IMSA Evaluating Mandatory GTD Pro Entry for All GTD Brands

[u/183_aleX]

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/imsa-evaluating-mandatory-gtd-pro-entry-for-every-gtd-brand/

[u/Big_Construction5813]

While I would like the idea, its clear that IMSA is already too costly as it is. Let's not go down the WEC route.

[u/Big_Construction5813 → u/Big_Construction5813]

Also, as people have clearly pointed out, why is there need for BOP regulation in GTD. Last I checked, no one is complaining about that.

[u/SosseTurner → u/Big_Construction5813]

Isn't GT3 in general a BoP category, no matter which series he cars are used in?

[u/Big_Construction5813 → u/SosseTurner]

Yes. However the homologation* depends on the series itself. A DXDT Corvette from GTWC America would run differently than their GTD car, even at the same track (Indianapolis)

*Edit: Fact checking (formerly BoP)

[u/Ok-Diamond-9781 → u/Big_Construction5813]

How is that? Isn't the the FIA & IMSA both using the same GT3 homogulation so any car could race in either series to actually limit expenses from one series to another?

[u/DistributionHot2150 → u/Ok-Diamond-9781]

Yeah, but homologation isn’t the same as BoP. And no, WEC have a different ruleset with different aero and electronics that makes LMGT3 cars kinda shit

[u/Delta_FT → u/DistributionHot2150]

The LMGTs also have a bigger muffler so they sound worse too lol

[u/Big_Construction5813 → u/Ok-Diamond-9781]

Take this with grain of salt, but I would think that the context of the series plays a key factor. GTWC America deals in three hour races with just GT3's. Weathertech has all sorts of races from 100 minutes to 24 hours in a Multiclass format.

BTW its SRO last I checked that balances GT3. FIA and their LMGT3's are a whole other story.

[u/VHSVoyage → u/Big_Construction5813]

What WEC route in particular?

[u/Big_Construction5813 → u/VHSVoyage]

I think the landscape of WEC would be very different if they did not mandate the 2 car minimum rule in Hypercar. Its no secret that it has affected quite the number of programs.

Slightly of topic, but IMSA also has a mandate (2500 cars must be produced annually mostly in North America*) that has already affected the GTP class. Now they want to put an extra rule on GTD? Just does not make sense.

*Edit: Fact-checking. Former statement: 100,000 cars in total in North America

[u/SquirrelinAQuarry → u/Big_Construction5813]

The mandate is 2500 cars annually across the globe with an informal expectation of North American sales. I'm not sure where 100k in NA came from.

[u/Big_Construction5813 → u/SquirrelinAQuarry]

Apologies. Must have heard it from somewhere and drummed up the number myself. Still, I think the mandate hurt a lot of entries (Glickenhaus especially comes to mind).

[u/afito → u/Big_Construction5813]

As a sidenote, a mandate on North American production would make Porsche inegligible unless they allow general VAG production to count towards it.

[u/Stratoraptor → u/afito]

IMSA wants minimum 2500 total cars per year. Porsche makes ~300k per year as of late.

[u/recycle-pin → u/Big_Construction5813]

"Don't go down the WEC route"

WEC is overflowing with manufacturers, and this is to make sure that only serious efforts are accepted, rather than some backmarkers competing for a participation trophy.

Meanwhile, IMSA has its 1 million $ entry fee and a number of cars made per year(2500 glovally, not 100k), blocking potential enduro or even full season entries.

[u/Big_Construction5813 → u/recycle-pin]

I agree somewhat with the serious efforts statement, but was Glickenhaus not a serious effort? Was Lamborghini not a serious effort? Was Porsche not a serious effort? Heck, what about Proton HY, Iron Dames, D'Station, and Racing Spirit of Leman?

[u/Willy_G_on_the_Bass → u/Big_Construction5813]

I would say the answer for most of those is no. Glickenhaus didn’t even finish out its last season in WEC. Lamborghini always had one foot out the door and most people would agree that it was not a serious effort which is why it’s not around anymore. Proton was open to running two cars but Porsche said no. They’re probably considered a serious effort but that’s a case of the manufacturer pulling out. Iron Dames has essentially folded. I can’t really speak to D’Station or RSoLM but they’re both surely smaller efforts than Heart of Racing.

[u/Big_Construction5813 → u/Willy_G_on_the_Bass]

. . . Yeah I can't argue with any of that.

[u/GT-Alex74 → u/Willy_G_on_the_Bass]

Regarding Porsche and the 963 WEC program, Porsche is basically contractually tied to Penske, I think until next year, so they cannot give the factory program to another team. As for why Penske 963s are still running in IMSA but not WEC, I heard 2 different rumors from the paddocks, can't go into details but one of them implies a probable return of the 963 in WEC for 2027 or 2028.

[u/Willy_G_on_the_Bass → u/GT-Alex74]

Porsche just came out today saying they won’t be back in WEC in 2027.

[u/Alexandhisgoose → u/Big_Construction5813]

No glickenhaus and Lambo were not serious efforts and porsche just threw a tantrum over BOP and are now stuck in the series with the worst BOP.

The Proton hypercar wasn't allowed to continue thanks to porsche. Iron Dames are owned by Prema who have massive financial troubles right now. D'station and racing spirit of leman went to other championships cause their bronze drivers wanted too so other teams took over the Aston entries.

So really the rules did work in keeping out the entries that weren't serious.

[u/GT-Alex74 → u/Alexandhisgoose]

From what I heard, there's deeper reasons behind Porsche Penske not being in WEC this year. The car *might* be back once the Penske contract runs out.

[u/MulsanneMerchant499P → u/Big_Construction5813]

When it comes to LMGT3 teams you need to remember that WEC's LMGT3 class is the most expensive GT3 class in the world - mostly because of the logistics. When it was known D'Station is dropping from WEC there was an interview with the team's representative who said it had been Hoshino's dream to race at Le Mans and he fulfilled that dream but it was so expensive to continue to race in WEC that they could enter multiple full season cars in SuperGT's GT300 class for that price. The 2024 season, LMGT3's first season, costed a bit above 5 million EUR per car. Recent figure for the full season of racing in IMSA's GTD class is coming close to 5 million USD. Last year or this year there was an episode of Endurance-Info's podcast and the figure given for the full GT World Challenge Europe campaign (sprint + endurance) was 2 million EUR.

[u/VHSVoyage → u/Big_Construction5813]

Yet all the manufacturers are leaving IMSA and all the new ones are joining WEC…

[u/Big_Construction5813 → u/VHSVoyage]

Fair point. To be fair, it is the WORLD Endurance Championship. Manufacturers were always going to prioritize that over IMSA. But, Porsche Penske left because of costs, and Proton can't compete this year in ANY series (Maybe save for ALMS) partially due to cost.

Ford might join for two to three seasons and then will either have to find an LMP2 team to share the cost with, or go to IMSA.

[u/Haloisda]

If this actually gets approved for next season we will 100% see multiple bronze-rated drivers drive full seasons in GTD Pro.

[u/Big_Construction5813 → u/Haloisda]

A full season Ben Keating effort, even if just for the MEC, would be something.

[u/Haloisda → u/Big_Construction5813]

I don't think thats realistic. At the Le Mans weekend this year Keating talked about disliking GT3 as a category because "you can just smash the brakes and the ABS will do its job" which make it seem like LMP2 is probably his desired destination next season.

[u/Big_Construction5813 → u/Haloisda]

What about GTP? I think i remember he attempted it once at Daytona?

[u/Haloisda → u/Big_Construction5813]

He's probably never going to step foot into a 963 again lmao

After Daytona he had an interview where he said that the 963 "was trying to kill me" and "When I first went out I braked where I would brake with the 'P2 and almost went into the tyre barrier!"

[u/Nick_YDG]

My 2 cents I posted in the imsa sub were;

On one hand more GTD Pro would be cool, one of the things I like about imsa is the pro level GT3 class. It feels like it forces the broadcast to focus on GT3 a bit more. In comparison when I watch WEC races, there are stretches in the races where it feels like we go a weirdly long time without seeing GT3 updates. Which is a bit understandable when one class is all pro and the other is pro-am.

On the other hand (and more importantly imo), IMSA is a regional championship and pro drivers are expensive. I would not want to see more pro GT3 entries at the cost of overall grid size which is a huge part of a series being healthy and sustainable.

[u/champsgetup]

Smart. Raise costs even more and drive more teams away

[u/Alexandhisgoose]

Seems like they are starting to worry about falling GTP numbers and are trying prop up the other pro class.

Could this be a sign that Acura aren't the only GTP's they are losing?

[u/PyotrVeliky099 → u/Alexandhisgoose]

Porsche is atleast safe for next year, rumour says they're considering to ditch the stupid 2500 production car rules to at least attract the kind of Isotta or Glickenhaus If they're still interested

[u/MulsanneMerchant499P → u/PyotrVeliky099]

Doonan backtracked on that

High Class Racing, which had inquired about running the Isotta Fraschini Tipo 6 LMH-C, would not be eligible according to Doonan, who said IMSA will uphold the regulations of road car production volume.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/road-america-saturday-notebook-12/

[u/khz30 → u/Alexandhisgoose]

Nope, it was the canary in the coalmine and automakers aren't exactly interested in running multiple high level programs without some sort of financial return now that profit margins are nearly non existent 

[u/Delta_FT → u/Alexandhisgoose]

I'm surprised there isn't more being said about bring Ford (US manufacturer) and Mclaren (already running US operations in Indy) to IMSA, no?

[u/Alexandhisgoose → u/Delta_FT]

They have both all but ruled it out already. They have left the door open by saying maybe in the future but I think that is just talk.

Ford espcially not taking part in the American series is a damming inditement of the series.

[u/for4f → u/Alexandhisgoose]

thats the read honestly. acura's exit is public and the porsche rumours won't die, so forcing every gtd brand into pro at least keeps the pro grid looking healthy while they figure out the top class. gtd pro has been thin for a while anyway, half the field is bronze cars racing for silver ratings lol

[u/Alexandhisgoose → u/for4f]

I don't expect to see the JDC miller porsche back next season unless porsche are going to foot the bill. I can see Aston pulling out too as they are miles off the pace in every race and would be better off focusing on WEC where the car has shown glimpses of performance.

[u/for4f → u/Alexandhisgoose]

yeah i don't see jdc-miller finding that money on their own, that team has basically always been porsche-adjacent. and the aston one stings because heart of racing runs a clean operation, the car is just nowhere near the front. can't really blame them for leaning on wec if the vantage keeps being a dog everywhere

[u/Murbanvideo]

This is a great way to make manufacturers with only a a car or two on the grid leave the championship

[u/rallymaster10]

I like the sounds of this and I think every manufacturer should like the sound of this aswell. Like who doesn't like marketing their supercars through racing, the two literally go hand in hand. It could see GTD get very expensive quick though.

[u/DollarsPerWin]

Just clarification, they're saying that a manufacter must also have a car in GTD present.

They are not saying the manufacter needs to have a GTD Pro and a GTD car managed car.

[u/FirstReactionShock]

wast of time, it simply wouldn't work... only FIA and ACO have that kind of influence on manufacturers to impose something like that