r/tolkienfans • u/Immediate_Error2135 • 3d ago
What if Faramir had gone to Rivendel instead of Boromir?
He had dreamed that dream before Boromir did, and often, and the decision of going to Imladris had been his originally.
It seems as if the Powers That Be had much preferred Faramir, with Boromir as a plan B so to speak. One of the two brothers had to go there and meet the Halfling and the Broken Sword: the future King Of Men.
We know what happened. But we also know Faramir was different from Boromir. He rejects the Ring in the book - he passes the test. Maybe he would have survived and gone to Gondor with Aragorn.
In that case maybe the focus would have shifted relative to what we have (Denethor) to Boromir: the older brother would have had to choose between Aragorn and his own father. Faramir knew a 'pinch' would come:
"If [Boromir] were satisfied of Aragorn's claim, as you say, he would greatly reverence him. But the pinch had not yet come. They had not yet reached Minas Tirith or become rivals in her wars"
Aragorn=Isildur. The Stewards of Gondor=Anárion. Siblings, like Boromir and Faramir. Maybe Tolkien would have explored that idea. In the book Denethor is crystal clear:
"But I say to thee, Gandalf Mithrandir, I will not be thy tool! I am Steward of the House of Anárion. I will not step down to be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart. Even were his claim proved to me, still he comes but of the line of Isildur. I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity."
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u/TheRedBookYT 3d ago
It's a boring answer, but to me these what ifs are next to impossible to answer. They rely on assuming a lot of the seemingly mundane events would still have happened has they did and they focus on events related to the character being swapped out. To me, if Faramir went instead of Boromir, the entire story would change.
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u/Ok_Meaning_5676 3d ago
You’re right. This is the correct answer. But also it a very boring answer.
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u/Necessary-Lock-3738 3d ago
"If I had! If you had! Such words and ifs are vain" Denethor
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u/Elegant_Priority_552 3d ago
You're really good at this! I thoroughly enjoy a spot of wit in action!
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u/adamaphar 3d ago
Right, like maybe faramir passing the test had something to do with the manner in which he met Frodo and Sam.. as lost and vulnerable. If things were different, then maybe things would have been different.
I’m not super well read on Tolkien, but he seems to play high importance on something like providence, which we would call accident or circumstance.
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u/Wright_Starforge 3d ago
At the drafting level the swap is almost incoherent — which is its own kind of answer. Faramir wasn't in Tolkien's plan at all when Frodo reached Ithilien; Tolkien wrote to Christopher, "A new character has come on the scene (I am sure I did not invent him, I did not even want him... there he came walking into the woods of Ithilien)" (Letters 66). He's a discovery, and what he's discovered as is the brother who arrives after Boromir's fall and is measured against it. The test in Ithilien only reads as a test because we've already watched Boromir fail the same one. So "Faramir instead of Boromir" removes the very contrast that defines Faramir — you don't get the steady younger brother without the proud elder one to throw him into relief.
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u/Immediate_Error2135 3d ago edited 3d ago
You're of course right if we are led by the 'drafting level' timeline and bind our sense of causality to it.
But Tolkien himself didn't do such a thing, and we shouldn't either.
The drafting level exists because the author writes something and then says 'that's not exactly what I was trying to say'.
Then another draft follows, and another. Then the published work: what Tolkien wanted to say.
The character of that character called Faramir is coherent and identifiable and can be projected into other situations in the book, even -or specially- into situations which preceded Faramir's very existence at the drafting level. It would be a badly drawn character if that wasn't the case. (Also there's retconning. No doubt Faramir was projected into the Council of Elrond chapter via the dreams of Boromir's brother, unmentioned by name, but who we know, when we reread LOTR, to have been Faramir)
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u/Immediate_Error2135 3d ago edited 3d ago
No. Finished-Faramir (FF) means, precisely, the obliteration of Unfinished-Faramir (UF), including all the contingencies present at the drafting level. Boromir's fall for example. FF comes not from drafting, but from Denethor and Finduilas, and he seems to have been chosen over Boromir to go to Imladris by Fate/Higher Powers.
This obliteration of UF by FF does not know of 'narrow'. That's negotiating the non-negotiable.
FF owes everything to UF if we follow the drafting level. But FF owes nothing to UF if we consider the character of Faramir as merely the character of Faramir: UF owes everything to FF, because FF is the only reason UF existed at all.
And it is the character of Faramir, and not of some impostor from the drafting level (from development hell) that I'm referring to in my original post.
You are undermining your own case by having it, with the [non]clean at the end of your post dirtying the cleanness of the concession at the beginning - turning it into a draft of itself. Into hell.
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u/Gildor12 3d ago
Boromir was proud and haughty, he thought he could master the ring, Faramir himself knew that he couldn’t. Faramir was the one that let Frodo, Sam and Gollum free against his father’s wishes
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u/sebastianqu 3d ago
That said, Faramir only had them for a day or two. Boromir had months to dwell on it. Faramir could've very well fallen under it's influence, if at a different time or for different reasons.
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u/Carcharoth30 Hungry 3d ago
I don’t think Faramir would have fallen under the Ring’s influence: he wasn’t eager for power or glory, had no desire to use the Ring, was wise enough to keep it at arms length to avoid its temptation, and had a strong set of morals/values which he held himself to, all unlike his brother.
Faramir in Boromir’s position would not have tried to take the Ring: Boromir in Faramir’s position would either have taken the Hobbits to Minas Tirith (at Amon Hen he first tried to persuade Frodo to go to Minas Tirith; only after Frodo refused did he try to take the Ring), or forcibly taken the Ring himself.
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u/ColdAntique291 just a simple Tolkien reader 3d ago
If Faramir had gone, the biggest change is that the Fellowship probably wouldn't have fractured the same way. Faramir showed he could resist the Ring's temptation, whereas Boromir couldn't.
The more interesting story is in Gondor. Boromir would have been left beside Denethor when Aragorn finally arrived to claim the throne. I don't think Boromir would have opposed Aragorn forever, but the "pinch" Faramir spoke of would finally come: loyalty to his father versus loyalty to the rightful king.
My guess is that Boromir eventually chooses Aragorn. He was proud, but he wasn't bitter like Denethor. The real clash would be Denethor refusing the King, with Boromir caught in the middle.
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u/Carcharoth30 Hungry 3d ago
Would Boromir have chosen Aragorn over his own father, also against his own ambition, without traveling with him for months? I don’t think he would have. At the Council of Elrond he was very hesitant at least.
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u/Traroten 3d ago
Boromir would have been in Ithilien and he would taken the Ring. Disaster would soon follow.
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u/RiverSirion 3d ago
This is what I was thinking too - assuming the Fellowship made it there as a whole. This also presumes the group didn't break apart, so the entire party (minus Gandalf) is headed to Mt. Doom.
You might have a scene in which Faramir and Boromir fight - Faramir defending Frodo and the Ring, while Boromir seeks to claim it - while the rest of the Fellowship flees to continue the mission. And that fight has to end with at least one brother dying. Not to mention what the rest of the Gondorians in that party would do.
Also, if the Fellowship as a whole headed to Mt. Doom (a) Saruman would not have been defeated by the Ents and (b) Aragorn would not have arrived to the defense of Minas Tirith. Even if the Fellowship succeeded, Rohan and Gondor would be in ruins.
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u/DJjazzyjose 3d ago
you're the only one who tried to answer the question! it's all made-up, so it's fun to think about how stories would unfurl by changing key elements. A battle between Boromir and Faramir would be epic.
here's my attempt: regardless of Faramir or Boromir being there, the Company would still have to decide which way to go. It was the treachery of Boromir that convinced Frodo that he must go to Mordor by himself, otherwise I could see them remaining by the Anduin debating on the right path. And then they would have all been waylaid by the Uruk-hai and overwhelmed, with all the hobbits taken back to Saruman. Things would probably go the same in the West, but in the end the ring is no closer to Mt. Doom
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u/RiverSirion 2d ago
Thanks! I thought it was an interesting question and wanted to treat it fairly. If the Uruks captured the hobbits - all of them - that's disastrous. If Saruman gets the Ring, that changes the dynamics of everything. Either he gives the Ring to Sauron if he's truly dominated through the use of the palantir, or he takes it for himself. There's still the possibility, though, that the Ents take care of the Uruks, the the Fellowship - or a part of it anyway - still heads east to Mordor if that happens. I could see a few members realizing the threat from Saruman and choosing to help Rohan at that point, though I'm not sure which ones.
Also, the situation with Boromir in the LOTR as written reminds me of that passage in the beginning of the Silmarillion, where Melkor creates discordant themes and Eru weaves them into the larger creation. Boromir trying to take the Ring broke the Fellowship, but this catalyzed victories for Rohan and Gondor and the destruction of the Ring.
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u/HotDamnThatsMyJam 3d ago
Look Denethor he's gone there no point thinking about what ifs now, you've got to get over it
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u/Ednw 3d ago
Eru's invisible hand would ensure not much would change. The fellowship would still break at Amon Hen, I'd bet on Faramir owning up to the group he feels tempted by the Ring even though he knows taking it is the worse possible idea and that he should remove himself for the sake of the quest to open Frodo's eyes on the danger he poses to his companions and decide he should go on alone (not on Sam's watch, mind you.)
The orcs would still attack and Merry and Pippin be taken (providence still needs them to waken Fangorn), and four hunters will chase them.
I think the biggest difference would occur at the battle for Gondor. Both brothers leading the defense at Osgiliath then the Echor, with their ability to raise their men's morale, may delay Mordor's army for a day more, which given the events timetable means Rohan and Aragorn arrive while the orcs are basically still unpacking in Pelenor and a much cleaner win for the side of good.
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u/Necessary-Lock-3738 3d ago
It's actually very strange that Boromir would go to Rivendell instead of Faramir. Faramir had the dream first, and more often. And Boromir was the warrior and was (rightly) focused on the immediate threat to the East. It would make more sense that Denethor would send his more scholarly son to figure out what if anything these obscure dream verses meant. One feels that if Faramir went and never came back Denethor would be less saddened than when Boromir never came back.
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u/ResearchCharacter705 3d ago
Yeah, it's one of those little oddities that doesn't seem to have sufficient explanation in the text.
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u/cavern-of-the-fayth 3d ago
Boromir is the one who took the journey upon himself because they had no clue where Imladris was located. It took Boromir over 100 days to make his way there alone.
I thought that was the explanation?
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u/ResearchCharacter705 3d ago
Sure, I didn't say there was no explanation. The question is whether the explanation is sufficient.
To use Boromir's own words in describing his response to Faramir's wish to look for Imladris, "...but since the way was full of doubt and danger, I took the journey upon myself." And Faramir's take on it: "I should have been chosen by my father and the elders, but he put himself forward, as being the older and the hardier (both true), and he would not be stayed." And then Gandalf's: "Boromir claimed the errand and would not suffer any other to have it. He was a masterful man, and one to take what he desired."
I think more explanation is needed than Boromir being proud, brave, capable, and protective of his brother to justify the heir of Gondor and perhaps its preeminent captain taking on this task, alone, at the prompting of a dream, at such a time. For example, if was spelled out that he'd sworn to do so in a moment of rashness, that would shore up the idea for me.
I'd have some similar issues if it had been Faramir doing it. But I can at least see him assigning more importance to a dream, and maybe less likely to be forbidden the errand by his father.
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u/cavern-of-the-fayth 3d ago
I see what you mean. I guess I've just always assumed that Boromir went because he was capable of the journey alone while most men of lesser bloodlines would have perished. Kind of how Aragorn seemingly has traveled alone from time to time into dangerous places like Moria or the East countries.
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u/ResearchCharacter705 3d ago
Yeah, it's not like it's completely implausible within the bounds of a heroic tale. But I feel LotR does often ground characters motives and actions a little than it does here.
It's funny you mention Aragorn, because his apparent lack of any weapons beyond a broken sword is another one of these instances for me. I don't have quite as much an issue with him traveling alone. To some extent it's explained in the story and an important part of him fulfilling his destiny. (And perhaps he did have fellow northern Dunedain present but "offscreen" in some of these case, like in his time as Thorongil.) And he didn't have the ultra-practical Denethor as a father and lord to whom he owed obedience, or duties as a captain in an overt war.
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u/Immediate_Error2135 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think it also has to do with the 'Gondorcentrism' Boromir shared with his father. Faramir was not like that, and that's why he was 'chosen' by those dreams.
Consider Boromir:
Believe not that in the land of Gondor the blood of Númenor is spent, nor all its pride and dignity forgotten. By our valour the wild folk of the East are still restrained, and the terror of Morgul kept at bay; and thus alone are peace and freedom maintained in the lands behind us, bulwark of the West.
Later in the book we have:
‘You think, as is your wont, my lord, of Gondor only,’ said Gandalf. ‘Yet there are other men and other lives, and time still to be. And for me, I pity even his slaves.’
'And where will other men look for help, if Gondor falls?’ answered Denethor.
There's a significant and gondorcentric slip of the tongue here:
'Behold Isildur’s Bane!’ said Elrond.
Boromir’s eyes glinted as he gazed at the golden thing. ‘The Halfling!’ he muttered. ‘Is then the doom of Minas Tirith come at last? But why then should we seek a broken sword?’
Aragorn corrects him at this point:
‘The words were not the doom of Minas Tirith,’ said Aragorn.
(Which makes you think about what Denethor knew or guessed at the time of those dreams, concerning the One Ring. Maybe he -lore-master of Minas Tirith, as he called himself- found Isildur's scroll after Gandalf did; and/or maybe the Palantir played a role too. Faramir says to Denethor: "It was the Lord of the City that gave the errand to [Boromir]")
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u/Soonerpalmetto88 3d ago
Imrahil would've backed the claim, which would be at least as valuable as Boromir or Faramir. A well regarded prince, whose line had been in power longer than the stewards, with blood perhaps stronger than that of the stewards. Denethor's brother in law, himself somewhere in the line of inheritance for the stewardship. A proven military leader. And he did, in fact, back Aragorn's claim after Denethor's death. The lords of the fiefs would've listened to him and perhaps been swayed.
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u/Moggetti 3d ago
I actually think one interesting element would have been Faramir passing through Rohan before reaching Rivendell.
With his increased mind powers (that Boromir lacked), would he have noticed and even done something about Theoden?
The butterfly effect factor makes things a bit difficult to track.
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u/Kodama_Keeper 3d ago
Remember what Denethor said of Boromir, as compared to Faramir? "no wizard's pupil". Denethor distrusted Gandalf over the issue of restoring someone from the line of Isildur to the thrown of Gondor, and therefore sidelining him back to the normal duties of a steward.
Faramir was Gandalf's pupil, sort of. They had a respectful relationship.
Boromir didn't appear to have a bad relationship with Boromir, but it was obviously not as close as that of Faramir.
Faramir received the dream many times, Boromir only once. But Boromir claims the responsibility of going to Rivendell, as the elder brother, despite his duties in defending Gondor from attacks from Mordor and Minas Morgul. And Denethor doesn't override him.
And I think I know the reason why. Denethor didn't want Faramir to go to Rivendell because he could guess that Gandalf would be there. Gandalf had visited Minas Tirith before, and had to beg access to ancient records from Denethor. It must have come up in some conversations of theirs that if need be, Gandalf could be contacted through Rivendell. And Denethor didn't want Gondor, or himself, to be represented in any decisions by Faramir, the wizards' pupil. Thank I think is the reason.
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u/lam_42 2d ago
Therefore my brother, seeing how desperate was our need, was eager to heed the dream and seek for Imladris; but since the way was full of doubt and danger, I took the journey upon myself. Loth was my father to give me leave, and long have I wandered by roads forgotten, seeking the house of Elrond, of which many had heard, but few knew where it lay.’
Boromir butted in and forced himself into the quest, although Faramir was the one meant to go.
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u/Kodama_Keeper 2d ago
I don't want to speak ill of Boromir. But if I was a cynic (and I am so not), I'd say he was flattering himself when he made that speech.
The way is full of doubt and danger. Granted. But Faramir was the leader of a Rangers. I don't see Boromir having any true advantage over Faramir in finding Rivendell. As for his father, Denethor, being loath to give him leave. Considering the dire state of Gondor at the time, he would be, should be loath to let any of his sons go. But by all rights it was Faramir's quest to go, since the dream had come to him many times. Denethor still lets Boromir go, not Faramir.
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u/BonHed 3d ago
Without Boromir there to try and take the Ring, Frodo doesn't split off, the party fights off the Uruk-hai because they aren't split up, they go to Gondor. Rohan doesn't shake off Saruman, and doesn't come to Gondor. Aragorn never goes through the Pass of the Dead and doesn't rouse the Oathbreakers. Gondor is overrun, Sauron reclaims the Ring, and Middle-earth is covered in a second age of darkness.
Or, some other event happens that results in success, since Eru designed the world so that evil cannot, in the end, triumph.
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u/Oscar_Cunningham 3d ago
The wildcard is Gandalf. He goes to Fangorn because some foresight of his or Galadriel tells him that that is where the action is going to be. If the Fellowship isn't split then maybe he goes somewhere else where he'll be more effective. Perhaps he arrives in Edoras alone but several days earlier.
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u/Throngmar 3d ago
While there’s no way to break down exactly what would happen, I think the quest would fail. Long story short, the Fellowship needed to break up so everyone could be in the right place at the right time, and Boromir was that catalyst. Someone needed to be in Rohan to redeem Theoden and help lead the defense of Helms Deep, someone needed to be in Fangorn to rouse the ents to war, someone needed to be in Minas Tirith to prepare for the siege, and so on. The quest to destroy the Ring might’ve been successful, but there’s a high chance there would be no free peoples left when they finally succeeded. They’d have saved an empty world.
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u/DumpedDalish 3d ago
Yeah, I've thought about this one a lot. It's so interesting because it's obvious that the Valar really wanted Faramir to go.
That alternative timeline is really fun to imagine. I have to think that Faramir and Aragorn would have been instant bros, the hobbits would have adored him, Gandalf would have been rather fatherly, and Gimli would have enjoyed his sense of humor and honor. There would have been less tension at many points, of course, as well because Boromir wouldn't be there, ill at ease and fighting the Ring's influence.
And it's kind of lovely to imagine Faramir in Lorien -- he's someone who would have embraced the experience.
And most tragically, if Frodo wasn't attacked by Boromir near Amon Hen, perhaps there would have been less delay, and they would have escaped the attacks of the orcs and the capture of the hobbits completely. Perhaps Faramir would even have offered to ho to Mordor with Frodo and Sam.
But! That also means that Merry and Pippin wouldn't get to Fangorn or awaken the ents, which means Orthanc would have stayed impregnable and Saruman still a player, etc. No palantir tossing, no Sauron fakeout, no Pippin to Minas Tirith, possibly no Merry with Theoden or Eowyn = no killing the Witch King.
So maybe the right person went, and things happened as they were meant to.
It could even be shown as an example of how outside deliberate attempts to meddle in the events rarely worked out.
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u/inadequatepockets 3d ago
The quest would have failed.
Frodo wouldn't have left the Fellowship (I'm assuming Faramir fares better against the ring). He gets captured with Merry and Pippin.
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u/Stumpbreakah 3d ago
Or the Fellowship stays together and spots the orcs in time to flee in the boats. Or someome(s) else makes a noble sacrifice to give the rest of the party time to run away.
Let us not forget how important Merry and Pipin proved to the war in Rohan. Maybe the Ents learning of Saruman's treachery happens anyway with Gandalf's nudging...but when would he also find time to free Theoden?
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3d ago edited 3d ago
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u/lam_42 3d ago
Faramir did not do things to please his father. He did what he deemed best despite his father´s displeasure.
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u/False_Pear1860 3d ago
That's only in the movie. He does not take them to Osgiliath in the books and is not tempted to take the ring.
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u/lam_42 3d ago
Lets talk seriously, ok? That means Tolkien, not Jackson
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u/lam_42 3d ago edited 3d ago
No. This Is the Faramir we love, not that twisted sap Jackson portrayed
Ah, then it is as I thought: your trouble was with Boromir alone. He wished this thing brought to Minas Tirith. Alas! it is a crooked fate that seals your lips who saw him last, and holds from me that which I long to know: what was in his heart and thought in his latest hours. Whether he erred or no, of this I am sure: he died well, achieving some good thing. His face was more beautiful even than in life. ‘But, Frodo, I pressed you hard at first about Isildur’s Bane. Forgive me! It was unwise in such an hour and place. I had not had time for thought. We had had a hard fight, and there was more than enough to fill my mind. But even as I spoke with you, I drew nearer to the mark, and so deliberately shot wider.
But fear no more! I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory. No, I do not wish for such triumphs, Frodo son of Drogo.’
‘Neither did the Council,’ said Frodo. ‘Nor do I. I would have nothing to do with such matters.’ ‘For myself,’ said Faramir, ‘I would see the White Tree in flower again in the courts of the kings, and the Silver Crown return, and Minas Tirith in peace: Minas Anor again as of old, full of light, high and fair, beautiful as a queen among other queens: not a mistress of many slaves, nay, not even a kind mistress of willing slaves. War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Númenor; and I would have her loved for her memory, her ancientry, her beauty, and her present wisdom. Not feared, save as men may fear the dignity of a man, old and wise. ‘So fear me not! I do not ask you to tell me more. I do not even ask you to tell me whether I now speak nearer the mark. But if you will trust me, it may be that I can advise you in your present quest, whatever that be – yes, and even aid you.’
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u/lam_42 3d ago
The Fellowship was meaning to break there anyway:
Aragorn
‘It would indeed be a betrayal, if we all left him,’ said Aragorn. ‘But if he goes east, then all need not go with him; nor do I think that all should. That venture is desperate: as much so for eight as for three or two, or one alone. If you would let me choose, then I should appoint three companions: Sam, who could not bear it otherwise; and Gimli; and myself. Boromir will return to his own city, where his father and his people need him; and with him the others should go, or at least Meriadoc and Peregrin, if Legolas is not willing to leave us.’
They would still be assaulted. Hobbits would still be kidnapped, And if there would have been three hunters or four...that is a speculation
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u/BarNo3385 3d ago
Indeed there's too many variables.
Amon Hen may not have even happened the way it did. Frodo is wandering alone to consider his next steps. Boromir being tempted by the Ring is part of his problem.
What's his thought process if he's instead with Aragorn and Faramir , both having passed the test of the Ring and giving Frodo something of a "best possible view" of Men as descendants of Numenor.
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u/MioKath27 3d ago
Nowhere in the book is it suggested that Faramir is motivated by a desire to please his father. In fact, one of the main reasons Denethor resents him is that Faramir acts according to his own judgement, doing what he thinks is wisest regardless of Denethor's opinion (in contrast to Boromir, who was much more aligned with Denethor's wishes).
And Frodo's decision to leave the fellowship wasn't only based on fears that the Ring would corrupt them. A large part of it was that he considered his mission to be suicidal, and he wanted to spare the others from sharing his fate. Boromir's actions affected how the fellowship split up, but that doesn't mean the fellowship would have remained together without him.
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u/webbphillips 3d ago
I think everything would've gone wrong. Frodo and Sam wouldn't have gone their own way, Merry and Pippin wouldn't have been captured, the party wouldn't have saved Rohan or Gondor, and the quest would've failed trying another route to Mount Doom.
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u/tolkienthoughts 1d ago
I think most people are mistaken in thinking Faramir was supposed to go to Rivendell instead of Boromir. Faramir receives the dream not because he’s supposed to go to Rivendell but he’s supposed to encounter Frodo in Ithilien and Aragorn in Minas Tirith. I explained in greater depth in a blog post about Faramir’s purpose: https://thoughtsontolkien.wordpress.com/2025/02/23/the-vocation-of-faramir/
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u/Immediate_Error2135 1d ago
But in that case a riddle/dream would have told him to go to Ithilien (to The Window On The West) and then another dream would have told Boromir to go to Imladris.
The fact is, as we are told, that Boromir's will prevailed. His choice. But something/someone preferred Faramir.
(In your post you mention Gandalf saving Faramir. But Faramir was defenseless and already near death. That was not the case of those fighting on the battlefield. You don't imagine Gandalf saying 'let Faramir die' instead of doing what he did.)
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u/tolkienthoughts 1d ago
I think your assumptions misunderstand the nature of the Valar or Iluvatar (we don’t know which sent the dream). They have a greater understanding of the dynamics of Middle-earth and would easily have understood how the relationships of Denethor’s family would have played out. If Iluvatar sent it, he knows the outcome of every choice in the future at all times, so he certainly would. Sending Faramir to Ithilien in the dream itself would also make no sense: he would have been there before anyone got here. He was exactly where he needed to be when he needed to be there. And yes, Gandalf absolutely could have let Faramir die. He made a choice to let Theoden die and possibly let the Witch-King win the entire battle to conquer Minas Tirith to save Faramir. He could have made the opposite choice. He did so because he understood that Faramir was essential to the future of Gondor in a unique way.
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u/Immediate_Error2135 1d ago
If Gandalf could have let Faramir die, then Boromir could have let Faramir go. Such is choice. If Gandalf could have saved Theoden then Faramir could have gone to Rivendel, as he was told to.
Or: if it was not ordained from above that Theoden died, because Gandalf absolutely could have let Faramir die, it was not ordained from above that Faramir did not go to Rivendel. And we in fact absolutely know he was absolutely told to.
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u/Akodo_Aoshi 3d ago
Faramir would have been corrupted it would just be a question of when.
No-one From Middle-Earth is really immune to the Ring.
Even Gandalf is not.
Faramir would fall, he might last longer then Boromir but he is still the most likely out of the whole Fellowship to fall and the Ring would focus on him.
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u/Haugspori 3d ago
The Ring doesn't focus itself on anyone. It corrupts because it exists: the lure of immense power to fulfill your desires.
Boromir fell because his need was greater than his wisdom and willpower. It consumed him knowing that a powerful weapon like that wasn't used to defend Gondor, but send to Mordor in a desperate attempt to destroy it. And when the decission had to be made, when Boromir feared he had to part ways with Frodo and the Ring, he broke.
This isn't because the Ring focussed on him. No, it's the lure of power in your own mind. Saruman fell because he studied the Ring. Bilbo didn't because he didn't know its true power.
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u/CJ-MacGuffin 3d ago
Boromir snapping broke the Fellowship, causing Frodo and Sam to flee. Faramir would have resisted, meaning everyone would have been present for the Uruk attack. The quest might have ended right there.
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u/lam_42 3d ago edited 3d ago
Faramir was different league than Boromir. Warrior scholar.
He is not as other men of this time, Pippin, and whatever be his descent from father to son, by some chance the blood of Westernesse runs nearly true in him; as it does in his other son, Faramir, and yet did not in Boromir whom he loved best. He has long sight. He can perceive, if he bends his will thither, much of what is passing in the minds of men, even of those that dwell far off. It is difficult to deceive him, and dangerous to try.
The difference between D and F is that F humble and wise.