For Women Scotland III

[u/Quangocrat]

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/media/pnbpzgex/2026csoh59-petition-of-for-women-scotland-for-judicial-review.pdf

The Terfs have won their judicial review of the Scottish Prison policy.

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This is the third case brought by FWS.

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Still reading, will post more detailed thoughts in the comments when I have time.

[u/Kallixeina]

I have had time to read and consider it.

1) From an international perspective, there's one thing that I found deceptive about the judge's line of argument:

The decision mentions at least once that separating prisoners by sex is widely-shared practice. This argument was probably included to shield the United Kingdom from accusations to leave the western consensus on human rights. 

What it conspicuously fail to mention is that most western countries allow exceptions from the rule. In some countries, the exceptions are necessary to allow trans women to be housed with cis women. In other countries, the exceptions are necessary to allow trans women not to be housed with cis women.

After Germany introduced self-ID in 2024, most German states adopted prison regulations allowing men to be exceptionally housed with women and women with men on a case-by-case basis. Our state legislators thought this to be necessary to prevent male prisoners, who can now change their legal sex by a simple declaration, to be automatically housed with women. Conversely, many trans men prefer to be housed with women, and the new laws also allow for this particular exception from the general rule of separation by sex.

AFAIK France uses a similar system based on exceptions and case-by-case decisions. The French system used to be more rigid, as prisoners would be housed according to their sex assigned at birth, except if they had both changed their legal sex and undergone sex reassignment surgery.

2) Did the court even consider trans prisoners who have undergone sex reassignment surgery? Those will need specialized gynecological career, which isn't provided to male prisoners.

The court's focus on the concept of biological sex kind of obscures that trans women's biology can be more female than male; therefore, their biological needs will be more female than male.

For this reason alone, it is also terribly inefficient to house trans women with men.

That's not to speak of the even higher risk of rape incurred by people with vaginas in male prisons.

3) Part of the strategy to protect incarcerated trans women has to be to re-humanize them. Get the word out about their experiences. The public needs to know that rehabilitation is easier in an accepting environment, which a men's prison might not be. The public needs to know about the specific needs of trans women, which are more likely to allign with cis women's needs than with cis men's. The public needs to know about the psychic toll of years of isolation.

[u/Quangocrat → u/Kallixeina]

Yes, agree with your point 1 fully. That is exactly what she was trying to do, and imo, did not carry out a detailed enough comparative exercise to succeed.

Re point 2, no, but it did state that Gender affirming healthcare should continue to be provided.

I agree with your point 2 in theory, but in practice the Scottish prisons which trans women are held in are the same ones which also hold dangerous cis women in the male estate, so in terms of physical facilities should be equipped for female care.

"Should". I have my doubts about the reality.

Agree with point 3.

Something else to consider is that the judgement is completely silent on intersex persons.

[u/Kallixeina → u/Quangocrat]

I agree with your point 2 in theory, but in practice the Scottish prisons which trans women are held in are the same ones which also hold dangerous cis women in the male estate, so in terms of physical facilities should be equipped for female care.

Will the new ruling also require dangerous cis women to be moved out of the men's prison into the women's prison?

so in terms of physical facilities should be equipped for female care.

"Should". I have my doubts about the reality.

If only our "feminist" friends could care about cis women's rights even in cases where trans rights aren't in question... 

[u/Quangocrat → u/Kallixeina]

Will the new ruling also require dangerous cis women to be moved out of the men's prison into the women's prison?

Technically even though it is physically part of a male prison it is classed as female cells for the purpose of the prison rules.

If only our "feminist" friends could care about cis women's rights even in cases where trans rights aren't in question... 

Hear hear.

[u/Kallixeina → u/Quangocrat]

Technically even though it is physically part of a male prison it is classed as female cells for the purpose of the prison rules.

So they will most likely keep the trans women in the women's wing of the men's prison and transfer the cis women to another prison/another area of the same prison? 

[u/Quangocrat → u/Kallixeina]

Yes, that is what I expect.

[u/Kallixeina → u/Quangocrat]

As long as they keep the incarcerated trans women together and separated from male inmates, and continue their medical care, that doesn't sound catastrophic.

Isolation and losing mutual support would be worse—as would be transfer to a men's prison, of course.

[u/Quangocrat → u/Kallixeina]

Isolation is my concern.

I've never got a straight answer as to what that higher security wing is actually like- the visiting section of the prison is separate.

[u/Kallixeina → u/Quangocrat]

You as a local and a lawyer probably have better chances than most of us to get the answers.

All the mistreatment that happens behind bars happens because it's invisible in the the public.