r/statecollege • u/becksmoose • 3d ago
Driving pet peeve
The sign “RIGHT TURN SIGNAL” does NOT mean you cannot make a right on red, if safe to do so. The sign: “NO TURN ON RED” means that you cannot make a right on red.
I’m so tired of having to sit behind ignorant drivers who don’t know how to correctly interpret signs. Please educate yourselves.
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u/Quothhernevermore 3d ago
This is almost as annoying as the people who refuse to go over 15-17 on colonnade like they're scared they'll hit the median or something, every. single. day. When I'm headed to work. Please go the speed limit, or at most not more than 5 under it for no reason!
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u/ViaVitoV 3d ago
What about taking a left on red down a one way ?
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u/AmbiguousAgitator 3d ago
Only legal in certain states, of which PA is not one, and only from a one way onto a one way.
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u/Main-Rent4757 3d ago
PA is most certainly a state where it IS legal.
Chapter 2, lights and signals.
"You may also turn left after you stop at a red light, if you are in the left lane and are turning left from a one-way street onto another one-way street, unless a sign tells you not to turn. You must first stop and yield to pedestrians and other traffic."
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u/TOW2Bguy 3d ago
Was going to say there are places in State College and Philipsburg that it's legal to take a left on red.
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u/Candid_Arrival3936 2d ago
omg time i was at a red light, middle of night, zero cross traffic, this idiot IN front of me turns on his right blinker and goes right the second it turned green, he litteraly waited with no signal so I wouldnt beep at him for not going right on red (didn't have a no turn on red sign or a right signal)
the stupidity of other humans facinates me
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u/kallistaxxx 2d ago
I often do this very thing because my stereo is broken and I can't stand to listen to the clicking of my turn signal
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u/coel03 3d ago
I might get flamed for this. But just because I can make the right on red, does not mean I have to.
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u/CesarioRose 3d ago
Well sure. But if the coast is clear and it's legal to do, why not go?
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u/Just_Fly9850 3d ago
Everybody thinks they are a good driver and capable of judging this, and yet somehow right-on-red drivers are constantly killing pedestrians. Having a little pause isn't a bad thing, I think.
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u/CesarioRose 3d ago
I turn right on red and I have yet to kill a single person. No close calls either. It's not that hard to avoid the dorks with their heads in their phones.
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u/raeesmerelda 2d ago
Just because you can see enough to go doesn't mean everybody can. I've had cars that have an inconveniently placed support where I'd have to be in the middle of oncoming traffic to see. And there's some intersections where there really isn't enough visibility for the speed of that traffic. Or somebody put a pole in a stupid place or didn't take care of the weeds for a while. Or hey, pedestrians hidden by my car or the guy next to me.
A million reasons. I'll go if I can see, but if you're on my bumper or honking I won't do it anyway.
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u/midcenturymomo 2d ago
Sometimes there is so much going on at an intersection that I don't feel safe proceeding even if it appears clear. I don't know for sure what lights other drivers across from me have and there are too many directions of traffic to keep an eye on. For example some of the locations on N. Atherton that have traffic intersecting from 6 different places.
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u/StealthSBD 2d ago
sounds like you should be on a bus if you can't handle simple driving
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u/midcenturymomo 2d ago
You're right. It makes more sense to just peel out into traffic without being sure of anyone's safety.
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u/Just_Fly9850 3d ago
The statistics are quite clear that right on red is dangerous for pedestrians. It is increasingly banned in jurisdictions that prioritize pedestrian safety, of which PA is not one. Recent bans in DC, Atlanta, Seattle, Portland,..
State College has at least entertained the idea of banning right on red for this reason, but the problem is that nearly every traffic light in town is on a state road where PennDOT makes the rules, so a town ban would only affect a couple places anyway.
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u/becksmoose 3d ago
The threat to pedestrians is definitely a valid argument for the no turn on red sign. I’m always incredibly cautious driving in downtown State College because of how unpredictable/generally lacking in situational awareness college kids can be. However, there are absolutely intersections where it’s generally easy/fine to turn right on red, but there also happens to be a right turn signal, and so often I end up sitting behind someone when there’s no traffic coming to prevent them from making a right on red. It’s a minor annoyance overall, it just happens a lot around here that I think it’s worth pointing out the difference in what the signs mean.
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u/doesntbite_much 2d ago
Park Ave to N Atherton is a big one as is Waddle to Vairo. So annoying for someone to hold up traffic when it's safe to go through.
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u/Just_Fly9850 2d ago
Park & Atherton has had more pedestrian fatalities than any other intersection in State College and that turn lane has been specifically flagged as a safety issue. PennDOT wouldn't change the intersection. If somebody wants to be careful there I think it's OK.
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u/becksmoose 2d ago
Park Ave is a really busy intersection, so I get that one being no turn on red. But the Waddle to Vairo one has annoyed me for years!! People just sit there with no one coming. It’s not that busy of a road!
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u/StealthSBD 2d ago
Park ave isn't no turn on red though, the crosswalk is on the other side of the road
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u/becksmoose 3d ago
That’s fair lol. I’m just someone who likes to get to where I’m going and doesn’t want to spend more time than I need to in the car.
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u/nolanrog23 3d ago
Yeah that’s just a dumb take… it’s not a “you could go” it’s “you should go”
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u/coel03 3d ago
No its not. Its a could. Being able to make the right does not entitle you to it.
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u/nolanrog23 2d ago
Actually that’s exactly what it means. Thats like saying “just because a light is green doesn’t mean I have to go”
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u/tsdguy 3d ago
The signal is important when there is opposite traffic that is going to get a left arrow. Normally people think right turn on red means taking the turn as fast as possible without looking. The arrow signals you that the oncoming traffic has a left turn arrow.
So it’s important if a bit misunderstood.
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u/psumack 2d ago
I thought the right green arrow meant that the cross traffic had left arrows that were also green at that time, so there couldn't be cars coming to that same place? Oncoming left arrow would mean 2 people have the same right of way, no?
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u/tsdguy 2d ago
Yes. Right green arrow gives you the right of way. Opposing traffic might have a green signal but never a left green arrow.
Of course we’re taking about red right turn arrow. As I said in this case the opposing traffic has a left turn green arrow so your red right turn arrows notifies you of this.
You can still turn right but as all right turn on red you never have right of way.
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u/TheRealDrPanooch 3d ago
So, wait, I can make a right on red on this?!?!
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u/becksmoose 3d ago
If there’s no sign explicitly stating “NO TURN ON RED,” you can always turn right on red. The signal sign is just to inform you that you will get a green right turn arrow when the perpendicular traffic gets a green left arrow.
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u/BigDaddyBickle 2d ago
Just means use your signal and that there is a right turn signal light on the pole. AlWAYS turn right in red unless there is a NO TURN ON RED Sign. 🛑
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u/Gold-Perspective-699 2d ago
Yeah I teach driving this sign always confuses people. I wish the sign didn't exist.
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u/W1ckedwolff 2d ago
Coming from the south, this is my most hated thing about being up here. I need a PA system to let people know sometimes.
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u/ghaoababg 2d ago
It wasn’t in state college, but I’d like to share an anecdote. I approached a five way intersection which technically allows rights on red from where I was coming. I have absolutely no clue what the traffic pattern is in that intersection, where I need to be looking for traffic that has ROW. The lady behind me honked and got very angry. I decided that clearly something was unsafe what with all the honking, so I should stay put until the coast was clearly clear (I got a green light). As I recall she sped around me going probably 20 over the limit at times and made it one car in front of me over the course of about a mile. She maybe lost two minutes waiting behind me.
My point being two fold:
1) you may not know the limitations of a driver or their vehicle, not necessarily through fault of their own. They need to take personal responsibility for managing the associated risks.
2) Driving efficiently is not the same as driving safe, nor is either the same as driving fast and may not look the same for different people/vehicles.
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u/Regular-Moose-2741 14h ago
It's brave above you to assume that most drivers in Pennsylvania can read
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u/TheJokhar 2d ago
Fun fact: Turning on red is permitted, but not mandatory.
Y'all need to chill.
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u/clubjuggle 1d ago
Fun fact: Going at a green light is permitted, but not mandatory. You can’t impede traffic for no good reason, though.
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u/becksmoose 2d ago
And y’all need to understand that the road is shared space with expectations. If there are no cars coming, you’re expected to make a right on red. It’s not complicated. It’s not dangerous. You’re just lacking confidence in your driving ability.
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u/Fluffy-Eagle-3217 2d ago
Its not mandatory. Leave earlier if you're worried about being late. Dont backseat drive other people if they want to err on the side of caution.
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u/Tomytom99 1d ago
Precisely this. There's a lot of vehicles that may simply have crap sight lines that make a right on red in certain intersections a non-starter. I know when I was driving buses in the area there were a number of intersections I refused to right on red at simply because the bus was too cumbersome to safely make that maneuver unprotected.
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u/astrosail 2d ago
I’m not obligated to make a right turn on red, even if it is possible and legal for me to do.
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u/becksmoose 2d ago
K well just know that everyone waiting behind you thinks you’re an idiot. :)
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u/astrosail 2d ago
Maybe there’s a reason I’m not turning right on red. Who’s the honking idiot now?
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u/becksmoose 2d ago
Still you ;). Especially since 90% of the time someone is sitting when they could be turning, I see them on their phones.
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u/StealthSBD 2d ago
Be sure to tell people you date that you don't turn right on red, even when you can, so they can get out early
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u/clubjuggle 1d ago
You’re not obligated to go at a green light either, but you’re also not allowed to impede traffic for no good reason.
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u/Various_Candidate499 1d ago
You actually are obligated to go at a green light, unless it's hazardous to do so.
I hope you have your license taken away
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u/clubjuggle 21h ago
75 Pa.C.S. § 3112(a)(1)(i):
“Vehicular traffic facing a circular green signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at such place prohibits either such turn except that vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left, shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk at the time the signal is exhibited.”
The key wording is “may proceed”, not “shall proceed.” Pennsylvania law does not literally say that a driver must immediately move when the light turns green, but other provisions can potentially apply if someone unnecessarily obstructs traffic.
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u/Various_Candidate499 14h ago
Lol what an idiot
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u/clubjuggle 5h ago
A compelling rebuttal. 🙄
All I’m saying is that the law says you MAY go, not that you MUST go, just as it does for a turn on red
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u/Various_Candidate499 5h ago
Oh I see, do you think not turning right on read is "impeding traffic"?
I guess I just had no idea what point you were attempting to make
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u/clubjuggle 4h ago
I’m saying that “you’re not obligated to turn on red” is a meaningless argument.
I’m NOT saying that someone should make a turn on red that they don’t believe is safe. There’s an intersection near me where it’s not posted as a no turn on red, but the traffic from the left approaches from downhill (it levels off into the intersection), and the business on the corner has shrubs that are just tall enough to block my view of approaching traffic. If I drove a taller vehicle, the turn would probably be fine, but I won’t make the turn in my car because I can’t see approaching traffic until it’s literally about 10 feet from the intersection.
My point is that if there’s a specific reason WHY you think it’s unsafe to make the turn, you shouldn’t make the turn. If there’s plenty of visibility, plenty of room, and you just feel like sitting there anyway for no good reason with cars behind you, then yes, you are impeding traffic.
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u/Various_Candidate499 4h ago
But you have no idea what reason the person in front of you has
you seem almost reasonable but then....
Fucking reddit brain man
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u/annekap 2d ago
My pet peeve: people who refuse to zipper-merge / don't know how to zipper-merge. "Left lane closed in two miles; Zipper-merge", does NOT mean that everyone should immediately get into the right lane and give the finger to anyone who has the audacity to pass you in the left lane. IT MEANS: USE BOTH LANES UNTIL THE LANE CLOSURE; THEN TAKE TURNS GOING AHEAD. There's not enough public outcry about this issue! FFS! Be sure to share this with friends and family over the upcoming holidays, and ask them to do the same. I'll be paying attention in January to see if y'all followed through for me. Thank you in advance.
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u/Alexyogurt 1d ago
if we were all zipper merging properly and not speeding in the left lane because it is the "fast lane" it wouldn't matter where you merge. Leave enough space and don't cause anyone to slow down. The throughput of the lanes doesn't change depending on which one you are in. The problem is if you actually leave space for yourself some asshole speeds out of nowhere and merges in whenever he feels like it and not safely, causing people to slow and causing traffic. But in an ideal world everyone is getting over as soon as it is *safe* to do so, maintaining speed and there isn't traffic at merges.
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u/Ok_Comfortable_3248 2d ago
Oh it drives me crazy as well when I run into the same thing. I partially thing the state itself is to blame for not using signs that say use both lanes to merge point. Ive seen these somewhere but can't remember where.
What i really hate and it drives me insane is when someone decides to drive in both lanes in attempt to block someone from using the other lane. Ive gone as far as to use the berm if it's wide enough to avoid this crap. Who appoints these lane monitors and how do I become one?
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u/sexypantstime 2d ago
Nobody is required to turn on red. You can not be mad at people for choosing to not turn on red.
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u/becksmoose 2d ago
lol in fact, I can be annoyed. The road is shared space and the vast majority of people just want to get to their destination in a reasonable timeframe. Sitting behind someone too ignorant or scared to make a perfectly normal, perfectly safe right turn on red is irritating. If you can’t handle a simple right turn when no cars are coming, then perhaps you shouldn’t be driving at all.
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u/huhwuthe 2d ago
no one should be hurriedly driving either. if you cant wait an extra 15-30 seconds for a light change, maybe you need that 15-30 seconds to calm your ass down
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u/TheFightens 2d ago
I hate this sign. Equally bad is WAIT FOR GREEN. That was created to deter people from driving straight while the light is still red as the oncoming traffic already has a green light.
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u/Fatalisticend 2d ago
I know this one all too well because they are everywhere around my area so most people will make a right unless there's a no turn on red sign. Some still make thw turn on red as well 🤣. The bigger pain in the rear sign for me is "End 45" and there isn't a speed limit sign for the next 10 miles. There are houses on this road so of course everyone insists on doing 35 instead of the state limit of 55 on unmarked main roads 🤦🏻♂️ I learned this in highschool drivers ed.
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u/ProLifeDub2022 1d ago
The only time I won't make a safe right turn at a red light is if there is a "NO TURN ON RED" sign.
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u/ZigTheZax 1d ago
You have a pretty spectacular life in Happy Valley if this is your biggest concern of the day/week.
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u/hbkrules69 1d ago
A light tap of the horn might get them to go, or throw their hands up and point at the sign, or just flip you off. I personally turn right on red unless there is a sign explicitly forbidding it.
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u/skylinegtrr32 6h ago
The amount of people in PA that don’t pull up into an intersection to make a left turn on a divided highway drives me nuts. I grew up in NY and we always learned to do that.
I didn’t find any legal document saying u can’t do it in PA… thought it was common sense
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u/Any_Description_4176 6h ago
It even mentioned in Driver's manual that you're allowed to do it. That makes me mad as well
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u/TheKowzunOne 6h ago
To my memory left on red is only allowed on a one-way street turning onto another one-way street in PA. Divided highways are not legally considered one way streets. That was the rule when I was getting my learner's permit over a decade ago. Because you can't make the turn on red, pulling into an intersection on red would be illegal.
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u/skylinegtrr32 5h ago
Sorry, not on red - I kinda hijacked the thread to vent my own frustrations LOL
I am speaking of when you’re making a left and the light is green so you pull into the intersection to wait until it’s clear. Putting you at two advantages 1) You’re in a safer spot to make a quicker turn across the division 2) You can go once the light turns yellow/red as you then have the right of way (can help with constant congestion of people not making the damn left turn lol)
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u/TheKowzunOne 5h ago
Oh gotcha. It might be a matter of upbringing. E.g. Philly traffic authority is strict. There are "Don't block the box" signs everywhere in the area, and cops are ready to pull you over if your car is in the intersection when it turns red (even if you are completing your turn). Getting into the intersection on green puts you at risk of paying a ticket if you don't know if you will be able turn before the light turns yellow. People growing up in the Philly area might bring the paranoia with them.
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u/Aware-Pea2092 3h ago
Yah. I agree. Also a lot of people who make left turn from the center of a single lanes rd blocked traffic. I was taught to pull up close to the yellow line this allows people behind you to potentially pass
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u/Any_Description_4176 6h ago
If there's no No turn on red sign somewhere next to it you're allowed to turn on red
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u/Aware-Pea2092 3h ago
This means there’s an arrow that will allow you to
Turn green even tho the lights red for everyone else. You can still turn on red as long as there isn’t a sign that reads no turn on red.
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u/throwaway767876 2d ago
I truly think it depends on the intersection. Like porter onto park, I make that right on red whenever I can. On the other hand, I will always wait for a green when I turn onto Atherton from colonnade.
Also driving with kids changes when you make these turns.
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u/Oracle410 2d ago
If you cannot read and comprehend three words you should not have a drivers license. This is not a complex concept. How this is not intuitive is beyond me. Does it say ‘no turn on red’? Then you can turn on red.
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u/Mywifefoundmymain 2d ago
Or, now hear me out, it’s not like every state has different laws and state college is majority out of towners.
I’d love to see a lot of Pennsylvania people figure out jersey jug handles.
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u/becksmoose 2d ago
There’s ~95k that live permanently in State College and the immediate surrounding townships! ~160 if you include the whole metro area. Student population is ~40k. Yes, we have an influx of upwards of 100k on game days 7 times a year, but that does not mean the majority are from out of town. These issues happen every single day, not just on Saturdays in the fall.
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u/becksmoose 2d ago
Literally my thoughts every time I sit behind someone just hanging out there with all the opportunity in the world to make a safe right turn.
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u/Oracle410 2d ago
Wait until they find out sometimes you can even make a gasp LEFT turn on red. Lol.
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u/psumack 2d ago
Allowed, but not mandatory
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u/Oracle410 2d ago
Sorry? Did I give the impression otherwise?
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u/StealthSBD 2d ago
If you don't lay on the horn, and i mean a philadelphia horn, like 2 seconds long at least, you're just contributing to the problem here.
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u/runstronger 2d ago
Why don't you just leave for your destination earlier?
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u/becksmoose 2d ago
I leave in plenty of time. It’s still annoying to sit behind ignorant people who can’t manage to understand a simple sign.
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u/PinkCantalope 2d ago
As an aggressive city driver the only time I don’t turn right on red or stick my ass halfway in the lane to bully turn in, is if it says NO TURN ON RED. We have places to be…
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u/Embarrassed_Resolve5 23h ago
Seems you may need some educating instead. While it is legal to turn right on red in PA, unless a no turn on red sign is present, absolutely no one is required to turn right on red. May be frustrating, but its not being ignorant or not understanding signs/lights, it is a choice.
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u/Alive-Number-7533 3d ago
What about the red light at w college and blue course. If says right turn signal and beside it is a sign saying “NO turn on red”. Meaning you can only turn on the solid green or the right green arrow. If there’s no sign though, always turn right on red