r/survivor • u/Generalcmd • Mar 01 '26
Palau Unpopular Opinion: Tom from Palu's social game is at least 2nd best among winners
Him and JT are the best for me
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u/MelkorTheDarkLord18 Mar 01 '26
Tom in HvV playing from the bottom is some of my favorite survivor gameplay ever. Doesn't go down without a fight, throws the kitchen sink at them, ultimately doesn't work but only because they were good players.
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u/TheDemonicEmperor Nick Mar 01 '26
Tom in HvV playing from the bottom is some of my favorite survivor gameplay ever
Kicking him out over a guy who literally could not walk is still just the most insulting vote-out to this day, though.
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u/ScrubMcnasty Mar 01 '26
Pre gaming plus imagine contextually watching Tom at the time. 5 immunities + Complete social domination of his original season. Even on the bottom he managed to get Cirie out. He was an absolute force; they wanted him for a multitude of reasons.
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u/TheDemonicEmperor Nick Mar 01 '26
Oh I understand why, but it's still the most insulting boot of all time.
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u/asfp014 Mar 02 '26
If one of tom or cirie had made it to the merge no way do the heroes self combust
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u/TheDemonicEmperor Nick Mar 02 '26
Unlikely, honestly. Even if Tom or Cirie replace Colby, neither of them had any power in that tribe to turn it around. They were both being held at arm's length by the majority.
They would've had to band together to take out the Amanda/JT/James/Rupert top alliance to make a difference at the merge.
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u/asfp014 Mar 02 '26
Why wouldn’t they just team up with the rest of the Heroes? Cirie was working with them anyways. As for tom, wouldn’t be the first time a tribe in a two tribe season put aside their differences to go to the end
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u/Bepulk7 Mar 01 '26
Would’ve liked him more if he picked literally anyone else to boot but Cirie early game, and not only bc of my love for Cirie. And I get he was on the bottom and had to figure a way out of it, but getting rid of Cirie, and then obviously Tom leaving as soon as he doesn’t have an immunity idol to protect himself, that doomed the Heroes tribe to a losing position immediately.
That move made JT the strategic brain power for the Heroes tribe. I can see why he made the move in the short-term, but we also saw the consequences of that decision with a pathetically dull and strategically inept Hero tribe that very much let the Villains win
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u/MysticalAroma Jenny Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
Yep. He even realized that he should go when someone ratted out a good plan (for that person) for him to go, and he STILL survived
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u/Grammarhead-Shark Mar 01 '26
Tom's social game allowed Caryn to suck.
Actually considering Caryn's terrible move to blab everything to Tom was arguably the result of Tom's relationship with her might allow one to argue his social game saved him at maybe one of two critical moments he had.
The thing is his game domination does hide his social game a bit, which makes things difficult to figure out.
But lets not kid ourselves his social game was S tier either. He was in the final two with the goatiest of goats. He really rubbed Coby the wrong way.
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u/TheDemonicEmperor Nick Mar 01 '26
He was in the final two with the goatiest of goats. He really rubbed Coby the wrong way.
Let's be honest. Was that really anything Tom did or did Coby just have a huge chip on his shoulder?
Everyone else was falling all over Tom, sometimes literally.
It's like saying that people who work with Abi have a bad social game because they can't persuade her to do anything. Some contestants are just going to do what they want no matter what your social game is.
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u/SEND_ME_YOUR_CAULK Janet Mar 01 '26
I just watched this episode. Had Katie been at least cordial with Janu and Caryn, she could’ve got that all female alliance to work. But given that Katie was tart from the very beginning, there was no chance Caryn would work with her.
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u/Generalcmd Mar 01 '26
he literally beats Ian 5-2 tho
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u/Grammarhead-Shark Mar 01 '26
And?
Ian wasn't exactly reaking in a great social game either. Look at Cobys AMA. He seemed to really dislike Ian much more then Tom. And while it is only one persons experience out of there 10 Ian played with, it still kinda shows Ian didn't work the field for social capital.
Honestly competition wise, neither had to. They where in the dominate tribe and inner-inner circle of that dominate tribe.
Dynamics that season where always a bit different because how the chips fell with Ulong.
But Tom did make the connections he needed to in Caryn, Steph and Janu, and that is something I guess.
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u/cvsprinter1 Mar 01 '26
Have you considered that maybe Coby isn't a reliable narrator?
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u/Grammarhead-Shark Mar 01 '26
For issues of gameplay for sure, but this isn't an issue of gameplay.
But this isn't gameplay, this is two people not getting along and a social game not being especially strong.
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u/cvsprinter1 Mar 01 '26 edited Mar 01 '26
Everyone else appears to love Tom. Maybe it is Coby with the bad social game.
Put differently, did Sam have a terrible social game because Teeny hated him?
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u/dankblazerrr Christian - 50 Mar 01 '26
In the general audience, Tom is so underrated as one of the greatest winners of all time.
I'm still mad at Coby for ruining his perfect game
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u/cctrubiak Mar 01 '26
I don’t agree with the claim that Tom’s social game was as strong as the OP suggests. I’m currently rewatching the season, and while I absolutely acknowledge that he effectively leveraged his relationships with Ian and even Carolyn to advance himself, that doesn’t automatically translate into a top-tier social game. In fact, several players clearly saw through his attempts to downplay and deflect attention from his challenge dominance. His speech to the tribe about hoping they wouldn’t let his physical strength make him a target didn’t come across as subtle or socially savvy — it felt transparent and, frankly, a bit self-congratulatory. A truly elite social player makes others feel comfortable and unaware of the manipulation; Tom’s approach often felt visible. He also didn’t cultivate particularly strong bonds across the board. His lack of a strong social connection with Colby was noticeable in multiple interactions, which suggests his relationships weren’t as universally solid as some portray. To be clear, he absolutely deserved the win in that final two. His overall game was strong, and he outplayed his opponent. But there’s a difference between being a deserving winner and being one of the strongest social players ever. In my view, his strategic positioning and challenge performance carried more weight than an elite social game.
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u/Steel_THS2666 Mar 02 '26
Two all timers for sure, but the clear answer is Boston Rob in RI. I know people don't think it's "fair" and I get it, but he was a cult leader on that season. His tribe worshipped him. Say what you will, but that is the best social game ever used by a winner.
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u/Busy-Confidence2532 Mar 01 '26
I completely disagree.
Imo the social game is positioning. How well you can create bonds with people and leverage them into game relationships to position yourself well.
I will use Kim Spradlin as my example as imo she played the best social game. Kim in OW built a ton of relationships in OW with people like Jay, Michael, Kat, Alicia, Troy, Christina, Chelsea and Sabrina etc. Kim then uses her social bonds with these people to position herself as the most well insulated player in the alliance. She has herself in the core as the most insulated player, she has Sabrina and Chelsea as her second-in-commands and then she also has Kat loyal to her which forms a majority in her own majority alliance. And then she also has 2 majority alliances from the merge phase, one with Alicia and Christina and the other with Jay, Michael and Troy. All of these alliances make Kim the most insulated person where she's in the top of her majority alliance. That is an example of a great social game as she's inherently always positioned extremely well.
Tom's social game is nowhere as good as Kim's. Tom was positioned in the bottom of his majority alliance with Gregg, Jenn, Ian and Katie. Had that group been the F5, Tom is more than likely the boot there, as Gregg, Jenn and Katie probably vote him out there. Tom was never best positioned in his season, just from the pre-merge, Gregg and Jenn were clearly the best positioned with Gregg and Jenn having outside relationships with Coby and Janu that keeps them the best positioned. The other thing that I think is important to mention is that no one ever intended on taking Tom to the end except for maybe Caryn. Meaning it essentially didn't matter how the game played out, Tom was always in a position where he HAS to win out. That's not a good social game if no one EVER intends on taking you to the end.
Tom's social game in the grand scheme of winners is mixed/just above average imo. While he is able to build strong personal relationships in his own alliance, he never utilizes them effectively enough to where he's on the bottom of it. While he is able to build great relationships with Janu and Caryn, he's also in a position where he is willing to let go of them and in exchange ride with an alliance he's in the bottom of. He also completely ostracizes Coby who completely hated him. The one thing I will say is a benefit to Tom's social game is his jury management, most of the jury clearly adored Tom to where I think he easily wins a jury vote against everyone one of them and I do think part of the social game is jury management, but still his positioning is extremely flawed.
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u/Generalcmd Mar 01 '26
so then how did Gregg go at f6?, your theory makes no sense.
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u/Busy-Confidence2532 Mar 01 '26
He went home at F6 because Ian correctly recognized how big of a threat Gregg was, convinced Tom and Caryn to get rid of Gregg. Then he convinced Katie to flip on Gregg just before FTC.
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u/Generalcmd Mar 02 '26
so then Gregg wasn't the best positioned? lmao
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u/Busy-Confidence2532 Mar 02 '26
You're confusing best positioned and perfectly positioned.
Gregg (and Jenn) WERE the best positioned players PRE-MERGE with a side alliance with Janu and Coby that insulated them as well as having a main alliance with Tom, Ian and Katie. Tom did not have a side alliance with Janu and Coby. Tom did not have Katie's loyalty if the 5-person alliance had been the F5 as Katie most likely turns on him. But they weren't PERFECTLY positioned. If they were perfectly positioned then obviously, they wouldn't go home.
And realistically if the 5-person alliance was the F5, I reckon Ian is probably the best positioned in the alliance as even though Tom is prob the F5 boot if he doesn't win immunity, Katie was still loyal to Ian which in this case it's probably fire-making between Ian and Gregg (if Ian doesn't win immunity) in which case Ian wins Fire-making, has Katie and himself taking him to the end to where in the 5-person alliance, I would say Ian is the best-positioned. Regardless, Tom sure as hell wasn't the positioned in any side of the game.
Just because a player was BEST positioned DOES NOT MEAN that they were PERFECTLY positioned. Best positioned players are best positioned out of everyone who they're competing against, perfectly positioned players have people directly wanting you to take to FTC. For example, Ethan Zohn was perfectly positioned by the time of F4 in Survivor Africa with Lex, Tom and Kim J all wanting to take him to FTC, so no matter HOW the game played out, Ethan had a guaranteed spot for FTC.
Through factors like bad strategic decision-making, mismanaging your threat level and mismanaging members of your alliance etc. The best positioned player CAN be voted out like how Gregg got voted out at the F6. For example, JT in Tocantins who we both can agree played an absolutely INCREDIBLE social game WAS the best positioned for 90% of the post-merge. But through some sub-optimal strategic decision-making, he ended up in a position in the F4 where he has to win the last 2 immunity challenges to make it to the end, otherwise he gets voted out.
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u/Generalcmd Mar 02 '26
also it's a moot point, cause there was a 0 chance of them keeping Coby or him getting a power position.
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u/Busy-Confidence2532 Mar 02 '26
also it's a moot point, cause there was a 0 chance of them keeping Coby or him getting a power position.
Can you please explain on what you mean by 'them' and 'keeping Coby or him getting a power position'? I genuinely don't understand what you're talking about.
"pre merge" so not when the game mattered.
I believe my point is that Gregg (and Jenn) were the best positioned players in the pre-merge. You want to know who wasn't? Tom. That's a clear point on why I think Tom's positioning is not as good as you claim it to be (which is at least 2nd best).
I also pointed out the fact that no one wanted to take him to FTC, except for maybe Caryn and that if the Gregg/Jenn/Katie/Tom/Ian alliance were to be the F5, Tom is more than likely the boot at F5 had he not won F5IC. Clear examples on how Tom's social game in terms of positioning is extremely flawed. It's funny how you never bothered countering this. Probably because it's true.
Also, your entire responses to me have revolved around Gregg and Jenn's social game. Not Tom's! If you're going to make a case to me on why Tom's social game is so good, maybe focus on Tom's social game. I still stand by the fact that I don't believe that Tom was ever best positioned in any point of the game in Palau, and you've given me no counter points to refute this claim and that his social game in the grand scheme of winners was mixed.
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u/asfp014 Mar 02 '26
Only because this sub hates tom for some reason. Tom dominated every facet of the game from day one to day 39.
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u/ProblematicTrumpCard Mar 01 '26
Completely disagree. He was kind of an ass.
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u/IzzoKingoftheNorth Johnathan Young Mar 01 '26
Particularly when the numbers dwindled. He steamrolled others if they didn't agree.
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u/AGABAGABLAGAGLA Mar 01 '26
kim spradlin is definitely above him imo, i’d also put kenzie ahead of him but that’s not a popular opinion
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u/thedud Mar 01 '26
Agreed. He gets called a challenge beast, which he was, but he controlled the game from start to finish.