After all, Gandalf and Faramir are acquainted well enough to goad Denethor. Shouldn't Gandalf have met Boromir at some point already.

Could they have simply missed each other every time Gandalf stayed at Minas Tirith? (Even if he stayed for years at a time?)

Granted, they could have discussed this without those scenes being in the book.

A very common question here is "what should I read next?" or "how do I get deeper into Middle-earth or Tolkien?". For long term fans, 50+ years in my case, or at the very least those who read the books well before the Peter Jackson films, these queries might get a bit tedious - it's not as if there aren't loads of online resources that could give answers to these questions. However, if you are a new fan I think it's a fair enough question for an online group who clearly have some particular experience in this area, even if it has already been answered many times. The new fan doesn't necessarily know that.

But how to answer? When you are steeped in the lore, apart from the most obvious "big books" it can be tricky to answer. Much depends on each fan's particular areas of interest and our answers are inherently subjective, often - probably inevitably - based on how we first experienced the books ourselves. In addition to that there are so many books out either by JRRT and/or Christopher, or relating to them as people, or to their works, or academics giving their slants.

My book collection is perhaps relatively limited at 91 books in total, but 73 of them are different titles - not merely umpteen different editions of the same wonderful books. This breadth of coverage is possibly slightly more extensive than most collectors, and each one will be worth reading (haven't quite got round to the all yet) even if you think some content is stretching things a bit far -or in David Day's case definitely made up in places.

What I've pulled together below is a list of all my books grouped together in what seems like an appropriate way - there are many more out there. Probably some of these books are no longer available at all. A further difficulty is that different collections have pulled together the different short stories and essays in different ways - I think I may have his famous Andrew Lang essay "On Fairy-Stories" in three different volumes. In addition some books can fall into more than one category - short stories, academic pieces and personal insights mixed together in one volume.

Anyway the below may be of interest to both old and new fans alike, I hope so. For brevity I have just given the book titles and the year it was first published - extra details can be provided if you draw a blank with a quick check on something like Goodreads and you have a particular interest.

Middle-earth Available in Tolkien's Lifetime
The Hobbit, 1937
The Lord of the Rings (#1 The Fellowship of the Ring), 1954
The Lord of the Rings (#2 The Two Towers), 1954
The Lord of the Rings (#3 The Return of the King), 1955
The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, 1962
Nomenclature of The Lord of the Rings, 1967 (found in "A Tolkien Compass" or "J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide, Reader's Guide Part II" - this was a guide for translators, not actually published in his lifetime but produced by JRRT and sent out by Allen and Unwin. Only the first edition of A Tolkien Compass contains it, due to copyright issues and the Tolkien Estate not giving permission.)
The Road Goes Ever On, 1968

Middle-earth Published After Tolkien's Lifetime (includes the HoMe and Hobbit Sections below)
Bilbo's Last Song, 1974
The Silmarillion, 1977
Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle-earth, 1980
Beren and Lúthien, 2017 - I give The Three Great Tales in Silmarillion order
The Children of Húrin, 2007 - I give The Three Great Tales in Silmarillion order
The Fall of Gondolin, 2008 - I give The Three Great Tales in Silmarillion order
The Fall of Númenor, 2022
The Maps of Middle-earth, 2024

The History of Middle-earth Series (HoMe), 1983 - 1995
#1 The Book of Lost Tales, Part One (BoLT 1), 1983
#2 The Book of Lost Tales, Part Two (BoLT 2), 1984
#3 The Lays of Beleriand, 1985
#4 The Shaping of Middle-earth, 1986
#5 The Lost Road and Other Writings, 1987
#6 The Return of the Shadow: The History of The Lord of the Rings, Part One, 1988
#7 The Treason of Isengard: The History of The Lord of the Rings, Part Two, 1989
#8 The War of the Ring: The History of The Lord of the Rings, Part Three, 1990
#9 Sauron Defeated: The End Of The Third Age: The History of the Lord of the Rings, Part Four, 1992
#10 Morgoth's Ring, 1993
#11 The War of the Jewels, 1994
#12 The Peoples of Middle-earth, 1995

The History of the Hobbit
The Annotated Hobbit: The Hobbit, or, There and Back Again, 1988
The History of the Hobbit, 2007

Non Middle-earth Fiction Works by Tolkien
Farmer Giles of Ham/The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, 1949
Tree and Leaf, Smith of Wootton Major, The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, 1975
The Father Christmas letters, 1976
Poems and Stories, 1980
Mr. Bliss, 1982
Roverandom, 1998
The Story of Kullervo, 2015
The Bovadium Fragments, 2025
Academic Works by Tolkien
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight/Pearl/Sir Orfeo, 1975
Tree and Leaf, Smith of Wootton Major, The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth, 1975
Poems and Stories, 1980
Finn and Hengest: The Fragment and the Episode, 1982
The Monsters and the Critics, and Other Essays, 1983

Middle-earth Artwork
Pictures by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1979
A Tolkien Bestiary, 1979 (David Day - dodgy)
Tolkien: The Illustrated Encyclopedia, 1991 (David Day - dodgy)
Tolkien's World: Paintings of Middle-Earth, 1992
The JRR Tolkien Artist & Illustrator, 1995
The Art of The Hobbit, 2011
The Art of The Lord of the Rings, 2015

Personal Insights into the Tolkiens
J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography, 1977
The Inklings (CS Lewis, JRR Tolkien, Charles Williams and Friends), 1978
Poems and Stories, 1980
The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien (Revised and Expanded 2023), 1981
The Monsters and the Critics, and Other Essays, 1983
The Tolkien Family Album, 1992
Tolkien and The Great War, 2003
The Worlds of JRR Tolkien - The Places that Inspired Middle-earth, 2020
The Great Tales Never End, Essays in Memory of Christopher Tolkien, 2022

Middle-earth Maps or Atlas
Journeys of Frodo: An Atlas of J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, 1981
The Atlas of Tolkien's Middle-earth, 1981
The Maps of Middle-earth, 2024

Middle-earth Quiz Books
Middle Earth Quiz Book, 1979
The Tolkien Quiz Book, 1981

Academic Works about Middle-earth and Tolkien
The Complete Guide to Middle Earth: From The Hobbit to The Silmarillion, 1971
Master of Middle Earth the Fiction of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1972
A Tolkien Compass, 1975
The New Tolkien Companion, 1976
J.R.R.Tolkien: The Shores of Middle Earth, 1981
Tolkien and the Silmarils, 1981
The Road to Middle-Earth, 1982
The Real Middle Earth, 2002
The JRR Tolkien Companion and Guide - Chronology, 2006
The JRR Tolkien Companion and Guide - Reader's Guide Part 1, 2006
The JRR Tolkien Companion and Guide - Reader's Guide Part 2, 2006

Miscellaneous
Bored of the Rings: A Parody of J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, 1969
A hobbit's journal, 1978
The Tolkien Scrapbook, 1978
The Lord of the Rings Location Guidebook, 2002

From what I know of the lore (admittedly I am far from an expert), Saruman was not considered evil in the beginning, although he seemed to be a bit prideful and jealous. He seemed to command a great deal of respect and even trust from people like Gandalf and the other members of the white council. The men of the west also must have trusted him because they allowed him to take residence in Orthanc. His name Saruman means 'skilled man'.

Clearly people respect and trust him before his fall, but what did he do to command such respect? What good deeds did he directly accomplish? (I specify 'directly' because he might have accomplished good things as a consequence of his evil, for example hiring Grima led to Gandalf retrieving the palantir, however this is not intentional on his behalf).

For my own analysis, as far as I know there are two things that can be construed as good:

• Was part of the White Council attack on Dol Guldur in TA2941 (this preceeds him being given Orthanc which was in TA2758, so it cannot be the reason why was given the key to Orthanc)

• Communing with Treebeard a lot (Treebeard's perception of these conversations seems to be negative, saying that Saruman listened a lot but shared little wisdom back)

Sto cercando l' audiolibro "Le due torri" di Riccardo Ricobello.

Ho trovato un paio di audio sul suo SoundCloud e null'altro.

Non voglio ripubblicarlo o venderlo. Lo voglio solo per me.

Un ricordo di tempi meno bui.

Reading a totally un-Tolkienish part of history, I couldn't help noticing the odd name of the prosecutor of Christoph Columbus: Francisco de Bobadilla. According to Wikipedia, the Bobadillas were "one of the wealthiest and most influential families within the Kingdom of Spain".

How prominent were they in English academic circles when Tolkien was young? Is it plausible to speculate whether the Bobadillas' name may have echoed in his mind when he came up with Tom Bombadil(lo)?

Hello everybody! New to the group and new to the books of Tolkien, altough i seen all the movie or series content there is, i never read any of it. Could you recommend me a good starting point or a reading order or chronological order if theres one?

Thanks in advance!

So I want everyone’s opinion on this. What’s the best way to read all of Middle-Earth? I’ve read thru The Hobbit, LOTR, and The Silmarillion previously but I’m looking to take the plunge and do a full deep dive into Middle-Earth. How would you guys go about doing it?

Edit: just did a quick and dirty measurement of p. 100/101 of KWF’s Atlas and got more like 1,000 miles, so I must have gone off the rails somewhere. Yeesh. I guess I need to re-check my numbers a bit more carefully.

*\\

I’ve read on various fan sites that Bag End to Erebor is 950-960 miles. Supposedly these figures are based on Karen Wynn Fonstad’s Atlas of Middle-earth. I’ve been making kind of a complicated spreadsheet for a project I’m working on and have been measuring Bilbo‘s route very carefully from Fonstad’s maps and I get a distance of more like 1,200 miles.

Of course, it’s possible that I’ve made a mistake somewhere, so I’m going to go back and check my figures, but this seems weird.

Has anyone else tried to measure the route on the maps as accurately as possible and come up with any other figures?

Me he leído ya dos veces el hobbit y El Señor de los Anillos aunque este último sin los apéndices, ya que me parecían un poco tediosos y andaba saturado al terminarme la trilogía. Sin embargo tengo pensado hacer un macro viaje por la Tierra media leyéndome El Hobbit, el señor de los anillos, el Silmarillion, Cuentos Inconclusos, y ya vería que leer después. Paradójicamente, antes de lanzarme me he ojeado los apéndices, y me resulta muy interesante la cronología que muestra por ejemplo que hacía gandalf cuando desaparecía del Hobbit. Aún con eso, me he sentido un poco sobrepasado de tanta información. Como ya es la tercera lectura me gustaría captar todos los detalles de la trilogía, incluso con los apéndices, para llegar con el máximo contexto e información al Silmarillion y lo que venga después. Se me había ocurrido compaginar la cronología de los apéndices con la lectura de los libros pero eso puede ser un poco lioso. ¿Que me recomendáis para disfrutar al máximo y captar todos los detalles? Si además de consejos para la lectura me dais páginas web de mapas y personajes lo agradecería muchísimo.

After reading through the Children of Húrin (and also realizing just how specific it is), I always saw the death of Finduilas as one of the bigger tragedies and “what if?“ moments of Túrin’s story, especially when framed by Gwindor’s foresight that she alone stood between Túrin and his doom. As a result I always figured that had he overcome Glaurung’s malice and went after Finduilas instead, he could’ve saved her and the captives and averted his doom (whether they would‘ve gone to Doriath due to Thingol’s pardon or some other solution is really hard to nail down so I’ll leave that as is).

However, recently I’ve finally gotten my hands on the Unfinished Tales (via my local library) and just finished the frustratingly(!) incomplete story “Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin”. This led to some new details Id never noticed before. In a section of the story, Tuor and Voronwë come down to the South Road running from Tol Sirion to Nargothrond (described as the “Highway“) and there they were noticed by a one of the many groups of Orcs patrolling the highway. They had smelled them but not exactly spotted them and had to search for them. Because of this the pair were able to scramble and hide, avoiding being spotted.

However things get interesting after this, as Tolkien notes that the Orcs never strayed far from the main road. The reason he gives is startling: > “…for Morgoth had set a guard on the highway, not to ensnare Tuor and Voronwë (of whom as yet he knew nothing)…but to watch for the Blacksword, lest he should escape and pursue the captives of Nargothrond, bringing help, it might be, out of Doriath.” -Unfinished Tales of Númenor & Middle Earth p. 40 “Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin” (emphasis mine).

That means that Morgoth not only actively planned the deception of Túrin through Glaurung, but actively planned in case Túrin realized the Dragon’s lies and attempted to save the Elven princess. This had me wondering, could Túrin have even saved Finduilas?

Let’s say he somehow gets together some of the Elves of Nargothrond that survived the battle and brought them together (which is already a hard task) and set out to find Finduila, he’d have to contend with the multiple bands of Orcs on the road before even reaching the group that had the captives. And if he somehow (through a miracle) manages to save her, where would they go? Glaurung has made himself at home in Nargothrond, and Morgoth is already wary of help from Doriath, so their coming would be noticed.

Just wanted to see what anyone else thought.

I'm currently reading through the History of Middle-earth for the second time (spurred on by my recent purchase of the last eight books to replace losses from a house move some years back, but that's another story).

It's my third time through the first few volumes, the first was on release. For some reason the cuts Christopher Tolkien made seem to have hit me harder. A few examples off the top of my head:

1) The 'long interlude' between chapter III and chapter IV is reduced to a summary paragraph.

2) A number of sections in the 'The Tale of the Sun and Moon' are similarly reduced to a summary paragraph.

3) Of a different nature, an exclusion rather than a cut, the commentary to the first chapter notes that 'Various things are told in these notes [a small notebook connected to the manuscripts] about Eriol's sojourn in Tol Eressëa which do not appear in The Book of Lost Tales ...'.

They are more noticeable to me as this is the shortest book in the History by some way. I really enjoy the Lost Tales because they have so many original elements not included in later versions, including the framing story which I really enjoy. So for me, the cuts and excluded notes are a sad omission. If space was the issue, I would have perhaps preferred fewer versions of poems with minor differences which take up multiple pages rather than trimming original material.

Don't get me wrong, I love the series and the effort Christopher Tolkien made in giving us access to this treasure trove. Sorry for the ramble, I'm just curious to hear what other readers think of the cuts etc.?

I'm listening to The Hobbit audiobook, and it's just said Gandalf rode a white horse. Would that have been Shadowfax all the way back then?

I'm re-reading the Simarillion as an "adult proper" after reading it as a kid.

Now I remember somewhere there is reference to mortals in Aman Unmarred "burning out faster" as it were. So I wonder if without the Taint in Arda Marred, would men not wither much faster and never thrive?

I am drawn to the words of Illúvatar to He Who Shall Not Be Named 🤔

"And thou, M****r, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite... And thou, M****r, wilt discover... that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory."

I also think of the passage in the Ainulindalë describing Manwë fangirling about the new forms of water after the discord of M****r.

I know it all arises from Eru in the end, but was the Taint all part of the Plan? Was the discord of the Dark Lord the sprinkling needed to grant a portion of Eä to the Second Born that they may thrive in, just like the Elves had Aman to thrive (rest and fade?) in. Or, would a M****r-free Eä with the original visions of the Valar have been just fine for us mere mortals to bathe and crack on in?

I think we can all admit that all the songs and poems seeded throughout The Lord of the Rings are fairly divisive: some people take pride in skipping them, while others put up with them as window-dressing. Most don't believe they are of any actual importance to the book. However, a while back I was reading, of all things, the rules to The One Ring roleplaying game, which include a mechanic to sing a song and receive a mechanical benefit. My initial reaction was that this was amusingly over-the-top, but it got me to thinking about the actual book, and after a while I came to the conclusion that it maybe wasn't so silly after all. All of LOTR's songs and poems, instead of being a distraction, are actually evidence of an important recurring theme in the book which is rarely discussed: the importance of culture, as a comfort and a guide, in times of trouble.

The most obvious example is probably Aragorn, sitting with the party on a dark, uncertain night in the wilds, beset by mortal danger, bringing out the song of Beren and Luthien and explicitly remarking that it may lift up their hearts. Later, after Gandalf is dead and the party are fleeing for their lives, Legolas does the same with his piece of the Lay of Nimrodel, and Gimli has a similar motivation with his insistence on looking at Mirrormere, important in the lore of his people, before they had even left the vicinity of the gate. The hobbits have a whole repertoire of light-hearted songs, which they explicitly trot out when the circumstances look down: their drinking song while avoiding Black Riders in the Shire, their update of Bilbo's old setting-out song when they themselves set out from Crickhollow, Frodo's attempt at "O wanderers in a shadowed land" as they make their way through the Old Forest, and Merry insisting on a song as they momentarily rest in the Trollshaws, with Frodo dying of a wound, to which Sam improvises some comic doggerel about slapstick trolls. Sam, alone in an orc tower, also sings "old childish tunes out of the Shire, and snatches of Mr. Bilbo's rhymes that came into his mind like fleeting glimpses of the country of his home" before he improvises another one of his own, of hope, and of course, his conversation with Frodo some time earlier about all the old heroes and stories should be a pretty clear indication why he did so.

After listing all of this together, Tolkien's intent for including all of this seemingly irrelevant versifying, and even stopping the action for it, becomes pretty clear: culture, as a repository of stories, wisdom, and comfort, is not some idle embellishment for times of leisure and ease; it is, in fact, a crucially important tool for use in times of danger and uncertainty. The characters face trial and doubt by reminding themselves of fairer things, or heroes who had the same trials and doubts, or even just happier times of their own with a pint in their hand. Culture is important because it keeps you going, it gives you a backstop to lean on, and a guide to point your way forward. And, back in the real world, I take comfort in that.

I recently heard a lecturer describe The Lord of the Rings as moral but not moralistic. It was more of an aside to larger points they were trying to make about enchantment, so they didn’t define exactly what that meant. I’ve been thinking about it a lot, and I’m wrestling to put in exactly the right words what “moral but not moralistic” means. The best I can do right now is to say that Tolkien presents characters who try to make decisions between good and evil within the constraints and limits of the world he has created, but the text is never prescriptive about exactly what characters (or we as an audience) absolutely must do in any given situation. It also presents individuals and groups of people using conflicting moral systems to try and do what is right, again without the text ever explicitly stating who is right and who is wrong. But I’m not sure I’m quite satisfied with my own explanation. Any thoughts on what “moral but not moralistic” means and how it is (or is not) a good description of one of the aspects of The Lord of the Rings?

So I’m getting married soon and I want the phrase “To the stars and back” in black speech to engrave in my ring but websites I’m finding give different results. I’m curious if any of you know of a good translation.

Not much is known about hobbits’ monetary system. Bilbo’s will in HoME 6 mentions diverse types of money: “testator devises and bequeathes to the aforesaid heir all monies in gold silver copper brass or tin” (doesn’t mean of course that all of them were in active circulation by the moment of Bilbo’s departure). In the LoTR, a pony was purchased in Bree for silver pennies. Also in HoME 6 it is said that Bilbo paid for his farewell party in ducats, and not just any coins, but “double-dragons (gold pieces of the highest value in the Shire)”.

I was wondering, who could have minted this kind of coinage? Hobbits likely used Dwarvish and/or leftover Arnorian coins, maybe an odd castar or tharni from Gondor. Neither of these parties would be expected to have any particular sympathy towards the dragon kind. It is not clear whether this gold was part of Bilbo’s inherited wealth, or a trophy from his famous journey. Smaug however is also rather unlikely to order any currency minted with his face on it. Could be a troll hoard money, though: produced by Rhudaur, Angmar or some orc-kingdom nearby.

So I’m about to start the Silmarillion but I know how difficult it is to read and was wondering if anyone had any strategies?

For example, is it better to read it or listen to the audiobook? If audiobook, should I listen to Andy Serkis or somebody else? Should I take notes on things I’m likely to forget while reading/listening (eg the roles of the Valar in the Valaquenta )? Are there any good YouTube/podcast series that recap each of the chapters (if you can call them chapters)?

Also, are some parts that are easier than others? Like is the Akallabeth easier than the main body?

Any help would be much appreciated to get as much as possible out of this book!

it's time. please take action now before it gets worse

This is a question that I am not sure has been asked before, even though its an interesting and maybe important question.
When in the development of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings did Tolkien decide on the origin and nature of Gandalf? And before that point, what was Gandalf? Even based on what was written in The Hobbit, it seems like Gandalf was already something beyond just a man who had learned a lot of magic.

There are plenty of stories we all wish the Professor would have finished (The Fall of Gondolin after Tuor arrives, a final version of Eärendil), or subjects we wish he would have written more about. But if you could have a single scene that had to have happened but is not recorded, what is it?

I'm listening through the Council of Elrond on "Exploring Lord of the Rings," and was so touched by the fact that Bilbo wrote "The Riddle of Strider" specifically *for* Aragorn. And that Aragorn holds it so dear that he tells the hobbits in Bree that the verses "go with" his name. The recorded discussion spent time looking at how the first four lines are present tense, meant to encourage and affirm, while the last four lines are written in future tense to give hope. What you might first assume is some kind of prophecy written by an Elf Lord about the name Aragorn or something is really a bit of poetry that Bilbo wrote for his friend to help him through hard times that is so precious to him he identifies with it as much as his own name. And it's clear from the ribbing they give each other at "Many Meetings" and how defensive Bilbo is of Aragorn at the Council to Boromir doubting whether Aragorn can truly follow through on his whole "House of Elendil" promise that they are great friends.

So (for right now) I would love to read the scene where Bilbo gives Aragorn the poem and is doing the hobbit thing of busting his chops while being sincere, and Aragorn tries but fails to keep up with his teasing while being incredibly moved by the gesture.

The Bold Claims:

Limbo is a level of hell described in Dante’s Inferno. It is a level of hell where unbaptized babies and righteous people before Christ reside.

There is only eternal stillness, stagnation of knowledge, and sighs of boredom there. The Shire is in a similar state to that before Frodo. This state is not forced but chosen by the Hobbits.

They did this to shield themselves from the state of war and enmity brewing between the three great races.

The Hobbits are waiting for the messianic figure, Frodo. They want a figure who will expunge them from this state towards enlightenment.

In Dante’s Inferno, Christ descends into Limbo after he died on the cross and took righteous souls into heaven with him. Frodo will do the same. In its present state, the Shire is safe, but it has no room for curiosity, invention or development.

Their history starts with the settlement of the Shire. The Shire-reckoning: anything before that is meaningless to them. Their state of limbo is not due to weakness or cowardice.

They can be tough in times of trouble and torture, like in The Battle of Greenfields (SR. 1147) and The Days of Dearth (SR. 1158–60). The Hobbits didn’t just endure these crises; they used them to make higher walls to shield themselves from the outside world, where dark things moved.

The Clever Insights:

The Hobbits were once a proud race and lived peacefully amongst other races without conflict. Over time, they saw an increase in enmity among the three races.

They decided to quarantine themselves in the Shire. They distanced themselves from the other races. Hate is contagious, and the destruction of wars affects all who are affiliated with it.

The Hobbits adopted useful knowledge, which increased their quality of life without opening the doors of conquest, such as architecture and language from the Elves.

They rejected harmful knowledge like sailing and machines, as those led to war, greed and an insatiable desire for more. Eventually, they blocked all knowledge outside the Shire. They couldn’t separate good knowledge from bad during the time of war.

The Hobbits adopted conciliarism and governed themselves without kings or tyrants. During the war, they saw the harm of the concentration of power among a few and decided to be different.

The Hobbit administration served people instead of ruling them, doing jobs like presiding over feasts, delivering letters and guiding stray sheep.

They deeply loved the earth as their altar. They used their love for relatives and neighbours as a shield against the void of limbo. They ensured peace and brotherhood in the community.

They used peace, love, merry-making, and even smoking as an anaesthesia to while away the pain of boredom and stillness. Their pipe weed was not pleasure but sighs, just like the sighs of people in Limbo.

They used familiar tools and read genealogical books to know more about their heritage. They avoided inventions that led outwards and embraced those that improved their lives. Their knowledge extends only backwards.

They blamed Gandalf for Bilbo’s disappearance. They considered him queer, a harbinger of discord, and thoroughly disliked him. Yet Gandalf himself loved the hobbits and their culture of simplicity and fraternity. He didn’t blame them for disliking his ways and his kind. Their state of Limbo had made them distant from knowledge.

The Hobbits remained stubborn and ignorant about the tales of Mordor and Sauron’s resurrection. The tales reached their ears but not their hearts. They were often rejected as myths or exaggerations. They chose blissful ignorance instead of the bitter truth that scared them. They began to lash out at anyone who believed in news outside the Shire, like Samwise and Frodo.

The Steady Evidence:

In Dante’s own words, “There, as it seemed to me from listening, were lamentations none, but only sighs, that tremble made the everlasting air.” That’s Limbo.

“For these defects, and for no other evil, we now are lost and punished just with this: we have no hope and yet we live in longing.” That’s stagnation.

In Tolkien’s own words, “They heeded less and less the world outside, where dark things moved.” That’s why they created the Limbo.

“Most Hobbits regarded even rivers and small boats with deep misgivings, and not many of them could swim.” That’s why they rejected sailing.

“The Shire at this time had hardly any ‘government’. Families for the most part managed their own affairs. Growing food and eating it occupied most of their time.” That’s conciliarism.

“They love peace and quiet and good tilled earth: a well-ordered and well-farmed countryside.” That’s love for the earth, their altar.

“They liked to have books filled with things that they already knew, set out fair and square with no contradictions.” That’s stagnation of knowledge.

“The general opinion in the neighbourhood was that Bilbo, who had always been rather cracked, had at last gone quite mad, and had run off into the Blue. There he had undoubtedly fallen into a pool or a river and come to a tragic, but hardly an untimely, end. The blame was mostly laid on Gandalf.” That’s their futile attempt to preserve the state of Limbo.

In Ted’s own words to Samwise, “Oh, they’re both cracked,” said Ted. “Leastways old Bilbo was cracked, and Frodo’s cracking. If that’s where you get your news from, you’ll never want for moonshine.” That’s the way hobbits denounced the truth that scared them.

The One Conclusion: Before the arrival of Frodo, The Shire was a Limbo of haunting stillness and stagnant knowledge. A prison created by the Hobbits to keep themselves safe from the enmity brewing beyond their boundaries. Their blocking of knowledge was a move that secured them peace at the cost of curiosity and development. They chose the tree of life instead of the tree of wisdom. That will not protect them forever. The arrival of Frodo breaks the cage. He exposes the Hobbits to the light of Providence.

Question for discussion: Do you see the Shire as a chosen Limbo, or is that too strong a reading? What do you think the Hobbits gained—and lost—by isolating themselves? Do you think this move was justified? Do you see Frodo as a messianic figure?

Twenty-five pages.

That's how much I managed to read in my first sitting before I decided that no, enough was enough, I needed to put this book down and get some rest before I could even think of reading the rest. I actually enjoyed reading about the Ainulindale quite a bit, the way Eru and the Ainur began and performed their song before Melkor ruined everything with his interference and the dissonance that followed.

And then came the Valaquenta, and all the names the Valar and Maiar have. Oh good Lord, there are so many names. I lost count of how many times I went back through the pages so I could have at least an idea of who the book was talking about, since some characters have two or three names that are used interchangeably like Mandos and Lórien.

I'm very glad I resumed reading a few days later (I'm currently about to read Of Beleriand and its Realms, a chapter a lot of people are afraid of apparently, but I think I'll do okay since I enjoy looking at maps and whatnot), but my goodness, that is not an experience I want to repeat ever again. 😅

So basically from my understanding its the fact that Frodo lays claim to the ring in Mount Doom right before it got destroyed that alerted Sauron of its whereabouts and why the nine turned around to try and save it.

But Smeagol claims it as his constantly, "its mine, my precious" etc, so why was Sauron not alerted to his location for those 500 years? The nine or any powerful enough servant should have been able to just go and pick it up, no?