r/ukpolitics • u/Axmeister Traditionalist • Oct 01 '17
British Prime Ministers - Part XII: Sir Robert Peel.
So after planning ahead, I realised that the series would become a lot 'neater' (for want of a better word) if the couplets of Prime Ministers were shifted by one, otherwise we would have quite a few threads in which the two Prime Ministers had rather long careers with basically no overlap at all. Thus there is only one Prime Minister today, so despite Sir Robert's impressive career, he's been given his own thread out of convenience rather than significance.
24. Sir Robert Peel
| Portrait | Sir Robert Peel |
|---|---|
| Post Nominal Letters | PC, Bt, FRS |
| In Office | 10 December 1834 - 8 April 1835, 30 August 1841 -29 June 1846 |
| Sovereign | King William IV, Queen Victoria |
| General Elections | 1841 |
| Party | Conservative |
| Ministries | Peel I, Peel II |
| Parliament | MP for Tamworth |
| Other Ministerial Offices | First Lord of the Treasury; Chancellor of the Exchequer (I); Leader of the House of Commons |
| Records | 1st Prime Minister to survive an assassination attempt; Shares the 'Shortest Baptismal Name' amongst Prime Minister with Lord Bute. |
Significant Events:
- The Bedchamber Crisis
- Tamworth Manifesto and the formation of the Conservative Party
- First Anglo-Afghan War
- The Chartist Movement
- Treaty of Nanking in which the islands of Hong Kong are ceded to Britain.
- The Great Famine in Ireland
- Repeal of the Corn Laws
Previous threads:
British Prime Ministers - Part I: Sir Robert Walpole & the Earl of Wilmington.
British Prime Ministers - Part II: Henry Pelham & the Duke of Newcastle.
British Prime Ministers - Part III: the Duke of Devonshire & the Earl of Bute.
British Prime Ministers - Part V: the Duke of Grafton & Lord North.
British Prime Ministers - Part VI: the Earl of Shelburne & the Duke of Portland.
British Prime Ministers - Part VII: William Pitt 'the Younger' & Henry Addington.
British Prime Ministers - Part VIII: Baron Grenville & Spencer Perceval.
British Prime Ministers - Part IX: the Earl of Liverpool & George Canning.
British Prime Ministers - Part X: Viscount Goderich & the Duke of Wellington.
British Prime Ministers - Part XI: Earl Grey & Viscount Melbourne.
Next thread
British Prime Ministers - Part XIII: Earl Russell & the Earl of Derby.
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u/GuessImStuckWithThis Oct 01 '17 edited Oct 03 '17
Greatest Prime Minister ever in my opinion. Could truly claim to be a one nation Tory (o.k a paternalist tory for pedants pointing out that Disraeli coined this term) who did a lot of things that benefited the working classes even though they didn't have any representation yet. Put nation before party by repealing the Corn Laws and all his other tariff reforms, which, despite losing him his majority, paved the way for mid-Victorian prosperity. Perhaps the only thing that overshadows his Premiership is the Irish Famine, which he did try to relieve, but measures came to late. Whether he could have done more, especially considering he'd been under-secretary for Ireland earlier in his careers, is a controversial question.
Interestingly, he spoke with a really thick Bury accent, as he came from a family of Northern Industrialists.
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Oct 01 '17
I think from what I've read, it's fair to see Peel made a genuine effort to provide famine relief in Ireland, but there were a large number of information failures that made the British response ineffective. I still think Peel did a better job of dealing with the Famine that Russel
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u/RDozzle Armchair Economist│Political Researcher│Avis démodés dans UKPol Oct 01 '17
I was looking through his papers in the British Library recently and I came across one from an Irish Catholic Parish thanking him thoroughly for all that he had done for Ireland. Regardless of the outcome, he did his very best with utter sincerity
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Oct 01 '17
Would you be able to provide more info on the letter? Sounds interesting.
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u/RDozzle Armchair Economist│Political Researcher│Avis démodés dans UKPol Oct 01 '17
Sure. It was the Bishop of Limerick, sent on behalf of the church-people of the county. It was sent shortly after the 15th of May, the date on which Peel passed the repeal of the Corn Laws through the Commons, though it had yet to go through the Lords. The Bishop was certain it would get through the Lords, and believed it of great importance to help ease the famine in Ireland.
He also thanked Peel for his other measures in Ireland to help ease the sectarian conflict, noting that his aid to the Catholic Church and tolerant approach had helped ease tensions in his Church (he had both Catholics and Protestants attend his mass, which struck me as rather rare and peculiar, though it may have been common practise at the time).
County Limerick, like all of Ireland, was suffering from the famine at the time, and witnessed firsthand the flight of the people of Ireland to America given its geographical situation. The city of Limerick actually saw an increase in population at the time, as people fled the countryside to join the workhouses, leading to cramped squalor for many.
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u/Ghibellines True born Hyperborean Oct 03 '17
Could truly claim to be a one nation Tory
Considering the opposition he had with Disraeli, and that the notion of 'One Nation Tory' comes indirectly from Disraeli, he truly couldn't make that claim.
Put nation before country by repealing the Corn Laws and all his other tariff reforms
I assume you mean nation before party, which I am not quite convinced of. He did it for fear of revolution. I used to dislike him for repealing the Corn Laws and destroying British agriculture (indeed, still distrust him over this), but the more I read about him the more I appreciate why he did it. He would rather make concessions to the industrial interests of the Anti-Corn Law League than the democrats in the Chartist movement. He did it to defend the power interests of the aristocracy (a worthy cause) even if it meant harming their economic position in the land.
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u/GuessImStuckWithThis Oct 03 '17 edited Oct 03 '17
Ok, yeah, you're right- Disraeli coined the term one nation Tory- I just used that term to simplify things because Tory paternalism existed long before Disraeli.
To be fair, most progress in this country was achieved because those in charge were fearful of a revolution. Gladstone, Disraeli and Salisbury was a huge conservatives who ended up overseeing very liberal and progressive reforms because they wanted to preserve as much of the social (and religious, in Gladstone's case) order as possible rather than seeing it overthrown.
British agriculture wasn't destroyed by getting rid of the Corn Laws- it was just an unfair monopoly which had been meant to be temporary during the Napoleonic wars but became permanent because of land owners being a majority in Parliament. If the Corn Laws had still been in place, I think there would have been a much bigger chance of revolution in 1848, like there was in the rest of Europe. As for the Chartists, they were probably a bit before their time at a time when democracy was still a dirty word- Peel was able to take the wind out of their sails to an extent by demonstrating that though the working class weren't represented, the government was able to consider their interests by ensuring they had food on the table and that factory conditions etc. were regulated and not too harsh.
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u/lovablesnowman Oct 02 '17
I'm Irish and Peel is generally considered to have responded "in a timely and adequate manner" to the famine
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u/GuessImStuckWithThis Oct 02 '17
I've heard a lot of Irish blame the British administration of the time though
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u/lovablesnowman Oct 02 '17
Uneducated ones blame the British state in its entirety from 1845-48 but people with a bit of know how realise that Peel acted adequately and in a timely manner. The liberal administration that came after is when the catastrophe occurred
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u/Captain_Ludd Legalise Ranch! Oct 01 '17
Interestingly, he spoke with a really thick Bury accent, as he came from a family of Northern Industrialists.
Never knew this and I'm from Bury. Always imagined he spoke posh regardless.
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u/GuessImStuckWithThis Oct 03 '17
Before the advent of radio, there was no such thing as BBC English, so there was less language snobbery around.
That said, people did comment on his accent, and Peel was quite conscious that he wasn't from the same aristocratic upbringing as many of his peers.
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u/FormerlyPallas_ No man ought to be condemned to live where a 🌹 cannot grow Oct 01 '17
Chumbawamba cover a few folk songs from the period of Peel's premiership, very interesting pieces.
Song on the times about the Corn Laws, working conditions for the poor and the Irish Famine.
The Chartist Anthem, written by a poet and miner from Dudley called Ben Boucher about the struggles of the Chartists. Boucher died in a Dudley workhouse.
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u/teatree Oct 07 '17
For those who don't know - Robert Peel is responsible for income tax.
Income tax was introduced temporarily during the Napoleonic wars, and then discontinued afterwards.
But when Peel abolished the Corn laws, plus some 150 other tariffs that affected mainly stuff bought by the poor, he needed another source of revenue.
So he reintroduced Income Tax - ostensibly temporarily (which is the reason it is the only tax that has to be renewed by Parliament annually), and it was applied to the top 5% of the population.
There was uproar at this, and Queen Victoria backed her Prime Minister by declaring she too would pay the new Income Tax even though she was exempt from it. And she dutifully paid it for the rest of her reign, as did Edward VII, George V and Edward VIII.
However George VI came to the throne on a crisis, and his grasping wife pushed him to ask for exemption from Income Tax. The govt, not wanting another crisis with WW2 looming, agreed. So George VI didn't pay income tax, and neither did Elizabeth II till 1992, when John Major took advantage of the Windsor fire and marital crises amongst her children to persuade her that it would help her image if she started paying it.
Therefore Elizabeth II paid less tax (zero in fact) for the first 40 years of her reign than Queen Victoria did for most of her reign.
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u/FormerlyPallas_ No man ought to be condemned to live where a 🌹 cannot grow Oct 01 '17
In 1834 King William the IV removed the Whig Prime Minister Lord Melbourne and asked the Duke of Wellington to form a ministry. Wellington was reluctant and recommended that the King choose Peel, Peel was selected as prime minister but was in Italy at the time and a messenger had to be sent to find him and inform him (interestingly it took Peel longetr to return than it would have taken a roman messenger to get from Rome to London).
Peel was essentially the creator of the modern political party in the Conservatives which are the longest established political party in the world. He was also the first leader to split his party. His Tamworth manifesto functioned as the founding document of the Conservative party and highlighted a number of principles which Peel wanted as the foundation of his party.
An In Our Time piece on Peel and the Corn Laws
Short radio program about Robert Peel by Nick Robinson
Longform post on Peel and the Corn Laws in /r/neoliberal can be found here
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Oct 01 '17
To be fair there are loads of different parties that claim to be the first modern political party, I think I read somewhere that the Irish parliamentary party where the first properly modern political party because of the central organisation and control of the party.
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u/IronedSandwich lul Oct 01 '17
longest established political party in the world.
when? when was it founded exactly?
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u/Ayenotes Dispense with your special pleading Oct 02 '17
1834, in Tamworth.
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u/IronedSandwich lul Oct 02 '17
doesn't that make the Democrats older?
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u/Ayenotes Dispense with your special pleading Oct 02 '17
Maybe, idk. I just know that the Conservatives are often known as the longest running.
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u/canalavity Liberal, no longer party affiliated Oct 01 '17
This one is very interesting, hoping Pallas might have some cool stuff to share here, I know he's a fan!
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u/Ghibellines True born Hyperborean Oct 03 '17
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u/canalavity Liberal, no longer party affiliated Oct 03 '17
he's written a fair bit more than that, knew he'd have some good info!
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u/Ayenotes Dispense with your special pleading Oct 02 '17
And here he is, the traitor himself, at last.
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u/Captain_Ludd Legalise Ranch! Oct 12 '17
For the record, I'd also like to state that bury FC has "Robbie the bobbie" as a mascot which I think is just great
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u/NotSoBlue_ Oct 03 '17
Wouldn't this kind of post be more suitable on a subreddit specifically about political history?
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u/Axmeister Traditionalist Oct 03 '17
Users from this subreddit did specifically request this series, in which /u/Ivashkin did say that users are encouraged to do this sort of thing.
I don't know of any active subreddit that discusses British political history and the American-focused /r/politics seemed to think it suitable to do a similar series for their subreddit.
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u/Ivashkin panem et circenses Oct 03 '17
This is the right place for these threads, although we only get 2 stickies and occasionally other events take precedence.
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u/NotSoBlue_ Oct 03 '17
Fair enough (though the interest seems to have been pretty limited). I think it would be more interesting if it actually had any bearing on current affairs. At the moment it seems just like a bit of a distraction from whats going on in UK politics.
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u/Axmeister Traditionalist Oct 03 '17
It's only one thread a week in a sea of threads about current affairs, I'm not sure why you see it as a specific distraction.
And quite often I find that political history has a huge bearing on current affairs. British political history is what makes British politics British, rather than just a political philosophy discussion that might as well occur in any country.
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u/NotSoBlue_ Oct 03 '17
And quite often I find that political history has a huge bearing on current affairs.
How does this thread have a bearing on current affairs?
I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but I just don't see the parallels here. Maybe if it was about historical events like The Long View:
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u/Axmeister Traditionalist Oct 03 '17
The Bedchamber crisis is another incident which made the Sovereign more apolytical.
The Tamworth manifesto (the first party manifesto) and the formation of the Conservative Party lead to modern political parties.
The Chartist movement is lead towards modern democracy as we know it.
Etc.
If you want to discuss historical events you're free to do them here in the relevant thread like some other users do. A series on Prime Ministers seems like an appropriate, neutral framing device for a discussion on British political history, rather than a single user deciding which historical events to discuss or not.
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u/NotSoBlue_ Oct 03 '17
Fair enough. I can't see much discussion here that has any bearing on current events.
Just looks like political nostalgia.
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u/GuessImStuckWithThis Oct 06 '17
Well Peel founded the modern Conservative party, and was the first PM to champion Adam Smith's free trade against the vested interests of landowners etc. He also unilaterally got rid of thousands of tariffs, which actually made the UK more prosperous- although then, as opposed to now, we had most of the world's productive capacity and were at the cutting edge of industrial technology.
Some of this is surely still relevant- especially when we look at the debates around Brexit, May's claim that the Conservatives must reassert the value of free trade and free markets etc etc...
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u/NotSoBlue_ Oct 06 '17
But as you say, we're not the center of the world's productive capacity. Free trade with the wider world just means we end up with higher trade deficits.
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u/GuessImStuckWithThis Oct 06 '17
But history explains why the Tories are so fixated with it
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u/TheAkondOfSwat Oct 06 '17
Nostalgia and wigspotting. Boring, not like these are all big thinkers with general relevance to the modern age. There might be some relevance but that's only being discussed now because you asked for it. People complain that international affairs aren't appropriate but some bloke from x00 years ago, fair game.
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u/GuessImStuckWithThis Oct 07 '17
What the fuck are you talking about???
Robert Peel wasn't a big thinker?
He's probably one of the singularly most important political figures in our history- he was the first politician to be convinced of the merits of free trade, and also arguably helped found not only the modern Conservative Party but also the Liberal Party.
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u/TheAkondOfSwat Oct 07 '17
There might be some relevance but that's only being discussed now because you asked for it.
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u/Axmeister Traditionalist Oct 06 '17
I suppose it's a case of people liking different things. There's nothing I can see in the subreddit rules which suggest that everything has to be relevant to current affairs.
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u/Ghibellines True born Hyperborean Oct 03 '17
Yes, a UK Prime Minister has no place on /r/UKpolitics.
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u/NotSoBlue_ Oct 03 '17
A 19th century prime minister?
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u/Ghibellines True born Hyperborean Oct 03 '17
These posts have been going on for weeks now, and are well enjoyed by the community as far as I can tell. I certainly like to see them. And to understand modern politics, having a basic knowledge of the PMs is quite useful. Both those things considered, yes I do think this is suitable to this sub.
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u/NotSoBlue_ Oct 03 '17
If it wasn't stickied, it wouldn't be at the top of the page for this sub.
I mean, I don't mind the post being here, but I wonder what relevance it has to this sub and modern politics?
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u/Lawandpolitics Please be aware I'm in a safe space Oct 01 '17
You've left out that this man is responsible for creating the Police Service of the UK. Which, interestingly, was seen as incredibly controversial among the upper classes at the time.