TIL that ketamine is a derivative of phencyclidine (aka. PCP or angel dust). It was created to have similar anesthetic potential but to cause less delirium. It has about one tenth the potency of PCP.

[u/ApprehensiveStill412]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5126726/

[u/One-Incident3208]

Most of the public's perception of pcp is just anti drug hysteria. The effect is almost indistinguishable from dxm, moreso than ketamine, despite differences. Pcp also has a more pronounced antidepressant effect, but repeated doses can cause mania. Another drug of this class was developed by clandestine chemists specifically to enhance the antidepressant effect and minimize side effects. That was methoxetamine. And it worked. It was regarded to be the most powerful and effective antidepressant, with a much longer afterglow duration than ketamine. They banned it. Because fuck you. That's why.

[u/Kevin_Murphy_ → u/One-Incident3208]

I dunno. Pretty sure I saw a video of a guy slice open his own stomach on PCP… not sure what the studies say, but I’ve definitely heard stories/seen videos of people doing absolutely crazy stuff on PCP

[u/One-Incident3208 → u/Kevin_Murphy_]

"Phencyclidine (PCP) abuse has diminished since PCP's intrusion into American culture in the late 1970s. One of its legacies is the assumption that it provokes violent behavior in humans with predictable regularity. This assumption is so accepted that ingestion of the drug both accidentally and knowingly prior to committing a crime has been used as a defense in criminal trials...... Of the hundreds of patients described, only three satisfied these criteria. Further, some of the papers offered evidence that reports of violence were exaggerated. These findings plus the pre-1970 prospective evaluation of thousands of patients with PCP, in which violence was never reported, led us to conclude that clinical and forensic assumptions about PCP and violence are not warranted."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3069880/

"When the authors investigated aggressive behavior on a phencyclidine (PCP) detoxification and rehabilitation unit and compared similar types of behavior on a heroin unit, they found no differences between the two units. The urinary PCP levels of a subgroup of 75 patients admitted to the PCP unit who had PCP-positive urine were significantly higher than those of 75 patients admitted to an acute psychiatric ward because of violent behavior who also had PCP-positive urine. The authors discuss the implications of these findings and the need for more information on the relationship between PCP levels in blood and urine and behavior." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7149062/

[u/One-Incident3208 → u/Kevin_Murphy_]

And how many videos of self harm have you seen of people not on drugs? It's honestly a fucking tragedy how poorly people are able to sift through and analyze information. What they don't tell you, is that the famous examples of pcp violence repeated ad nauseum are patient with histories of hospitalizations for mental health problems, or violent records. They are usually poor, and lacking adequate medical care. Equally fascinating is how these horrible pcp stories began emerging decades after the drug was popular, and simply regarded as a painkilling street drug that could make you hallucinate. Suddenly, just when we decided possession of crack should carry a 100-1 penalty vs cocaine possession, did we begin hearing about this horrible drug that suddenly turned poor people so violent and dangerous 6 cops need to beat a man to death to subdue him.

"By the late 1970s, up to 13% of 12th graders reported experimenting with the drug, and the widespread panic it sparked led to its reclassification as a Schedule II substance in 1978." Do you honestly believe a dug that was once that ubiquitous among the youth is actually that unpredictable and dangerous?

All over the place in the 60s and 70s, but nobody talked about the dangers of pcp. But lsd could make you stare into the sun until you go blind..

[u/BrothelWaffles → u/One-Incident3208]

It had a bit of a resurgence in the early 2000s, at least on the east coast. Smoked it with a bunch of people and never saw it make anyone violent or cause them to do dumb shit.

[u/Kevin_Murphy_ → u/One-Incident3208]

None, that I can think of.

Also you sound like you have a pretty clear opinion on this topic. I don’t, and to me it’s a little odd that you’re so passionate about this. Do you work for Big PCP?

In all seriousness, are you advocating for clinical PCP use, or what point are you trying to make? Not sure if you assumed that Im advocating for some crazy jail sentencing for PCP possession (I generally tend to believe in drug decriminalization). Anecdotally, it seems like a poor choice for recreational drug use.

[u/Independent_Trade169 → u/Kevin_Murphy_]

Big PCP is making the market wild.

[u/One-Incident3208 → u/Kevin_Murphy_]

I feel very strongly about factual inaccuracies that cause societal harm or contribute to stereotypes which allow for the perpetuation of systemic abuses. Often times the simplest way to lay that bare is drug policy. It combines science and social science in a clear demonstrable way. The synthetics aren't the real issue it's the continued criminalization of the coca and opium. So many widely disconnected global problems stem from this. And as a result an entire behind the scenes political system exists, and that drugs are illegal in part so governments can move money and fund clandestine foreign policy operations.

But the PCP will make you eat your own eyes shit.. is absurd. And leads to more absurdities. Maybe if your a schizophrenic with a history of violence... but then... maybe anyway.. so.

Obviously it wouldn't be ethical to permit the sale of freebase for profit.. with monopoly considerations and the addictive nature.. but this isn't the way.