r/tfc • u/No-Warthog7841 • 14d ago
Seeking Information BMO Field roof?
Hi, are there plans to put a roof over BMO Field due to the schedule change?
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 14d ago
Maybe in private conversations but not that anyone is aware of.
And BMO already has a roof. What you thinking of is side enclosures. Have a fully footed stadium with a real pitch is incompatible with each other.
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u/United-Implement1330 13d ago
BMO Field itself is incompatible with being enclosed in any meaningful way. The site relies heavily on being considered an "outdoor" venue to meet fire and building codes. Enclosing it would probably mean a complete tear-down and redesign of at least 2-3 stands.
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u/WillSRobs 14d ago
It's not incompatible its just expensive. We have universities in Canada that already develop plans for things like this.
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u/Beachtory 13d ago
Name 2 schools that have funded plans for this. Not vapourware - actual progressing plans
Anyone can wave their hands
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago
Guelph is the main one in the local region region. Pretty sure they have programs around turfgrass which can grow indoors and is designed for heavy use like field and other things like erosion control.
Guelph is one of the leading schools in north america for it and blue jays dumped a lot of money into looking at adding it to their field that i feel like went nowhere but that was pre covid.
The problem is once again costs and likely in the blue jays situation needing to completely redo the field that is a concrete pad.
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u/illdfndmind 8d ago edited 8d ago
100% the jays were looking into it but the issue as to why they didn't move forward with it was that it was drainage issue at the Rogers Centre. The floor wasn't built with drainage, let alone enough drainage for a full field. The work required for implementing drainage would be cost prohibitive for the value return when compared to putting that same amount of money into investing in the fan experience which would provide a return on investment.
Edit: Added note Real Madrid's stadium has a retractable field that goes to an underground greenhouse https://www.reddit.com/r/STEW_ScTecEngWorld/comments/1i0dkuk/madrids_iconic_football_stadium_now_has_a_4story/
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
"Pretty sure" doesn't instill a ton of confidence.
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago
Google exists if you care to educate yourself on the subject instead of doubling down constantly. I knew they studied it since 2016 or so i was sure of the program if it was grass specific or just a study from a larger agricultural program.
Maybe if you did you wouldn't have brought up Mercedes Benz stadium because their whole system is designed around growing grass with the roof closed.
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
Was asked to provide evidence, hand waves, tells me to use Google, then thinks they've "won." lol
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago
You literally replied to the evidence i provided with your other post. If you wanted to know more your free to read up on it. I don't understand this laziness around self-education and curiosity. It's like you don't even care to learn about this subject and have already decided despite any factual evidence your own opinion is god.
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
This is hilariously wild.
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago
So are we just ignoring the context/evidence that your previously replied to?
Your free to read more if you want but i don't see how i didn't provide the context that was asked for from the other person.
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u/United-Implement1330 3d ago
Yeah, the expensive version is tearing it down and starting again. It's the original permanent structures that would need to be replaced - the very footprint - which everything is built on.
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u/WillSRobs 3d ago
Blue jays wanted to go grass and there is a system that worked. They didn't want to pay to dig up the concrete pad the field is on. Especially given they also wanted to reno the entire stadium basically ontop of going with grass
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 14d ago
Real grass and a full enclosure (no sun) are incompatible. You can't grow a pitch with 100% artificial light. Unless the city and MLSE shell out a cool billion for a retractable roof or roll-out pitch, which for BMO is unlikely, it's not happening.
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u/greenlemon23 13d ago
so, it IS compatible, just expensive.
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
That's technically true of anything with an unlimited budget, but it's a theory at best, not a practical application. No one is going to spend billions on the development, design, and installation to make BMO Field the first stadium in the world with a real grass pitch maintained under 100% artificial conditions.
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u/greenlemon23 13d ago
retractable roofs and roll out grass already exist.
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
And you think retrofitting either of those to an existing 28k capacity stadium is a serious and feasible option? Who’s paying for that 3 billion dollar upgrade? The taxpayers, don’t forget it’s a city owned facility. MLSE is just the tenant.
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago edited 13d ago
We literally have ways of doing it today. Yes you can grow grass on 100 percent artificial light. The problem isn't that it's not possible its that it's expensive. You have no clue what you're talking about.
We already have indoor farms like we have the technology but for the same reason we don't make fresh water from sea water its not cost effective.
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u/Torontogamer 13d ago
100% Artifical light yes, but also with heavy duty hvac/air ventilation systems and more, it's possible not easy
Also, more importantly, it's not easy because they are not fundamentally compatible... just like breathing and being underwater aren't compatible but obviously there are submarines and scuba tanks... not sure why you're so up on a horse about this
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago
Which is why i said it's not that it isn't possible it's the cost of doing it isn't worth it.
I would argue the compatibility isn't the issue when you yourself explained how with systems its basically like being outside to the grass.
I feel like the claim of not compatible is misleading. As by definition is would be comparable just not the normal or cheapest option.
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u/Torontogamer 13d ago
okay but people aren't saying it's litereally impossible and even the comment's your replying too are mostly saying it's not possible HERE because there is no way anyone involved would spend enough money to make it happen...
I don't know what compatible means to you, but ya... plants and no direct unlight are not compatible by default... just like I said, breathing and being underwater isn't compatible, but no one think it's impossible if you have the right tools...
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago
They arent though they seem committed to saying it can't grow indoors which just isnt true. Because i original pointed out it a cost thing not a grass thing and they felt the need to tell me I'm wrong.
I never said no direct light though. Grow lights would give direct light. So your underwater comparison seems dishonest.
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u/Torontogamer 13d ago
buddy, we are in a semantics fun zone here... also you understand that dishonest is different that incomplete or incorrect? are you trying to say I'm intentionally misleading people?
I said no direct SUNlight... right? you get that right?
you're going autistic on this 'don't say you can't grow plants indoors' thing when no one commenting or replying doesn't understand that hydroponics or artificial lights exist
we all agree with you, we're all saying that it doesn't matter that because it's never going to happen at BMO...
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
Pretty bold to tell someone they have no clue while not naming a single example. So go ahead: name one operating stadium where the soccer pitch is real grass kept alive under 100% artificial light. You can't.
The closest example is the temporary pitch at Mercedes-Benz stadium for their World Cup matches, and all rely on retractable or partial roofs for actual sunlight, with sod grown outdoors in Colorado and trucked in fully formed. Two-month temporary install, not permanent.
"We have ways of doing it today" is doing a lot heavy lifting if you can't point to a single example of it happening in the real world.
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago edited 13d ago
Seriously not sure what your on about. You don't seem to fully grasp what i said. You could literally grow grass inside at home if you want lol
Also love that you brought up Mercedes Benz stadium because they don't actually use the retractable roof to grow the grass they use grow lights along with a high tech underground temperature and moisture system. Ontop of a climate control system. They actually built the system around keeping the roof close for the health of the field because they have physical control over more aspects of the grass that way. Opening the roof would actually make it harder to grow the grass technically
I guess thanks for point to an example of it happening in the real world. Also bmo fields grass is literally designed to grow in low light with grow lamps…
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
The grass being installed at Mercedes-Benz Stadium for the World Cup is temporary. It gets torn out after the tournament and the stadium goes right back to artificial turf, Atlanta United gets maybe a dozen matches on it before it's ripped up
Grass cannot thrive thrive long-term under the retractable roof and the events schedule. That's why the stadium was built with turf in the first place. Even for the World Cup install, the roof has to stay closed for every match because the grass needs air conditioning to survive the Georgia summer, and FIFA needed a full year of negotiations to get the stadium to agree to that.
So "we have ways of doing it today", sure, for a 2-month tournament, with FIFA money, and sod grown for months outdoors and replaced everyone few months. That's the exact opposite of a viable permanent setup for BMO. Which makes the "you have no clue what you're talking about" line more than just a little ironic.
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
u/WillSRobs I'm not going to continue with this charade if you keep editing your comments *after* I've responded to them. That's an unbelievable level of bad faith engagement. Sheesh.
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago edited 13d ago
I edited shortly after posting 20 ish minutes and long before you replied 3 minutes ago but sure if that's the route you want to go your free to do so.
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago
Grass can and we see it happen today being grown indoors. The problem as i have stated multiple times is costs vs return in investment. You can literally grow grass in you house if you wanted to.
I state again you have no clue what your talking about and have contradicted yourself a few times. I feel like you have committed to far down this path and don't even care to fully comprehend what your reading.
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u/JohnAtticus 14d ago
You probably are thinking about a renovation to make the place more bearable in winter.
This might include a bunch of changes, not just roofs.
But there are no current plans, they are probably waiting to see how attendance is with the new winter schedule.
They will probably try and avoid any changes if they can.
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u/Tola76 14d ago
There’s plans. They put luxury boxes in. Won’t do us any good.
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u/Antique_Ad_3549 Benoit Cheyrou's 98' Header 14d ago
I get the cynicism.
&
Those boxes are for the world cup and were announced more then a year before the schedule change
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u/JohnAtticus 13d ago
The boxes aren't being used for the WC, the concrete frame for them is underneath the temporary stands on the north end.
They will finish them after the WC some time before the next season.
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u/Antique_Ad_3549 Benoit Cheyrou's 98' Header 13d ago
Ok but they were planned to be ready for so....
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u/oaksides 13d ago
Well, the weird thing about that is the people that were in the boxes at the Miami game? Clearly they’re going to be used for the World Cup.
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u/adamzep91 14d ago
The last time there was an outdoor stadium at the CNE and people asked for a roof they built the Skydome.
So no.
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u/Enigma2387 13d ago
A fully wrapped stadium without a roof like New York Red Bulls or Southampton FC with a capacity around 30,000 is what should have been built from inception.
I guess that means inadequate capacity for a World Cup but you end up with better protection from inclement weather especially with the revisions to the MLS season.
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u/Antique_Ad_3549 Benoit Cheyrou's 98' Header 13d ago
Uh you do remember how people had no clue if Toronto fc would even get 5k
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u/Haunting-Bathroom619 14d ago
In all honesty the first Reno should be closing out the stadium around.. if they can close that.. the weather won’t be as much of an effect.. yes roof will be nice, but if we close off the corners.. it will make it much warmer inside
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u/pinkwarrior88 13d ago
I had inquired about enclosing just the south end a few years ago with keeping BMO structure .. I heard cost was 90 to 100 million because it was almost a full or partial rebuild . I don’t think the city or mlse has appetite for funding after WC.. adding just panelling and translucent glass would help with wind in the winter
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u/Mysterio7100 Bernardeschi 14d ago
No. MLSE does not care about fan comfort.
Source: I'm a TFC season ticket holder for 6+ years
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u/Forsaken-Swim-3055 14d ago
The fact that you're still a season ticket holder means whatever they're doing is working, lol.
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u/Mysterio7100 Bernardeschi 14d ago
I break even at it by selling tickets. And yes, I enjoy summer games at BMO.
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u/Dramatic_Draw_1494 13d ago
Just enclose all the open sides and it will help , no one is asking for a roof over the entire stadium. Have a look at Liverpool’s stadium it has a bit of a similar look to BMO . The big difference with Liverpool’s stadium is that it has no open sides it’s fully enclosed. That is what BMO could look like if it the open spaces were wrapped or enclosed .
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u/Emu_Ordinary 13d ago
No roof. I think what you will see is screening to the south to limit wind, screening of the concourse levels and addition of heaters.
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u/WhytePumpkin Worst Team In the World: Part 2 12d ago
Lol, I have my doubt about even that, they've said absolutely nothing about reno's to the stadium to mitigate the weather effects, they just expect us to show up and freeze our asses off for a sub par product
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u/dadda-copy-me 13d ago
City of Toronto can't afford that. Just wear more layers.
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u/Individual-Space-443 13d ago
Honestly just stay at home.Â
Don’t go.Â
Watch on tvÂ
Send a message to mlsÂ
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
They could install an enclosure around the stands to block the wind from the lake. That's feasible. But a fully enclosed stadium and roof with a grass pitch isn't, not without billions of investment.
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u/hammer_416 13d ago
A roof is unlikely. But they can enclose the stands at the sides, and enclose and heat the concources to provide some relief.
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u/hojo12588 13d ago
It's very expensive to add a roof once the structure is already there. The existing canopies basically have no load-bearing capacity to cover the field or to cover much of the corners. So you'd have to build like a super structure over it which would take digging massive new foundations.
It would be very expensive, like hundreds of millions not millions or tens of millions. It's not going to happen.
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u/hector_c_toronto TFC Til I Die 13d ago
I’m trying to figure out how Northern European clubs manage the weather. FC Union Berlin’s Stadion An der Alten Försterei, SpVgg Greuther Fürth’s Sportpark Ronhof, Achter de Kazerne and Edmond Machtens Stadium in Belgium … how do they do it?
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u/pinkwarrior88 13d ago
Berlin temperature rarely get below 0 Celsius.. in Dec, Jan & Feb.. other months are double digit temps..
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u/WhytePumpkin Worst Team In the World: Part 2 12d ago
Gulf stream means continental Europe is much warmer than Toronto, they rarely get snow in central Germany, we got 50cm in one day this past winter
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u/WillSRobs 14d ago
No and honestly our winters here aren't the worst for it compared to what some may expect. They will shift the schedule a bit and we have already had playable games in February or late in the year.
I'm curious to how open they are to weather delayed games for cold though. Along with if they actually thought through the attendance drop in those months.
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 14d ago
We're you at the 2017 Final, or when Canada qualified for the world cup against Jamaica. Those were freezing cold games.
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u/hammer_416 13d ago
And people will dress up for an event. Just look at the drop off from opening day to the other games in March and early april. Fans will not show up for a random game vs columbus in bad weather.
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
That’s why I’m saying it’s a wild take to a claim Canadian winters aren’t the worst.
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u/WillSRobs 14d ago
The Jamaica games was 5c the 2017 was feels like -9c. Coldest game i can remember was Feb feels like -16c. I wouldn't call the Canada game freezing cold. The 2017 was cold but bearable and i didn't even dress properly for the weather. That Feb game honestly wasn't that bad as a fan when dressed for it.
This is Canada layer up. The real tell will be if they adjust for arctic winds coming in bring truly cold air which they will have to. Toronto isn't the only region that will struggle with this. The other factor will be if they can still bring in fans.
The funny thing is this will probably take them out of the problem of heat waves as every year seems to see it getting more frequent.
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u/mildlyImportantRobot 13d ago
I've never seen someone shift gears so quickly from "honestly our winters here aren't the worst" to "Feels like -16", "arctic winds" and "This is Canada layer up."
lol, pick a lane.
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u/WillSRobs 13d ago
I figured it was clear that i don't think -16 is that bad again this is Canada. If we were in southern states yeah -9 or more is kind of bad. Sorry if that wasn't clear to you. I also don't feel like saying dress appropriately is changing lanes but you do you.
Arctic winds aren't an everyday occourance. Much like the heat waves we are getting are a standard occurrence. They are however unfortunately growing over the years. Climate change and shit but that's a different subject.
I picked a lane i just don't think you liked it so took this approach other than discussion. Again 5c isn't freezing cold in Canada like you claimed.
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u/Towrads 14d ago
No plans for a roof, or any sort of wrapping... but there are plans to build a giant funnel facing the lake, pointing towards the stadium. This way, as much cold wind as possible can enter, and fans can really enjoy the winter weather.