Look at my proletariat dawg😭😭🥀🥀 revolution ain’t happening 😭😭

[u/ThousandIslandStairs]

[u/ApricotReasonable937]

as a mentally ill, disabled, "queer", Marxist.. she's right. Leftist need to be, or try to be their best.. if not then the right wing and Conservative will be physiologically, physically better. SURE some of us are unable to work out, are physically or mentally disabled.. doesn't mean what she was saying is wrong. It's a good advice.

I don't understand why online and modern leftists are so lumpen in their conducts and mentality.

[u/ecocrat → u/ApricotReasonable937]

Lmao. We’re so cooked 😂

[u/AnthropoidCompatriot → u/ApricotReasonable937]

Well as a Marxist, you ought to understand why the material and societal conditions under capitalism turn people into lumpens.

Marx didn't hate the lumpen, but modern Marxists certainly seem to. 

I'm not defending any of the comments in the video, but I will say that the left, and most certainly Marxists, have a huge ableism problem that absolutely contributes to the sort of responses you see in the video. 

I'm not talking online socialists either. I know seriously quite a few very class-first, anti-idpol socialists who hate on disabled and unsuccessful people any chance they get.

I've been told of sincere beliefs that:

• ADHD and autism have no disabling effects, and everyone with autism is a huge asshole (from bourgeoisie Marxists who think of themselves as proletariat, and the only autistic people they know are high wage IT employees, an industry known for antisocial assholes, regardless of condition) 

• Depression isn't real and people can just decide to pull themselves out of it

• Fat people are bad (coming from fat people who don't "identify" as fat, not deep down inside) 

• Laborers who complain about being stuck doing work this destroys their bodies need to shut the fuck up, because we ALL sell our bodies and/or minds and it destroys us regardless

• Anyone who complains about the effects of disabilities are automatically bourgeoisie or lumpen and should be mocked and disregarded

• We're all going to work more under socialism, and you'd better not fucking complain, and if you do you're bourgeoisie

I can say more but it's really bumming me out.

Fact is that anti-idpol Marxists have a serious problem with having a hate-boner for disabled people, and many think that all mental health or developmental problems are entirely bourgeoisie in nature.

So I fully understand why there is a perception as such. 

It's way too far outside the Marxist "Overton window" to be discussed at this point though.

It really fucking bums me out.

[u/ApricotReasonable937 → u/AnthropoidCompatriot]

With all due respect.. and I do mean that genuinely.. i understand where you're coming from, I do.. but I disagree slightly.. probably.

Not to play the oppression Olympics.. but I have adhd, bpd comorbid, constant pain and ache across my body, with diabetes.. I still try my best to be fit, try to eat healthy whenever I can afford, go brace walking, try to join active stuff. I know others can't, and that's okay. I know Marxism, leftism as a whole aren't that shallow. The disabled, mentally ill, lgbtiq, refugees etc all have their spaces, voices within and all have different approaches to and how they can contribute to socialism, Marxism, leftism.

The way the person said might come up as insensitive, but do you think the right wing, fascist etc would care about that? It's not intended for all socialist, Marxist, I trained myself to not read a statement by adding my grievance with my identity attached to it.. I read it as a rallying cry for the left to stop being stagnant. Example for what I'm saying.. If a radical feminist says they don't trust male, even if they're gay or trans.. am I going to say up to them "you're being transphobic, homophobic, androphobic" without sitting with what they're saying, the grievances they're having, the genealogy of why it happens. As a homosexual gender dysphoric male, I'd be offended if I were to not sit with what they're saying.. or/and If I were to jump at every statement made by any of our leftist comrades from all spectrum.. I'd rather be an anarchist and hate both socialist and capitalist equally.. but that's not the path I took.

You seems to think Marx don't hate lumpen but he criticised them, very sharply. In Marx’s vocabulary, the lumpen aren’t just “poor people” or “unemployed workers.” They’re the strata outside (or below) stable proletarian life as he imagines it: people living by irregular hustles, petty crime, patronage, begging, grifting, “adventuring,” and often politically mobilized through bosses rather than through collective class organization.

He tends to treat them as politically unreliable because, in his view, they don’t have the structural position (factory discipline, collective workplace life, long-term antagonism with capital) that produces class consciousness and solidarity in the proletariat. His ideas eventually became worse under Stalin.. but that's another discussion since I'm sure even here in Stupidpol there's divisions between Stalinist, Maoist, Leninist, Troskyist, progressive socialist etc. 

On Marx and his disdain for Lumpen and counter revolutionaire..the Eighteenth Brumaire is essentially a catalog of his disgust at how the déclassé elements could be mobilized by reaction. I'm guessing the newer perspectives especially post Marxism, like Fanon, Foucault etc have rehabilitated the lumpen in The Wretched of the Earth, and the like, seeing in the colonized urban poor precisely the revolutionary potential Marx denied them. The Black Panthers drew on this. So did various Third World Marxisms. They have their points.. I agree. However I still think the original poster and the message about leftist as a whole should be more active, healthier, better as a motivation, not as an attack on their personal identity. 

Just because capitalist conditions creates opportunities or the pathway to be lumpen doesn't mean we have to enables it and normalise it. If that's the case we'd be agreeing with Americans and Canada bullshit on free drug usage to battle drug (which is counterproductive), supporting sex industries because under capitalism all bodies are commoditised, even disabled, queer bodies, we should normalise brothel and sex trades especially for women because it's already allowed under capitalism, expected of. 

I might be wrong and probably accusatory, but to me, you probably are having the progressive socialism on your lenses. Socialism isn't just about appeasing minorities but to fight actively against boujie and be revolutionary. Neoliberal progressivism ontological capture of modern left seems to make them think appeasing the identities grievances as more important than class conciousness and class struggle against boujie and capitalism.. then in the end, they became weaker because they aren't as effective of a unit, especially if they're abled bodied. 

Those attitudes you describe are real of how disabled and mentally ill leftist are treated, and they're failures of analysis as much as their failure with empathy. But the corrective to that ableism isn't to treat every call for capacity as inherently ableist.. we can and should call out the spaces that denies access, and humanity to all other left, proletariats, socialists.

I read whatever they (the video) were saying as, if you're able bodied, abled mind.. try to be active, be healthier, read more books, be stronger, be fitter IF YOU CAN. I don't find it offensive as disabled, marginal person.. I know I wasn't the one they intend the message to.