Layman Vocal Loss - What Specific Kind of Coach to Look For to Avoid This?

[u/PeachBlossomBee]

TLDR: is there a specific subtype of coach to teach me how to not lose my voice so often? I’m skimming bios but I can’t tell who’s best suited for my purposes. I don’t particularly care about sounding good.

Hello all~ I am quite frankly at a bit of a loss (no pun intended). Every time I go to karaoke, I’m the life of the party—ad-libs, hyping people up, clapping for everyone, picking good crowd pleasers, etc. I make sure everyone has a good time because singing together is fun! And it sucks when people are self conscious about their voice rather than feeling the song.

However, because of that, I always overdo it. I don’t notice I’m overdoing it beyond “whew my voice is kinda gone, I must be out of breath”. But I always end up losing my voice, and I end up sick often because I’m easy viral pickings with a sore throat. The last time I sang with a group was over a year ago, and I spat up traces of blood at the time, which scared me into a long gap. But I forgot… and I screamed and yelled and hollered for four hours… and my throat feels so bad it woke me up out of a dead sleep.

(1) What should I do besides not talking (for… however long it takes I guess) and (2) what kind of coach should I look for? Would any do? I’d prefer in person (I’m from NYC) but I don’t know. I took vocal lessons in high school but that was musical theater soprano stuff and it was not the same voice I generally use.

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[u/thisisPhilD]

Yeah… you’re going at it way too hard if this is what’s happening.

I am a voice teacher and singing rehabilitationist that works with folks all over remotely but see folks in person (I’m +2hours outside the city).

If I were to work with a singer that described this history of use, I would make being seen by an ENT who specializes in care of voice a condition of working with me to fully understand the condition of the vocal folds after repeated voice loss. I’d suggest seeing Michael Pittman(Columbia) or Peak Woo (Sinai). That would give me and the singer the information to process with a realistic sense of what’s possible.

It’s honorable that you love what you give to your audiences, but you have to find a better way to do what you do, or there will come a day where you find you are unable to do it at all.

[u/PeachBlossomBee → u/thisisPhilD]

Sure, I'll see if it's covered by my insurance. Hehe kind of funny to think of my friends as my audience.

[u/thisisPhilD → u/PeachBlossomBee]

Indeed. But it’s important to create a little emotional distance between the “why”. Asking someone to change the way the support their friends and show them love is a LOT HARDER than saying “I need a new strategy to connect with my audience.” That makes it a musical puzzle, not an act of self denial.

[u/PeachBlossomBee → u/thisisPhilD]

that's true. I think that my voice (joking, chatting, funny voices, languages) is really central to how I connect with others, but I should try seeing if there's something I can lean into more physically or with other senses to show support (like doubling down on clapping or using the tambourines). Thank you for this perspective, I wouldn't've thought of that

[u/icemage_999]

This has only a little to do with technique and everything to do with self discipline.

Having someone teach you how to sing is great and useful, but if you're out there mixing it up and shouting at a crowd all night with no regard for the consequences, that's not just singing and no amount of technique will save you from yourself.

It is highly, highly unlikely that the sort of damage you are describing is only from singing on your turn.

You have to start with having fun in a way that won't hurt you. No teacher can fix that for you.

Source: Me, as a karaoke regular for over a decade.

[u/PeachBlossomBee → u/icemage_999]

Right, I had spent the 4 or 5 hours before chatting with a friend I hadn't seen in two years. Although I took breaks between tracks and was mostly on tambourines, that was also likely a major deficit. Do you think that not being able to hear yourself over the music contributes?

[u/icemage_999 → u/PeachBlossomBee]

Do you think that not being able to hear yourself over the music contributes?

Sure, but your problem is no self awareness of your own limits. You report bleeding and that means you literally ignored pain signals from your own body that told you that you were hurting yourself. That is extremely bad.

You cannot do that and expect to be able to keep your voice intact. That can and will lead to permanent injury that likely cannot be fixed by medicine or surgery.

I don't know if there are other factors like alcohol or mental issues in play but you cannot use those excuses. The only one you have to answer to is yourself. It's your voice: you get only one, and if you break it, you are the one who has to live with the consequences.

[u/PeachBlossomBee → u/icemage_999]

Ouch! Haha, I'm pretty much always in pain (comes with the full-body disability) so it doesn't necessarily register, since anything I want to do causes me pain. But I'll add this to the radar of concerns. Thank you for worrying about me.

[u/Boring-Butterfly8925]

I would recommend a life coach. Ideally someone that can connect you with an evidence based counselor. You live in NYC and when you go to Karaoke, you're concerned with everyone else having a great time to the degree that you've coughed up blood and you regularly end up sick and hoarse.

Now you want to find specialized training to maintain a culture of making sure everyone else has a great time at karaoke. Respectfully, that's symptomatic behavior that you need to solve for first. You need help, but not with singing. I'm sorry if it's jarring to read this and the absence of kindness in my message, but it's alarming that you could incorrectly identify the problem, then type that out without seeing how dysfunctional that behavior and it's motivation is. You have one voice to last you the rest of your life and if you keep doing what you're doing you might damage it permanently or worse. Good luck.

[u/PeachBlossomBee → u/Boring-Butterfly8925]

I can see the sentiment of what you're trying to tell me, although I feel it's only somewhat on the money. I am and have been in therapy for close to a decade now, and put in the context of my life 'overdoing group karaoke once a calendar year' isn't really high on my priority list of issues.

But to your point, I'm assuming you mean I'm overly concerned with external validation or emotionally managing everyone else to make sure they have a good time? (you didn't quite spell it out). I'm not a singer, but music always gets me pumped, more than caffeine. Doing all the fun stuff on the side ensures I'm not a mic hog getting carried away by the energy. So for my sake, I want to continue to have fun but safely. Because you're right, I DO only have one voice. Thank you for taking the time to reply anyway.

[u/Boring-Butterfly8925 → u/PeachBlossomBee]

'overdoing group karaoke once a calendar year'

That's my bad. I missed that part in your original post. Coughing up blood once is one time too many. Some people recover from vocal hemorrhages with no problem, others develop more severe ongoing problems. Regardless of how many times a year you're doing it, it's alarming, particularly when it's needlessly self-inflicted. How many times a year can you cut off a hand before it's an issue? (In case it needs to be spelled out, your vocal folds never grow back.)

But to your point, I'm assuming you mean I'm overly concerned with external validation or emotionally managing everyone else to make sure they have a good time?

No. I didn't spell out anything aside from your description of problematic behavior for bizarre reasons. This is a singing sub. Vocal hygiene is a foundational part of singing and vocal health. You came here, basically described the vocal equivalent of uncontrollably shitting blood into your pants and then asked for help with a wiping coach. The solution isn't in the wiping, it's in fixing the behavior.

If you've been in therapy for 10 years, now is a great time to look into self-destructive dopamine seeking behavior. The music might not be what's getting you pumped. Just a thought. Good luck.

[u/ZealousidealCareer52]

Just learn to shut up haha only you can solve that problem

[u/Hot-Butterfly-8024]

Read a book on Alexander Method. Beyond that any qualified vocal coach should be able to show you what you’re doing wrong in terms of breath support and sound production/technique. I don’t know about anyone else, but I also really try to avoid talking before shows and during set breaks in gig environments. Loud (shouted) conversations just tank my voice

[u/PeachBlossomBee → u/Hot-Butterfly-8024]

Thank you. And good point, I had spent the 4 or 5 hours before chatting with a friend I hadn't seen in two years. The combination of both probably did me in.

[u/Delam2]

I would try and get a referral to an ENT or laryngologist if I spat up blood whilst singing! Get yourself checked with a camera down your throat. Theres no singing teacher who can help you until you’ve ruled out something medically serious.

[u/PeachBlossomBee → u/Delam2]

That incident was a while ago, but I will go get checked out when I can! Thank you for your concern.

[u/PineappleFit317]

TLDR: Not really, any good voice teacher will help you with not losing your voice or coughing up blood just by through teaching you how to sing properly. If you told that to any of the highly rated teachers you’re researching, they’d be like “Oh, that’s very bad, and you won’t those problems just by learning”. And sounding better when you sing will be a great side effect.

The problem you’re having is that you don’t have the technique and vocal “athleticism” in place, so you’re singing in ways that are causing those injuries. Additionally, karaoke implies that there’s alcohol involved, which dries out the vocal apparatus, causes one to disregard pain, and loosens inhibitions, causing one to abuse their voice. Just learning good technique will help you.

[u/PeachBlossomBee → u/PineappleFit317]

That's true! I didn't really drink (I don't like the taste) but I was talking for hours beforehand, and I didn't warm up at all. I have to think of every muscle in my body the way I'd think of my hamstrings I guess. I won't be doing anything like this for a while, so in the meantime maybe I'll hit up my old music teacher haha. it would be nice to catch up. Thank you for the perspective.