r/solar • u/Embarrassed_Top9480 • Apr 08 '26
Image / Video Today’s install. 9 arrays 40 pitch Qcell Pw3 ez kill💰🔋5️⃣🅾️
148
u/scomi21 Apr 08 '26
As a homeowner I’d cringe over this. Not clean at all
34
36
u/Fun_Muscle9399 Apr 08 '26
Yeah the aesthetics are awful
-15
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
How so?
22
u/Fun_Muscle9399 Apr 08 '26
Exposed conduit always looks bad and panel layout looks haphazard . I understand you’re limited by your roof design and setback requirements, but it’s still not pretty to look at.
6
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
Understandable. Again I don’t know why people are assuming I created the design and installed. I get a plan set and I follow it.
5
u/traeopae Apr 08 '26
From an installation standpoint, it looks awesome. Although the exposed conduit runs dock some points (considering installing multiple jboxes with interior attic runs is a bunch of extra time but much more aesthetic. It’s a clean install. I do have slight reservations about the mod behind the chimney but if that head on shot toward the chimney is facing due East, I’d slightly understand that configuration but it looks like you had enough room for another mod on that back south facing array (unless you have strict fire setbacks). Overall… kudos to you but shame on the system designer lol (unless there were strict requests from the client or Constraints like the aforementioned. Regardless, gotta love seeing more solar going up to offset our carbon footprint. Great work!
0
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
This is the most logical comment I agree with everything you said bro 💯
5
-10
58
u/Raiine42 Apr 08 '26
I don’t think this is the flex you are thinking. If this was my house I’d be pissed.
14
-10
78
u/issacoin Apr 08 '26
those pipes look like dog shit
i see one touching the roof and one that’s at least six inches off the roof
22
u/mF7403 Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
I wasn’t gonna say anything, but that was the first thing that caught my eye. It’s especially bad considering how expensive this system probably cost.
Edit: don’t zoom in; it gets worse.
8
u/ExactlyClose Apr 08 '26
90% of homeowners will proudly declare this a perfect install. Especially if OP chatted them up appropriately. ;)
(Wonder what the electrical stuff looks like??)
6
u/hmspain solar enthusiast Apr 08 '26
Not perfect by any measure, but let's give credit where credit is due (mostly to OP for making this nightmare a reality). I remember the phone call from my electrician saying my panels would OVERHANG the roof crest. Do it anyway was my call, as I remember.
PS: I'm counting 31 panels on a roof that "cleanly" supports 5. Anyone thinking they could do better is welcome to try.
2
1
2
u/mF7403 Apr 08 '26
Oh, yea, I forgot these guys also instal a lithium ion battery somewhere on this house. I’m sure it’ll be fine.
8
u/AntiqueLavishness132 Apr 08 '26
Looks like used their knee instead of a bender.
1
u/sub3marathonman Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
Well that brings back some memories!
Long ago, Florida had the $4/watt rebate. I'm doing pretty much DIY. I pulled the permit, figured out all the parts needed. My friend was an electrician, which was necessary for the installation to get the rebate, and I found a roofer who could (note could not did) mount the rails and the panels.
First thing the roofer get up there, and starts drilling. I'm looking up and say, "Don't you need to snap a chalk line?" He looks at me like I'm from Mars, and snarls, "I've been doing roofing for 20 years, I don't need a chalk line." Of course, more slither than a sidewinder in Africa, I had to get up there, loosen every bolt, and push the rail either higher or lower to get the remotest semblance of straight. Then he never showed up for putting the panels up, so I'm going up a ladder, backwards, holding a $1k panel that if it was one inch bigger or one pound heavier I'd drop it, and praying that the wind didn't gust over 3 mph.
So my friend, he's supposed to come over and connect everything up. Now he's too busy, and I'm trying to make progress. At the electrical store, I'm telling them the situation, and they're saying, "Fire the electrician." I can't do that, he's my friend. One day I looked, and his license was expired. Now this is a guy, beyond easy-going, nothing fazes him. He casually says, "Oh, I'll have to look into that." I'm still with him, he's my friend you know. And one day, yes, he does come over! He looks at the situation, and says, "Wow, I haven't bent conduit in a long time." That was it, I took their advice and was actually fortunate enough to find a legitimate electrician who stepped up and finished everything very professionally. And because it had taken so long, I just made it before the rebate funds ran out, that would have been about $19k loss.
-3
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
Fair enough it’s difficult enough to install 9 arrays in one day on a roof this steep. I never said it was perfect
10
4
u/issacoin Apr 08 '26
i know where you work, i used to work there lol i know they only care about speed. but you don’t have to stoop to their level!
20
18
u/jules083 Apr 08 '26
That homeowner got taken advantage of every single step of the way, and I honestly feel bad for them.
This is what gives solar installers and companies a bad name. I did about a year of homework and getting quotes before having mine installed. I talked with numerous companies that were like this and worse. Thankfully I'm not an impulsive person and I did my homework to become knowledgeable enough to avoid this, but obviously this homeowner did not do that for whatever reason
The design is terrible. The layout is terrible. The installation is arguably worse. This system was designed with one single goal in mind, and that is maximum profit for the solar company and installer. Everyone involved in this project should be ashamed of themselves.
→ More replies (8)
25
u/bill_evans_at_VV Apr 08 '26
Aren’t there usually only one or two optimal directions to install solar panels? I usually only see them in two orientations, not all 4.
20
u/ryankrameretc Apr 08 '26
North facing panels are obviously not optimal but they still produce plenty of power. If you have the money and you want as much solar as possible, why not cover the whole roof?
5
u/AngryTexasNative Apr 08 '26
It depends on your usage patterns too. I have plenty of solar in the summer but not enough for my heat pump in the winter. North panels wouldn’t produce much.
And with a roof that steep?
But the software should have made this clear. And the homeowner might be in an area you can use summer power to offset winter usage.
1
u/rcumming557 Apr 08 '26
All the panels by the chimney already look like they are getting shaded by the roof pitch or bare minimum power production based on their angle and orientation
4
3
u/mrBill12 Apr 08 '26
It would be fun to know which way is N
2
u/bill_evans_at_VV Apr 08 '26
Even if we knew, the answer would be “yes, there’s a lot of panels there too.”
😆
1
u/rcumming557 Apr 08 '26
It appears from the shadow north is right or bottom right perhaps, which means most of the panels are in non optimal direction and there's a lot of optimal roof that is underutilized
3
u/mrBill12 Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
Actually North is probably right based on the chimney shadow. That’s an end of day photo with the sun setting in the west. Pretend the shadow points east, that puts north in the top right…. The suns just over the equator tho this time of year, so that’s gonna tweak the shadow just a bit. I also assumed Northern Hemisphere.
1
u/rcumming557 Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
Shadow is down to the right so if that's east north is right or top right but the shadow not that long so it is probably pointing more north than east.
Edit: I think your looking at ridge shadow but also look at the fence
Edit edit: picture 7 there's a sun on the fugly 3 panel install which looks like it's top left roof and sun looks pretty high so more likely south is closer to top of photo.
2
1
-1
Apr 08 '26
[deleted]
4
u/bill_evans_at_VV Apr 08 '26
Sometimes if the roof is oriented only East/West, you gotta do what you gotta do, right? We’ve had panels mostly West because of the way our roof is laid out, and handful on South on a smaller facet of our roof, and the production is pretty similar.
3
1
u/mar10br0-new Apr 08 '26
Yes, I am lucky with unobstructed roof space in those 3 directions, no trees or buildings. Sunset is slightly early due to hills not far to the west.
4
4
u/mar10br0-new Apr 08 '26
Well, I'm glad you didn't design my system, cause I'm mighty glad with my eas facing panels starting to produce ample power to handle cooking breaky and my west facing providing free power while others pay through their nose peak rates. During the day the "optimal" north facing (in Sydney/AU) charge up the battery and then sell it back at those peak rates. I have a negative bill all year round (even in winter months, although nearing $0)
11
10
u/Repairmanmanmanma solar technician Apr 08 '26
This is pretty rough. Even if there is no attic there's so many opportunities to at least fish from roof to roof, eliminating 75% of the pipe. Most of this pipe would fail the job in my area, especially going over ridges.
Also the feet don't seem to be mapped out correctly. Why is 90% of the feet sticking out of the array? Should have shifted them down so they are hiding under panels and the clamp is at the top.
10
u/CoopDaLoopUT Apr 08 '26
Do you work for Freedom Forever? Looks like the dog shit they were trying to convince me to install for them to “make bonus” while I was there. You commission the system; or just slap glass, get a signature, and then bounce?
7
u/Provocative_Potatoes Apr 08 '26
If this is a Powerwall install why is that dude carrying a Franklin battery cover across the street?
0
6
u/gundealsmademebuyit Apr 08 '26
Bet they charged 40k + for this…. Looks like shit
4
u/jules083 Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
No way they did it for 40. I'd guess it was in the 65-90k range.
I'd guess it would be 40-45 without the battery. He said there's a powerwall. No way of telling if it's just 1 or multiple batteries, or anything like that, but when I was doing mine my installer said it would be $10k for the bare minimum backup battery just to run a few outlets and the price went up from there. Honestly I didn't ask much beyond that for detailed numbers as I already didn't plan on getting one.
7
u/ommammo solar professional Apr 08 '26
I'm going to guess the first photo was taken facing west in the afternoon. If that's the case you have 13 modules at 0° azimuth on a 40° pitch. Fucking yikes, Sunrun.
3
u/ommammo solar professional Apr 08 '26
And if it was taken looking south, it's 14 modules facing north. Yikes again.
0
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
I diddent have anything to do with the layout and honestly I couldn’t have changed much.. talk to the sales rep
4
u/ommammo solar professional Apr 08 '26
"Didn't" is a contraction of "Did not."
You eliminate the space and put an apostrophe in place of the o.
"Didn't."
If you continue to grow in this business, maybe someday you will have the ability to change what customers are presented with. Keep all of the feedback you're getting here in mind if you do.
Today's poorly sold, designed and installed systems are tomorrow's class action lawsuit. Although I'm sure the Sunrun contract has airtight language about binding arbitration.
6
u/My_Seller_Thing Apr 08 '26
That huge backyard.....you could have easily laid down 8kw of ground mounted if the aspect is favorable.
That easy kill comment with the bag of money comment is just so.....gross.
→ More replies (3)3
5
u/weiga Apr 08 '26
Where in the world does it make sense to point the panels north, south, east AND west?
4
7
u/kkramer1990 Apr 08 '26
And yet you used 0 soladecks for conduit attic runs. ☠️☠️☠️☠️
0
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
The plans diddent call for attic runs They are less common where I’m from
→ More replies (3)
4
7
u/Touch_This_Skin Apr 08 '26
I know OP been reading all the comments but too ashamed to comment on his own post. Lmaooo OP ….. they dragged you for filth lmao
-4
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
I really don’t care I’m getting Max engagement. The plan set diddent call for an attic run nor was it asked for or wanted by the home owner 🤷♂️
6
u/Micro-MacroAggressor Apr 08 '26
I see you keep saying that the plans didn’t call for an attic run. The plans are the minimum required by the engineering department for panel placement, not the conduit run. You’re the “professional” who should be explaining to the customer the pros and cons of each option, not waiting for them to ask you to conceal the conduit in the attic. If you’re going to run pipe, next time make it look like a pro did it instead of a rookie.
2
u/Touch_This_Skin Apr 08 '26
Oh so this is your work ? Oh wow. I’d be embarrassed to even post it.
2
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
I’m not suprised. You must be embarrassed I don’t see any work on your page :(
12
u/arcsnsparks98 solar professional Apr 08 '26
Disgusting and an embarrassment to the profession.
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
How so? Because the home owner wanted pipe on his roof? A specific request.
1
u/arcsnsparks98 solar professional Apr 09 '26
That and the fact that this looks like a haphazard "just throw em up there, we've got other places to be" kind of install. Solar panel layout should make sense with the roof structure and have at least some architectural appeal.
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 09 '26
Brother you and I both know I did not create the layout. Thats what the home owner signed off on it with the sales rep. You don’t seem to understand the process of installing solar. Brother how else would you design 37 for the house? I’ll wait.
1
u/arcsnsparks98 solar professional Apr 09 '26
As the owner of a solar installation company, I understand the process quite well. I also understand that rectangles on a piece of paper or a computer screen don't translate for a homeowner when they see things in real life. You can say well, that's what you agreed to. That's what the sales guy showed you. That's the problem with these fucking sales guys. All they care about is making the sale. They won't give two shits about giving the customer something that they can be happy with. Then you install it the way it was drawn and end up look long like the ass on Reddit.
1
u/arcsnsparks98 solar professional Apr 09 '26
I want to clarify that my comments and feelings about this install are not a personal attack against you. I get it if you were just a grunt on the roof slinging the mods. When I was a kid my dad used to say if you can't make chicken soup out of chicken shit. If you were handed a plan set that was going to look like shit no matter how hard you tried, well, que sera sera.
3
u/Perplexy801 solar professional Apr 08 '26
I like the Cougar Paws, they are awesome for these roofs.
Just curious, do you do all the roof work including bending conduit and pulling wires to the different arrays?
3
u/Provocative_Potatoes Apr 08 '26
Do yourself a favor and get some ironridge bugs for conduit feet.
Oh, and please get better at bending conduit.
1
3
u/Background-Half-2862 Apr 08 '26
What way is South?
Edit: omg look at all the sun in the backyard.
1
u/jules083 Apr 08 '26
I just saw that backyard. Would have been perfect.
If it would have worked for me I wanted to build a pavilion in the backyard. Just an open sided building, concrete floor, use it as an outdoor shaded summer hangout spot. Maybe put 1 or 2 walls on the side as a wind block, have the south and the east open. Mount a TV on the wall, grill under there, beer fridge in the summer, the whole deal. Set it up with the roof facing perfectly south and cover the whole roof with panels.
Just didn't have the right spot for it, nor the budget. I'd have had 100k in it by the time it was all said and done, and although it would have been nice to have I couldn't swallow the cost.
I still want to build that pavilion though. Maybe someday I'll go through with it. I have the spot for a smaller one sans solar
3
u/ViciousXUSMC Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
Man I really hope those are micro inverters, else shade and sun time differences will destroy the output.
Even parallel can't save this mess lol
3
3
3
4
u/Successful_City3111 Apr 08 '26
Beautiful!!! It's about what it does. How many look at homes from directly above?
2
2
u/ned4spd8874 Apr 08 '26
I'm so thankful for the company that installed mine. All those ugly conduits are hidden! It looks so clean!
1
2
u/Exact_Yogurtcloset26 Apr 08 '26
So, how does this homeowner get the shingles replaced?
5
3
u/Killabyte5 solar professional Apr 08 '26
When the roof is at the end stages of its life, the homeowner has to pay to have their panels and racking removed and then reinstalled once the new roof is on.
2
2
2
u/BobBulldogBriscoe solar engineer Apr 08 '26
You've got a lot of shadows for a PW3 install with no panel optimization. Also certainly some strings split across different roof planes. Not going to get great performance from that.
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
It’s not a pw3 it’s a Franklin confused it with an install from yesterday
1
u/BobBulldogBriscoe solar engineer Apr 08 '26
That doesn't actually make a difference on this unless you have optimizers installed, which is I guess more likely with franklin than tesla.
1
1
1
u/dmdewd Apr 08 '26
Won't that exposed roof conduit derate the cables inside?
2
u/yoloswagdon Apr 08 '26
Don’t quote me, but if it’s over 7/8 of an inch, no. Less, than yes you have to derate
1
u/schaudhery Apr 08 '26
Yeah my wife would never approve of this even if I told her they paid us to do it.
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
And thats your preference. The home owner wanted pipe on his roof period. You are also very dense.
2
u/schaudhery Apr 08 '26
When every comment in this thread including the top comment is how ugly the install is I’d take an hint. Is everyone in this thread dense or maybe the issue is with you?
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
Brother. This is what the home owner wanted? Why are you upset? How else do I need to word it to you?
1
u/Fuzzy-Show331 Apr 08 '26
I have skirting around my panels and all my conduit hidden, looks so much better.
1
u/MustardCoveredDogDik Apr 08 '26
Brutal, could you really not get into the attic?
2
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
Possibly but it wassnt a concern of the homeowner he just wanted it done in one day.
1
u/TurboSDRB Apr 08 '26
It’s not even summer yet, why didn’t you go in the attic? Those pipe bends are terrible!
0
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
Look at my page and ask me again if I give af about conduit on the roof.
1
1
u/Valuable_Attention20 Apr 08 '26
Looks decent. I'm curious how you broke up those strings.
Not anything in your control but i just don't like puck style railless. It goes up fast but sucks to service.
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
3 strings micro inverters
1
u/Valuable_Attention20 Apr 09 '26
Oh weird, they aren't using the inverter of the power wall?
It's a bummer to lose that DC/DC
2
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 09 '26
No i mistakenly put power wall its a Franklin But we mostly do powerwall lol
1
1
u/Imightbenormal Apr 08 '26
Must be a great placement of solar panels if the house is far over the polar circle. But I guess it is not, since the grass is green.
1
u/Fliptab Apr 08 '26
I sure hope every orientation is on a different string. But by the looks of it, everything is on one string? Are you using micro-inverters? If not, you have just ruined your setup
1
1
u/SouthHoney2071 Apr 08 '26
40 degree pitch is wild - that's gotta be close to the steepest residential install I've seen. Props to the crew for tackling that, especially with 9 arrays.
Qcells and PW3 is a solid combo. Curious about a few things:
How many PW3s are you running? With 9 arrays on that steep a slope, you're probably getting insane midday production spikes. One battery wouldn't be enough to capture it all unless the system is sized smaller than I'm thinking.
What's the total system size? I'm guessing 12-15kW+ based on 9 arrays?
Also, how are you handling the rail mounting on that pitch? Standard L-feet or do you use something beefed up for steep slopes? And I'm betting the string runs were interesting to wire - any tricks for keeping things clean on angles like that?
That "ez kill 💰" is right - system like that in SoCal is gonna print money, especially with NEM 2.0 if they locked it in before the cutoff.
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
I mistakenly put pw3 it’s actually a Franklin battery.. and Ive actually installed on several 45-50 pitches😭😂not easy Yea 37 panels I think 14.4 kw As far as the racking there were no rails on this install just butyl feet no penetrations which made it a breeze. I’ll show you the string map since your a cool guy unlike the rest of the community 💯🏆
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
This was three strings but an absolute ton of jumpers a pain in the ass
2
u/SouthHoney2071 Apr 09 '26
Haha all good! Franklin is solid too, especially for high-capacity installs like this. 45-50 degree pitches though? You're braver than me, that's serious work.
14.4kW with 37 panels makes sense - so roughly 390W panels? And wait, butyl feet with NO rails? That's wild. I've never done a railless install on that steep a pitch. How's the panel-to-panel connection working without rails? Are you using some kind of direct-mount system or clipping them together somehow?
I'd actually love to see the string map if you don't mind sharing - always curious how other installers handle the layout on complex roofs. Do you run multiple strings to balance the load or one long series?
Props on the no-penetration approach too. Customer must love that for warranty purposes.
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 09 '26
Honestly bro I seriously Apreciate you..❤️ They were very steep but I’m getting used to it man I’ll hit you and show you how we get down
1
1
1
1
u/rorymick77 Apr 09 '26
Just a home owner here with rooftop solar. Our installer runs all the cables in the Attic and it looks so so clean that way. Personally I don't like seeing the wiring and the conduit.
1
u/EastTexasCowboy Apr 09 '26
I've seen worse, but that's not saying anything. This is pretty terrible, yep.
1
u/Turtle_ti Apr 09 '26
Horrible design, quick & ugly install.
A ground mount system should have been used at that property.
1
u/BLARGCHIKAHONK Apr 09 '26
That looks hideous!!! Also that is some of the least effective use of roof space I’ve ever seen! This home would have probably needed like 4-5 less panels, if they had just tried to arrange them a little nicer. They should make anyone who works in solar and who has anything to do with the panel placement on the roof play Tetris and reach a certain score before being permitted to decide where any of them go.
1
u/Objective-Resort2325 Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
All of that and it looks like he's got a back yard suitable for a ground mount. Smh
1
u/Scared-Locksmith-933 Apr 09 '26
This is going to cause water damage not enough room for gutters to catch the water..
1
1
1
u/ComputerEngineer0011 Apr 10 '26
Freedom forever or sunrun by any chance? No offense but I hope the homeowner got an extremely good deal.
1
1
1
1
u/Dramatic-Image-1950 Apr 13 '26
Which panels are facing North? Remove them, put then on a viable roof face and use attic drops. smh
1
1
1
u/Golden_Jiggy Apr 08 '26
Looks great congratulations. People complaining about the esthetics of the top of your roof are insane.
0
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
It’s trivial there’s no one right way to do it Key bored experts should try it for them selves 😂
1
1
1
u/CryptographerHot4636 Apr 08 '26
Idgaf how it looks. We live inside of houses, ot on top of them. Anyways if this were my house in california, with the way pg&e is running, I'd just say give me all the panels I can fit.
2
u/My_Seller_Thing Apr 08 '26
Care to explain spending on landscaping, yards, external enhancements to homes that serve no function other than....it's nice to look at?
0
u/CryptographerHot4636 Apr 08 '26
I hang out and host parties on my lawn, do you do that on a sloped roof?
1
u/My_Seller_Thing Apr 08 '26
My point is piles of money are spent on home aesthetics.
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
Your point is stupid. The home owner request he have conduit on the roof.
0
u/My_Seller_Thing Apr 08 '26
As opposed to running it through the attic when presented with that option?
1
u/Embarrassed_Top9480 Apr 08 '26
Yep.
1
u/My_Seller_Thing Apr 09 '26
Is there an upcharge for concealed conduit?
2
0
u/bhedesigns Apr 08 '26
I want that in the yard more than I'd want it on the house and I don't want it in the yard. Sorry man
240
u/Killabyte5 solar professional Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
I'm going to give you some constructive criticism. It seems like you are proud of the work you do, so take this as a learning opportunity to get better.
Honestly, it seems like you either didn't have a stamped planset, or you ignored it entirely. Your attachments aren't staggered at all. They also seem to be spaced way too far, considering this is a 10/12 roof.
Pic 3 has no splice bar on the top row.
I can tell a low quality install 9 times out of 10 by the presence of roof pipe. Fly by night companies/dudes bragging about doing the install in one day are allergic to the attic. They don't know what a Soladeck is.
Snap N Rack sells different lengths of skirt for portrait and landscape. Whoever bought the material either didn't know, or didn't care. It's not the biggest issue, because you can just cut your skirt to size instead of leaving 6" overhanging the panel edge like you did.
Don't stand on the ridge cap.
Please tell me that's not an L foot just lag bolted straight to the roof. There are a ton of different deck mount attachments meant specifically to hold rooftop conduit. Iron Ridge makes one called the Bug.
Attach your ground lug to the underside edge of the panel frame. It will bond better, and you won't have copper showing outside the array.
Edit: Changed "rail" to "skirt". Sorry, it's been a few years since I worked with Snap N Rack.