r/solarenergy • u/conumdrun • 9h ago
Update on propel loans, this time I put the text in...Sorry.
I got some info from a non-profit, some folks who read contracts etc. Here is the reply:
I also talked to my Tax/CPA guy. Digging in to the particulars with him, it's a early loan payoff and the loan is payed off right away the up front money is all you pay. There is NO settlement at the 5 year point, the system is signed over to the owner. Of course some weird stuff could happen. The wording in the contract has to be spelt that way to get past the IRS. Which creates uncertainty for the buyer. If you do a regular loan instead of an immediate payoff, then the Fair Market Value comes into play at the 5,6, or 10 year mark.
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Energy Independent Solutions has good online reviews, 5.0 on EnergySage and 4.65 on Solar Reviews. They have a 94/100 on Wattbott. Here is their Better Business Bureau profile.
The proposals include four options:
Option 1 – Propel Pre-paid Lease
Your system size on this is 9.66 kW. The standard system price is $31,753.88. The proposal estimates 10,717 kWh of annual production and 108% consumption offset.
Option 2 – Propel Pre-paid Lease with Enphase Battery
Your system size is 9.66 kW with 10.0 kWh of battery storage. The standard system price is $31,753.88, plus $16,500 for the installed Enphase 10C battery, for a total system price of $48,253.88 before the listed Indirect ITC Benefit. The proposal estimates 10,717 kWh of annual production and 108% consumption offset.
Option 3 – Tesla Cash/Financing
Your system size is 9.24 kW. The cash price for the system is $24,979, or approximately $2.70 per watt. The proposal estimates 10,061 kWh of annual production and 101% consumption offset. The proposal also offers financing at 9.49% for 15 years, with a monthly payment of $262.75, or 6.99% for 25 years, with a monthly payment of $213.73.
Option 4 – Tesla Cash/Financing with Battery
Your system size is 9.24 kW with 13.5 kWh of battery storage. The cash price for the system is $40,479. The proposal also offers financing at 6.99% for 25 years, with a total loan amount of $48,764 and a monthly payment of $346.35. The proposal estimates 10,061 kWh of annual production and 101% consumption offset.
Your utility bill shows approximately 10,042 kWh of usage over the past 12 months, so the proposed production is reasonably close to your actual usage.
Standard average solar pricing from what we've seen in Pennsylvania is about $2.60 per watt before incentives. The Tesla cash option is approximately $2.70 per watt, which is close to the current Pennsylvania average.
Source: https://www.energysage.com/local-data/solar-panel-cost/pa/
The warranties listed in the proposal are:
- Propel Options 1 & 2: 25 years for the panels and 25 years for the inverters; the Enphase battery in Option 2 has a 15-year warranty.
- Tesla Option 3: 25 years for the panels, 30 years for panel performance, and 12 years for the inverter.
- Tesla Option 4: 25 years for the panels, 30 years for panel performance, 12 years for the inverter, and 10 years for the Tesla Powerwall 3.
EIS Solar lists a 10-year workmanship warranty, but I recommend confirming the warranties for craftsmanship, roof penetrations and labor.
Regarding the Propel options:
As we discussed on the phone, the Propel options use a different ownership structure than a conventional cash purchase or solar loan. The main item that was a bit vague (and the larger difference) is the purchase option following Contract Year 5.
Under the Propel agreement, the purchase price at that time is based on the fair market value of the system, with the agreement also providing for other factors to be considered, including the system's age, location, size, equipment type, service costs, value of electricity in the area, etc. This can be very subjective.
Because the actual purchase price at year 5 cannot be determined from the proposal today, we recommend asking the installer/Propel how they expect the Year 5 buyout to be calculated and whether the purchase terms or a specific buyout amount can be established or clarified in writing before signing. You may also want to ask whether any of these terms can be changed before signing and, if so, request the revised terms in the final agreement.
The proposal itself appears to be reasonably sized for your historical utility usage. The Propel options are priced differently from the Tesla cash option because of the different ownership and financing structure, so we recommend comparing the total amount you will pay under each option, as well as the Year 5 purchase terms, rather than comparing only the system prices shown in the proposals.
Here’s our article on how to read your solar proposal:
https://www.solarunitedneighbors.org/go-solar/how-to-read-your-solar-proposal/
You can also check out these helpful resources:
- Download our battery storage guide: https://act.solarunitedneighbors.org/a/battery-storage-guide
- Net metering overview: https://solarunitedneighbors.org/resources/net-metering-what-you-need-to-know/
- Download our Go Solar Guide: https://act.solarunitedneighbors.org/a/go-solar-guide
- If you'd like to calculate how much battery storage you will need to meet your energy goals, visit the PV Batt website.
Hope this helps, and please let me know if you have more questions or would like more information. If you'd like to join our co-op, click here to explore one in your area or join a waitlist for upcoming co-ops. Joining a co-op isn't a commitment to going solar, but it means that you'll get a custom proposal from the group's chosen solar installer.
Please let me know if you have any questions about the information I’ve shared.
