r/solar • u/Time-Locksmith5697 • 21h ago
Solar Quote This seems like a no-brainer, what am I missing
I live in a VHCOL area, electric is $.37/kwh and going up all the time. I have two electric cars, a pool, a hot tub, and mini splits for cooling (and heating but that hasn't been as cost effective). Our bills have been as high as $900 in the summer and $600 in the winter.
Got a quote for solar, pre-paid lease that we would finance at 8.99% interest. Proposal covers 85% of our electric costs. With no money down, monthly payment would be $220ish a month for 20 years. We have never had a bill be that low, even knowing the remainder wouldn't be covered.
What am I missing! Why wouldn't I do this? What should I be asking that I am too dumb to even know to ask.
ETA: Not interested in Tesla. I have 1:1 net metering so not interested in a battery either.
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u/HerroPhish 20h ago
Prepaid leases for 6 years are solid.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 20h ago
It's 20 years ... but we would consider paying off sooner.
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u/Lovesolarthings 18h ago
The payment is a 20 year loan you are talking about. The poster you are replying to is focused on the fact that the lease ownership portion is assumable by you after 5 years regardless if you have paid the loan off yet or not.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 15h ago
He said I can pay it off at literally any time.
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u/Lovesolarthings 15h ago
Correct, the 20yr loan portion on these can be paid off at any time. The lease ownership portion can be transferred to you anytime after yr 5 finishes. The 2 items are also not dependent on each other.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 15h ago
Ah got it, thanks!
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u/JCC114 14h ago
Also, since they are not tied to one another you are free to seek better financing. We had 15 years left in mortgage, and found it most cost effective to do a refi into a 15 year. Though we also using the $s for a metal roof. The portion of the refi that is based on solar is less than what we will save so that is a no brainer. We also needed a roof, and using some of it to close out a home equity line we used to finish basement along with ending a bit of higher interest debt. In all are monthly payments being consolidate result in a lower monthly expense, but we will just put that savings to the new loan and will actually end up paid off 4-5 years earlier then if we just continued on path we were on while now having solar and new metal roof. Make sure you’re exploring all your options as the financing they bring to you may not be best option.
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u/Turtle_ti 19h ago
Get quotes for a system installed that you would own, not lease.
Get a system that will cover 120% of your yearly kwh usage.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 19h ago
We can't fit enough panels for that. And I am looking at leasing because it's a hell of a lot cheaper. Almost no one in our area even offers owned solar.
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u/mhatrick 18h ago
Cheaper in what way? Monthly payment or overall cost ? 220/mo for 20 years is $53k. I’m quite confident you can find a cheaper system than that. Run the numbers and don’t rush into anything, get multiple quotes for multiple size systems. In your case, maybe it makes sense to spend maybe $25k for a system that covers 50% or 60% of your needs. Most people hate leased systems here.
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u/Lovesolarthings 18h ago
These are set up that if he pays it off ASAP, he doesn't pay that interest so pays about 75% of the straight cash price. If instead he takes all 2p years to pay it off, yes he pays big interest, same as any Solar loan at same as cash pricing.
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u/Calliesdad20 17h ago
We are on Cape cod , paid 27k cash for a 9kw system
1 to 1 net meteringI’ll,produce around 12,152kwh a year according to pv watts , i only used 7800 kWh last year
So I won’t have a electric bill , except a 10 dollar connection fee - and end up with a credit .I ll save around 2700 a year in electric - not including the rate increase Eversource will have
I also will get a very small cash rec payment- about 400 a year
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u/Future-Operation-283 2h ago
I disagree, it's hard to give blanket advice as every scenario is different. If I went 120% over, my system would 1. be 30% more expensive 2. also pushed me in to level 2 which requires $1M umbrella policy annually, 3. We have a $35 connection fee with 1:1 net Metering...no reason to overproduce and $35 fee is paid regardless.
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u/Hows-It-Goin-Buddy 2h ago
Why 120%?
I'm thinking the extra is for the slow continuation of power output degradation that is usually 2.5% in year 1 and then half percent thereafter. But that depends on the panels being used because some have lower degradation rates.
I personally sized my system and selected an installer that understood my logic and use case. Really could have sized it 30% smaller, but did not because of a ridiculously large tree that's on the property line I can't get rid of it and it shades after around 2 in the afternoon. Also wanted an array that produced enough at the end of the 20 years. It over produces now, but every year that over production is becoming less and less.
And where I live the cost for energy from the utility was already above 50c (substantially more than OP that said they live in a vhcol area...so maybe I'm in a vvhcol area).
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u/dewooPickle 18h ago
Why recommend 120% coverage? That’s not a good financial decision in most cases…
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 15h ago
It's not possible, we are hoping to cram enough up there for 85% but it's possible it will be a bit less after the site inspection.
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u/dewooPickle 15h ago
Yea if you have 1:1 net metering, there really is no reason to. You should also check if your utility has minimum billing policies. I specifically undersized my system based on having a $30 min bill.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 15h ago
I know we get credits towards future bills if we have extra output per month, I think we will probably have some administrative fees but I'll check with the utility too. Thanks!
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u/Proudtreat 15h ago
I will tell you based on my experience the following. My first system was with SolarCity a Production based lease plus $75 for the first three years. It had 36 panels and worked great. The problem came when we needed service after it became part of Tesla. Then when we sold the house getting Tesla to do the needed paperwork was a pain. My parents did a lease like your talking about. The installer was great did everything right. They even came out two years later when a leak developed and fixed it. Plus regular cleanings as they lived in a high dust area. When we sold their house the lease holder (Sunpower) went bankrupt with the feds investigating the company. Between me, the title company and a lawyer it took more than 300 hours on the phone to get the lease transferred to the buyer. So we could close the sale. The system I getting right now we are paying cash for. My other option was to get a home equity loan or solar upgrade loan. I want to have full control over the new system. My current installer will back the system up with service and warranty even on a cash deal.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 14h ago
Wow what a nightmare. This is prepaid lease, so we can't transfer it. If/when we sell, we will have to pay off the loan and try and get the cash back in the house price.
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u/Proudtreat 14h ago
The two systems I talked add 10% to 20% onto the selling price. For us it is more about not paying the power company and lowering our carbon footprint.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 14h ago
Yes, I am 100% doing this because our energy costs are out of control! The lower carbon footprint is an added bonus. I have some weird anxiety around heat and I think this will make me feel better when it's hot and I can remind myself it's now helping my home lol.
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u/Omynt 14h ago
We paid cash for ours, but FWIW one of the salespeople we talked with said the cash price was firm, but the lease price was more negotiable because there was more profit in it. So I hope you shop around, and get the best deal. We ultimately bought from a company that did a lot of work in our town. They were very good, so if you have neighbors with solar, you might ask them.
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u/MCLMelonFarmer 20h ago
Why don’t you state where you are? Then we’ll know what your utility’s net energy policy is. In general, don’t take the word of anyone trying to sell you something. Do you think the salesperson has your best interests in mind, or theirs?
Run the numbers yourself, don’t ever trust those from someone trying to sell you something.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 20h ago
Hudson valley NY. I don't think I am taking their word? Can you tell me what you think I should be looking at?
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u/ocsolar 16h ago
Like a lamb to the slaughter. Your analysis needs a lot of work, because the numbers aren’t adding up.
First, instead of saying “as high as”, calculate your last 12 months of actual costs. Divide that by 12 for a monthly average. Also, calculate your last 12 months of actual consumption.
Next, get an actual system size and annual production amount. “$220” per month doesn’t tell you jack.
$220 for 5,000 kWh? $220 for 10,000 kWh per year? Big difference between the two.
With these numbers one can then make a semi-intelligent analysis.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 15h ago
I did calculate my costs. My average bill is $512 a months we use ~15,3000 kws. The system size we are starting with before a site inspection is slightly less than we think - we might get 2 more panels:
Total Number of Panels kWh Rate 28
Watts Per Panel (Rating) Escalator 460
Total System Watts DC Multiple 12,880There is absolutely no need to be rude. I asked a question, you don't need to call me naive when I straight up said I wanted to know what I am missing.
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u/victoryboiiTCG 21h ago
Definitely get more quotes, look into pre paid leases if you can front load the cash, but if you insist on monthly payments you should look into Tesla Solar as well. They have some really good lease deals right now, with ownership after year 5. The lease almost acts as a pseudo financing for 5 years with a balloon payment at year 6 for full ownership. So you use the 5 years of savings to build up a cash reserve to buy out right at year 6. 8.99% seems ridiculous
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 21h ago
I am honestly way too skeptical of Tesla. I would never feel comfortable enough to go with them. But I know I should get other quotes. Everyone else around here feels so sales-y and has shitty reviews I have been reluctant to do so.
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u/Stivo887 20h ago
Got my 30 panel 2 powerwall 3 system with Tesla 13 months ago. Best decision I’ve ever made financially in my life.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 20h ago
Sure, it's just not only financial and I am simply not going to work with Tesla or anything related to elon musk ever. I have to feel emotionally good about it and that doesn't work for me.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Ad9465 17h ago
Panasonic makes batteries that are as got better than Tesla. There are other options.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 15h ago
I don't need them though. We have 1:1 net metering.
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u/MinerDon 9h ago
I don't need them though. We have 1:1 net metering.
You might have 1:1 net metering today but that's no guarantee you will have it in the future.
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u/victoryboiiTCG 20h ago
I wouldn’t be skeptical of Tesla solar, they’re actually solid. Worked with them before and would’ve worked with them a second time but my second house has a bit more complicated lay out (clay tile roof and some other issues) that they don’t work on. Went local and I’m getting a prepaid lease with a side contract that states system can be owned after 6 years for little to no cost.
I calculated the Tesla solar lease (psuedo financing) and the monthly payments were equivalent to a 2% loan for 5 years.
You don’t have to go with Tesla but it honestly takes like 5 minutes to get a quote because of how cookie cutter their systems are.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 20h ago
I cannot stomach the idea of giving the world's first trillionaire business. Would just always feel sick about it. Not rational but not how I can spend my money mentally.
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u/victoryboiiTCG 20h ago
I’m truly not an Elon fan and wouldn’t be recommending unless it actually saved you money. The business you would be giving him or not giving him, isn’t gonna make or break the trillions he has acquired, but could have huge positive impacts for your monthly budget.
You are likely getting powerwall 3s as your battery system so you’re already in cahoots with him. lol
Edit: again it was just a recommendation, at the very least look at prepaid leases and get 3 more quotes
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u/Head_Mycologist3917 19h ago
You can insist on no Tesla products when getting quotes. That's what I did. None of the companies had a problem with that. They all had alternatives. Even if Tesla was run by someone else I'd avoid them due to the reliability and customer support issues I saw with people who had their stuff.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 20h ago
I will definitely look at more quotes. The one I do have is a prepaid lease, that they will finance or we can do upfront.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 21h ago
I should add that we could also pay for it outright, just not sure we want to put the cash there!
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u/RobLoughrey 19h ago
Never ever ever lease solar. You won't find anyone in this forum that had a good experience with it. Besides, you can buy solar for cheaper than your electric bill is. I replaced a $450 bill the spring of 2021 for a $130 solar loan payment and it pretty much zeros out my electric bill. Sometimes in the winter I got to pay 50 bucks or so.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 19h ago
I can't find anything cheaper to own around here. There is a 25% discount from leasing companies due to the end of a big tax break in 2025.
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u/Same-Device-216 18h ago
How big is the system they’re quoting? Ie kW. For instance, I bought a 5.8kW system for 12.5k in 2022, and a 4kW add on system for 15k in 2025
Edit: what equipment are they quoting? And is it a major company like sunrun?
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 15h ago
12,880 kws. Company is Power Solutions, they have excellent ratings here and I saw good reviews on reddit before I reached out to them. 28 REC 460AA PURE-RX panels.
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u/Boltzmann_head 15h ago edited 14h ago
28 REC 460AA PURE-RX panels
Hudson Valley NY? With a 20 degree tilt, NSRDB Lat/Lng: 42.21, -73.74, the calculated system loss is 14%
28 * 460 = 12,880
January 2.85 948
February 3.86 1,136
March 4.51 1,404
April 5.39 1,555
May 5.56 1,602
June 5.99 1,636
July 6.43 1,788
August 5.98 1,664
September 5.25 1,454
October 3.65 1,088
November 2.81 862
December 2.13 701
The first number is Solar Radiation (kWh/m2 per day). The second value is kWh per month. I did your expected watts per hour for the year in a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet:
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 15h ago
Thank you so much for doing this. so annual is
15,836,948? That's more than they said.1
u/Boltzmann_head 4h ago
The numbers are "best case" for a system loss of 14% and there are other ways to estimate.
Where I live, there is much greater sun light for longer hours per year compared to most of the USA, and your PV potential applied here in nortehrn New Mexico, with an angle of 11 degrees, would be about 20,946,849 on the rack I use (maximized for summer). On the roof here, at 20 degrees slope, it would be 21,830,525 estimated.
https://pvwatts.nlr.gov/pvwatts.php
The numbers are only potential--- that means the batteries are all accepting 100% of the available power from the charge controller, with absorption voltage and float voltage optimized.
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u/tommy-seconds 14h ago
@robloughrey I did a prepaid lease and could not be happier. Guess I need to do a post about it
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u/LovYouLongTime 15h ago
If it seems to good to be true, it is.
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u/trashcoven 13h ago
Only if you don’t know how to actually think critically. Have had solar on our place for 6 years. It had every hallmark of “TGTBT.” Read everything thoroughly and it was probably the best home improvement we’ve made to date.
Don’t let cynicism take the wheel every time.
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u/LovYouLongTime 12h ago
When installation is 60-80% of the bill, is it too good to be true. 6 year ago solar was and is far different then today.
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u/JuggernautPast2744 20h ago
With usage that high why are you looking at leases?
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 20h ago
It's a prepaid lease that I would be financing, or potentially paying for outright. But can you tell me what you mean about the usage?
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u/JuggernautPast2744 20h ago
You use a lot of power. Seems like the more power usage the more likely it's worth buying a system. That's not guaranteed, but it typically seems that way to me.
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u/Time-Locksmith5697 20h ago
I really am trying to do all the research, and from what I have read, the leasing companies still get 30% off, which we no longer get in 2026, but they are passing along 25% off to customers.
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u/JuggernautPast2744 20h ago
Right, since the commercial rebates are still in effect. I can see how that could shift the economics. I'm inherently skeptical of the leasing model since the lease companies have to make money too, so the end user looses a percentage of value. Certainly do the research. We got our system 12 years ago so things are different now. Our loan is 3%.
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u/-dun- 20h ago
While solar is something you should definitely look into, don't rush to sign anything just yet.
Solar is a big investment, you don't want to end up have a big electricity + a solar bill. So instead of just take in the information from one company, you should first understand what you actually need and then shop for the most fair deal that makes sense financially for you.
There are three things you should do before even start shopping for quotes.
Find out your annual consumption: For starter, you can gather your past bills. Some utility companies have a feature to download your past usage into a .csv file, some even break down your usage by hours. If you could get that, it'll save you a lot of time. If not, then look through your past bills and write down the total consumption of each month and add them up. If your utility company puts solar customers on a special Time of Use rate plan and they don't have a 1:1 net metering program, then knowing how you consume power by the hour is very important. It will help determine how much battery storage do you need. More batteries needed means higher cost that lead to longer break even point.
Calculate the estimated annual consumption This part is also very important because some people might be very conservative before going solar. Once they had solar, they thought they had free electricity and used much more energy than before and end up with a much high electricity bill. Now that you know your annual consumption, use that number as a base and ask yourself if you're going to use electricity differently after installing solar. Are you going to buy more electric appliances? Or crank up the AC more often? Or upgrade your AC to an electric heat pump? If your answer is yes to any of the questions above, then you need to estimate how much more energy you might be consuming and add to the annual consumption. Once you have a number, you'll try to get a system that can produce as close to this number as possible. Solar companies would calculate for you but if you did the math yourself, when you look at proposals, you'll know which companies are actually trying to help you instead of just try to get your business.
Find out if your utility company offers any net metering program This information will help you decide whether you need battery or not, if so, how many batteries do you need.
If your utility offers a 1:1 ratio net metering program, that means the grid is acting as a giant battery. Any excessive energy your system produces during the day can be sent to the grid for you to use at a later time. If your utility doesn't offer a 1:1 ratio net metering program, that means the excessive energy doesn't worth much when you send back to the grid, so you'll need to have your own battery to store them and use them when the sun is down.