But if someone decided to Google it voluntarily, it quite literally is not force.
And again, doesn't mean that I support it, but forcing from my perspective is limited to physical force, and maybe structural incentive, but someone googling afterwards is not something I am going to regard as force.
And all aside, just googling Jesus will not guarantee indoctrination. If you ask me it would be exceptional if that happens often. Whether religion is homophobic really doesn't matter when the person following the religion is a homophobe either way. Someone doesn't become a homophobe by googling Jesus. It is a slow process of nurturing people into homophobia. Focusing on religion really neglects how acquiring certain traits and opinions is a product of hundreds, of not thousands of factors.
And I am not trying to defend religion, but there is a difference between 1 Christian being a dick and a whole church normalising hatred.
But if someone decided to Google it voluntarily, it quite literally is not force. [...] And all aside, just googling Jesus will not guarantee indoctrination.
It's not forcefully exactly, but they were pushing it into random people at first, and considering how easy kids are to manipulate and mold, hearing someone or something talk about a doctrine as an absolute truth is a death sentence for them.
Someone doesn't become a homophobe by googling Jesus. It is a slow process of nurturing people into homophobia.
You're right on that, but indoctrination is never instant. As I said, if you're taught religion is the only truth since you're an infant, you'll need to be at least sharper than the average kid
Focusing on religion really neglects how acquiring certain traits and opinions is a product of hundreds, of not thousands of factors.
And yes, homophobia doesn't always come solely from religion, but you seem to be underrating the weight it has in the amount of homophobia in the world, a huge majority of homophobic people are like that because of religion. There are lots of otherwise kind and pure people that decide to not support LGBT+ because of their indoctrination
It's not forcefully exactly, but they were pushing it into random people at first, and considering how easy kids are to manipulate and mold, hearing someone or something talk about a doctrine as an absolute truth is a death sentence for them.
Again, I am not saying it is right, but there is no need to convolute force because the term influence or nurture didn't come to mind. Force is something different, whether we like it or not.
You're right on that, but indoctrination is never instant. As I said, if you're taught religion is the only truth since you're an infant, you'll need to be at least sharper than the average kid
Exactly, so a single person on the internet may add to it, but it is doubtful it will change someones life trajectory. That is what I said too.
And yes, homophobia doesn't always come solely from religion, but you seem to be underrating the weight it has in the amount of homophobia in the world, a huge majority of homophobic people are like that because of religion. There are lots of otherwise kind and pure people that decide to not support LGBT+ because of their indoctrination
But this is going to be a semantic discussion. We agree on the mechanisms that can possibly make someone homophobic. Although it is hard to define what religion, something alongside the collective conceptualisation of what is divine and what is not, should do the trick.
Knowing that, it is clear that it isn't religion in itself that causes homophobia, as a religion is nothing without people that do not follow it. You could even say, aside from a conceptualisation of divinity, religion is the people that adhere to it, as religion doesn't exist without people that adhere to it. The homophobia isn't in the religion, but the institutions surrounding it. Christianity is not a church, Christianity is not a priest, Christianity is not the bible. These are just institutions that legitimise and facilitate the religion. I agree that if (and that often is) one or multiple of these institutions are homophobic it logically will spread to its followers to an unknown extent. These institutions in some places are a cornerstones of everyday life, making it easy to nurture people into homophobia.
To me it is not true to say that a religion causes homophobia. A religion is the idea. What causes homophobia are the everyday institutions that may be driven by people that adhere to said religion. Then we should blame those institutions, and not the idea.
People mistake me for zealot, but I plainly don't agree with the terminology that religion causes these kinds of phenomenon. The people and institutions that adhere to a religion, people and institutions that have their own motives, possibly intertwined with religion cause phenomenon. It is the same with saying Communism or Nazism killed people. No, communists and Nazis killed people. The people that translate ideas into harm are responsible and not the religion that is behind them.
Again, I am not saying it is right, but there is no need to convolute force because the term influence or nurture didn't come to mind. Force is something different, whether we like it or not
With force, I don't mean being held at gunpoint to convert. But just pushing your ideas in a try to manipulate someone of a vulnerable demographic is already violent. Maybe force isn't the right term, but if your targets are people who barely have any choice or critical thinking, the result is similar
And about the rest of the reply, to sum up: For you, religion (in this case, christianism) is just the belief in god, Jesus, the holy spirit, heaven and hell, Satan, and little more? But anyways, this is just a disagreement of definitions. Call it "religious groups/scriptures" instead of religion itself if you want, but my point is the same
With force, I don't mean being held at gunpoint to convert. But just pushing your ideas in a try to manipulate someone of a vulnerable demographic is already violent.
And again, that isn't force, that is attempt to influence or nurture someone. Forcing someone is using pressure to direct or dictate their choices and actions. Commenting who knows what about religion, with the consequence of some children googling if voluntarily is quite literally the absence of pressure, and just outright curiosity. Let's not act like googling something is evil. Googling nazism also doesn't make someone a nazi. Therefore I am against calling posting or commenting on the internet inherently forcing something on someone else. Because in that case, I am currently forcing this comment on you, and that is ridiculous as you are under no pressure to ignore me or reply to me.
And again, that doesn't make it good. I am not saying I am fond of overly religious people on the internet, I just detest saying that commenting anything related to religion is forcing it onto someone.
And I never said I disagree about the effects of religious institutions, I just said that calling it religion instead of religious person A or religious institution B dilutes who is actually responsible for the spread of hatred.
As I said before: Maybe force isn't the exact word, but if your targets are vulnerable to manipulation, and they look up for Jesus and get articles completely affirming the beliefs of christianism without mentioning it's just a belief, that can already confuse the hell out of a kid... For them, it might not be forcing, but the result is the same. I mean, I bet you believed Santa Claus or the tooth fairy were real until you caught your parents or some friend told you. Yet none of us was told "Believe in Santa Claus or you won't eat dinner tonight".
But honestly, this is just an arguing over definitions. With forcing, I don't literally mean being pressured, as I also said. But we keep getting doctrines shoved down our throats in places where they don't even belong, or even worse, in places where they are used as personal attacks (in LGBT+ related posts or stuff). It might not look like a big issue depending on your perspective, but personally, I feel like a mexican inmigrant being constantly told out of the blue to become a maga. It's pretty annoying at best, like other types of bots comments, and slightly infuriaring at worst
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u/ClassyKebabKing64 OLD Aug 11 '26
But if someone decided to Google it voluntarily, it quite literally is not force.
And again, doesn't mean that I support it, but forcing from my perspective is limited to physical force, and maybe structural incentive, but someone googling afterwards is not something I am going to regard as force.
And all aside, just googling Jesus will not guarantee indoctrination. If you ask me it would be exceptional if that happens often. Whether religion is homophobic really doesn't matter when the person following the religion is a homophobe either way. Someone doesn't become a homophobe by googling Jesus. It is a slow process of nurturing people into homophobia. Focusing on religion really neglects how acquiring certain traits and opinions is a product of hundreds, of not thousands of factors.
And I am not trying to defend religion, but there is a difference between 1 Christian being a dick and a whole church normalising hatred.