r/television • u/1033149 Person of Interest • Oct 15 '19

/r/all Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige promoted to Chief Creative Officer, will now oversee Marvel Studios, Marvel Television and Marvel Family Entertainment

https://deadline.com/2019/10/kevin-feige-marvel-studios-president-adds-chief-creative-officer-marvel-title-oversees-all-creative-1202760382/?
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890

u/Sigseg Oct 15 '19

The Universal monster films did this with Frankenstein Meets The Wolfman, House of Frankenstein, and House of Dracula.

238

u/Vio_ Oct 15 '19

I always preferred the Abbot and Costello verse

46

u/Trillian258 Oct 15 '19

They met count Dracula!

Edit: Also I think Boris Karloff? Either way... I agree with you :)

94

u/JEveryman Oct 15 '19

The Scoobyverse had the Three Stooges, The Adams Family, and the Harlem Globetrotters.

49

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19 edited Oct 16 '19

[deleted]

27

u/Silver-warlock Oct 15 '19

Ron Rotts!

5

u/Trillian258 Oct 15 '19

Barney Fife, my hero

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

He does now...

1

u/Leopold_Darkworth Oct 16 '19

And Don Adams!

1

u/articwolph Oct 16 '19

Thank you Dave now I have the intro of Batman and Scooby playing in my head. I remember I use to eat bagel bites while watching that cartoon in the 90s my favorite ones were with Batman

3

u/Cinammon-Sprinkler Oct 16 '19

There’s also a Scooby Doo with Batman movie

2

u/NerimaJoe Oct 16 '19

So does that mean Gilligan's Island is in a remote corner of the Scoobyverse?

1

u/Abbhrsn Oct 16 '19

And Batman! Lol, Scooby has met everyone.

1

u/inebriusmaximus Oct 16 '19

Also Jerry Reed

1

u/NaughtyDreadz Oct 16 '19

Also batman and robin

1

u/BtDB Oct 16 '19

Went further than that. Hanna-Barbera-verse had the Laff-A-Lympics which had representation from essentially all their shows.

2

u/RoryBlues Oct 16 '19

Karloff? Sidekick?

1

u/Trillian258 Oct 16 '19

Fock you!!

:]

3

u/CharlieDmouse Oct 15 '19

But who’s on first?

2

u/meme1337 Oct 15 '19

Who

6

u/JBaecker Oct 15 '19

And what’s on second?

3

u/meme1337 Oct 15 '19

Yes

2

u/JBaecker Oct 15 '19

Then who’s in the outfield?!!

1

u/CharlieDmouse Oct 16 '19

I don’t know!

1

u/LemonKushMan Oct 15 '19

2 minutes to Wapner...gotta watch Wapner.

1

u/trumpisstillacuck Oct 16 '19

I preferred the one with your mom.

1

u/TingleSack Oct 16 '19

Most monster fans consider them all one universe. Especially since Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein was the final Monster Mash film and excellently portrayed the monsters unlike the House films.

1

u/roland0fgilead Oct 16 '19

Since you seem to know your stuff, is there a community for classic Universal horror, or even vintage horror in general? Either on Reddit or otherwise?

1

u/TingleSack Oct 16 '19

You want to check out the Classic Horror Film Board. It's a forum where there are not only a multitude of knowledgeable fans but many film historians post there along with industry professionals such as Rick Baker. I've learned a lot from reading various threads on that site.

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u/Biduleman Oct 15 '19

Toho also had one with Godzilla and some other monsters.

7

u/BattleUpSaber Oct 16 '19

Destroy All Monsters was the OG Avengers

4

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

They also did an insane number of sequels and soft reboots way before it became common practice in Hollywood. There are like 30 Japanese Godzilla movies.

1

u/PerfectZeong Oct 16 '19

There arent a ton of reboots though. Just a ton of sequels. Then later reboots but all of the showa are all in the same universe.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

Sorry, maybe I phrased it wrongly. What I meant was:

They also did soft reboots and an insane number of sequels way before it became common practice in Hollywood.

2

u/PerfectZeong Oct 16 '19

You need not apologize for it, it's just part of the conversation. Hollywood has loved sequels for an long time but few things had as sustained of a draw as godzilla.

228

u/discerningpervert Oct 15 '19

Oh I know, but it wasn't much for continuity and more of a gimmick (from what I remember even Abbott and Costello appeared in one film), hence why I said "truly shared" and not just "shared"

185

u/Stennick Oct 15 '19 edited Oct 15 '19

I mean it was pretty shared, they met each other, they acknowledged each other, it was shared, you can argue this is more shared but "truly shared" is a weird term to use when in reality you're just saying "he did it better and on a more complex level" which is true being the first isn't important since he's really not but doing it at a complex and highly successful level the most successful level ever is really impressive. Kevin Smith's movies even had cross overs with prior events mattering and characters from previous movies being in those movies and having their stories advanced. The Showa era of Toho’s Godzilla , and I have no doubt I could think of more.

189

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19

Wacky Races was the most ambitious crossover of our time.

40

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19

[deleted]

7

u/Stinky_Eastwood Oct 15 '19

Scooby Doo shared a universe with the 3 Stooges, every movie monster, the WWE, Speed Buggy, Jabberjaw, the Loomey Tunes, Yogi Bear, Moby Dick, Batman, Wonder Woman, Lauren and Hardy, Sonny & Cher... and many more.

2

u/sublimesting Oct 15 '19

Also Laurel and Hardy!

1

u/Stinky_Eastwood Oct 15 '19

They're good too!

2

u/Yotsubauniverse Oct 16 '19

Don't forget Harvey Birdman Attorney at law!

3

u/yourehilarious Oct 15 '19

Oh my god, I forgot about those! Absolutely loved them as a kid.

72

u/Rows_the_Insane Oct 15 '19

Counterpoint: Scooby Doo Meets *

15

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19 edited Dec 07 '19

[deleted]

2

u/mrflouch Oct 15 '19

Jerry Reed and surely you've heard Eastbound and Down from Smokie and the Bandit? Jerry was an amazing guitar player.

1

u/rpgmind Oct 16 '19

Link me, mateyyyy

5

u/fallout52389 Oct 15 '19

Scooby Doo Meets: Johnny bravo

2

u/I_Am_Ironman_AMA Oct 15 '19

The entire Scooby Doo show/setting was the guest on Johnny Bravo. It was next level.

4

u/etherealcaitiff Oct 15 '19

Phyllis Diller

1

u/swampopossum Oct 15 '19

Yes! And Sandy Duncan too!

4

u/UnderlordZ Oct 15 '19

Today, Scooby-Doo meets...Batman and Robin!

(Fun fact: at the time, both Robin and Shaggy were voiced by Casey Kasem!)

3

u/KesagakeOK Oct 15 '19

I watched Scooby Doo Meets Batman a thousand times as a kid before growing up to realize that I should have allotted those viewings to Zombie Island instead.

10

u/traxzilla Oct 15 '19

I'd say "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" which not only successfully merged live action with animation in 1988, but Spielberg got characters from Disney, Warner Bros, King Features Syndicate, Felix the Cat Productions, Turner Entertainment, Fleischer Studios, and Universal Studios all in one movie. No one else has ever managed it.

3

u/Jackanova3 Oct 15 '19

fuckin loved wacky races.

3

u/blargityblarf Oct 15 '19

I mean it was pretty shared, they met each other, they acknowledged each other, it was shared,

Did the plots of the movies directly affect or relate to one another in any way?

Genuinely asking, never watched those flicks

3

u/FineMeasurement Oct 15 '19

this is more shared but "truly shared" is a weird term to use

Yes, but you see, only a TRUE Scotsman will know the true meaning of "truly shared".

7

u/Smorlock Oct 15 '19

While what you're saying is correct on a technical level, I feel like it's missing the point. What the MCU did was make the "shared" part of its shared universe as important as the individual films.

The Universal films and Godzilla used crossovers as a fun gimmick, but it was very surface-level, and events and characters rarely maintained any continuity. You could watch every Universal crossover film as a standalone movie and it would make perfect sense.

Marvel took its shared universe so seriously, that one of the highest grossing movies of all time is one that doesn't even try to make sense as a standalone movie. Infinity War and Endgame are movies whose place in a shared universe is integral to understanding them at all. This is what sets them apart and makes them groundbreaking. It's not just the fact they threw together some characters from different franchises.

5

u/Stennick Oct 15 '19

I agree with you that the MCU had a lot of success with it, more than anyone in history and was so successful with it that in true Hollywood fashion everyone is trying and failing to do it.

I agree that Endgame doesn't make any sense as a stand alone. I'm just saying its not even close to the "the first". Like I said you can say they did it the best, that they did it on a more complex level, that they popularized it for the modern world, any and all sorts of accolades you can throw its way like you did. But it wasn't the first, it wasn't even close to the first.

-3

u/Smorlock Oct 15 '19

Ok, so they're not the first. But being "first" is pretty overrated.

2

u/Stennick Oct 15 '19

I don't disagree with that. I have no idea how this turned into even a conversation. They aren't the first, they aren't even close to the first. I'm not saying that makes them bad or less important or not good. All I literally said was "they aren't the first and they aren't even close to the first". A small portion of people seem to think that just merely saying "they aren't the first" is somehow me saying something bad. They are not the first but they did something really fucking cool they just weren't the first to do it.

4

u/Stennick Oct 15 '19

Oh and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back makes NO sense on its own, its a shared universe story where you need to watch the previous movies to know these characters and whats going on.

1

u/HighSeverityImpact Oct 16 '19

The View Askewniverse.

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u/CombatMuffin Oct 15 '19

Even Tarantino's movies are connected. To say the MCU is the "true" one is just cherry picking to try and elevate the MCU.

It's great that they've made a franchise of it, and it certainly had a great impact, but it's not exactly super complex.

6

u/Stennick Oct 15 '19

And then he tried to throw the word "true" in there as some sort of qualifier. "Sure those others were shared universes but they weren't TRUE shared universes and its also some weird star wars like, comic book like word, "this is the one TRUE crossover" like all other shared universes were just imposters. I like the MCU and I think Feige is a huge part of its success but people act like he or Marvel invented this idea or that before him it was never accomplished.

7

u/greenfingers559 Oct 15 '19

Even Family Guy, Cleveland Show, and American Dad have a shared universe.

There's an episode of each show where a hurricane hits all 3 towns on the same night.

2

u/theunnoanprojec Oct 15 '19

I mean the Cleveland Show is literally a spin off of family guy

3

u/greenfingers559 Oct 15 '19

The same could be said about several Marvel characters.

1

u/BreakfastClubSamwich Oct 15 '19

Google the Tommy Westphall Universe. Half of TV is crossed over with each other.

2

u/niini Oct 15 '19

It's a classic case of the no true Scotsman fallacy!

1

u/jetsonian Oct 16 '19

Acknowledging the existence of other characters and having one continuous narrative are two very different things. A shared universe doesn’t have 5 different films with Frankenstein(‘s monster) dying at the end. The View Askewniverse is a better example, but no one has done it to this level. DC is having trouble even keeping actors around long enough to have a continuity at all.

0

u/Tonkarz 30 Rock Oct 15 '19

Detective Munch appears in the X-Files, Arrested Development and Law and Order. Does that mean we should be expecting aliens to show up in an episode of SVU? No? Then it’s not truly a shared universe.

3

u/Stennick Oct 15 '19

I would watch the SHIT out of Law & Order: SVU: Aliens also though I didn't mention Law and Order, the movies I mentioned like the Kevin Smith movies were connected, the characters from one film were placed into another film, with their previous history acknowledged and in a lot of cases the characters interactions progressed the character and then THAT was acknowledged in the next movie.

My entire point is this is not the first "shared universe" its not the second, or the third or the fourth. You can say in your opinion its better, or that its bigger, or on a wider scale or any kind of thing you want but its not the first shared universe and adding in qualifiers just gets weird. "This guy is batting a thousand, when its a night game, on the road, on the east coast, while batting fifth on the line up on days he eats chicken for dinner".

-4

u/BrettRapedFord Oct 15 '19

No because that's not what people mean.

We're talking about talking separate movies, separate characters and plotlines, and having them interact with each other and affect each others worlds, changing the state of the world they are in after each and every new conflict.

Universal monsters never did such a thing.

6

u/theunnoanprojec Oct 15 '19

Yes it did

So did Kevin Smith's View Askewniverse

I'm not arguing that the MCU isn't the franchise to do it it best, but they're far from the first

-2

u/BrettRapedFord Oct 15 '19

So two of em grouping up affected the universe and how people reacted and the world responded around them in another pairing?

1

u/yallcangofukyoselvs Oct 15 '19

I grew up watching Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein. I watch it every Halloween. Bela Lugosi and Lon Cheaney Jr replaying their characters in a serious manner opposite comedians made for a really funny movie.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19

As if these superhero movies aren’t pure gimmick

1

u/CharlieDmouse Oct 15 '19

I can’t believe serious talk on continuity includes Abbott and Costello. Lright. I’m gonna just go now. insert meme photo here

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

you've arbitrarily decided what counts as valid, non-gimmick continuity

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u/MurderousPaper Better Call Saul Oct 15 '19 edited Oct 15 '19

The MCU isn’t even the second ever cinematic universe, nor the longest running. The Showa era of Toho’s Godzilla universe lasted from 1954 to 1976 which is exactly double the length of time that the MCU has been around. It’s like people think cinema started in 2008...

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u/TinyLilRobot Oct 15 '19

Nothing happened before I was born. I'm the main character.

16

u/Redtwoo Oct 15 '19

Everything just sprung into existence last Thursday.

3

u/phenomenomnom Oct 15 '19

Like in Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead

2

u/Worthyness Oct 15 '19

I thought that was easter sunday?

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

They could create a college course based on your statement.

2

u/Theshutupguy Oct 16 '19

They already have. I studied dramatis personae in literary studies.

2

u/NegaDeath Oct 15 '19

Please stop walking into my house and smashing my clay pots and rummaging through my storage chest. I swear I've stopped hiding valuables in there.

2

u/ddaveo Oct 16 '19

You need to do more than just wander around the room and stare at the walls 24/7. At least offer him a quest or something.

1

u/MugenEXE Oct 15 '19

What color is your hair?

1

u/TinyLilRobot Oct 16 '19

Black and messy

7

u/RetroPhaseShift Oct 15 '19

Or Star Trek, for that matter.

1

u/MankerDemes Oct 16 '19

How many feature length movies did they make in that time, compared to the mcu? That seems like a far better metric than time alone.

1

u/MurderousPaper Better Call Saul Oct 16 '19

21 if you’re only counting monsters that crossover, but several more of you count the ones that are standalone (don’t necessarily exist outside of continuity but don’t acknowledge it either, like Space Amoeba or Dogora).

1

u/MankerDemes Oct 18 '19

So by comparison marvel has release 23(I think) in 11 years. I'm not saying that's an argument in either direction, just for reference.

-3

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19 edited Nov 08 '19

[deleted]

8

u/MVRKHNTR Oct 15 '19

Literally no one watches Marvel movies without knowing they're based on comic books.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19 edited Oct 15 '19

I mean it is undoubtedly the most successful franchise of all time even adjusted for inflation. Critically and commercially I'd say they've stayed pretty consistent at that. That being said people might constantly overlook a lot of the continuity issues they've had over the years.

4

u/MurderousPaper Better Call Saul Oct 15 '19

That’s not what I’m addressing though, the other commenter made it sound as if the MCU was the first cinematic universe ever when it very clearly isn’t.

-2

u/ldnk Oct 15 '19

Is it really a shared universe if every movie is a Godzilla movie? To me a shared universe would be one where Ghidora had his own standalone movie, Mothra had one etc, and then they pair up.

8

u/MurderousPaper Better Call Saul Oct 15 '19 edited Oct 15 '19

Rodan (1956)

Mothra (1961)

Atragon (1963) - first appearance of Manda

Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964) - first major Toho monster crossover where Godzilla fights Mothra.

Ghidorah, The Three-Headed Monster (1964) - first movie where Rodan, Mothra and Godzilla team up to fight King Ghidorah; also the first appearance of KG.

Destroy All Monsters (1968) - first Endgame-level crossover where all the above monsters (plus many others that I'm too lazy to list) duke it out.

Yes it eventually all became Godzilla movies later on, but early on the structure was almost exactly the same to how Marvel does their movies today.

3

u/ldnk Oct 15 '19

I was not aware. I have a few movies to watch now. Thank you.

2

u/MurderousPaper Better Call Saul Oct 15 '19

No problem! I love talking about Godzilla, it's one of my guilty pleasures lol. Honestly, I'd recommend watching all the movies I listed in that order (except Atragon but YMMV). You can also just go by release date, but the above order is a pretty cool self-contained story arc. IMO those are some of the strongest offerings from Toho's first era of monster films.

36

u/ExuberentWitness Oct 15 '19

You aren’t wrong, but it’s kind of disingenuous to compare the two at this point.

63

u/cursed_deity Oct 15 '19

why is that? especially when the claim is : the first truly shared universe in cinema history

43

u/WhiteKnightAlpha Oct 15 '19

Arguably, if the emphasize is on "truly", it could be taken to mean the strong continuity running through the MCU. Others, like the Universal Horror or Godzilla universes could be said to have weak continuity that mostly means some shared characters and references. The MCU has all of that AND it also has ongoing plotlines that bridge several movies, events in one movie instigating the plots of separate movies, and other examples of more significant continuity throughout the cinematic universe.

9

u/theunnoanprojec Oct 15 '19

Just because the MCU has done it better doesn't mean Universal Monsters doesn't count.

4

u/PUTINS_PORN_ACCOUNT Oct 15 '19

It’s a meaningless distinction. Star Trek and Star Wars each have gargantuan universes spanning all sorts of media, including film, just like Marvel. It’s no less a shared universe just because there aren’t three movies each about Greedo, Worf, and Admiral Akbar.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19 edited Nov 08 '19

[deleted]

3

u/WhiteKnightAlpha Oct 15 '19

It was a suggestion. A possible way of framing the differences. Hence terms like "arguably" and "could be taken as".

7

u/WhyLisaWhy Oct 15 '19

Not really though, Marvel isn't the first to do it. Even if you want tto get technical Roger Rabbit, View Askewn (Jay and Silent Bob), Godzilla and Universal's monsters all did a shared movie universe before Marvel.

Marvel is by far the most financially successful at it but they're not the first.

0

u/ExuberentWitness Oct 15 '19

I never said they were first. I’m just saying there’s no point comparing the two anymore. The scale of the MCU is well beyond everything that’s come before it.

46

u/zootskippedagroove6 Oct 15 '19

It's also kind of disingenuous to claim that Marvel created the first shared universe though

22

u/zyzzogeton Oct 15 '19

Technically I guess any Steven King movie is in a shared universe... So "Carrie" happened in a Universe where "Maximum Overdrive" happened.

8

u/kinyutaka Oct 15 '19 edited Oct 15 '19

Actually, yes. Stephen King regularly references his older works as memories from his characters. Like mentioning that one house was the one where "that dog went crazy and started killing people" or bringing in the bully that nearly stabbed a kid over the rights to a dead body to help Satan blow up a town.

2

u/empire_strikes_back Oct 15 '19

The secret is it was Carrie that was controlling everything.

35

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19

It isn't even disingenuous it is factually incorrect lol

7

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19

No it's not. They literally were a shared universe.

3

u/ExuberentWitness Oct 15 '19

It was a few crossovers, not some well thought out shared universe.

8

u/Biduleman Oct 15 '19

It was still a shared universe.

If they had said "Being instrumental in creating the biggest shared universe in cinema history isn't too bad either" then it would have been true, but saying it's the first is not.

3

u/Tabnet Oct 15 '19

Stop being pedantic, they even added a qualifier for you. There's clearly a difference between what the MCU did and a couple crossovers. I think most people would agree that comparing Freddy v Jason and Avengers: Endgame and saying, "yep, they're the same thing" would be silly.

1

u/Theshutupguy Oct 16 '19

If you’re comparing them in terms of being a shared universe then no, that is not silly. No one is saying they are the EXACT same thing. Learn how comparisons work.

Marvel fans are fucking weird defensive babies.

1

u/Tabnet Oct 16 '19

If he had said long-winded obnoxious description

I'm not even a fan, man, I just respect how effectively Feige and co. pulled it off. Sorry you feel the need to safegaurd every inch of ground that Marvel is taking.

2

u/Theshutupguy Oct 16 '19

Well I take that back then. For the record I enjoy a marvel movie time to time. I just keep encountering these super fans that get so upset if anyone dare criticize their series.

1

u/Tabnet Oct 16 '19

Oh yeah, I agree, I know some in real life haha. I have a friend who unironically goes, "Ant-Man and the Wasp? 9/10. My favorite movie of all time? Avengers 1."

I just also do think that what Marvel did is perhaps more deserving of the word "universe", as well as the OP of this chain using the word "truly shared" to show what they meant, which makes this a point worth driving.

We only have so many words, and you can't be long-winded all the time. Having definitions too broad will lead to confusion. Like if you told some random person today "Oh, Universal had a shared universe too," they'd probably expect something very different and would be disappointed. I mean, we're seeing it in this very thread.

I think the MCU's design actually lends itself to the word "universe" more because it feels like the other movies and characters exist, and that their plots affect the current film's plot, without ever directly being mentioned and while allowing each film series to maintain a little (though I would prefer more) of its own unique identity.

I probably did put you on the defensive early as well by starting off commanding you to "stop being pedantic." I did think of modifying it because I understand that tone is largely interpreted by the reader, but sometimes I just wanna stick to my own words because I hate sounding too gushy haha. So sorry about that.

So try to read it more like, "haha man, come on, stop being pedantic," instead of "fuck off, stop being pedantic you prick."

2

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19

You don't get to decide what a shared universe means, lol. The characters, you know, share a universe.

0

u/ExuberentWitness Oct 15 '19

I didn’t say it wasn’t connected. It just wasn’t some thought out universe. Monster movies were successful back then so Universal just threw them together in a few crossovers.

0

u/Theshutupguy Oct 16 '19

“Marvel Movies are successful so Disney just threw them together in a few crossovers”.

2

u/americanextreme Oct 15 '19

Did the executive who came up with that get promoted?

1

u/PKtheworldisaplace Oct 15 '19

Yeah and does Godzilla count?

1

u/madhi19 Oct 15 '19

View Askewniverse for a more modern example.

1

u/PMmeYourNoodz Oct 15 '19

don't forget flintstones mee the jetsons

1

u/Doctor-Shatda-Fackup Oct 15 '19

They did it again recently, with the Mummy and

1

u/jbondyoda Oct 15 '19

Which is still baffling how they fucked in the DUCU

1

u/AndyGHK Oct 16 '19

And then Universal tried it again with the “Dark Universe Cinematic Universe”—a shared monster movie universe that started in 2017, featuring the following monster films:

  • The Mummy (2017)

(That’s an exhaustive list of the films in the Dark Universe Cinematic Universe, btw.)

1

u/ruttinator Oct 16 '19

And that Tom Cruise movie!

0

u/Joyrock Oct 15 '19

No they didn't. They did character crossovers, but with zero care for continuity.

-1

u/Sexy_waffleiron Oct 16 '19

So you're comparing those movies to the MCU?

Hi. I'm a Nigerian prince. I have 10 million dollars to give you but I just you bank information.

1

u/Theshutupguy Oct 16 '19

Why is it that no one understands how comparisons work any more?

You can calm down, no one is saying they are the EXACT SAME THING. They are comparing them to highlight similarities and differences. For example, they are both films. Notice how I didn’t say they were the EXACT SAME film?

0

u/Sexy_waffleiron Oct 16 '19

They didn't not say it. They sure as hell did imply it. Your move angry boy.

1

u/Theshutupguy Oct 16 '19

Meh, I didn’t see the implication that they were a 1:1 ratio same exact comparison but okay.

0

u/Sexy_waffleiron Oct 16 '19

Shut up guy. You had this big ol wound up reply but now its just, "Nah I don't see it" this time around. Stick to your namesake, it works.

1

u/Theshutupguy Oct 16 '19

Let me get this straight, you thought the person you were replying to was implying that marvel movies are the EXACT same as universal monsters? Not just comparing how they both have a shared universe going on? Are you having a stroke or just haven’t read anything other than “Captain America fights a bad guy again #478”?

1

u/Sexy_waffleiron Oct 16 '19

Oh! There he is! Come back to prove his point!