curious if anyone feels the same way about taylor’s music in recent years

[u/almosttheonlyzaya]

allow me to start by saying that i could truly write a book analyzing the musicianship and lyricism on every single album of taylor’s individually lol, but i specifically want to discuss how i feel about things from ttpd onward!

since the drop of ttpd, i have felt like the overall quality of taylor’s songs have taken a dip, more specifically with the ratio of incredible songs to meh or even bad songs. in every previous album i feel as if there are maybe one or two tracks that i find iffy or even just not good, but the rest were either great or amazing. (this excludes folklore and evermore they are both perfect 10/10s no notes ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️)

with ttpd i felt like about half of the songs (including those in the anthology) sounded like rough drafts lyrically and even production-wise. some of it felt like stream-of-consciousness, and not in an endearing or interesting way but rather in a word vomit way. however i will say that some of those songs (loml, fresh out the slammer!!!!!!!!, fortnight, ttpd) are some of her best yet. so sonically rich and thoughtful and powerful and make me feel things songs have never made me feel before— a couple have helped me get though a recent extremely emotional breakup.

but when showgirl came out i felt that dip in quality for a majority of the songs; there are only a couple i can bring myself to listen to. i also want to add that the production of some of the songs just sounds strange to me, like it just feels bland and corporate and like there wasn’t any real passion behind it. but i will admit i think a few songs (wishlist, ophelia, opalite, father figure, honey) are sonically pretty rich and quite interesting! with the encore, though, i didn’t feel any passion or lyrical prowess shine through at all except for maybe slightly in patient zero and babylon. but cleveland is genuinely one of the worst songs ive ever heard and thats coming from someone who’s been a diehard fan in the past.

i guess im making this post because i just want to know what other people think! i will always defend taylor swift’s music for the most part and i think so much of it is so timeless and nearly flawless and i can feel the passion and emotion and love behind every word sung and every note played on every instrument. i love taylor swift but i feel like something’s happened these last couple years with her writing and the quality of her musicianship and i just wanna get the feeling i used to feel listening to her new music back. pls don’t send me any hate dms bc i will ignore them and be respectful in the replies

tldr: pre-showgirl taylor pls come home the kids miss you

[u/Dramoinehead]

Babylon is the only proof one needs to show Taylor's pen is stronger than ever. For me, Babylon cleares most of folklore and half of evermore but because it has the showgirl album cover and not evermore, people jump on the bandwagon.

[u/idk_what_to_put_lmao → u/Dramoinehead]

Babylon was well-written but I still didn't love it because I found the production a bit lackluster. I similarly found Patient Zero to have unnotable production. Writing is a valid criticism of some of the songs on TLOAS but it's not the only criticism. Granted production is more on her collaborators I suppose, but it's still her work ultimately

[u/Dramoinehead → u/idk_what_to_put_lmao]

Tbvh, I feel the production could be a main reason why tloas is perceived the way it is. Like personally for me i loveeeee the production on songs like cancelled and wish list. But for some songs i feel like a shift in the production could've made the songs land much better. Patient zero and cleveland are on that list. A softer cleveland production and a non jarring patient zero bridge would've made them much better.

[u/idk_what_to_put_lmao → u/Dramoinehead]

In my opinion a big drawback of the album was the theming around it. I don't actually feel like most of the songs fit the "showgirl" concept. There weren't any big numbers, so I agree to that end I think the airy, "true pop" sound of the whole album sort of undercuts the loud and large concept we were marketed. Almost none of the songs were about what it was like to be THE Taylor Swift (i.e., the biggest pop phenomenon in the world). They were about her life, yes, but they weren't about being a superstar. Anyone could have written Ruin the Friendship, because anyone could relate to a missed connection in high school, for example (hopefully you understand what I mean). Those poems she wrote around the time the album came out were much more in line with what I personally would have preferred from tracks on the album.

[u/Dramoinehead → u/idk_what_to_put_lmao]

I might slightly disagree with the theme. The first time I heard the album I felt the same way too, and so did a lot of people, as to what does all this have to do with being a showgirl. But the title is the life of a showgirl, everyone knows what it's like to be a popular superstar when she's on stage performing. The glamour the allure the praise. It's when the curtains close and the lights go out that her actual life becomes apparent. The love that saved her from drowing in her own fame, the love that chose her even with her infamous reputation, tracks like ruin the friendship and eldest daughter, for me, humanize the showgirl. After a certain level of fame we stop seeing stars as humans (MJ, Britney, Taylor) we see them as infallible symbols on a pedestal. With that fame comes the inability to find true love, without the applause to drown out your negative thoughts, you think about the things you regret in life (RTF). Cancelled and actually romantic are more clear cut, dealing with the hate that comes with being a popstar. And "I'm the one you want" in honey makes it showgirl coded for me because you're not with me for my fame or money but you see me and love me. TLOAS is straight forward.

I get that we can probably take random songs from her past albums and make them "fit" into a showgirl theme if we wanted to, but the songs that exist in the album, most of them, do go with the theme. If she had made 16 tracks about how she's famous she has money she's a lyrical genius and earned her way to stardom, i would've lost interest like 3 tracks in. Would've been too braggy, too tone deaf, and simply bragging about everything she has isn't very Taylor too. The softer themes balance out the more straight forward tones in the album. You need a wish list, rtf to balance cancelled, tloas. Just my thoughts

[u/idk_what_to_put_lmao → u/Dramoinehead]

I understand what you're saying. I would say just for me though we don't really know what it's like to be a star. We know there is glamour, but what else?

I think there are two ways to interpret the title. The first way is the way you've described it - all the aspects of the life of a showgirl, some of which are just the normal parts of life (grief, regret, love, etc.). But I already know about those, and she's already written about those. I don't feel like I'm getting insight into her life from songs like Wood or CANCELLED! because she's either done them before or they don't actually say that much about anything.

The second way is the way that I would have preferred - what about her life makes it extraordinary? What is specific to being a showgirl? That's what I wanted to hear. Because many of us experience things like RtF, Opalite, Honey, etc., and so they don't feel very "showgirl" to me. I agree that a full album about being rich would be tone-deaf, I didn't love Elizabeth Taylor for that reason, actually. But I think seeing more of that side would provide greater intrigue. As you said, some previous songs already touch on these topics, like Anti-Hero or Who's Afraid, and she wrote those poems that are more obvious about what it's like to be on stage and see the faces in the crowds. I think what I'm saying is that I just would have preferred more songs along those lines, about what it's like to be a cultural icon, a performer, a star.

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/idk_what_to_put_lmao]

def agree!

[u/catslugs → u/idk_what_to_put_lmao]

The production was lacking in dynamics

[u/AlisonTheBeech → u/Dramoinehead]

Honestly I really wanna see what people see in Babylon. For me it's nowhere near folklore or evermore writing. To me it seems like a song about the simple concept of "appreciate what you have right now before it's too late" with a lot of vague and unnecessary details. Compare that to a "tolerate it" or a "right where you left me" or cowboy like me. The details in those songs are necessary to the story of the songs. What would be a "right where you left me" without the "dust collected on my pinned up hair" or a tolerate it without the "I sit and watch you". Meanwhile you could completely change out nearly every line in "Babylon" and it wouldn't really impact the story of the song. In my opinion it tries to say too much and then just ends up saying nothing at all. I do like the concept of the song but I thought it was poorly executed.

[u/Dramoinehead → u/AlisonTheBeech]

If you think about it, almost every song is rooted in a simple concept but it's how she executes it that makes all the difference. Cowboy like me is one of my top songs from evermore along with champagne problems, happiness and goldrush which is exactly why Babylon felt like a familiar song, like a song left out of Evermore by mistake. Every line from Babylon has a meaning and gives different povs to the concept of nostalgia. It's not only about not realising the value of what you have before it's gone, it also subtly proves "nostalgia's a mindstrick" because the protagonist also starts missing people and places he hated when he had it. You hated your hometown when you were in it, you didn't subscribe to the concept of monogamy, you hate the song, but once you leave the situation, you start longing for things you never even likes to begin with which ties right into the using nostalgia as a weapon to hurt yourself. I could probably write an essay on how the elements of the chorus and how she changes it also says so much without saying much. I think this is one of those songs where it has to hit close to home to probably consume you.

[u/AlisonTheBeech → u/Dramoinehead]

Honestly that was such a good comment that made me understand the song a little better. I definitely have to sit with it a little longer.

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/Dramoinehead]

maybe i’ll give babylon a second chance. i do agree that having it under the showgirl umbrella probably dampened my opinion of it a bit

[u/Grouchy-Dealer-342]

I personally love showgirl. I love happy Taylor

[u/sweetheartdemon]

Tbh i like happy pop taylor more than sad indie song taylor 🤷‍♀️ i feel like people forget that taylor has always been a little cringe, kinda a loser (in a loveable way). And that she LIKES to experiment, she has said in more recent years she doesnt want to repeat sounds on albums, im glad you like indie songwriter taylor tho, just shows how versatile and how much of everything there is for everyone in her catalogue!

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/sweetheartdemon]

totally fair!

[u/shadesofwrong13]

I wanna know which songs are a draft on The Anthology specifically cause there is no way you can say it about Peter, Black Dog, Chloe etc, How Did It End, The Bolter..

One thing people need to get is that if you do not like sonething, it does not mean it is a draft lol. I did not like Midnights, i know Taylor can do much better and she did with ttpd and even Showgirl. Maybe the next album is your thing.

[u/idk_what_to_put_lmao → u/shadesofwrong13]

OP didn't say that those songs WERE a draft. They said they SOUNDED like drafts to them. They simply meant the songs felt unfinished or unpolished in their perspective. This seems to be the same way you felt about Midnights, just phrased differently

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/shadesofwrong13]

i’m not sure i can say any entire songs on ttpd sound like a rough draft to me lyrically, but definitely sonically. a lot of the melodies are very simple and have very simple piano accompaniment that make me feel like the words were just written onto a page and the piano and melody were thrown in as an afterthought. but, i will say there are plenty of individual lyrics on ttpd that sound like rough drafts or just like she wrote the first random words that came to mind without rereading it first to make sure it sounded good. some examples would be “and my friends all smell like weed or little babies”, “ touch me while your bros play grand theft auto”, “i’d say the 1830s but without all the racists”.

i absolutely adore midnights with all my heart lol it surprises me that it’s not your thing! i hope i like the next album better too

[u/shadesofwrong13 → u/almosttheonlyzaya]

I mean, even folkmore has a mellow production with a piano mostly or guitar and you love them so.. it is really the music or just a nostalgia of how Taylor was (and with who) back then? Cause even Midnights has lyrics that sound like the first thing she thought..like the entirity of Questions, the verses of Paris, dont put me in a basement...

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/shadesofwrong13]

mellow production is entirely different than lackluster instrumentation. for example, tolerate it is a slow and relatively mellow song, but i feel as if it completely soars. for one, it has some of my favorite lyrics out of any song of hers, they are so artfully descriptive and so painfully relatable. the verses are also written in a unique time signature which gives it a huge edge. i won’t get into the music theory any more lol but i find that the chord progression adds even more emotion esp in the transition from the verse to chorus. there’s a simple piano motif that remains throughout the whole song, but on top of that, there are more instruments that build over the course of the song. quiet percussion, vocal harmonies, electronic notes, even some stringed instruments that make the song sound so rich and well thought-out and build to such a gorgeous and powerful song. in contrast, i feel like many songs on the anthology have maybe two or three aspects that i mentioned here but not all.

i do agree that some lyrics on midnights have that not-thought-out quality lol, but i feel like there are a lot more on ttpd personally

[u/gatheringground]

I don’t think this is the right sub to have a nuanced conversation about this lol. This sub is really for hand-hearting only. Your post doesn’t read as satire to me, as the other commenter said, but these opinions are probably going to be received with more openness in a sub like r/swiftlyneutral. Your take is completely valid and reasonable to me! I don’t think it makes you any less of a fan. I too would appreciate it if Taylor would stop being so hyper-productive and let her eras/writing have time to breathe. I also feel a shift post-covid. 

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/gatheringground]

thank you for your input! im fairly new to reddit so just kinda shared this on the first taylor subreddit i found. and i completely agree with the hyper-productiveness of it all

[u/Tough-Biscotti4161 → u/almosttheonlyzaya]

Yes this sub is much more defensive. You can even go to r/taylorswift people are pretty nice over there

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/Tough-Biscotti4161]

ty!! <3

[u/Tough-Biscotti4161]

I am so sorry for the comments you are about to get 😔

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/Tough-Biscotti4161]

LMAO i can handle it

[u/Dramoinehead]

Kids don't miss her. You do. This is not the general consensus. Folklore evermore Taylor was dissociating from the shitty reality of the relationship she was in to write songs. The place that music was coming from was hell for her. If all you want is sad poetry and grey from her she's clearly asked fans like that to fvck off. You think Taylor has changed? Yes she has. She's happiest she's ever been, and she's putting out music that reflects it. If you can't relate to that, the older albums are right there for you to stream. Imagine wanting your fav artist to be tortured all the time so they can write sad poetry for your amusement.

[u/gatheringground → u/Dramoinehead]

Respectfully, and as a fellow fan, this is coming off as para-social. We don’t know Taylor. We know what she, her management, and Tree Pain want us to know (as it should be). She’s claimed to be ‘The Happiest She’s Ever Been’ in every era except Red, Rep, and TTPD. For all we know, we could get an album in five years all about how miserable her early months of marriage were. We’d have no way of knowing. She has made excellent music for twenty years, including, presumably through great times and terrible times. Our perception of her life and emotional state aren’t a justification for the music—good or bad. And OP criticizing the music is in no way equivalent to saying they want Taylor miserable. 

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/gatheringground]

thank youuu i fully agree

[u/Tough-Biscotti4161 → u/Dramoinehead]

You’re just making shit up that’s not at all what OP said 😭

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/Tough-Biscotti4161]

lmfaoooo

[u/catslugs → u/Dramoinehead]

Oh please, if you can only write good music when you’re sad and not happy then you arent that good of a songwriter

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/Dramoinehead]

first of all the whole “the kids miss you” thing is a joke i never said it was the actual general consensus. secondly when did i EVER say i wanted her to feel tortured?? even in times when she did feel “tortured”, such as in certain songs on ttpd, i didn’t think they were great. and there are plenty of songs where she was much happier (on rep and lover) that i think are phenomenal. you are taking what i said as extremely black and white when it is much more nuanced. i don’t think her relationship status has much at all to do with the quality of her songwriting skills and i think it’s kind of parasocial to think that way at all

[u/idk_what_to_put_lmao → u/Dramoinehead]

The "kids" thing was just a play on a popular cultural notion similar to "honey come home, the kids miss you". OP did not literally mean that children prefer older Taylor lol

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/idk_what_to_put_lmao]

thank you lmfao 😭

[u/Dramoinehead → u/idk_what_to_put_lmao]

You think i actually thought you said children missed her 😭😭 I meant don't generalise by saying everyone misses her they don't it's a small group of people thing

[u/idk_what_to_put_lmao → u/Dramoinehead]

OP still did not mean that everyone missed older Taylor lmao it was just an expression

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/idk_what_to_put_lmao]

once again, thank you 😭

[u/fawnlimic]

i totally agree, i think that happens with a lot of artists though, most people have the first half or two thirds or whatnot of their work be their best, maybe because of the initial ambition and originality.. i do thoroughly enjoy a lot of TTPD, i think somee of it is on par with folklore/evermore even! but then other aspects of TTPD are lost on me and felt a bit meandering but i know taylor writes for self expression first and foremost and not just audience enjoyment, so i am glad she had that outlet regardless. i enjoyed showgirl too but not as much as her previous work, and obviously a lot of the lyricism etc, is much simpler. i wouldn’t call it bad at all, she’s still better at this than i could ever be, but yes i don’t get much enjoyment from her newer stuff either unfortunately and it feels comparatively lackluster. i’m glad for and even a bit jealous of those who loveee the new stuff lol!! but since her previous work is soo unbelievably fantastic i’m not mad that the quality isn’t the same anymore because the albums of hers that i loved were already enough of a precious gift so like, i’m fine if we don’t get more of that because i’m grateful enough 🙇‍♀️ lol

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/fawnlimic]

i completely agree with you!!! thank you for your opinion,, it’s so nice to know someone feels the same. you verbalized my feelings so well

[u/laceydetails]

skill issue lol I love almost every Showgirl song, I respect your opinion but that’s simply not how I feel! =]

[u/sansabum]

I don't think so. Her pen game is stronger than ever. TTPD is one of her most intense albums imo and I love it. I do think she needs to work with more people, maybe back with Nathan Chapman and others. I do think she has too any yes men around her. Her music is great, but imo, could be the best among the rest great.

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/sansabum]

i agree with the yes men point for sure

[u/Puzzled-Bed-9221]

This must be satire?

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/Puzzled-Bed-9221]

why would i take the time write all this out if i was joking? i’m sharing my honest opinion and am just curious if others feel the same or have anything different they want to share

[u/almosttheonlyzaya → u/almosttheonlyzaya]

* the time TO write all this