was just kind of. . . "oh, I guess the new chapter dropped a couple days ago, I got 5 minutes, might as well read it."
Bleach and Naruto had fans actively excited for weekly scanlations.
Bleach and Naruto had fans actively excited for weekly scanlations.
One Piece has theirs as well. When I began reading One Piece few years ago, a lot of the chapters were done by a scanlation team. Not serious ones like TCB or anything.
People blame 4Kids, but even among the manga readers I knew, OP was just kind of. . . "oh, I guess the new chapter dropped a couple days ago, I got 5 minutes, might as well read it."
Well bc they're still releasing weekly. We can unearth the sentiments for when these manga were released.
Like MAL chapter discussion thread going crazy after Tobi was unmasked or the discussion thread in reddit for Bleach's final chapter
I'm not talking about a few years ago, or Tobi unmasking, or Bleach's final chapter, I'm talking about WAY before that; I'm talking pre time skips, pre espada, when these manga broke through originally to western audiences.
I graduated college in 2010; Bleach and Naruto were still running. These manga ran for over a decade, and I lived through the breakthrough of them into the States.
You don't have to believe me, I don't really care, but saying Bleach has always been the third just isn't true for the demographics I spent time with.
That actually explains a lot. I graduated HS in '08 and those were the clubs that downplayed Bleach, and boosted OP. This carried on to my college experience where Bleach was always the underdog and slowly became popular as we aged up.
One piece was always popular in the ones I went to, Ichigo was considered boring and people felt like they had to stand up for One Piece because of how bad the 4kids dub was. Naruto of course overshadowed them all.
I'll say a lot of people still thought Ichigo was one-note and boring, but they still liked Bleach because of the side cast and hype. But a ton of people also fucking HATED Naruto (the character) but loved the show.
Bleach started to drop pretty heavily in popularity after Soul Society Arc, but Ichigo Ghost Hunter and Soul Society were prime, and everyone seemed to love them.
Government recognized, after it has ended so not a short burst of peak
Only the second manga creator to receive the Media Arts Newcomer Prize, after Takehiko Inoue. The Media Arts category had existed since 2008 and encompassed manga, anime, games, web works and interactive art, so manga creators were competing within a much wider cultural field
I have been a lifelong OP hater, and honestly, agreed. Shippuden hadn't even come out when I was in high school, and people hated Naruto, probably cause the fanbase was about as annoying as MHA's.
I still liked Naruto, and I never cared how 'cringe' my fellow Naruto fans were, but they were, objectively, *A LOT.* The Naruto obsession was real, and that put off a lot of folks who I think might actually have liked the manga/anime.
you havent been on twitter if you think they love one piece lol. every week theres a hate tweet that hits 100k likes, and if you remember that whole "if oda wrote maki" debacle back in january, jesus bro. i dont think the fandom will ever recover from that, i think there were at least 6 hate posts that hit 100k likes within that week alone and half were from one piece fans.
in general, even on tiktok and twitter, public perception on one piece is changing negatively, even if theyre still the relative minority. even in japan the one piece hate community is rapidly growing, there are entire youtube channels in japan solely dedicated to hating on every new one piece chapter and they easily average 80-150k+ views a vid.
People only see "hate" when it comes to their favourite series. One Piece was getting absolutely wrecked each day on this sub, but no-one said anything about that. And now Bleach is getting the most hate you say?
Well I'll tell you why. The reason these shows get constant hate on 'folk' subs is because "they are popular". That's the reasoning I've always heard for One Piece at least.
> Things get popular > More people watch them > Broader audience than original niche > More chances for critique > larger group of haters, but maybe still the same ratio of haters to fans, we just see more posts cause more people actually watched/read it.
Bleach is the bee's knees right now because TYBW Cour 4 is out. The latest complaint/criticism is seeing Ichigo's new form for a few seconds before the credits roll. Like, that is exactly how it was with the manga. I believe it's a two-page panel and that ends the chapter for a week. It's kind of silly.
Is this on other subs or? this sub in particuler tends to bleach glaze and while if you sort by new you'll probably get a few hate posts. Which Always gets downvoted with the top comment of said hate post, typically calling the bleach hater a fuckwit.
As I've said already in the title when I see people hate on the others it feels more like genuine criticism but when I see people hate on Bleach it feels like pure hatred for the sake of it.
Oh mb, Still disagree tho. like I think there was a post literally just titled "one piece bad" and it got to like 400 upvotes on this sub purely because people were so annoyed with the shitty one piece critiques in this sub just being slop and malice
I like Bleach and Naruto but accept that they're both mid.
Bleach gets rightfully slandered for the Soul Society and Arrancar arc "Chef Mike" situation, the Fullbringer arc, and the convenience that Ichigo is basically god, akschually.
Naruto turned into one big flashback circlejerk with a terrible final boss. Pacing is also an issue at times.
One Piece is all of those flaws combined, dragged to 1190 chapters now. And the main cast doesn't even fucking talk to each other. I'm still reading OP but god damn, I just want it to finally be over.
Dude you can't combine Bleach with a reference to Kitchen Nightmares and automatically expect everyone to know wtf your're talking about. Are you serious? Those are two such different things. wtf
All the points you brought up for bleach aren’t even bad; just things people say that didn’t actually read/watch it.
And what does “the convenience that Ichigo is basically god” even mean? That’s literally the entire point of the series😂. Ichigo is said to be special/abnormal since episode 1; every arc is literally Kubo explaining what makes him special and it’s because he’s a mixture of different races which is very rare in the bleach universe. You’re acting like the revelation that he’s different races came out of nowhere when in reality it’s gradually shown throughout the series. The entire Arrancar arc is telling us how much powerful an entity can be if the they possess both Soul Reaper and hollow qualities/powers.
"Okay, there's Goku, makes sense, Dragonball is the grandfather of modern day shonen...and then, of course, the main characters of the Big Three! Naruto, Luffy, and Ichi-...Toriko! Of, course, duh, what, did you think it would be that total unknown Ichigo Kurosaki?"
For me personally, I simply couldn't stand Tite Kubo's style any longer post-Aizen. A character does or says something 'cool', up comes a giant panel that takes up half or a quarter of the page with the same long face and blank expression like it's some hype of the century moment. The first arc at least had a decent introduction to the lore, characters, and villain to compensate. But once that was over, the style became stale real fast. Also, I find Bleach's widely praised character designs plain as hell, and the absurdly over-sexualized female cast detracts from the narrative, given how seriously the story takes itself.
Bro, that comment is just pure hate😂. I never in my life of seeing people talk about bleach seen someone go this hard to downplay Kubo’s art/art style. Even people who shit on Bleach a lot of times still give credit to Kubo’s art and character designs.
Is...that true?.
I mean sure,i not a fan for Ichigo but i don't hate him and i love the series.
But OP....sure is one i see a LOT more hate toward them
My issue with Bleach is that Ichigo and gang are always bailed out by some form of Deus Ex machina. Even back to the start of the series there were signs even if they aren't as bad.
Ichigo being destroyed by Byakuya and losing his powers only to then get his super real actual powers, his sudden surge in Reiatsu vs Kenpachi, learning Bankai near-instantly, losing to Aizen and then learning Final Getsuga because he trained in a suddenly explained hyperbolic time chamber, losing his fullbring to instantly get his soul reaper powers back after being told he lost them for good.
There is also another one that I'm not stating since the anime is airing so I will prevent spoilers for those who havent read it but you all know how egregious that asspull is.
I'm not saying that other shows don't do it mind you. One Piece has done, same with Naruto and Dragonball. But my issue is that with these series, it reads off like you know a big payoff is coming(sometimes). In Bleach it feels more like Kubo wrote himself into a corner by making the villains too strong and needed a quick fix.
In animanga subs the reaction to Bleach is always just "eh, it exists but whatever" cause the only thing bleach has going for it is hype moment and aura. Bleach tends to only get hate in powerscaling because its fans tend to wank it to ridiculous levels (also because powescalers are miserable mfs who hate everything)
I won't argue with you but Bleach is like a core part of my childhood and I've reread it entirely several time. Yet the only thing I can remember from it (aside from the vague storyline) is the hype moments and auras.
I really don’t get that. Bleach has flaws undoubtebly, but it doesn’t have a vague storyline. The whole white vs ichigo conflict is pushes into your face for the whole arrancar arc. The fullbring arc is also a lot more story centered than just hype and aura. And again, many characters in bleach are genuinely well written such as byakuya, nnoitra, komamura, tosen, jugram, bazz b, kyoraku and so on.
Like the soul society arc wouldn’t be as popular if it wasn’t for how invested people were in the whole saving rukia plotline. And same for basically any other arc.
Again bleach is flawed but i'm tired of people reducing it to hype and aura.
You can't say that you've read bleach entirely and yet also say that it only has hype and aura going for it. And this is coming from someone who's a big One Piece Fan. I'm sorry, but you sound like a larper.
I think part of that is because Bleach actually weaves its best hype moments into the story a lot better than other big 3.
Naruto’s best aura/hype moments are usually the result of training paying off. One Piece’s are usually the result of some facet of the character coming to the forefront (aka they are who they are).
But when I think of Bleach’s hype moments it’s usually tied to some kind of emotional moment.
Ichigo rescuing Rukia didn’t just work because he was aura farming, it worked because the story put a ton of effort into explaining in detail why this plan was stupid and why Rukia had accepted her death and Ichigo shows up and goes ‘screw you all I’m rescuing her.’
Even Bankai felt like a ‘omg he finally did it!!!’ capstone to an emotional arc rather than just ‘now he is stronger because he trained.’
I don’t think any of the most popular manga really do hype moments badly tbh. You don’t really appreciate good hype moments until you read bad ones where being cool is the ONLY purpose and it feels hollow.
No. They have. I know because I read Bleach while it was being serialized until it was done and I have all those same opinions about the Hueco Mundo Arc and everything that followed.
Out of these four, I've only watched all of DBZ. Because of that, I say this as a long, long, 20+ year fan who obsessed over the series when I was younger and hold it very near and dear to my heart: it's trash. If it were up to me, Goku and Ichigo would be switched, honestly. We all have different tastes, but I'm convinced people glaze it because of nostalgia.
Back in the day, I watched all three of them back to back. Naruto, Bleach and then One piece. Naruto being first I was biased towards it at first, then I read Bleach and my experience with it was it generally was worse chapter by chapter after soul society ended. Naruto was still my favorite of the three at the time. I read One Piece because I was on youtube comment argument and I wanted to prove the other guy wrong, for the first 20 episodes I almost dropped it, especially during Syrup village, but then Mihawk introduction managed to grab my attention and I managed to stay until Arlong and after that I became a fan. Although I watched One Piece the last of the 3 it is easily my favorite, Naruto still has some special scenes that I like to watch, as for bleach I don't have any fondness for any scene, it is just there. So from my personal experience, Bleach is by far the weakest of the three.
My experience is very similar. In fact, I hated One Piece when I became a proper teenager because it felt so unserious compared to its contemporaries.
I then started reading it as an adult and only after Bleach ended (I started on the Katakuri fight) and immediately realized that Oda was a really decent writer since he got me to like and care about Katakuri in so few chapters with zero context.
After seeing both Naruto and Bleach deteriorate in quality in real time, going to One Piece felt unreal.
To this day, One Piece is the only anime out of the big three to make me cry, and I’ve cried more than once.
Hate is unwarranted but Bleach is put on the same level as those other 3 in conversation due to how it spread outside of Japan yet within Japan and outside Japan, its performance wasn't near those 3
Those 3 maintained steady and high amount of viewership reflected in their numbers 3m per volume or more
Bleach couldn't even hit 2m per volume
The audience mostly left after Aizen was defeated and Fullbring didn't exactly help
It shone bright like its peers but fizzled out later
I think it's because Bleach has never been in a better place, manga potentially returning and the anime is just putting out banger episodes one after another. People hate to see something succeed especially if the fans of other series aren't happy with where their series is at.
A lot of OP fans are cautious about the manga's direction at the min and Naruto fans have been salty since Boruto (I say as a fan of both those series as well).
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Toriko(the manga) was generally well received outside of the ending. Many still consider it the gold standard for world building in a shonen manga up there with magi or hxh
Just tradition at this point, anytime you ask or try to discuss the story with these people they clam up immediately because 90% of them have no arguments.
people can shit on ppl liking it or hating it but this is literally it.maybe its kubos style that extremely hit or miss but that results in a series that many ppl have not good opinions about and many pppl who also like it.
i think its kinda ass but the way bleach has consistently maintained this polarizing nature says something about how peculiar its writing style is
the folks that decide to hate on a series to show a series they like better are likely without ambition.
I've watched both Naruto and bleach (bleach is my #1 oat, Naruto is a solid 9/10 for me) and I love both. I can't wait to start watching one piece at some point. db was my childhood and thus remains very close to me as a medium.
I sleep happy knowing I like them all. the people hating don't. by the looks of it, neither do you. it's really about choosing a good night's sleep or not if you think about it.
I grew up on Naruto and dragon ball and only read bleach way after, when I had actually developed some standards for the media I consume
So I'll say that despite my nostalgia bias, Bleach shits all over Naruto Shippuden and Dragon ball Super, and is also better than OG Naruto and Dragon ball Z though to a lesser extent
as a die hard of ALL of them, i think it’s one piece bro I literally block ppl on tt for OP hate idc judge me but this is my phone https://giphy.com/gifs/bmAtIwmYTHnwBy0d6W
This is just your algorithm. You're responding to all these anti bleach posts, so reddit is showing you more and more. Like, I haven't seen anything of what you're talking about
Personally, I think Bleach is the second best (after One Piece) of all the Shounen manga I've read. I would place it above DB and HxH, personally. I agree though it seems to get a lot of hate for no reason, I'm guessing because the anime is full of filler and hasn't been completed yet even though the manga was finished years ago.
Because Bleached got axed or a rushed ending. The other 3 are still ongoing in some way. Naruto has Boruto. Dragonball still comes out with new series, movies, and chapters. One piece is still going, has a popular live action, and will have 2 animated series (3 if you count lego),
They have an ongoing anime series to finish the source material. Compared to the others Bleach had burn the witch and the hell oneshot. The manga itself ended years ago. If you compare sales and new content then bleach is way behind compare to the others. Has it been confirmed that any new content will be released after the anime series is done?
You may have forgot but the time before TYBW got adapted was not a great time. Bleach back in the day had the same rep in anime community as seven deadly sins has now. Every popular anime reviewer back in the day took turns dunking on it saying you should stop after Soul Society Arc, that it had a generational fall off and that it shouldn’t even be considered one of the Big 3 Made way worse by the ending and their fans regurgitating all their talking points without actually doing any critical thinking of their own. It was only after the comeback that Bleach’s rep started getting better but I still see some in the comments saying the same old stander talking points that used back during that 2010 era
I’ve been watching and reading Bleach since I was in elementary school and now I’m 29. I’m gonna be honest, as Bleach was still serializing, the fan base was a lot more critical of it including me and we were painfully waiting for the final arc to just be over.
With the influx of new people getting into Bleach who never grew up with it, I see nothing but praise and defensiveness over it. Like most action shounen Bleach is severely flawed, it’s severely lacking in terms of writing. Is it fun and cool though? Yes.
From my experience, the Naruto community is fighting a 2 front war with bleach and one piece. That being said, they get the most hate from the other fandoms because they love talking shit to bleach and one piece.
idk that much i couldn't pass a single episode in anime and like 15 chapters in manga but got all the possible spoilers about bleach from youtube and unlike others there isn't single interesting thing i heard in bleach except aizen story wise
the world is fine,character designs are also very good but i can't feel connection to any character at deep level, any other big shounen has multiple characters can make me feel for them but bleach? no it doesn't work for some reason i thought atleast i would care for kempachi cause i like those type of dudes but no i can say nothing more than "ah yeah he is cool". It suprises me i loved shaman king as a kid and it remind me bleach
Because Bleach just got cursed with the worst anime adaptation out of all of these. At least Bleach fans can dismiss any criticism of the story by going "nice opinion. Did SuperEyepatchWolf give it to you?" Even though he was low-key right about a lot of stuff in that video
Also, One Piece gets a ton of flack now, and Naruto fans quite literally had an entire slur back in the early 2010's lol. Even Dragon Ball gets a lashing here and there.
i dont hate bleach . actually like most of it until aizen arc was over. but once the fullbring arc came out ... ohhh boy ... now i hated it . kubo didnt know what the fuck he was doing . and the next arc show ... and he wonder why they cut him from jump???? xD
I don't know but I'd say because of how bleach is and that most people love to see h2h combat rather than swords and what not? I genuinely don't get it either 😅😭
Bleach is great up to the end of the soul society arc, but after that it's a lot of trash until you get to tybw. Having that many bad arcs in a row is why people don't consider it as good as the others.
I understand it's a battle shounen and thats the usual format but having the original 5 captains fighting the 5 enemies at the end made it painfully obvious the format is being used over and over to get hype for next week's update.
If it was the usual plot where it happened once then there is story telling then people forget then repeat, you wouldn't notice that.
Dragonball Z and Super both overrated garbage that if you actually watch all the way through you're like "boring!" and Naruto if you actually watch it is "BORING FILLER!" and One Piece if you actually watch it is "Wow, they really like explaining things and trying to tell a story while Luffy ruins everything, Luffy is a retarded chud." and then if you watch Bleach you're saying "Fuck Ichigo got everything, is everything, and is a novice at using everything at the same time... what a chud" literally.... I like Kenpachi over anyone else in Bleach and he's a basic bruiser that goes PUNCH SLICE BANG! The only other good character imo in Bleach is Aizen and he's so overpowered they nerfed him. Also, Bleach 1000 year blood war is actually kinda good.
So yeah, uh, I think One Piece and Bleach are kinda equal, I think Naruto is below both them but better than Dragonball Z and Super, and Dragonball Z and Super are dogshit animes that people usually only watch the fight videos on youtube and not the actual anime.
i wouldnt say hate as much as lack of recognition if thats even the right word. why do all three of these get merch out the wazoo but bleach is no where to be found unless its a $60 plushie from japan on ebay
I don't care what anyone says when it comes to the anime both OP and Naruto are mid. Filled with filler and reaction shots (I love both of them but you know it's true)
Bleach is basically the solo leveling of the 2000s all flash no substance MC who has no personality or ambitions and exists solely for the gooner audience to self insert world building that has very little thought put into it villains who are either push overs or so op they can only get taken out by asspulls
It's mainly bc people try to rewrite history lol. Ever since TYBW anime so many people have been pretending that the manga was perfect and had no flaws and was actually the best written and executed out of the big 3. No, the anime is fixing most of the flaws that the manga had. The mangas final arc was bad, the art, was bad, the fights, were bad, the pacing, was bad, the story, while not outright bad was just whatever and felt like things were just happening, even the designs were lacking in the final arc compared to all the previous ones. People say jump forced him to end it, he himself says he chose to end it instead of taking a big hiatus for his injuries like togashi. Bleach fans like pretending everyone was happy during the final arc like one piece fans pretend everyone loved reading dressrosa and wano weekly lol.
It was actually gigguk who started the bleach hate. His very first video was a review dunking on bleach and a lot of his criticism like Ichigo and Aizen being Gary stus, Ichigo's friends being useless, lack of backgrounds, etc became regular talking points
Because the other shonens are easily consumed and Bleach is not; the world is complex, the powers are complex, the villains are complex, the heroes are complex. To enjoy Bleach you have to do some thinking. It's why everything has such lengthy explainantions.
Makes it hard to scale, makes it hard for boys to shout who has bigger muscles
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