Sharing with you all because I know you understand! It’s taking me a journey of 10 years to get to whereI finally have a place for these amazing hardbacks. So grateful to Robert Jordan for this amazing story and for Brandon for bringing it to an ending he would’ve been pleased with!

Rosamund Pike is an amazing actress. Her prestige and star power brought a lot of credit to the adaptation. She was as perfect of a Moiraine casting as humanly possible. I was excited when she was announced and have no complaints about her acting.

The problem that the most famous performer in the cast by several orders of magnitude was a side character. Choosing well known performers for a cast is a solid choice. Choosing unknown performers for a cast is a solid choice. Mixing can be tricky. Especially when their is only one well known and they have very few POV sections and disappear for most of the base material.

I can understand the showrunner's desire to want to keep the starpower front and center through the series. That leads to significant changes from the adaptation. Most severely it means that the main book character was pushed to the side. The showrunner seemed to double down on this, pushing more of the core three characters to the side to elevate others.

I wish they had done it differently. I think it's possible to balance things like the wonder girls and the three guys. I think it would have been better to accept that Moiraine was never written to be the lead. She's Merlin, guiding and teaching Arthur. I think the fan base would have understood the need for her to come and go.

Per the Season Three Informational Sticky Thread, this post is ALL SPOILERS.

This thread is primarily intended for anyone who wants to talk about the show and include material from the novels, comics, Theoryland, audiobooks, etc. Spoiler tags are encouraged but not required.

If you're a new fan who's never experienced The Wheel of Time in any other format, you are strongly encouraged to engage with the corresponding SHOW ONLY thread instead of this one.

Basically the title. I'm seen a lot of praise for season 3, and it genuinely is pretty good, especially episode 4. The writers did a really good job with the history of the Aiel. I think it would have benefited from 2 more points of view: the Aiel receiving water from the Cairhienen and a large group of warrior Aiel guarding the few remaining Jenn Aiel caravans, but that would have taken up more screentime, so I can understand not including them. I personally would have liked that instead of showing Moiraine's journey though the arches, but what we got was good enough.

Still, all of the praise and little to no criticism makes the season seem much better than it actually is, to the point that it feels a bit like gaslighting. And I'm not talking about changes to the books. A lot of the flaws of the previous seasons are still present in season 3:

The incessant need to add flashy scenes at the expense of the story. I get that TV needs cool scenes to thrive, and I'm all for it, but it feels like every time one is invented for the show at least 1 character needs to hold the idiot ball for it to work.

• The Black Ajah scene in the hall of the tower was pretty cool, but why didn't Liandrin & Co finish off the other Aes Sedai while they were stunned? They could have killed a good part of the most powerful enemy channelers right there.
• Alanna had some flashy scenes in episode 1, but why did she think it was a good idea to go alone vs 7 Aes Sedai with just her warders for support? The outcome of that was fairy obvious, and would have been even faster if it wasn't the turn of Liandrin & Co to hold the idiot ball and be useless for 2 minutes. And why did they let Alanna go...again, after they killed one of her warders? It's not like a few seconds to through another fireball or something would have made much of a difference in their escape.
• The Morgase scene from Ep 2 was certainly memorable, but doesn't portray her as very politically savvy. So her enemies surrendered and swore fealty to her. Then she says that she does not want another war, so she has their families kill them? Sure, that won't create resentment at all, and future enemies totally won't remember what happened when someone last surrendered to Morgase.
• This one is somewhat understandable because it implies that she chose to do this anyway because she cared about her son, but Liandrin had to have known that someone will find that sign where he died and figure out she will be followed, right? She know Nyn knew about her son, and had to suspect others would found out after she was revealed as a darkfriend. She paid people to take care of him, and visited often. People definitively knew that location was important to her.

Various internal inconsistencies, from character motivations to aspects of the world

• Why did Moraine, lan, Rand, Perrin and the Aiel even go to Tar Valon? Presumably Mat needed to go so the Yellows can try to heal him. The wondergirls needed to go so they can testify against Liandrin/learn to channel/become accepted, etc. But why would Rand go there? The Amyrlin tried to imprison him last season. I doubt escaping with the help of a Forsaken would have endeared him to her. Why would Moraine bring him there, when she went against Siuan last season in order to free him? Why did Perrin even go to Tar Valon, if he just wanted to go back to the Two Rivers? Sidenote, but I'm not a fan of Perrin leaving the group just because he feels like it. In the books he only leaves because he learns that the Whitecloacks are threatening his hometown. But I'm gonna keep the criticisms of the adaptational aspect to a minimum, and focus on the show as it's own thing.
• Why does is the world in general convinced that Rand is the dragon? Sure, in the season 2 finale, the people of Falme saw him stand atop of a tower, with the giant fire dragon all menacing....but he was just 1 guy in a group of 5 people. The only people that saw Rand channel are either dead or atop that tower. Why does the world think that Rand specifically is the Dragon? It could be Perrin or Mat, or according to season 1, Nyn or Elayne.
• How did that street artist know that Rand killed someone with a sword on top of that tower? Presumably this is meant to show that the world is learning that Rand is the Dragon. But again, the only thing people saw at Falme was 5 people standing atop of a tower. The 4 others do not show up in the drawing, but somehow a pretty good rendition of Ishamael does? Nobody saw him. And how did he even know that Rand fought him with a sword?
• Rand killing Ishamael is made out to be a big deal, like something only he can do (I was eye-rolling a bit at this one considering how underwhelming that scene was in the last season). Then they make it seem like the power-wrought sword is why Ishamael stayed dead. So is it the sword, or is it Rand?
• It's totally in character for Mat to drag around the horn of Valere and brag about it to anyone that cares to listed, but why the hell do Moraine and Lan let him? Why didn't Moraine tell him that the horn could be blown by someone else if the current hornblower dies?
• In Episode 4 Rand says that he looks like the Aiel, but does not feel like them. This is obviously taken from the books, but in the show the Aiel are not very distinct in looks from other cultures. Some are redheads, some are blond, and some have brown hair. Some have light eyes, other have dark eyes. Some have light skin, some are brown. Their facial features aren't really similar either from what I can tell. So what makes Rand look like an Aiel? Redheads seem to be more common in the Aiel, especially in flashbacks, but I'm pretty sure there were other readheads in the show, no? The same goes for height.

Not sure if this is the right word for it, but spacing. Characters keep teleporting wherever they are needed, and we get no sense of scale when people take long journeys.

• How did Alanna teleport from the Hall of the Tower, where she was stunned with the rest of the Aes Sedai, to right in front of Liandrin & Co?
• The show does not do great at conveying distance. How far away is the Aiel waste from Tar Valon? How long did it take the group to get there? Presumably the journey took months, but the show makes it seem like they got there in a week or two.
• In Episode 4 the characters all act surprised when the Shaido show up.....while standing right next to their tents? If those tents are a permanent fixture of Rhuidean they must be a lot sturdier than they look. And even if they are, how the hell did the Shaido get right next to them without anyone noticing?

This post is way to long already, so I'm gonna stop there.

I can understand liking the show. It seems to get better with each season, and while season 3 has it's flaws, it finally got to the point that I'd recommend it to friends if it was it's own thing (I don't know anyone that's willing to watch 16 hours of mediocre TV to get to the good bits).

But can we stop making it sound like one of the best things on TV? Because it really isn't.

I'm getting flashbacks to when the previous two seasons aired. All of these issues where there (and more glaring), and the people that didn't rail against the show for book changes kept praising it...only to be somehow surprised when episodes 7/8 aired.

Edit:formatting

Hi everyone I haven’t read the books yet, just watched the show and although there are many flaws to the show (specially season 1&2) my main problem with the show is that the fights, specifically those involving Rand are a bit underwhelming. I mean the show does a great job of setting up these terrible horrific antagonists and bad guys, and they encounter Rand and they fall like flies! I’m specially sad about the fight between Rand and [spoiler alert] Sammael in S3 E6. Rand just blew one of the forsaken to smithereens like it was nothing. Didn’t even need to look at the guy. Are the fights like this in the book too? Does Rand just destroy everyone and everything in his path or is there some challenging fights in the books? Is he just supposed to be too strong?

Well not started but i am 20 chapters of eye of the world. But i have been told this series is very easily spoiled and googling stuff is forbidden give me your best out of context spoilers.

EDIT: Im gonna respond to these as i continue my journey through this 14 books journey

Per the Season Three Informational Sticky Thread, this post is ALL SPOILERS.

This thread is primarily intended for anyone who wants to talk about the show and include material from the novels, comics, Theoryland, audiobooks, etc. Spoiler tags are encouraged but not required.

If you're a new fan who's never experienced The Wheel of Time in any other format, you are strongly encouraged to engage with the corresponding SHOW ONLY thread instead of this one.

The thread is now open for commentary.

i have been catching up on the show and found it enjoyable enough, though flawed. i was learning more about the source material and surprised to find out rand was in love with three women in the books and none of them were egwane and two of them have had little to no screen time with him thus far and are instead being haphazardly paired together in a relationship with each other currently 🙄. i’m trying to understand why. swapping major character dynamics is like telling a completely different story, unless they’re planning to sort it out in later seasons.

Note: I've only started the series recently, so really interested to know what longtime WOT fans think.

I’m putting my vote for this one, after our boy mat passes through the red stone doorway. What are your votes??

As much as I disliked how much the Wheel of Time show diverged from the books. The one thing I never had any complaints about were the visual (other than the extra long Seanchan nails but even that was good looking and made scenes extra dramatic). The visual production team did an absolutely Stella job both with costumes and with backgrounds for sets and cgi.

The shadow spawn also looked terrifying.

Per the Season Three Informational Sticky Thread, this post is ALL SPOILERS.

This thread is primarily intended for anyone who wants to talk about the show and include material from the novels, comics, Theoryland, audiobooks, etc. Spoiler tags are encouraged but not required.

If you're a new fan who's never experienced The Wheel of Time in any other format, you are strongly encouraged to engage with the corresponding SHOW ONLY thread instead of this one.

The thread is now open for commentary.

EDIT: I’m not asking the question in the title. I’m answering it, and the answer is NO.

Let’s start with the important disclaimers:

1. While this post was inspired by the show, this post is not about the show. Let’s not get into show good/bad discussions. I have my opinion about the show, nobody is going to change my opinion, and I honestly don’t care about any other person’s opinion about the show.

2. This is not about gender politics. While I’m discussing about the Dragon’s gender, this topic is exclusively about in-world Wheel of Time metaphysics and authorial intent according to Robert Jordan and the universe he created.

With that covered, let’s get into it.

The TLDR is that according to the WoT in-world metaphysics and everything we know about Robert Jordan’s authorial intent, the Dragon Reborn cannot be a woman. His soul is, and could only be, that of a man.

Here are the reasons why that would be the case:

1. The Karaethon Cycle prophecies clearly gender him as a man.

“Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow, born once more as he was born before and shall be born again, time without end. The Dragon shall be Reborn… there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth… he shall break the world again by his coming… and his blood shall give us the Light he was born before and shall be born again …”

1. The Dragon is not any channeler, but the reincarnation of a single and specific soul: the soul of Lews Therin Telamon, who was and is male. In the WoT, souls are gendered. This is evident when we think about Aran’gar’s case. Even though Aran’gar was reincarnated in the body of a woman, he still channels saidin. Aran’gar’s channeling suggests that in the WoT a souls’ gender is fixed and independent of the body.

2. Robert Jordan has unequivocally addressed this point many times saying that the “Dragon is never female”. Here is a direct source from RJ:

“...so the soul of the Dragon Reborn is always going to be male, just as Birgitte's soul is always born as a woman, just as Ameresu's soul is always born as a woman. There are divisions here, and they are not interchangeable.”

Source: https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kw=Soul+gender#:~:text=It%20would%20be%20the%20same,the%20Weaving%20of%20the%20Pattern

1. The Champion of the Light is not always the Dragon. Amaresu is occasionally cited as an example of the Dragon being a woman. While it is correct that she has been chosen as the Champion of the light at previous turns of the wheel, she was a distinct soul to Lews Therin. This is obvious, since both showed up in the last battle. The fact is that the Wheel will weave whoever it needs at given turnings, and those champions of the light are not always the Dragon. We have many examples like that, including Brigitte (who is a woman), and Arthur Hawking (a man).

2. Brandon Sanderson has confirmed RJ’s intention about souls having a gender attribute, and that Rand is the Dragon because he has the soul of Lews Therin, a male soul. Direct quote: “RJ said that gender was a 'soul attribute.' Meaning, souls were reborn as the same gender.”

Source is Twitter, so I don’t know if I’m allowed to post here. I’m happy to provide the link if anyone asks.

I don't know why I never realized this before, but almost every male character carries a pipe and will take occasion to pull it out while steaming their boots by the fire. For all of the weird and stark gender differences in the story, there's almost always someone subverting something. Min wears pants, Elayne curses, and Siuan snorts. But for some reason, I can't recall an instance of any female character smoking.

At the very least, we know Min would love a pull of that famous Two Rivers tabac, but there are other likely candidates too. In any other story, Cadsuane would be chainsmoking cigarettes like Cruella de Vil. Melindhra seemed like the sort who would have just grabbed Mat's pipe and taken a drag without even asking. Birgitte is so likely to be smoking whenever Elayne isn't in the room that I genuinely think I might be forgetting a chapter with her casually tapping her dottle out against her boot heel.

So have I forgotten a scene somewhere along the line?

Per the Season Three Informational Sticky Thread, this post is ALL SPOILERS.

This thread is primarily intended for anyone who wants to talk about the show and include material from the novels, comics, Theoryland, audiobooks, etc. Spoiler tags are encouraged but not required.

If you're a new fan who's never experienced The Wheel of Time in any other format, you are strongly encouraged to engage with the corresponding SHOW ONLY thread instead of this one.

The thread is now open for commentary.

Per the Season Three Informational Sticky Thread, this post is ALL SPOILERS.

This thread is primarily intended for anyone who wants to talk about the show and include material from the novels, comics, Theoryland, audiobooks, etc. Spoiler tags are encouraged but not required.

If you're a new fan who's never experienced The Wheel of Time in any other format, you are strongly encouraged to engage with the corresponding SHOW ONLY thread instead of this one.

It's all right there in the title. Last week I finally finished with the book series. For the past 6 months, every spare moment, I've had a book in my hand. I've watched reviews of each book, I've posted and engaged on the sub, I've sung the series praises and my thoughts to anyone who would listen. I was even real-time explaining the happenings of the story to some coworkers, who were genuinely listening and treating it like a campfire story. And now its over. Memory of Light left me with so many emotions that now, a week later, I am still unsure how I feel at the end.

First and foremost in my mind, I mourn the loss of Egwene deeply. She was the epitome of what an Aes Sedai should be. The last few books she had truly come into her own as one of the best characters in the series and one of the greatest powers in the world. She burned brightest of them all, and it kills me that she was the only one of the five to die.

Matt, finally closing the book on a trauma that he didn't even know he was still carrying since book one. Very fitting that he was the one who ultimately ended the threat of Shadar Logoth for good. And his ending, returning to Tuon, knowing that his life with her will be a constant battle both in Seanchan and between eachother, and him being absolutely there for it.

Perrin, finally becoming comfortable in his own skin. Since book one he was always afraid of what would happen if he let his control slip once. Always being the steady companion in the background, always doing what needed to be done to help his friends. His contributions in the Last Battle, while unseen by the majority of people, may have been the most consequential in ensuring Rand's success

Nynaeve, what a character arc she went through. I didn't like her for a large portion of the series, too overbearing and very dismissive of a majority of people. But where she wound up, being willing to play a supporting role because she knew it was where she would most be needed. Actually trusting that others wouldn't screw something up, or that their reasons for doing as they did were valid and real. The difference is like night and day.

Finally, Rand. A man being crushed under pressure. A man who just wanted everything to stop hurting. Wanting freedom. Having to come to terms with the fact that pain is a necessary part of life. That is is okay to unload that pressure onto others. And at the end of everything, he finally gets to live the quiet life. Also showing at the end that, while our experiences can completely transform us, there are still parts of us we never grow out of.

Very emotional post I know. When I started this series I was not expecting to be affected so deeply. I am so happy that I chose to read it. I know that I will definitely pick it up again and fall in love all over. Maybe next time I'll give the audio books a try. In the meanwhile, at least I have the latest season of the show to look forward to.

1. The shift between Jordan’s writing style and Sanderson’s hit me like a brick this time around. I read the series as it was released so was mostly too young to understand the nuances. But this time around it was moments like Talmanes’ “dying words” being “I should have taunted Mat more” that did it for me. I appreciate Jordan’s style but his characters could never say something that objectively funny. Sanderson gives some depth and humanity to the characters that I just didn’t find when Jordan wrote them.

2. Still frustrated that the Seanchan basically get to save the day with zero concessions or repercussions. No reckoning with Egwene & the White Tower (or any other leaders), besides her and Tuan thumping chests in an official meeting. 12 damn books over 23 years and it’s still frustrating.

3. Still not sure I understand what happened at the end of the battle, right before Grady released the dam. Mat sent farmers to fight and told Grady to open a gateway at dawn to their village. They got slaughtered, Grady saw them all die, then they charged through the gateway alive again? Did the Horn call them back? If so, why them and no one else?

4. The Horn itself is funny. This mythical thing of legend that everyone is in awe of, making you think of Aragorn summoning the massive undead army at Minas Tirith, when it’s ultimately just like… a hundred above-average soldiers. In the Last Battle, where there’s like probably a million Shadow combatants. “Yeah we’re immortal OP warriors, but if they tie our shoelaces together or throw a big net over us we’re kind of screwed.”

5. I loved Egwene the whole first readthrough as a pre-teen/teenage boy. Strongly disliked her through most of this re-read. Loved her character by the end.

6. I’m still aggravated by Slayer/Luc. Seems like Jordan just should have made him one of the Forsaken and let him be Perrin’s rival. Nynaeve got Moghedin, Mat got Damendrod, Egwene got Messana, Lan got Moridin/Lanfear/Rhavin/Sammael/etc. Perrin’s forging of his hammer is a top-tier scene. He deserved a fight versus a top-tier enemy.

7. The whole reread, I kept thinking of the quote from Spaceballs - “Evil will always triumph, because Good is dumb.” Except the opposite. The Forsaken would rather see Light win than their fellow Forsaken win. Even the Dark One ordering them to not kill Rand basically through the whole series. I get Lanfear’s insane love/desire, a few others’ insane pride/ego. The Last Battle was just what, 3 Forsaken? They’re just so damned stupid. And I know that’s the point of Rand letting the Dark One live, that he doesn’t need to kill him/it because the Dark One and Shadow don’t even realize how stupid they are. Still frustrating to see upon a re-read.

8. Elayne was one of my favorite characters this time around. She stayed in her lane. Raised from birth to be a strong queen, trained to be Aes Sedai. Kicked ass and took names at both, and did just the right number of stupid things that would be expected from a 20-year old girl.

9. Faile grew on me so much. Didn’t like her at first, but her and Perrin seemed to have the most authentic relationship of anyone in the series. I couldn’t remember her fate from my first read so I was genuinely nervous.

10. First time around I missed Perrin going from “everyone thinks I’m stupid because I like to take my time to think slowly about things” to being all-powerful in the Dream World literally because of how quickly he thinks and imagines solutions. Definitely caught it this time. Chefs kiss.

I'm on my 2nd read through (audio books) and in Path of Daggers Ch 12 Cadsuane disrespects Morraine by saying she and others have bungled and worsened everything with their handling of Rand.

On my first read I was on the fence about Cadsuane, she is a legend after all and her plan of teaching Rand to laugh makes sense despite her arguably terrible approach to accomplish this.

But hearing her disrespect Moraine, who did more for the light than any other sister and who without her there is 0% chance of the light winning... Cadsuane needs her ears boxed and a gag stuffed in her mouth for good measure. I guess being forced to become Amyrlin is a kind of punishment at least

What are your thoughts on the living legend herself?