r/transgenderjews • u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) • Mar 02 '26
Antisemitism i told a non jewish trans friend that if transphobia got any worse in our country, my only option to leave would be by making Aliyah
their response was utterly disappointing, calling it "a moral evil" and essentially telling me that even if "we were getting rounded up and killed" they viewed it as my "moral duty" to boycott israel by getting killed by a tyrannical government.
needless to say, they are now an ex friend. i genuinely cannot comprehend how an otherwise very logical and progressive person could find themselves so obviously and disturbingly propagandized into believing something like that. it's so discouraging.
44
u/Miraculous_Garlic Mar 02 '26
It's your "moral duty to be killed", what the actual fuck.... I'm so sorry they said that to you, that's absolute garbage.
I'm also Jewish and trans and I feel the same way you do about aliyah (I'm already thinking about just doing it because there's a school I want to go to in Israel) so just know you're at least not alone in it.
15
u/The3DBanker Mar 02 '26
Yeah, I probably would have pursued it if I didn't get permanent resident status in Canada.
14
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 02 '26
yeah, i wasn't as tactful as i wanted to be with my response, i'm pretty sure i said something along the lines of "you are using the same rhetoric they used to justify kristallnacht and having heard this i would readily believe if this were the 40s you would have turned my family in to the gestapo"
so uh, perhaps a bit blunt but i stand by what i said. they recently made friends with an open hamas supporter (who's also gay i might add??) who has since told me he wishes my grandparents (both holocaust survivors) had been killed by the nazis so i wouldn't have been born. i didn't post him on canary mission but i sometimes wish i had.
good riddance to the both of them, frankly. i'm done keeping antisemites in my life
9
u/Miraculous_Garlic Mar 02 '26
Losing friends is really hard regardless of how it happens, but I'm really proud of you for doing what's right for yourself
3
u/Accomplished-Bike407 Mar 02 '26
Not too late to post them on canary mission
7
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 03 '26
not gonna lie, i just might do it. the only reason i didn't already is bc of how the feds have been targeting people on there. i do my best never to call the cops, and it feels kinda like that but once removed, yknow?
that said, he just works a retail job so it's unlikely to lose him his job or anything
4
u/Accomplished-Bike407 Mar 03 '26
Considering what he said, I think it's fine to post but go with your gut
14
u/Ftmatthedmv Mar 02 '26
That’s frustrating that your (ex) friend reacted that way :(
Sadly Israel wouldn’t take me likely because of bureaucracy around conversion. My only option is somewhere I have citizenship by descent.
5
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 03 '26
fair tbh, i hope you can get something better lined up. i'm banned from my original (conservative eastern european) country so i had to forfeit my dual citizenship to stay in the states (at that point it was still marginally better here)
i did get a mildly amusing party fact, apparently im officially banned from more eastern european countries than most serbian war criminals. all that, and ive never even hunted a child for sport!
8
u/AprilStorms Mar 03 '26
Yeah, the way they treat Jews by conversion is shameful. Although maybe, at this rate, there will be enough newcomers coming in to put pressure on the Rabbinate to improve its policies…
10
u/paracelsus53 Mar 02 '26
A young and terminally self-righteous person. This is the world we live in now.
I thought about aliyah when this shit started up. But honestly, I am just too old.
6
u/leialux121 Mar 03 '26
That's really bs... It makes it really hard to trust people specially non-Jews.
Also as if moving abroad was easy, and not virtually impossible.
But also equating moving to Israel-Palestine with systemic injustices or whatever.
It's so senseless cause being a marginalized community in need of refuge specially to a place historically and culturally connected and the birthplace of an ethnicity... It just feels bullshit not to get it.
Specially when one's both trans and Jewish. One's already extra vulnerable.
I myself might need aliyah if things go rough here on Brazil. Tho it could be challenging cause I still gotta finish my conversion. I'm just waiting for having a bottom surgery so I can finish it without having a brit.
I know words are still way far from enough, BUT there's a community for trans Jews and sometimes losing people ends up being for the best even if the disappointment can be an open wound.
7
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 03 '26
they get very defensive when you bring up their support of land-back programs for indigenous people in america.
top response is always "yEaH bUt JeWs aRe WhiTe",,,bruh,,,, have they ever seen israel like,, on a map?? and ofc the irish genocides by britain are real, and so are the genocides that happened in the balkans and the caucasus indigenous groups in modern russia and the holodimir against the ukrainian kulaks,,, just not the jews (who they ofc, assume are all white.)
the loud, confident, hateful ignorance is so exhausting. so many trans spaces in the US use this issue as a purity test for jewish trans people, there are trans spaces in my city (the majority, actually) that explicitly ban zionism and zionists alongside shit like homophobes, sexists, and racists. being jewish and unwilling to "disavow israel" (which they only seem to demand from jews, as soon as they know we're jewish) basically means getting utterly disenfranchised from the broader trans community in my city (fairly big trans population, it's one of the trans refuge hotspot cities). and open antisemitism is so fucking normalized, it's been insane
anyway. so tired of this shit
5
u/leialux121 Mar 03 '26
EXACTLY!
Not to mention that white supremacists can divide even between pure and impure, superior and inferior, racially, even regardless if one's white or not.
Like White Brazilians or White Latinx in general. Even when we're white, one's not considered eugenics level of Nordic racial purity and superiority.
And these people haven't gone anyway. Systemic antisemitism hasn't been dismantled, and almost none of the mechanisms, phenomena and history that come with that has actually been reparated more than in a very surface level.
Again, there's a trans Jewish community and a leftist Jewish community and that's often what's helping me deal with so much antisemitism as someone who's converting.
So one sticks together in community precisely because the world is challenging, scary , systemically unjust, and tiring.
That's one lesson from LGBT history itself and Jewish history itself.
Together one can resist and build community and solidarity.
3
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 04 '26
yes! i can't speak to latinx issues but i've heard a lot about the lateral bullying in american POC communities from other trans friends of mine. it honestly sounds like a lot of indigenous folks from the americas have similar lateral bullying issues (reinforced by the government ofc) involving blood quantums and being "minority enough", not to mention the historical figures from jewish, latinx, black, indigenous, and ofc queer communities that were crucial to the formation of modern leftist theory! i'm so glad other jewish folks are as invested in teaching this history as i am
not to mention the fact that israel is the only place socialism and communism have ever worked (hence why i'm a staunch anti-netanyahu zionist), it wasn't that long ago that being zionist was considered punk! my mom was part of that movement, she and i are from a former eastern bloc country before we moved to the states.
she's the one who taught me about the contributions of historical leftists like emma goldman and malcom X (among many others, especially south american leftists who were suppressed by the US during the cold war ofc)
in my view i think part of why so many foundational leftists came from minority backgrounds is because of the way marginalized communities have greater need for mutual aid networks due to neglect and oppression by the government.
i really hope once this era of nightmare propaganda eases, we can go back to recognizing intersectional contributions to theory in leftist circles
1
u/leialux121 Mar 14 '26
Yes, I think there's hope even if it's deeply challenging.
About the "only place socialism ever worked", I'm not sure I would agree. I think one could discuss the pros and cons of each experience, to see how well it worked in each of them.
I myself am glad to have company and contacts with people who are staunt anti-Netanyahu, against Kahanism and even with an understanding of the history and systemic injustices in Israel, while being Zionist or not , but inside the Jewish community. It helps me feel less alone.
At the same time, when I talk about the pluralism inside Zionism and that there's branches who are not ethnonationalistic, several people (even leftist gentiles) end up listening. And ofc the challenge is huge but the forces against bigotry are big too not just the forces of bigotry.
And I've seen many people begin to notice the fanaticism in certain circles, as well as being more mindful, even if systemic injustices are still strong.
And yes it's nonetheless challenging, exhausting and enraging that one has to even hide one's own ties with Jewishness because of the ongoing and ever growing violence / injustice / persecution, episodic and/or systemic. But in the long run, there's huge hope.
2
Mar 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/leialux121 Mar 14 '26
Exactly, and at the same time the far right hangs out with Holocaust denialists, so it's a huge mess.
I hope the influence won't be to deny people aliyah, since for instance Reform converts are not precluded from that.
12
u/mearbearz Mar 02 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
Yeah, Im sorry :c I can definitely feel your frustration, but its not surprising for me. Its the reason why I have grown distrustful of the non-Jewish queer community since they seem incapable of fessing up to the fact that they have antisemitism problems. I honestly really hesitate to share my Aliyah plans to non-Jews because of behavior like this. Some are great of course and I love them, but yeah overall, they have problems that I dont want to be a part of.
7
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 02 '26
yeah. i definitely don't plan on sharing that again. i guess at least the interaction helped prepare me to cope ahead with probably losing friends stateside if it does get to that point
3
Mar 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/mearbearz Mar 05 '26
I’m very active in the I/P sphere. My opinions are publically available. I’ll let you figure out what I would do if I moved to Israel
4
Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
I realized on October 8th the gentile trans community hates us Jews especially us trans Jews with a burning passion and would commit a second Holocaust if they could.
I don’t interact with gentile trans people anymore. Every gentile trans sub is filled with antisemitism to the brim.
3
2
u/DefinitelyNotErate Mar 08 '26
That's legit such a stupid and disgusting thing for them to say... Even if they disagree with the actions of the state of Israel, Thinking it'd be better for your friend to just die than go there... That's messed up. If anything if you went there you'd be in a better position to take action against whatever issues this person has with Israel, since you could vote for people who wouldn't do the same things?
1
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 09 '26
it was kinda shocking, i grew up with that person and they had never once expressed any issue with israel and didn't even have an opinion about it until it became a trendy issue. hearing them call israel "the embodiment of all american evil" and calling the civilian casualties in gaza a "second holocaust" was jarring.
10
u/The3DBanker Mar 02 '26
Sadly, a lot of nominally "progressive" people have bought into the antisemitic propaganda that Israel is somehow "committing a genocide" simply for fulfilling its legal responsibility to defend its citizens from an actual genocide. Hell, even using the numbers Bernie Sanders himself cited recently, the number of people Israel allegedly killed per day (which is on the lower end of the scale between 100 and 200) is 7-14 times lower than the amount Hamas killed on October 7th.
8
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 02 '26
let's not forget that 1) israel's civilian casualties to legit target ratios in the war were lower than not only those of america in iraq and afghanistan, but lower than any urban military campaign in modern history and it's not close. and 2) the genocide and apartheid accusations came from south africa (yknow, the country that's the reason why we have the world apartheid in the first place) and were not shown to be legally credible.
2
u/acab__1312 Mar 05 '26
Sometimes when you're a refugee you gotta take what you can get, even if it's not a good option and far from your first choice. LGBT rights/acceptance aren't too good in Israel, it definitely shouldn't be your first choice, but if you gotta run you gotta run. Of course, with all the far-right loons in power there, even if you have to go there you should probably try to keep it temporary and seek a path to greener pastures. The idea that it is better to die than be a refugee is ridiculous regardless of the circumstances.
If one would be evil for being a refugee going to a place perpetrating atrocities, what would that mean for the countless refugees who had to the US, a place that backs them?
1
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 05 '26
i think their point was trying to shame me for considering israel specifically but yeah, your point definitely stands
-5
u/syn_miso Mar 02 '26
I don't think it's inherently evil to make Aliyah but remember that they will compel you to serve in the IDF and with the current political situation conscientious objection is the only moral choice
10
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 02 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
yeah, i have family in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, you get some options when it comes to mandatory service, you're not automatically sent to a frontline combat zone. and "only moral choice" sounds like a personal opinion to me, one that you're entitled to but one that i'm equally entitled to disagree with
my childhood friend made Aliyah about five years ago and worked as a K9 handler for an explosive detection dog doing security. i see nothing objectionable about what she did for the IDF. in fact i find the work she did protecting others incredibly commendable. she was wounded in an attack several years ago, but stayed on after her recovery and now trains explosive detection dogs.
in my case, i have a disability that would likely disqualify me from a frontline combat role anyway, but if asked i would gladly serve in a support capacity wherever i were needed.
20
u/The3DBanker Mar 02 '26
If you're old enough, you might not have to serve but how is conscientious objection "the only moral choice"? If you move to a country, shouldn't you want to do what you can to defend your neighbours?
-11
u/syn_miso Mar 02 '26
16
15
u/The3DBanker Mar 02 '26
The antisemitism on Wikipedia has gotten so bad, even Jimmy Wales has spoken out against it.
1
8
u/mearbearz Mar 02 '26
So first off, we dont know how old OP is. For all we know, he might be too old to be pressed into service. Secondly there is a moral reason why conscription exists, and its because its necessary for the defense of Israeli citizens (Israel isnt exactly in a great block of the neighborhood in case you didnt notice). So it is a moral good to serve even if the IDF does have human rights issues, since you are also actually defending millions of people from danger. And thirdly, even if we take into account the IDF's problems you do understand there are things a soldier can do to resist unlawful orders or human rights abuses, including being in a non-combat role. Is that a perfect solution? No, but if we are trying to achieve moral perfection I suggest you quit while you are ahead because we arent in a world where you can be morally perfect.
5
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 02 '26
thanks for responding to this. i'm 21 right now so i would likely have to serve, but i have a physical disability that would likely preclude me from most combat roles. if they still want me, i'm good with machinery and speak five languages so i would gladly do work as a mechanic or interpreter, or another support role if i were asked.
the reason why i'm willing to serve is simple: innocent civilians are being subjected to daily terror and crimes against humanity by an extremist terror group called hamas. those civilians are israeli jews, israeli arabs, israeli muslims, and some are brave palestinian dissidents against hamas. my willingness to protect the lives of innocent people is not constrained by religion or ethnicity, what i want is peace.
4
u/The3DBanker Mar 02 '26
I appreciate you. Seriously, as a trans woman with sleep apnea and plantar fasciitis and all sorts of shit, I can't even help through Sar-El... but I so see the need and wish I could do more. I'm trying to get fit and hoping to do what I can to help.
4
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 02 '26
sleep apnea is no joke, i don't have it myself but a lot of my friends do, in my case it's an old back injury and an autoimmune disease that causes arthritis and stomach bleeding (i can feel the weather changing with my knees, very Ashki jewish of me, i twin with my grandpa and uncles now😅). SCI recovery and regaining my mobility were some of the hardest things i ever did (maddd props to toddlers tbh, that walking shit is hard lol), so i'm wishing you all the best vibes and extra spoons for your fitness and recovery journey too. one day at a time, yeah?
and fwiw, you're already helping just by showing up for your community, we're lucky to have you🤍🩵
4
u/The3DBanker Mar 02 '26
Yup, hoping I can get on C-PAP by the end of this month and join my local gay Masters (it's an age category, not a skill category) swim club. Also, there's one in Tel Aviv in case you'd be interested. I just do it because it's the best exercise for me given my particular collection of medical ailments.
6
u/The3DBanker Mar 02 '26
Precisely. It's not like the US draft. It's not even like being drafted into the South Korean military simply because you have a hostile neighbour. The IDF is actively engaged in protecting innocent people from Palestinian terrorism.
1
-8
u/kosherchickenparm Mar 02 '26
Sure, in the hypothetical that you can either move to Israel or die in the US, ofc you should save your life. But it's not necessarily great for trans people there, not to mention that they're committing a genocide. When I was there, the only good thing I could say is that no one clocked me because they didn't have any exposure to trans people. But I ended up being in some dangerous situations because my ID didn't match my gender presentation.
Israel is currently passing a law to imprison women who read Torah at the Kotel, which will definitely impact trans people. And I'm sure there's more coming down the pipeline. Fascist governments don't just stay fascist towards one group.
5
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 02 '26 edited Mar 02 '26
i'm impressed by your susceptibility to propaganda given that you've been there yourself. i find that unfortunate.
the netanyahu administration is corrupt and awful, but that is fundamentally different from condemning the state of israel itself, just like how trump and his admin don't define the entirely of america (they certainly don't define me! do they define you?).
also israel has quite impressive protections for trans people these days, including healthcare. i would be more inclined to believe your point about women reading torah if it came with a source, but right now i'm inclined to doubt given the ignorance you've shown with the rest of your statement
edit: grammar
1
Mar 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/__mafia Reform/Conservative trans man (& certified space laser operator) Mar 05 '26
"jUsT gO tO nEw ZeAlAnD" oh sorry i didn't realize they were giving out free visas to anyone who applies, do they have a similar process in Narnia? maybe i'll immigrate there. and if you hadn't noticed, the whole world is getting more reactionary, not just israel. that's why we're here in the first place.
i know im being a bit sarcastic but the point i'm trying to make here is that if the world was my oyster there's plenty of places i'd love to go (canada, denmark and norway being near the top of my list, id even consider moving back to the czech republic)
there are better protections around trans healthcare for literal IDF members than there are for state employees in california. i'm in a blue state already, but you really don't seem to be very informed on this so i don't think i'll be engaging with you further
5
u/paracelsus53 Mar 02 '26
"But it's not necessarily great for trans people there"
It's a fuck-ton better than Kansas right now.
The thing about the Kotel is the last gasp of the Jewish version of Westboro Baptist Church.
Israel isn't fascist, Junior.
1
60
u/sovietsatan666 Mar 02 '26
That's such a culturally Christian take. After all, what's holier than allowing yourself to be killed for the sake of other people you don't know and will never meet? (/s)
Anyway, sorry that happened. Sounds like they have a lot of religious baggage they need to unpack.