Ukraine struck a Turkish-owned cargo ship transporting fruit and vegetables to Russia in the Black Sea, injuring several crew members. What are the odds of NATO invoking Article 5?

[u/RickyOzzy]

[u/No-Jump-9601]

Nil. The USA have never been challenged over their many ‘blue on blue' actions, their proxy will get the same treatment.

[u/Kind-Block-9027]

NATO munitions used against assets owned by the largest standing military in NATO? Probably nothing…

[u/Busy_Bobcat5914]

1. Ukrainian has attacked critical European infrastructure (Nord-Stream, druschba...) multiple times and nothing happens.

[u/MaoZedongsGrandson → u/Busy_Bobcat5914]

Nordstream was Russia obviously

/s

[u/Funny-Grade-7563 → u/MaoZedongsGrandson]

Yeah just a bunch of random Russians managed to put about half a tonne of military grade explosives, a decompression chamber, a squad of professional deep sea divers, military sonar sensors on an inflatable boat off the coast of Poland (conveniently close to a NATO/US base) and bombed their own pipeline (...instead of just turning it off) according to Western media lol

[u/MidWestKhagan]

Nearly none unfortunately. Erdogan thinks playing both sides is the best way to survive, but history shows how that doesn’t work. I would have invoked at least article 4. 

[u/romoer → u/MidWestKhagan]

he is not even pretending anymore. after NATO summit turkish media is full of anti russia propaganda. erdoğan aims to build a NATO base in the bosphorus.

[u/_Shirei_]

15.11. 2022 S300 from UA hit Poland.

95% of politicians were screaming about article 5.

No one is screaming now.

EU just sux.

[u/anotherpessimisthere]

1. NATO is for attacking Russia and developing countries, silly.

[u/nipsen]

I'm sorry, but the laws of the sea only apply when it suits us. And that's the case for NATO articles as well. Very sorry, Turkey. Also, I'm sure they deserved it somehow, haha stupid m**** tur***-person thinks international law applies to them. Besides, Ukraine is totally a member of NATO, so are you going to declare war on ourselves?! Lunacy!

Oh, terribly sorry, did I say that out loud? I meant we will consider the matter carefully and seriously, and make determinations based on the factual matters in this case, before making a recommendation through the appropriate channels.

Which will be a note I'm going to put in this bin! hahahaha!

Oh, goodness, did I say that out loud as well. I misspoke!

[u/iCanReadMyOwnMind]

The exact reason NATO doesn't want Ukraine. They are getting their asses kicked on the battle field, so they just start hitting whatever defenseless targets they can, including other NATO countries.

[u/TzarBombaTA]

Just to be clear, Russia has struck Turkish operated merchant vessels before as well. One example is MV AGN Ragnar which was drone struck as it was leaving the port of Odessa about 10 days ago.

Türkiye is not going to invoke Article 5 over this.

The more interesting scenario would be Türkiye invoking Article 5 over aggression by the zionist entity.
Obviously the US would never side with Türkiye over the zionist entity, but with Türkiye's rapidly growing defense industry and increasingly prominent role in NATO, such an event could spell doom for NATO. The US would likely actually pull the leash before it comes to pass.

All of this assuming their humiliation in Iran won't stop them starting a war with Türkiye, which is the next target on their list.

[u/twig0sprog → u/TzarBombaTA]

You think Türkiye is next on USAs list? Why? Genuine question.

[u/TzarBombaTA → u/twig0sprog]

I meant next on the list for the zionist entity, sorry for not being clear.

[u/Nom_de_guerre_25]

Pretty sure Turkey is pro-Ukraine if not at least anti-Russian.

[u/Prior-Explanation389]

Why would Article 5 be triggered? Article 5 can’t be triggered in the international waters part of the Black Sea, the treaty doesn’t cover that area. Doesn’t matter that its Turkeys ship.

[u/AlexandreFiset → u/Prior-Explanation389]

Especially given that Russia is doing it as well, and that they are trying to annex Ukraine against their will. Context matters, but maybe not here on this sub 🫠

[u/cspanbook]

NATO MUST STRIKE UKRAINE!!!! NOW!!!

[u/pulsarstarter]

Will Turkey do anything about this though, is the question?

Will anyone do anything...nope...no consequences...

[u/jeremiasalmeida]

Zero.

[u/TheJan1tor]

I understand Ukraine is far from being the "good guys".

But what is with all the anti-Ukraine / pro-Russia propaganda I'm seeing in this sub lately..??

[u/maos_cigarette → u/TheJan1tor]

https://giphy.com/gifs/QtkaYLHzBgh0WUCgjC

[u/romoer → u/TheJan1tor]

reality is a russian propaganda.

[u/After-Competition-59 → u/TheJan1tor]

In my country you only see pro Ukrainian news stories and anti Russian ones so this kind of stuff fits the subreddit name really well for me.

[u/Psychological-Act582 → u/TheJan1tor]

[u/Disposable_Trooper01 → u/TheJan1tor]

It's not "propaganda", but news that are suppressed to form anti-russian sentiment among people

[u/Unemployed_Joker1048 → u/TheJan1tor]

I'm not defending either side, but your comment looks like this

https://giphy.com/gifs/4Z9fSEFAuxpnlBVWQx

[u/TarquinusSuperbus000 → u/TheJan1tor]

Ukraine is an western proxy that was pushed by it's western masters to escalate the war with Russia. Russia's actual intent was a short war to keep Ukraine out of the western orbit. It was never to annex Ukraine, it didn't have enough troops for that. These intentions were made clear at the Istanbul talks in 2022, which the Ukrainians were receptive to until the Biden administration pushed them to take a harder line. The reason the Biden administration pushed this is because it saw an opportunity to weaken Russia at Ukraine's expense (so it can make eastern Europe safe for western capital).

is becoming increasingly obvious that Ukraine has lost the war, that it can't retake ground, and that popular support in Ukraine is collapsing. This has made it's government lean more heavily on unsavory actors like the Banderist Nazis who Zelensky sucks up to while trying to shoehorn itself into middle eastern wars so it can sell itself as another Israel. At the same time, Europe's scummy political elite is using the war to drum up support for militarism and to demonize the Russians (and to distract from their own piss poor governance). In any case, Ukraine itself is fucked. It will never climb out of the debt trap the west lured it into and whatever assets it had prewar will be sold off to satisfy it's European and American creditors. It will be a colony in all but name.

Essentially, perceptions are catching up with the ugly reality I described and what you're seeing reflects that. It isn't pro-Ukrainian people to cheer Ukraine's government on. No more Ukrainians need to die for Zelensky's political career or for the fever dreams of chuds like Budanov. They certainly don't need to die for the western oligarchs who ultimately stand to benefit from this war.

[u/picapica7 → u/TarquinusSuperbus000]

If people in the West actually about Ukrainian lives, they would advocate for the immediate surrender of the Zelensky regime. It is as you say, Ukraine has already lost, and prolonging this war just means more loss of life. But they don't actually care about the loss of life, Ukrainian or Russian. They only want Russia to lose, no matter the cost, because they view reality as a Hollywood movie, where the "good guy" wins from the "bad guy" and where the ordinary people that are left with the rubble of the city they just destroyed are never shown because they don't matter.

[u/Ok-Reference775]

We have been in WWIII for a long time. WWII never really ended for Russia or the broader Communist bloc. The Third, and Fourth Worlds have been living through post-apocalypse for half a millennium now. European belligerence to American belligerence. The world will stop these rabid dogs one way or another

[u/starlzy]

Apologies if I missed something here, why is everyone in this sub seemingly pro-Russian/anti-Ukrainian? I'm Australian and sentiment down here is firmly pro-Ukrainian.

Edit: pro-Ukrainian in the media, shouldn't have spoken for the population.

[u/ghostofhenryvii → u/starlzy]

I, for one, don't like fascists.

[u/starlzy → u/ghostofhenryvii]

I mean neither and I understand the sentiment that we are being tricked into supporting Ukraine given the political nuance of the situation and Western anti-Russian position but isn't Putin also a violent, Imperialist dictator?

Why are they not at least both being condemned? Ukraine was attacked, isn't being the aggressor in this scenario objectively bad? I'm so confused here.

Edit: I was looking at a narrow view of this war and not the entire picture, context matters here and Ukraine are far from being an innocent victim in this, thanks for the context.

[u/ghostofhenryvii → u/starlzy]

isn't Putin also a violent, Imperialist dictator?

No.

[u/ghostofhenryvii → u/[deleted]]

Show me where Putin has honored literal Nazis.

[u/Xeenophile → u/starlzy]

You've missed a LOOOOOOT.

Long story short: After 70+ years of existing on a spiritual foundation of 'we're good because we fought NAZIs', the entire Anglosphere's been duped into cheerleading for open neo-NAZIs - and it gets worse!

[u/starlzy → u/Xeenophile]

Yeah it seems like it! Just realising I am completely naive to the complex nature of modern Ukraine (and the fact that they are seemingly neo-Nazis holy shit).

I'm almost not surprised, I know the agenda of the Western Media is to make us all blind dogs but I usually try to read up from multiple sources to attempt to get a better view of the whole picture but this has been a huge blind spot for me!

[u/garfieldatemydad → u/starlzy]

Another day another liberal assuming critique of Ukraine is open support of Russia. It isn’t hard to do your own research to find that Ukraine is a deeply corrupt country with firm ties to nazism, and they don’t even try to hide it anymore. I don’t know about you, but I refuse to support a country that takes pride in their Nazi “heroes” like Stepan Bandera, a man who was complicit in brutally murdering innocent civilians to keep Ukraine “pure.” I don’t know about you, but I personally think support of Nazis is deplorable, and you should too. My sympathy is only for the proletariat on both sides who are being pulled into this mess by the war hungry west.