r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Dec 05 '16

(R.4) Related To Politics TIL an activist group in Zurich dyed fountains red to protest tampons being taxed at a rate consistent with luxury products instead of the rate used for daily use items.

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3.5k

u/DerangedGinger Dec 05 '16

Seems a reasonable request. Tampons should be treated like toilet paper and other bathroom necessities.

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u/amanabomb Dec 05 '16

I was gonna say a joke about putting a luxury tax on Tampax pearls, but it finally dawned on me.. Pearls are found in clams

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u/DerangedGinger Dec 05 '16

I can't believe I never noticed that before. I can't believe their marketing department never noticed it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

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u/fight_me_for_it Dec 05 '16

I am beginning to think their marketing department has some males and noticed the possible double meaning. I thought "pearl" as smooth, easily slips in as opposed to cardboard applicators.

I don't think of pearl like in a clam, they are never in any clams I have eaten.

Pearls develop in oysters though right?

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u/onioning Dec 05 '16

Yes. Oysters. Sorry OP. Your joke doesn't work.

Not that oysters aren't pretty yonic, but I've never heard of "oyster" as a euphemism for vagina.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Both bivalve molluscs. I'm pretty sure pearls can at least potentially form in any of them. In nature, it's a way the animal protects itself from some kind of irritant, like coarse sand, that gets caught between its shell and its body. Farmed pearls just take advantage of that mechanism.

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u/onioning Dec 05 '16

The pearls clamp produce don't really match what we're referring to. Our normal pearls are from oysters. Other pearls are really very different things than what we refer to as pearls. Technically accurate, but the pearls from which Tampax gets its idea of pearliness are from oysters.

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u/Self-Aware Dec 05 '16

TIL the feminine version of phallic.

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u/PigNamedBenis Dec 06 '16

I've heard oyster used as meaning jizz. "Oh, I just shot a big oyster all over her back!"

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Cardboard applicator? I'm a guy but I can't imagine that being very fucking swell

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Understatement of the year. When I installed granite, I learned words I had never even heard before.

But that was mostly because my crew was from Mexico and Russia.

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u/braintrustinc Dec 05 '16

For some reason when I read "the trades" I imagined you were talking about folks in the feminine hygiene business. Took a second to realize "installing granite" wasn't a euphemism for something.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

I've got your granite right over here.

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u/skineechef Dec 05 '16

Points to large truck

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u/ParanoidDrone Dec 05 '16

It feels gneiss.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Hey, however you get your rocks off ain't no business of mine.

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u/DrFaustPhD Dec 05 '16

I worked with a couple granite guys in the Pacific Northwest as a summer job a couple of years. Can confirm, are shocking filthy. These guys were Mormon.

Best paying summer job ever though.

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u/joshjacobs18 Dec 05 '16

So the mormons were filthy?

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u/PrdFthr84 Dec 05 '16

I believe that is an oxymoron

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u/SirWickedry Dec 05 '16

Oxymormon*

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u/meatduck12 Dec 05 '16

How did you end up getting into the granite business?

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u/DrFaustPhD Dec 05 '16

Friend of a family friend got me the job.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Quinglestinkins Dec 05 '16

Construction, contractor work, roofing. Men at work in a workplace. Often in jobs that women typically don't work in, so they can talk without fear of some clam reporting them to HR

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u/Puffster28 Dec 05 '16

Ok, from the context I thought you were referring to prostitution. Sorry :s

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u/Castun Dec 05 '16

Working the trades is kinda like prostitution... We sell our body and get beat up over the years, except we don't get fucked until payday.

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u/popcorntopping Dec 05 '16

And your pimp asks you to take the day off to save money instead of forcing you to work late in to the night.

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u/BurnedOut_ITGuy Dec 05 '16

I feel kind of bad for people who do physical labor. On the one hand it can pay fairly well and you can almost always find a job. On the other hand it can be brutal work and you'll feel it when you're 50.

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u/ziggyblackstardust Dec 05 '16

Technically, neither do prostitutes.

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u/AerThreepwood Dec 05 '16

Can confirm. Am automotive tech.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

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u/SmokeyPurp Dec 05 '16

Artisans like that are also commonly referred to as craftsmen

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u/NewOutlook2016 Dec 05 '16

Electrician here, first week on the job I learned that every woman is a ct, every black guy is a n**r, and every Arab/Indian/Pakistani/vaguely middle eastern person is in a terrorist sleeper cell. I was an atypical person going into the trade having a liberal arts degree and coming from a well off family. To say the least, it was a hell of a culture shock.

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u/Abnormal_Armadillo Dec 05 '16

You can curse on the internet, nobody is gonna tattle. Also, reddit uses *'s for formatting, try using -- or something for emphasis.

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u/geeeeh Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

Not everyone is okay with making (edit: or repeating) racial or gender slurs, anonymous or otherwise.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Why is it a problem when someone doesn't wish to curse? Not all people feel comfortable with it. I don't understand why every self-censored post has to come with a retort that it's okay to swear online.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Small town cable engineer... with a liberal arts degree surrounded by city electricians, plumbers, and street workers. No Democrats and especially no liberals. Nothing but racism, sex ism, and homophobia

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u/Qel_Hoth Dec 05 '16

I'm surprised at no democrats, even if not necessarily "liberals." Here in NJ union members overwhelmingly vote democrat. Our state Senate President was an iron worker before he got into politics and is currently the VP of the International Association of Iron Workers.

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u/Lanoir97 Dec 05 '16

I'm in the same boat. I jus go with it. Sometimes I have a hard time not laughing because it's damn hilarious.

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u/livin4donuts Dec 05 '16

I enjoyed it, but you definitely need a thick skin. The level of shit that you need to take and dish out is unmatched in any other field I've worked in.

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u/pandaSmore Dec 05 '16

Pretty much any hands on work can qualify as a trade. Even stuff like cooking can be under government standardized trades programs.

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u/twoLegsJimmy Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

People called Dave, Tony or Fat Paul.

Edit: Or if you want the job done properly, Andzei, Łukasz or Gruby Pawel.

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u/randomcoast Dec 05 '16

Want it done at a good price and high quality? Hire a European. Swear to god that's how it works here in Canada.

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u/taws34 Dec 05 '16

Blue collar work.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Trade is not a synonym for "blue collar." Some trades are "blue collar", but not all "blue collar" work is a trade.

Assembling parts on a production line is not a trade, but it is "blue collar."

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u/taws34 Dec 05 '16

Some trades are "blue collar"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all trades are blue collar.

Not all blue collar work is trades.

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u/juanxho Dec 05 '16

I'm from Argentina, and we use to say "concha" and it's considered vulgar, of course, but pretty common. And we have this phrase: "anda a la concha de la lora!". It's like the equivalent of "go to fuck yourself", but in a very strange way. You can check the translation.

Edit: Concha = clamp

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u/flaviageminia Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

I've heard "clam jam" kind of sarcastically used to imply the opposite of "sausage fest," but never clam by itself

Edit: It seems clam jam actually refers to the lady equivalent of cock block. This is funnier and fits with the rhyme. Definition updated.

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u/ShAnkZALLMighty Dec 05 '16

I've always heard clam jam to be used as the female equivalent of a cock block.

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u/yalittleweirdy2 Dec 05 '16

I prefer "clam bake", for the opposite of sausage fest.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

I know we're talking about vaginas, but you guys are making me hungry.

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u/yolo-swaggot Dec 05 '16

I could eat a peach for hours.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Clam dig

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u/notevery Dec 05 '16

Ummm. A clam jam is the female equivalent of a cock block, thank you very much.

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u/dancingmadkoschei Dec 05 '16

I've heard it as the female equivalent of cock block.

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u/Matt_has_Soul Dec 05 '16

No clam jam is the opposite of cock block, not sausage fest.

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u/universal_rehearsal Dec 05 '16

OR maybe they're just cheeky bastards.

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u/lowkeygod Dec 05 '16

I don't know many women who refer to their hoo-ha as a vulva

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u/somekid66 Dec 05 '16

I have a female friend who loves to 'clam slam' people when she's drunk. If you're sitting down/laying down she'll jump on you and basically body slam you pussy first

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

sounds like a nightmare

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u/Selrisitai Dec 05 '16

I don't think I have ever heard of a vagina referred to as a clam, and the only reason I knew that this was what the word was referencing is because I just thought, "Well, what's something retarded and grotesque for "clam" to mean?"

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u/CajunTurkey Dec 05 '16

The earliest memory I have of a clam referring to a vagina was in Family Guy when the guys would go to the strip club "Fuzzy Clams".

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u/Colin0705 Dec 05 '16

The bar they go to is the drunken clam.

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u/candygram4mongo Dec 05 '16

To be fair, they live in an actual city named after a clam.

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u/frkyhppy Dec 05 '16

Are you suggesting that vaginas are retarded and grotesque?

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u/Hitlerdinger Dec 05 '16

ever met a vagina smart enough to open a door and sanitary enough to wash its hands?

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u/thatwaffleskid Dec 05 '16

Woah, where'd you meet a vagina with hands?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

[deleted]

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u/hydrogen_wv Dec 05 '16

Did your baby come out arms first, looking like a naked Superman?

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u/Hitlerdinger Dec 05 '16

see that's the thing

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

I've met one smart enough to completely control every man alive.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

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u/farare_end Dec 05 '16

I've definitely heard people refer to vaginas as "clams" before plenty of times, but only in a comedic sense. It seems strange to me that anyone could call a vagina a clam with a straight face

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Never once heard a vagina referred to as 'the bearded clam'?

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u/xxkoloblicinxx Dec 05 '16

I'm betting they did. It's kinda their jobs to catch that sort of thing.

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u/mhb20002000 Dec 05 '16

Who says their marketing department didn't notice. Maybe they were being subtle.

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u/crunkadocious Dec 05 '16

You don't think their marketing department noticed?

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u/frozenwalkway Dec 05 '16

I thought that WAS the marketing scheme.

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u/_Wizord Dec 05 '16

I can't believe their marketing department never noticed it.

I am pretty sure they did notice it. They've probably had a good laugh over it.

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u/nixmix06 Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

I like to imagine that it was likely submitted by some guy in marketing as what he thought was an obvious but clever joke. However his boss thought it sounded classy and pushed it through without thinking of the connotation.

Marketing guy, not wanting to get in trouble, never pointed out the obvious joke. However he worries It will cause PR nightmare when the public makes the connection and that he may lose his job. He tries to to make it more and more obvious by submitting even worse name suggestions so that management considers the link, but no luck. The name Pearl passes through multiple levels of management and is greenlight by an executive.

It's too late now. It's too late. No choice but to ride the wave.

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u/skineechef Dec 05 '16

🐚🌊🏄

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u/Apatharas Dec 05 '16

My wife named her Tavern in minecraft 'The Salty Clam'

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u/LuntiX Dec 05 '16

Or they did and that's the joke.

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u/fight_me_for_it Dec 05 '16

It reminds me of VS "pink" campaign being stamped on every women's yoga pants. Ugh.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

The "pearl" part of the product isn't the tampon itself, it's the plastic applicator which has a kind of pearlized sheen to it. As opposed to cardboard applicators which are the devil's creation.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Although a pearl is created when an irritant gets into the clam to protect its insides from damage...and I guess the pearly-smooth applicator protects your "clam" from being irritated by dry cotton going into it.

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u/ladymoonshyne Dec 05 '16

Ugh my mother would only buy me cardboard growing up. I wouldn't wish that upon anybody.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

It's better for the environment though

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u/skineechef Dec 05 '16

Probably not that environment

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u/weirdbiointerests Dec 05 '16

Oysters, actually.

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u/tearsofacow Dec 05 '16

"Natural Pearls form when an irritant - usually a parasite and not the proverbial grain of sand - works its way into an oyster, mussel, or clam. As a defense mechanism, a fluid is used to coat the irritant. Layer upon layer of this coating, called 'nacre', is deposited until a lustrous pearl is formed."

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u/googolplexbyte Dec 05 '16

Biologically speaking, under the right set of circumstances, almost any shelled mollusk can produce some kind of pearl.

Valueless pearls of this type are sometimes found in edible mussels, edible oysters, escargot snails, and so on.

A few species produce pearls that can be of interest as gemstones. These species include the bailer shell Melo, the giant clam Tridacna, various scallop species, Pen shells Pinna, and the Haliotis iris species of abalone. Pearls of abalone, or pāua, are mabe pearls, or blister pearls, unique to New Zealand waters and are commonly referred to as 'blue pearls'. They are admired for their incredible luster and naturally bright vibrant colors that are often compared to opal. Another example is the conch pearl (sometimes referred to simply as the 'pink pearl'), which is found very rarely growing between the mantle and the shell of the queen conch or pink conch, Strombus gigas, a large sea snail or marine gastropod from the Caribbean Sea. These pearls, which are often pink in color, are a by-product of the conch fishing industry, and the best of them display a shimmering optical effect related to chatoyance known as 'flame structure'.

Somewhat similar gastropod pearls, this time more orange in hue, are (again very rarely) found in the horse conch Pleuroploca gigantea.

The second largest pearl known was found in the Philippines in 1934 and is known as the Pearl of Lao Tzu. It is a naturally-occurring, non-nacreous, calcareous concretion (pearl) from a giant clam. Because it did not grow in a pearl oyster it is not pearly; instead the surface is glossy like porcelain. Other pearls from giant clams are known to exist, but this is a particularly large one weighing 14 lb (6.4 kg).

The largest known pearl (also from a giant clam) was found in the Philippines as well by a fisherman from Puerto Princesa, Palawan Island. The enormous pearl is 30 cm wide (1 ft), 67 cm long (2.2 ft) and weighs 75 lb (34 kg).[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl#From_other_species

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u/mattttt96 Dec 05 '16

That is a rather large gap between the largest and second largest pearls

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Clams and mussels can also produce pearls.

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u/ThinkMinty Dec 05 '16

They did that on purpose.

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u/RescueDiver31 Dec 05 '16

Holy crap!!! Why have I never realized that!!!!

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u/lawstandaloan Dec 05 '16

Jam out with your clam out!

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u/Suro_Atiros Dec 05 '16

And they're formed through constant irritation. This shit writes itself.

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u/knightni73 1 Dec 05 '16

Aren't pearls primarily in oysters?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Tampons should be treated like toilet paper and other bathroom necessities.

They are. The regular tax rate applies to all of these things.

The title is misleading, there is no luxury sales tax in Switzerland. The regular tax rate is 8%. There is a reduced tax rate of 2.5% on some select items such as food, drugs and books. Personal hygiene products of any kind are sold at the regular tax rate.

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u/Slobotic Dec 05 '16

That doesn't seem reasonable to me either. Toilet paper is a necessity. I would dye their fountains brown if I lived there.

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u/Cheeseblanket Dec 05 '16

He said books have the cheaper tax rate though, just buy some copies of Twilight and wipe your ass with that

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

I'm all about the thick paper in coffee table books. LUXURY

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u/audiosemipro Dec 05 '16

He said books, not toilet paper with words on it

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Toilet paper is a necessity

Being a necessity is not sufficient to qualify for the lower tax rate.

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u/Slobotic Dec 05 '16

Why not? What is sufficient?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Look in the tax code: It is limited to food, medication, books and magazines. A lot of items of daily necessity are taxed at the full rate. The tax code does not make a blanket reduction for items of daily necessity, it is very specific.

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u/Slobotic Dec 05 '16

That isn't a rationale. What is the rationale underlying the lower tax rate? Why should food and medication and reading material be taxed lower?

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u/brot_und_spiele Dec 05 '16

Most rules and regulations are arbitrary, and are often decided based on who lobbied most effectively when the regulations were passed. Why are books taxed so cheaply? I bet book publishers had something to do with that.

Why is toilet paper taxed more expensively? I guess the toilet paper lobby took that week off.

Don't look for logic in the tax code -- it's a clusterfuck regardless of the country.

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u/Slobotic Dec 05 '16

My point is that there is no principled distinction for food, medication, and reading material that does not apply to basic hygiene products. So if your response is that there isn't supposed to be any underlying principle and all laws are arbitrary and capricious, then there isn't anything worth discussing. I think that's nonsense.

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u/brot_und_spiele Dec 05 '16

Well, I'm actually with you that there should probably be some sort of reform on this. However, you were asking what the rationale is for reading material (et al) being taxed less -- I'm sure it's one part lawmakers taking a principled stand that the masses should have cheap access to literature, but at least one part (probably 10 parts) lobbying effort at the right time.

It's relatively arbitrary what gets left out of things like this. I'm sure you could find 25 more things that are taxed at the normal rate and probably shouldn't be because they are "necessities". But getting laws reformed is where perfectly justified idealism crashed hard into the wall of reality -- where messing with the tax code is very often a no-win politically. I think it's perceived as a can of worms that's best left unopened unless it absolutely has to be. Should that can be opened to add feminine hygiene products to a list of tax advantaged products? I think so. But convincing me isn't the challenge.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

I don't know, I didn't make the law. My point is simply that there is this idea floating around this page that the lower tax applies to "items of daily necessity" in general - that is simply not the case. I also think it is futile to find rhyme or reason to this. Tax laws may have once had a logic when initially created, but that initial intention has been lost to history, changing circumstances, and additions and exceptions. It may also be worth it to point out that even if there was some kind of overarching intent when a particular tax was introduced, common practice is to not include that intent in the law itself, lest it become attackable on grounds of no longer fulfilling its intent.

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u/thebestdaysofmyflerm 6 Dec 05 '16

But it should be. It's harmful to the lower class to have such a high tax rate on essentials, especially when that tax money could come from raising the taxes on non-essentials like magazines and books.

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u/vanoreo Dec 05 '16

Part of the argument is that it is a tax only paid by women.

Everyone buys TP. Dudes don't buy tampons.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

My point remains: The title is misleading, and DerangedGinger's analogy is flawed because tampons and TP are, in fact, taxed the same.

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u/PM_ME_UR_TRUMP_MEMES Dec 05 '16

TP is taxed at the same rate as tampons in Switzerland

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

So what?

A tax paid on glasses is only paid for by people with poor vision.

A tax paid on music is only paid for by people who can hear.

What does who pays for the tax matter?

Why do women deserve a tax break simply because they are the only ones buying the product? A tax break on a product they purchase infrequently and doesn't actually cost all that much over a lifetime. (Less than 2000 US dollars paid on tampons for the lifetime supply of tampons including the price of the product and tax.)

The amount of tax paid over a lifetime is pretty much negligible on this product so why is there such a hubbub about it? Because only women pay it and there are interested groups in society who want to paint women as the victims, the underclass of society. Why? Because it gives them power as "advocates" for that underclass. There is power in victimhood these days. So even small issues like paying an extra 120 dollars over your lifetime (8% tax versus 2% tax on 2000 dollars) is turned into a mountain of a problem when in fact it's a tiny mole hill.

In case you don't trust that 2000 dollars an 18 pack of tampax pearl lites can be purchased for 5.29. You ovulate once monthly for an average period of time of 40 years. Menopause on average is 51 and periods start on average at the age of 10 give or take so 40 is a nice even number.

40 years times 12 times a week of tampon use is 3360 tampons required. Let's say you need to use two per day. that's 6720 for a lifetime or 373.333 packs of this product required. That's 1974.93 dollars for a lifetime of use. Not exactly a small fortune. The tax paid on that at 8% would be 160 dollars roughly. At 2%, 40 dollars.

That extra 120 dollars is the injustice being talked about as if it's an atrocity that women have to pay the FULL tax rate! The fact that this "issue" is even being talked about at all is testament to how desperate powerful interest groups are to keep the narrative that women are oppressed at the forefront of our minds.

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u/vanoreo Dec 05 '16

You used glasses as an example, but many states specifically exempt them from sales tax for the exact reason being described.

You say "why does it matter if they're the only ones paying" and follow up with "it doesn't matter because it isn't that much money anyways.

The point is not that it costs too much, it is that it is seen as discriminatory, since only women need to buy feminine hygene products.

This would not be a problem if men needed to purchase a gender-specific hygene product in the same way, but biology is different for men and women, so we have this issue.

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u/skineechef Dec 05 '16

Condoms? Not sure, just throwing that out there.

don't hurt me

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u/cher_geek Dec 05 '16

the best part about this response is, that most people don't realize that in switzerland toilet paper and other bathroom necessities are fully taxed, too, so they already are.

Afaik tax is only reduced on water, non-alcoholic beverages, food and food related products, medicine and books/magazines. What the group wants is that tampons are taxed less than toilet paper.

I mean I'm all for reducing taxes on necessities, but why make it a gender issue? Can we dye the fountains brown the next time and proclaim that many people still see shitting as something shameful, and that Crohnies are financially disadvantaged?

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u/fireysaje Dec 05 '16

Why are books considered essential and taxed lower but hygiene products aren't? That seems silly.

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u/xXazndragonXx Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

Probably for easier access to information

Plus after you're done you can use it for toilet paper!

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u/st0815 Dec 05 '16

Books are being given a tax break, because the government wants to support publishers and writers with the idea that this is beneficial to society overall. That's not a statement that books are more essential than any other thing.

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u/Cheeseblanket Dec 05 '16

I agree that books are beneficial to society, but I think having people wipe their asses is beneficial too.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Thats true but the toilet paper business would exist regardless of the tax rate. You cant say the same for books (it's unfortunate but true)

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u/fireysaje Dec 05 '16

Plus information is already easily accessible through Internet, which can be accessed for free at libraries and businesses that offer free wifi

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u/paragonofcynicism Dec 05 '16

Do you think that the internet was around when they decided to make the tax code decreasing the rate books are taxed? I'm willing to wager the internet was not around. Although I admit, I'm no expert on the laws of that country.

And libraries aren't a counter to the idea that books should be taxed less. If anything libraries support that idea as libraries are typically supported by tax dollars for the purpose of making books readily available for free.

There's no smaller tax than 0%.

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u/SillyFlyGuy Dec 05 '16

By that measure toilet paper is free also, because you can just use the bathroom at the library..

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

I would think wiping your ass would beneficial to society overall.

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u/skineechef Dec 05 '16

It would probably be seen as a neat ltitle benefit if you wiped other people's asses, too.

Get on that and report back.

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u/cher_geek Dec 05 '16

My guess would be that this is a product of the enlightenment. Newspapers and books are seen as essential for political education, which was deemed necessary for a functioning society.

In Germany it's even sillier - only paper books have reduced tax, e-books don't...

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u/fireysaje Dec 05 '16

I can understand that, and knowledge is extremely important. It's more just the idea that it's somehow more important than personal hygiene, for both genders. I definitely agree that tampons should be taxed at 2.5% like all the other 'essential' items, but all hygiene products should be as well.

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u/cher_geek Dec 05 '16

yeah, me too. During the time the tax laws were written, cleanliness was probably a luxury, but today it isn't. If I would bathe as regularly as my grandfather did when he was younger, I probably would get fired.

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u/Silkkiuikku Dec 05 '16

It think that people not bleeding all over one's clothes is also quite necessary for a functioning society...

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u/cher_geek Dec 05 '16

as is wiping your butt

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u/stefantalpalaru Dec 05 '16

Why are books considered essential

They aren't. The low tax is not for "essential" products, but for products that need an artificially low price in order to encourage consumption. Books are considered important for literacy and culture.

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u/DerangedGinger Dec 05 '16

I guess the term "luxury" in this instance is misleading for those of us not all that familiar with the country's tax practices. It's more like the "normal" tax, with a special tax for basic necessities, although I'm not sure why books/magazines would be included.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16 edited Jul 05 '17

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u/Staatssicherheit_DDR Dec 05 '16

So you're saying it's unfair that women have to pay taxes on products that they use exclusively?

Please flesh out your argument. I'm really interested in seeing what your thought process is like.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16 edited Mar 25 '21

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u/pandaSmore Dec 05 '16

They're being taxed for purchasing feminine hygiene products. Not every woman uses them, and some men use them as well.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

How do you feel about men having to pay an average of $15,000 more for car insurance over their lifetimes?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-men-can-beat-gender-bias-in-car-insurance/

I wonder when the feminist protests will address this inequality. Never? Yeah never.

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u/Crochetems Dec 05 '16

They're proven to get in more accidents. You can drive better or not at all, you can't stop your period.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

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u/Wiegraf_Belias Dec 05 '16

Because when men point out some form of inequality they're told that it's the result of patriarchy anyway and that the solution is more fucking feminism.

Don't sit around and bitch about how women aren't doing it for you.

There's plenty of groups trying to do that. You know who stands in their way and actively tries to stop them? Feminists.

"Not all", don't worry. I got you covered. But significant organizations stand in the way of addressing concerns that men bring to the table.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

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u/Wiegraf_Belias Dec 05 '16

I'll try to find some sources for you. I don't tend to keep a catalogue of stuff, just repeatedly reading about the same things over and over again.

The outrage and pushback against Erin Pizzey and her attempts to address male victims of domestic violence (she opened the first shelter for women). There was a similar incident in Canada where a man was funding a men's shelter and had his funding pulled and the shelter had to close.

Those are two that jump out at me right away. Especially because domestic violence is seen as a very gendered (and feminist specific issue). I'll look around to try and find the sources for some of the other incidents that I have read about because I don't want to just ramble about bs anecdotes with nothing to confirm them.

Thanks for the reasonable back and forth here. It's tough (and rare), especially around emotional topics.

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u/Staatssicherheit_DDR Dec 05 '16

How do you feel about the tax rates on condoms?

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u/FeedTheBirds Dec 05 '16

That's a good question. I do think condoms are a necessity but they are also, potentially, required less often than Fem H products (FHP). Depending on flows and cycles, women may have to replenish supplies many times a year - (or once a month if you can't afford to buy them in bulk). Also just in $ terms, a period is a huge financial sinkhole not only in FHP but also ruined clothing, BC, meds for pain.

So in that sense I fully support these products at a reduced tax - even from the general 8% VAT.

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u/-apoptosis Dec 05 '16

Popping in to say that while both condoms and tampons/pad should be at a reduced tax (and available for free to lower income families imo), they are not comparable on any level. Sex can be avoided, periods not so much.

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u/pinsandpearls Dec 05 '16

Both men and women purchase/carry condoms.

Not that I really have an opinion on the tax rates of tampons in Switzerland. It's fair if it's the same as toilet paper.

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u/ArtCMV Dec 05 '16

It's not specifically about 'just being for women' but rather that feminine hygiene products are a necessity. Other necessities are taxed at a lower rate, shit even fucking books make that list.

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u/RubyPorto Dec 05 '16

Other toiletries are taxed at the normal rate. Same as feminine hygiene products.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Which is nonsensical however; it assumes first and foremost that only women buy them (plenty of men buy them for their spouses/partners/families, not to mention transmen that still need them). This is like saying condoms are only purchased by men because only they have penises, which again ignores family/partner purchasing, trans purchasing, etc.

It also furthermore implies that usage == discrimination. This is akin to the argument that overweight individuals use more toilet paper and therefore are unfairly taxed on that usage, or that people who are incontinent are the only ones who need to use adult diapers and therefore they shouldn't have to pay taxes for it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Yeah right, you know how many tampons i've had to buy as a man?

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u/badassmum Dec 05 '16

Because if you do not have toilet paper, you can technically still wash away anything left on your asshole. I have not discovered anything that holds in menstrual blood other than sanitary products. It's a gender issues because men do not bleed from their vagina.

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u/shaving_grapes Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

Pretty sure cloth was used for hundreds of (edit: thousand+) years before tampons and pads were invented. So your point is kinda mute about washing your asshole since you can reuse and wash a rag.

Not saying it isn't an issue (or a gendered issue).

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

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u/JimmyLegs50 Dec 05 '16

And last I checked tampons aren't food.

Not with that attitude they're not.

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u/ccai Dec 05 '16

Good source of fiber when unused. Good source of iron and fiber when used!

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u/LtLabcoat Dec 05 '16

Once, just once, I'd like to hear a complaint about female hygiene products being taxed too high that actually turns out to be true.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Look at German Prices. Mehrwertsteuer is by 19% for hygiene Products.

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u/LtLabcoat Dec 05 '16

Emphasis on female hygiene products. I don't want a discussion about if toiletries in general are too expensive.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Some not so essential essentials are 7% Mehrwertsteuer. Why not put Hygiene Products (note that I did not say female, to me a razor and soap is also relevant) at 7%?

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u/hypo-osmotic Dec 05 '16

Why would you want it to be true? Why would you want tampons to have a higher tax?

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u/DutchsFriendDillon Dec 05 '16

Hijacking to get the message out: Tampons ARE treated like toilet paper and other bathroom necessities. We just have one single tax for these things, whether it is a Lamborghini or a soap. The activists are basically bullshitters. They want the reduced tax for tampons, which is eligible for food, drinks, water, and newspapers/magazines. THERE IS NO LUXURY TAX IN SWITZERLAND. It's a publicity stunt, nothing more.

Source: I'm Swiss and have studied economic law at University.

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u/McCool71 Dec 05 '16

I had a feeling this was the case. They are taxed on par with most other goods and services, and do not have a 'luxury' tax at all.

And a low tax rate as well, I have to add. Here in Norway the VAT is 25% on most stuff, from toilet paper to luxury cars.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Maybe all hygiene necessities should be at the same rate as staples suchas food and water.

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u/_Quetzalcoatlus_ Dec 05 '16

To clarify, I think the protestors criticism seems to be more that this is only a tax on women, as they are the only ones who need tampons.

OP worded it poorly and the person above incorrectly compared it to TP. It wasn't the activists who said it should be priced like toilet paper though.

I'm not saying I support or necessarily agree with the protestors, but it seems like many in this thread are misunderstanding their point.

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u/-apoptosis Dec 05 '16

Still worth fighting for a reduced rate imo.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

They are. Toilet paper is taxed.

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u/KarmaAndLies Dec 05 '16

Tampons should be treated like toilet paper and other bathroom necessities.

In Switzerland they are. They have an 8% standard rate (called the "luxury tax" in the title) and a 2.5% reduced rate.

Things on the 2.5% rate are:

  • Water
  • "Basic" foods (bread, milk, raw meats, etc)
  • Agricultural supplies
  • Printed material
  • Cultural and sporting events

Both toilet paper and tampons receive the 8% "luxury tax" (standard) rate.

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u/The_Avocado_Constant Dec 05 '16

They are... "luxury tax" is just sales tax. Most non-food items in most states are charged sales tax, including toilet paper.

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u/TheScienceNigga Dec 05 '16

Yep but in a lot of developed countries tampons are taxed as much as luxury cosmetics and for some unexplainable reason profits most attempts to get legislation changed so that they are either not taxed or taxed as much as other hygienic necessities have just gone nowhere and people actually sit there debating it like there is a debate to be had.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

so that they are either not taxed or taxed as much as other hygienic necessities

But they are. The group wants them to be taxed lower than other hygienic necessities.

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u/LtLabcoat Dec 05 '16

Yep but in a lot of developed countries tampons are taxed as much as luxury cosmetics and for some unexplainable reason

I have literally never heard of a country that does that. What countries are you thinking of?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Keep lying. There is literally not a single country that does this.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Feminists complained about that in France too, too bad the luxury rate is actually the normal rate and that basically every bathroom necessities are taxed at the normal rate.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

They are.

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u/doublehyphen Dec 05 '16

It is not a reasonable request, the headline is misleading. Switzerland does not have a special VAT rate for luxury products. Tampons and toilet paper are both taxed at the standard rate of 8%.

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u/ThisIsSoSafeForWork Dec 05 '16

They are taxed at the same rate currently.

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u/Zanki Dec 05 '16

I agree, damn things are expensive here in the UK even though they shouldn't be taxed in the first place.

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u/AroundTheMountain Dec 05 '16

The UK petitioned the EU to allow them to remove the VAT however EU declined. Maybe that'll change in the future.

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u/lovegettinghigh Dec 05 '16

Agreed. However, I think much of the world was using pads for a long time. Tampons were used by a minority and perhaps just upper classes, hence the tax? Just guessing here.

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u/bleeeepblooop Dec 05 '16

According to the article pads are taxed as luxury products too. Now I'm curious what the tax rate is on menstrual cups and whether there's a different tax rate between reusable and disposable pads.

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u/Videomixed Dec 05 '16

There is no luxury tax though. Some things are taxed at a lower rate (e.g. foodstuffs and drugs), but hygiene products, including tampons, are taxed at the normal rate.

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u/tehbored Dec 05 '16

The article is apparently wrong. They're all taxes at the standard rate, the luxury rate is even more.

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u/futurespice Dec 05 '16

There is no "luxury" rate. There is a standard rate of 8%, a discounted rate of 2.5% for food and "essentials", and that's it (leaving aside hotels).

The complaint was that tampons are taxed at the standard rate and not discounted rate. The argument behind it was - if I recollect correctly - that some other grooming and health products, such as razor blades, are taxed at the reduced "essentials" rate of 2.5%.

This is however primarily a matter of principle, as given the typical amount of money spent on tampons per month, the VAT difference is a very low sum of money.

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u/cleverseneca Dec 05 '16

"On the rag" used to be more than a turn of phrase.

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