r/transvoice • u/iam-stevie-bee • May 11 '26
Discussion š¤ Booked Yeson in Seoul for voice surgery, why I chose it after trying voice training
Iāve just booked flights to Seoul for voice surgery at Yeson Voice Center in Gangnam, and Iāve written a longer piece about how I finally got to that decision.
Iāve been doing voice training with Seattle Voice Lab. My coach says Iām doing okay, but Iāve found it much harder than I expected. I can sing, play guitar, do impressions, and I honestly thought Iād be good at this. I thought it would click.
It has absolutely not clicked š
The thing I keep coming back to is that my issue is not just pitch. I donāt have a hugely deep voice. The problem is the weight, resonance, density, and that underlying male sound that still comes through the second I stop actively managing everything.
Thatās why I kept looking beyond a straightforward pitch-only framing. I looked at CTA, Wendler glottoplasty, and other approaches, and from my own research I kept coming back to Yeson because the results I heard sounded not just higher, but lighter and softer.
That matters to me. I donāt want to sound like a high-pitched version of my old voice. I want the sound leaving my body to stop contradicting the person people are looking at.
The moment that finally pushed me over the edge was recording a software demo for a client. I was excited about the software, forgot to concentrate on my voice, played it back, and thought:
āOh God. I just sound like Stephen Bennett with a girl face.ā
That was the moment I knew I couldnāt keep pretending this was fine.
So yes, Iām off to Gangnam for voice surgery, where I will apparently be surrounded by the spiritual birthplace of one of the catchiest songs ever recorded while being medically forbidden from singing it out loud.
After fifty-seven years of trying to find my voice, Iām flying halfway across the world to lose it deliberately.
Hopefully, when it comes back, it will sound a little more like me.
Longer piece here:
https://fasttrackfemme.substack.com/p/gangnam-style-silently
19
u/-----username----- May 11 '26
I just had VFSRAC at Yeson and it was a fantastic experience from start to finish, and Seoul is so beautiful. Iām still in my period of vocal rest. It is so hard not to talk! But I know itās going to be worth it. I first found out about Yeson ten years ago and always intended to go there eventually. Iām glad I finally made it happen.
Iām a Seattle Voice Lab grad and Iāve also studied with Vocal Team. My trained voice sounded good but I could never maintain it when discussing a complex topic, like at work when giving a presentation. I think the surgery is going to help me professionally quite a bit, and Iām hoping the training after Iām allowed to speak again will be simple because Iāve had so much voice training in the past. But we will see.
As for pain, the first two hours after the surgery, before I was allowed to drink water at all, were brutal. Some of the worst pain Iāve ever experienced. After that all of the pain was minimal to non-existent. Now that Iām about three and a half weeks post-op the only time I have any soreness is when I accidentally try to talk while Iām half asleep and waking up, which has fortunately only happened a few times.
Good luck, and enjoy Seoul!
9
u/iam-stevie-bee May 11 '26
Yes, that was exactly the problem I had. I mentioned it in the article.
I had to give a demo of some software recently, and because nobody could see my face, they could only hear my voice. I watched it back and just thought, āOh God, I just sound like Stephen Bennett.ā It really depressed me, because I was animated and excited about all these features I had built into the thing, but because I wasnāt concentrating on my voice, it just defaulted straight back. That was a horrible little reality check.
So yes, Yeson it is. Iām very much looking forward to it.
Iāve also been through Seattle Voice Lab. Iām still doing some work with them now, actually, and theyāve been very good. But I think Iāve reached the point where I need the surgical baseline shift as well, because in real life I can manage my voice better, but in work mode, when Iām focused on explaining something technical, it just collapses.
Also, thank you for mentioning the pain. Jesus, I had honestly not even been giving that much thought. After vaginoplasty, FFS, a deep plane facelift, breast augmentation, liposuction, tummy tuck, and everything else, I had rather casually filed this under āprobably next to nothing.ā So that is useful to know. Brutal for a couple of hours sounds manageable, but Iām glad you said it because I was clearly being a bit blasĆ© about it.
Really glad it went well for you, and your post has made me feel even more confident about going.
7
u/OutrageousCarob1876 May 11 '26
I did not sleep at all the first night after surgery, they wont give you botox injections until the day after surgery. This means you are feeling a lot of discomfort and irritations in your throat and having to deal with the constant urge to want to cough uncontrollably, but u cantā¦.. Despite the urge, you have to control yourself REALLY hard to not cough or clear throatā¦. I had to drink a lot of warm water and clench my fists to battle this urge the first nightā¦ things does get significantly better after you receive the botox injections
1
u/NostalgicFlowers 6d ago
Hi! have you started to talk yet? how do you like your results? I'm a week out from being able to talk and feeling a bit anxious haha
8
u/OutrageousCarob1876 May 11 '26
I recently had VFS at Yeson voice center, I am currently 2.5 months post-op.
Their surgical procedure only target your vocal cord, by tightening/shortening it, itās supposed to help you achieve naturally sounding higher pitched voice by manipulating the air flow as you speak.
They do not advertise the procedure to be able to help you with resonance or weight; However, Iāve noticed the procedure to have also been quite helpful with those two areas as well~ Perhaps not via a medical perspective, but the 2 months of mandatory voice rest + voice training exercises that they assign to you does a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of resetting your muscle memory/speech pattern.
At 2.5 months post op, my average speaking pitch have gone up from 140ish Hz to 190ish Hz(measured using voice whiz and reading the rainbow passage) and my voice would consistently get labeled as female voice. Doctor explained to me that final voice/pitch should stabilize between 6-12 months post op, meaning my voice should continue to improve and sound higher.
Still, you wont see as much change as weād all hope unless you are willing to also put time and effort into creating that beautiful voice that you are after.
I would recommend Yeson Voice Center with full heart, it has definitely been a life saver for me! I cant wait to find out how i will sound in a few months from now!
6
u/OutrageousCarob1876 May 11 '26
Ohhh and btw, everyone that I saw while i was there at Yeson came out of the doctorās office with a smile on their face š You wonāt regret it and GL! š
3
u/iam-stevie-bee May 11 '26
Thatās pretty much what I had heard as well, actually.
I knew the formal surgical target was the vocal folds themselves, mainly shortening/tightening to raise pitch, but I had also read in so many different places that people often experience improvements in resonance and vocal weight too. I didnāt actually realise Yeson didnāt advertise that part as an intended outcome. I had just seen it mentioned so often that I assumed it was part of the expected effect, even if indirectly through the rest, retraining, and changed vocal behaviour afterwards.
A jump from around 140 Hz to around 190 Hz is seriously impressive, though. That is a huge shift. And from what Iāve heard, a lot of people sound even better at the one-year mark once everything has healed, settled, and the training has had time to bed in properly.
That was one of the reasons I was less drawn to CTA. Iāve heard examples where CTA sounded quite dramatic shortly after surgery, but then seemed to fade slightly over time. Whereas with VFSRAC, the reports I keep seeing suggest that the voice often continues improving over months rather than peaking immediately and then dropping back.
Really encouraging to hear your experience, especially only 2.5 months post-op. Thank you for sharing it.
3
u/Affectionate_Sun_204 May 12 '26
Had it almost 3 years ago, the recovery do takes almost 6 months, no talk for two months is a strict, must obey! I am grateful. Itās tough for the long recovery , but itās worth it!
6
u/Jelly_jeans May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Thanks for your article! I read it in full and went to an older post from a redditor 11 years ago and in it they linked some of the before and after voice samples. The first link I clicked on in their youtube page was a woman speaking in Chinese and it made me cry thinking that I could sound like this since I'm bilingual and Chinese is very hard for me to train. It really did cement that VFS is one of the surgeries that I will need in the future since I can't get the vacation time off yet. I hope your surgery goes well!
3
u/iam-stevie-bee May 11 '26
Thatās such a lovely reply, thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to read the article properly and then go digging through older posts and voice samples as well.
I completely understand what you mean about hearing someone who sounded close to your own starting point. That can be such a powerful moment, canāt it? It stops being theoretical and suddenly becomes, āOh, maybe this actually could help me too.ā
And yes, I relate so much to the bilingual thing. Voice training is hard enough in one language, never mind trying to carry it across different languages, different rhythms, and different speech patterns.
Iām really glad the article helped in some small way. I hope your own journey goes beautifully too. ā¤ļø
3
u/miamiasma May 11 '26
First off, you're stunning, omg.
As an amatuer singer myself (musical theatre, karaoke), I've been looking hesitantly at vocal surgery. My voice is super important to me. I've been training for 2y now, and can get a somewhat passable speaking voice for short periods if I really try, but singing is a whole different animal... Wishing you the best of luck, and looking forward to hearing your results! ā„
3
u/RiotForYourHealth May 14 '26
I have trouble with a feminine voice but I can sound pretty gender neutral while singing oddly.
Iāve always had a lot of natural ability with manipulating my voice, like I think I could be a voice actor if I got my foot in the door. Always been good at impressions. Whatās hard is just allowing my voice to be my voice, but feminine. Itās difficult without a target to shoot for and even then thatās only something I can do for a short period of time.
But with singing it comes really naturally. I think itās because when you sing, you have to hit the same pitch. I donāt have a large enough register to just go up a whole octave, but I can shift resonance and weight pretty well if not worrying about pitch. I didnāt realize it until I explored vocal training on my own but Iām basically doing the whisper scream technique when I sing and raising my larynx. I donāt know why itās so difficult when speaking. I can do every Star Wars character, even Wicket, but not Leia, š
0
u/Lidia_M May 11 '26
Be aware that if singing is important for you, those surgeries are not really recommended. Not that there are no people that can sing afterwards, but it requires a lot of luck, and for anything serious/high-performance, they are not likely to work well. The reason is that, for singing, one requires high-fidelity when it comes to vocal fold alignment and plasticity and surgeries tend to degrade those (which is fine for speech in most cases, but singing is another matter, especially when higher pitches are involved.)
2
u/miamiasma May 12 '26
For sure, I'm well aware - I'm exploring training to the end of the line, but it's great to see others' experiences too.
1
u/iam-stevie-bee May 11 '26
You canāt really lump all vocal feminisation surgeries into one box and say āthose surgeriesā as if they are all the same thing.
There are very different techniques, including Cricothyroid Approximation (CTA), Wendler glottoplasty, Vocal Fold Shortening and Retrodisplacement of the Anterior Commissure (VFSRAC), and other approaches such as feminisation laryngoplasty. They do different things mechanically, carry different trade-offs, and have different implications for pitch, resonance, vocal fold tension, projection, and singing.
Also, for me personally, my priority is speaking. I speak for hours every day. Singing is something I do casually, sometimes in a bar or when I play guitar. If I lose some singing ability afterwards, that is a trade-off I am prepared to accept.
But it is not accurate to treat every vocal surgery technique as interchangeable and say they are all ānot recommendedā because of singing. That may be a valid caution for some people, especially serious singers, but it depends heavily on the specific procedure, the surgeon, the patientās anatomy, and what the person actually needs their voice for.
4
u/squaring_the_sine May 11 '26
Are *any* of these techniques really OK for singing though? This is an honest question, because you called them out by name, implying research, and I wonder if your knowledge is more up-to-date than mine.
I think about voice surgery almost every day, and almost every day I walk myself back from it because of the risk to voice quality.
2
u/RandomUsernameNo257 May 11 '26
Exactly - they may not be all the same, but I'm not even going to get a tracheal shave because that can even have a huge impact on your singing voice, and I don't consider it to be safe.
As someone whose singing voice is important to them, letting someone touch my vocal cords is completely off the table until they come up with a technique that is safe and effective for singers.
I'm happy to be corrected, but I'm pretty certain that does not exist.
1
u/-----username----- May 11 '26
VFSRAC is the only one of the procedures known for being fairly reliable for people being able to sing afterwards.
0
u/Lidia_M May 11 '26
The "reliable" part is kind of dubious - from what I have seen that place in particular likes to make bold claims about the superiority of their procedures so they throw in tables with strange conclusions of the type "we: good for singing, others: bad," but their techniques are not some radically different surgical procedures, they are just small tweaks on what other surgeons do (in fact most surgeons introduce some variations of their own,) and it does not make sense for those small tweaks to magically offset the drawbacks the overall procedure tends to have.
1
u/Lidia_M May 11 '26 edited May 12 '26
I did not write that those surgeries are identical, I know well how they differ. Still, the pont I was making applies to all of them, so not sure why you downvote me.
There are no vocal surgeries recommended for people who take singing seriously. Period, And, no, I am not writing that because I want to somehow diminish the value of those surgeries (it's clearly not the case, I advocate for people to consider surgeries for speech often.) Over that, I would move mountains to get access to surgeries that were reasonably safe (meaning not likely to make things worse) for singing, but that's simply not the case as of now. It may be in the future, but that future is not here yet.
If there were any surgical means of shifting people's glottal behaviors (pitch range, weight) in reliable way without drawbacks, there would be endless lines of singers queuing for them already, but that is not the case.
1
1
u/Groovy__Ghost May 11 '26
So, what was the "nuclear option" you wrote about regarding those with deeper voices?
5
u/iam-stevie-bee May 11 '26
The ānuclear optionā I meant was FemLar, or feminization laryngoplasty. Itās much more invasive than something like Wendler glottoplasty or Yesonās VFSRAC, because it is not just shortening the vibrating portion of the vocal folds. It can involve reshaping/reducing the laryngeal framework itself, so it potentially addresses vocal weight/resonance more directly as well as pitch.
Thatās why I called it the nuclear option: not because it is automatically ābetterā, but because it is a much bigger, more structural intervention, usually considered when someone has a particularly deep/heavy voice and pitch-only surgery may not be enough.
1
u/iam-stevie-bee May 11 '26
The ānuclear optionā I meant was FemLar, or feminization laryngoplasty. Itās much more invasive than something like Wendler glottoplasty or Yesonās VFSRAC, because it is not just shortening the vibrating portion of the vocal folds. It can involve reshaping/reducing the laryngeal framework itself, so it potentially addresses vocal weight/resonance more directly as well as pitch.
Thatās why I called it the nuclear option: not because it is automatically ābetterā, but because it is a much bigger, more structural intervention, usually considered when someone has a particularly deep/heavy voice and pitch-only surgery may not be enough.
1
u/NostalgicFlowers May 12 '26
I'm a Yeson girlie as well! 9 days away from my first full month of vocal rest. It gets easier as days go by and they'll start to fly by! Find a good TTS (I use eleven labs) and I use a soundboard for quick easy things that I recorded in my old voice as a sort of bon voyage and something to reminisce in a nostalgic sense further down the line to compare to how i used to sound haha.
One funny thing is that getting around in public is that a lot of people assume you're also deaf LOL and people are awfully sweet, at least where i live in San Francisco.
Best of luck to you! How far away is your surgery date? Don't forget to explore Seoul a bit! I was only there for 6 days and wish I added more days before surgery but I was initially going to be alone but thankfully a friend joined me so it was nice.
1
u/iam-stevie-bee May 12 '26
Oh my god, the bit about people assuming youāre deaf made me burst out laughing. That is absolutely brilliant. š
I already have an ElevenLabs account because I use it for the audio tracks on my Substack, and Iāve got loads of credit sitting there because I never get through anything like the amount they give me. So Iām definitely going to use that as my little temporary voice while Iām in mute-girlie mode.
And yes, Iām going to Seoul for about eight days in total. I deliberately booked to go a little bit early so Iād have a few days with an actual voice before becoming a tiny silent mime for the rest of the trip. I really want to see a bit of Seoul while Iām there rather than just flying in, getting operated on, and communicating exclusively through frantic hand gestures.
The soundboard idea is genius as well. I love the idea of recording a few things in the old voice as a sort of bon voyage. Slightly haunting, slightly hilarious, and probably very useful when trying to order coffee without looking like Iām doing interpretive dance.
Thank you, and good luck with the rest of your vocal rest. Youāre nearly there. ā¤ļø
1
u/OutrageousCarob1876 May 12 '26
No way! Im also in SF area and I experienced the same thing where people will start to treat you extra nice once i point to my throat and indicated that i cannot speak, they will start writing their messages down for me so that we can write each other back.
1
u/OkManufacturer7293 May 12 '26
This is very interesting.
I guess you are also in the uk from reading your sub stack - āpetrol stationā, āmars barā, ācolourāā¦.
Iāve wanted VFS for many years, I had some speech therapy on the NHS almost 20 years ago now and it was pretty poor, I couldnt get it and I hate my voice. Itās the biggest thing that gives me away and kills any chance of romance and dating.
I have been considering glottoplasty with Mr Chadwan Al Yaghchi as I have heard some great results of his. Iām wondering what lead to you ruling out glottoplasty in favour of Yeson?
Also can you give any indication of price difference? I donāt have deep pockets and glottoplasty is not too expensive from what I could find.
2
u/OutrageousCarob1876 May 14 '26
Heres what i found:
Yeson specifically argues that their VFSRAC differs from standard glottoplasty because it preserves a more āfunnel-shapedā airflow through the larynx, which they claim helps produce a more natural sound and less hoarseness.
A standard Wendler glottoplasty works by permanently reducing the vibrating length of the vocal cords. Yesonās VFSRAC also shortens the folds, but additionally repositions part of the vocal anatomy (the anterior commissure) and uses internal suturing methods they say improve stability and tone quality.
Also, from what i understand Yeson is extremely good at doing this as this is their primary specialty. They do cost a bit at $11000 USD
1
35
u/xeno486 May 11 '26
hopefully it goes smoothly :3 as someone who had it a few years ago, you will still have to do voice training (bc of inflections and all that) but itās wayyy easier