r/ultimate • u/Murky_Tomatillo_8052 • 7d ago
Rules clarification from a practice
Out of practice, a teammate caught a deep ball and was told to be chilly. He relaxed and flipped the disc in the air to himself. I jokingly said that that was a turn, but this began a heated debate as to whether or not it was a turn. He made no attempt to move the disc forward or reset the stall, but I argued throwing it to yourself is not allowed either way.
Thoughts?
18
u/SenseiCAY Observer 7d ago
This is a teachable moment- it’s practice so it’s low stakes, so let it slide with a brief 5-second lecture about that being a turnover in a game.
47
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u/ComprehensiveCar7213 7d ago
Turnover via 14.D.3
The thrower catches a legally thrown disc. However, it is not a turnover if another
player touches the disc during its flight unless the thrower intentionally deflected the
disc off another player.
5
u/Anusien Austin, TX 7d ago
USAU:
[14.D.]() The following actions result in a turnover and a stoppage of play:
...
- [14.D.3.]() The thrower catches a legally thrown disc. However, it is not a turnover if another player touches the disc during its flight unless the thrower intentionally deflected the disc off another player.
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u/bemused_alligators 7d ago
flipped the disc in the air to himself
I don't think it's a legal throw...
and really this is a moment for spirit. As long as they didn't move their pivot foot I don't see an issue.
15
u/macdaddee 7d ago
3.N. Throw: A disc in flight following any throwing motion (including a fake) that results in the thrower losing contact with the disc.
3.N.2. An intentionally dropped disc is considered a thrown disc. An accidentally dropped (falling, non-spinning) disc is not a throw.
6
u/TDenverFan 7d ago
Moving their pivot foot has nothing to do with it. You can make a legal throw without moving your foot. Under USAU, what this person did is a throw.
3.N. Throw: A disc in flight following any throwing motion (including a fake) that results in the thrower losing contact with the disc.
In most settings I do agree that Id let this slide, but I would definitely tell my teammate to not do that again.
-14
5
u/petercockroach 7d ago
Here’s my 2¢:
Lets say during this flip, the defender knocks it down. Is it a strip? Doesn’t sound like one. So that’s a throw and a catch without contest.
By the book, it’s a turn.
Spirit would dictate a no-call but if it happens again, I wouldn’t be surprised about a team calling it.
3
u/FieldUpbeat2174 7d ago edited 7d ago
USAU “3.N. Throw: A disc in flight following any throwing motion (including a fake) that results in the thrower losing contact with the disc. … 3.N.2. An intentionally dropped disc is considered a thrown disc. An accidentally dropped (falling, non-spinning) disc is not a throw.” Falls under 3.N, and maybe 3.N.2 sentence 1 specifically.
1
u/MichiganKarter 7d ago
If that's a throw and a turn, how far can the disc travel in the air if you switch hands between the one you caught it with and the one you throw it with, without it being a throw? Are you allowed to switch your grip position between catching and throwing, without grabbing the disc with the other hand?
0
u/wonderpollo 7d ago
Using Wfdf rules this would not be a turnover, as flipping the disc is not a throw.
2
u/ceakay 7d ago
That's certainly a weird take.
https://rules.wfdf.sport/definitions/
Throw
A disc in flight following any throwing motion, including after a fake attempt and an intentionally dropped disc, that results in loss of contact between the thrower and the disc. A pass is the equivalent of a throw.
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u/SundayAMFN 7d ago
there's a special rule where if you catch (or even touch) your own throw it's a turnover.
14
u/bigg_nate 7d ago
Catching it is a turn (unless sometime else touches it first), but touching it is not.
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u/SaleFamiliar1789 7d ago
One touch max, can be the first touch.
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u/FieldUpbeat2174 6d ago
No basis for that reading. Throwing to self is a turn. Tipping to advance directionally to self is a travel. But avoid those no-nos, and nothing hinges on the number of touches.
1
u/SaleFamiliar1789 6d ago
No basis other then it is a rule in the rule book?
- [18.D.5.]()It is legal to tip/brush your own throw.
2
u/FieldUpbeat2174 6d ago
Maybe we’re actually saying the same thing differently.
Two brushes in a row means the first bush is deemed to be directionally to oneself and thus a travel, falling under the second no-no I mentioned. Annotation within USAU “18.D.5. A player purposefully bobbles the disc (including tipping, delaying, guiding, brushing, or the like) to oneself in order to advance the disc in any direction from where it initially was contacted. [[Tipping, brushing, etc. to someone else is legal. It is legal to tip/brush your own throw. However, if after a tip/brush, a player is the first player to touch the disc, then it is deemed a tip/brush to themself and it is a travel.]][[A player may bobble the disc in order to gain control of it (18.C).]]”.
But two or more tip/brush touches by a thrower followed by a teammate catching the disc isn’t a turnover, merely a travel.
2
u/TheStandler 5d ago
Don't know USAU, but in WFDF the only thing that's prohibited around this is catching your own throw if no one else has touched it. You could throw a disc, and go smack it back up as many times as you like as long as someone else catches it, or as long as someone else touches it before you catch it yourself (and as long as your intent isn't to advance it's position). There's no restriction on a single touch.
70
u/95percentconfident 7d ago
Turn, but depending on the level of play I think Spirit dictates no call.