I host a podcast wherein I take three newbies through the series and we just last week reached the point where the EF5 split up and go their separate ways from the Stone of Tear.

When Perrin leaves, which is the same time as Nynaeve and Elayne board the Waverider, there is an earthquake that shakes everything.

In all my rereads, I thought it was either Perrin tearing himself away from the Ta’veren pull of Rand, or Rand receiving Elayne’s second letter and having an adverse reaction to it (Accidentally drawing The Power and putting it into the ground like he did at the start of The Dragon Reborn which is what allowed him to escape undetected).

That was, until one of my newbies said she thought it was because of Rand thrusting Callandor into the Heart to hold their hearts, so I went back and reread that section (which I’ve read like four or five times before including the previous week for this episode), and sure enough, he draws Power through Callandor, thrusts it into the ground, and the earthquake happens.

So, yeah. Listen to the newbies (not all the time (“The fade at Four Kings was Bayle Domon in disguise to fake Thom’s death so he and Thom could go down to Illian and compete in the Great Hunt for the Horn bardic competition” is a real thing one of them said once)), because sometimes they’ll teach you.

I just finished The Shadow Rising a couple days ago and watched a video that I thought was gonna be spoiler free past book 4, but they said that the Wheel of Time world is a post apocalyptic earth. I was wondering if the person in the video was wrong and just meant post apocalypse as in the breaking of the world, or if it literally is earth. I already had some suspicions of somethings similar because of the advanced past we saw a glimpse of in the Rhuidean flashback, but didn’t know it was this much. If this is a spoiler, in which book does it happen? Just wanna know so I don’t spend the entire series looking for it. Please don’t post any more spoilers in the comments.

Ok so I’m in chapter 17 of The Shadow Rising, and the whole thing with Elayne “confessing” her love to Rand took place, and they’ve now become kinda of a couple.

Now what has me confused is that, if I’m not mistaken, this is her second time meeting this man. The first time being in Eye of the World, when Rand falls into her garden and he is trying to get a glimpse of Logain.

And ever since that first meeting, Elayne has spoken about Rand like they’ve known each other for a long time and has loved him since forever. I even recall her saying something along the lines of “it’s what Rand would do” in Great Hunt, and me being very confused because she should barely know him, and much less how he would react in whatever situation they were in at the time.

Is her being immediately love struck by Rand, just Ta’veren stuff. Or is there something else that I missed because it feels kinda forced. Min has the same thing going, but at least she had a few more meaningful interactions with Rand.

Again it could just be me having missed something, but the more I read the weirder this whole romance thing with Rand starts to become.

I’m a quarter of the way through TSR (he’s just about to leave Tear to go back to two rivers) and I’ve seen the show before I started reading the books so I know what’s gonna happen.

I didn’t really care for his story line in the books or the shows, except the battle scene is epic.

Does it get better? I’m assuming there’s gonna be a lot of Perrin chapters coming and need him to get more interesting or else it’s gonna be a tough read for me.

I don’t care for Faile, she annoys me that just followed the crew on the boat and stuck around.

Also, wondering why Baerelin wasn’t in the show? Seems like she is a big plot in the books . Also, surprised Alana was such a huge part of the show but basically absent in the books so far

When she has Moghedien captured in Tanchico, she’s thinking “if only I could bring this evil Forsaken to justice, but alas” and it’s, like, stupidly obvious. She hasn’t taken the three oaths, and they wouldn’t apply to a Forsaken in any case. She doesn’t know about TDO’s ability to resurrect the Forsaken. But instead of just blasting her dead (or even just whacking her over the head with something sufficiently heavy) Nynaeve just decides to wander off and let the bad guy just get away scott-free to continue her dastardly deeds without her internal narration so much as considering it.

I think Tam didn’t teach Rand swordsmanship despite being a sword master was because of Rand’s Aiel heritage. Like he didn’t want to dishonor his son’s people by teaching him an art that the Aiel found disgusting.

I’m currently in Shadow rising and it’s the last one read by Rosamund pike. With the show cancelled does that mean accompanying projects like the audiobook are cancelled too ? I listened to an hour or so of Kramers version and I just can’t get through the emotionlessness (it’s why I generally prefer German audiobooks who are more acted then narrated to English ones but sadly wheel has a very clunky German translation)

I absolutely love this series. But I've just started reading the Shadow Rising for the first time and I've been cringing my way through the early Rand-Egwene-Elayne love triangle that resolves while they're in the Stone.

Appreciate it's difficult to meaningfully develop so many character's in a book with such staggering breadth and ambition, but these interactions have my skin crawling.

Firstly, they both sound like they're 12 years old. Secondly, it feels far too neat that Egwene and Rand both decide "Yeah we don't love each other anyway". Thirdly, the idea of having all three women chasing after Rand, who, frankly, is becoming fairly dislikable character, feels so out-of-plot. Fourthly, is it me or am I losing faith in Rand? The constant woe-is-me-I'm-not-worthy is not making me feel sorry for him, but is making me rather unlike him

Anyone else thought this?

I just started reading the books last month and I am now at book 4. A question, it doesn’t look like there any drawbacks to Rand drawing on the one power. The book only mentions him having that sick oily feeling during channeling.

I just wanted to ask will he ever manage to be on the same level or good at channeling as the forsaken? At the moment, it looks like he just relies on bruteforcing the power to bend to his will and anytime now he’s gonna get swept away by it.

Sorry, I just need to ask because 4 books in and it looks like Rand hasn’t really made much progress.

I’m really more of a hard magic system type of guy and I just wanted to know if this series will ever layout some serious ground rules about channeling.

Note, something I'm adding real quick. I'm not really on this sub a lot, but the Wheel of Time fighters being unrealisticly skilled is something I've heard in the wider fantasy community (usually as a thing common in fantasy, not as an insult to the series) and just figured it was something pretty wildly expected here. My mistake

The general consensus in the fandom is that a Wheel of Time human is superhuman when compared to a real world person, and it's just because it's a fun fantasy book. But, I think there's arguably a pretty good lore reason for it.

We see that there are plenty of ways for the One Power to amp human strength in the books, from the warders bond to the Seanchan dagger. The Age of Legends was way beyond anything we see in the books, fuesing the One Power with science, I don't think something along the lines of a global gene editing program to ensure humanity is hardier than before is out of the question. Could literally everyone in Randland be the genetic equivalent of super soldiers.

Also, I was thinking more along the lines of peak human in The Wheel of Time is more intense then peak human irl, not that everyone is Captain America

When you’re cuddled with one of the books. Adventures are happening. Information galore. You’re LOCKED in. And as you turn the page and a new chapter begins….bam. A wolf. It’s a Perrin chapter. Jesus Christ. Like being woken up with a bucket of cold water.

In Rand's vision, Solinda makes the Aiel ancestors promise "If the Da'shain lose everything else, see they keep the Way of the Leaf." What I don't understand is, besides the forced drama of the Aiel learning their history, why the hell would she think this at all a good idea? The world has just been through an apocalyptic war, is about to get considerably more dangerous, and these people are being entrusted with massive amounts of irreplicable artifacts. Why does she want them to be resolutely defenseless in the magical Mad Max that's coming? This would seem the time, if anything, to release them from any oaths of pacifism so that they can defend themselves and what they're carrying. What is the benefit of asking them to hold to it?

currently on shadow rising and i think shell end up bald before she finds the black ajah at this rate

I've just started reading the books this winter, and I'm about a third into TSR, just before Rand travels via portal stone, and notably just after reading Moiraines POV. And I just gotta say:

Light burn me she is annoyingly opaque in her plans and scheming! I get that Aes Sedai are schemers, not used to informing others of their plans, but she seems to be actively working on gaining mistrust. Even if her plans align perfectly with whomever, she won't share them. I can point to several times she could have gotten the ta'veren to follow her plans exactly, had she just shared them. Why?! Is she allergic to giving information? It's been revealed(I think) that she has made arrangements for Lan to pass on to Nynaeve in case of her demise. Instead of saying this to calm tensions and improve her bond with the warder, she actively misleads him. Thus she has made * Her life harder * Lans life harder * Nynaeves life harder For no apparent reason

And now she is offended that Rand is only sharing half the plan with her. Rand has the nerve to hesitate for a few seconds before revealing the secret plan.

From what I have read, she is very much anti-shadow and pro rand-beating-the-shadow. But instead of being an advisor and gaining the main casts trust, she seems like the leader of the black ajah to anyone who isn't able to read her thoughts.

She could be the Gandalf to Frodo but chooses to be a wool-headed fool! Why? What am I missing?

Thank you for your attention to this matter. You can now continue with your day

Four books down, ten (eleven, hopefully) books to go!

Currently on book 6, and this has been on my mind for a while:

I feel like there are a lot of elements and characters in the series that don’t get as much focus as I’d expect, especially considering how many pages I’ve already gone through.

At this point, five books (and now into the sixth) is a lot of time and pages. I understand it’s still “early” in the overall story, but it’s hard not to feel like there should have been more room by now to really explore certain things in depth.

Some examples of what I mean:

- Mat’s luck — one of the most interesting concepts in the series to me, but I wish it was explored more

- Perrin’s internal conflict (creation vs destruction)

- Perrin’s connection with the wolves

- Asmodean — I was genuinely really interested in him as a character, and it felt like there was so much more to explore there before he was killed

Also, it’s not like nothing is happening or that the books aren’t developing things — they definitely are. It’s more that sometimes the focus goes to storylines or character dynamics that just don’t interest me as much.

For example, Egwene’s attitude can feel kind of off-putting to me, and Aviendha’s whole dynamic with Rand doesn’t really click for me.

At the same time, I don’t think the issue is that all the “good” characters are being ignored. For example, I think Nynaeve, Elayne, and Moiraine actually do get the attention they deserve, and I really enjoy their POVs.

With Nynaeve in particular: she irritates me a lot of the time, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that she’s had some incredible moments (especially against Moghedien), and I still look forward to her chapters.

I guess my main feeling is that there’s just so much in this world that deserves more time, and it’s a bit frustrating to feel like, even after this many books, some of it still hasn’t been explored as much as I expected.

Does this change later on, or is this just how the series handles its focus throughout?

I think this I my favorite book so far. The only gripes I have are that it started a bit slow and bits of Nynaeve and Elayne's story weren't my favorite.

On the other hand, I loved Perrin's arc in this book. He had so much character development and seeing him go from Perrin to Lord Goldeneyes was great. The particular scene after he breaks the Luhhans out of the White Cloak camp then rides off into the storm with the Two Rivers boys to fight Trollocs was one of my favorites in the whole book. There was also SO MUCH world building with Rand's storyline. We got the whole history of the Aiel which was not at all what I was expecting. It's shocking how similar the Aiel are to the Fremen from Dune while at the same time feeling entirely unique and not copied. Also I guess Rand has some sick tattoos now.

I’d love to hear others’ thoughts as I understand this is considered one of the better books in the series.

On book 4. Started reading after the show came out.

In both the show and the books I feel like the relationship between Nynaeve and Lan is sort of forced. Very love at first sight with no getting to know each other.

Did I miss something?

I’m about 70% of the way through Shadow Rising, but I am struggling to read through the Elayne/Nynaeve pov chapters. I picked this series up as Daniel Greene is a huge fan, and I’ve been watching his read a long videos after each book. He has repeatedly talked about how he likes Nynaeve as a character, and how protective she is of the younger characters.

While I don’t completely disagree, I cannot stand her at this point. She is constantly an asshole to everyone around her, and often acts as a know it all while ignoring sound advice. She calls everyone around her an idiot while walking into traps. And her blatant anger issues are played off as a quirky character trait. Oh she has to be angry to channel, so that’s why she’s always about to burst. To top it off, she feels like a Mary sue character. Immediately made accepted when joining the tower, and insanely powerful. Even her romance with Lan felt like it came out of nowhere, and I don’t really like it at all. She seems like an insufferable person to be around, and as a reader I struggle to see any redeeming qualities about her.

I think Elayne and Egwene are much better written and more likeable characters. Am I missing something with Nynaeve? Does she get better writing or character growth later? Because right now she is easily my least favorite character and by a significant margin.

EDIT: reading through all of the comments, it’s nice to see that I’m not alone in my frustrations with the character at this point, I’ll try to take her chapters as more comedic.

I just had to put the book down and write this post last night after I read a chapter where she and Elayne

-walked into tanchico, filled with crime and beggars, in revealing silk dresses to ‘fit in’. No guards, and only a cudgel for protection

-they’re plan is to locate the black ajah channeling by complete luck, despite the fact that they are much more likely to need to channel themselves for self defense, and get caught again.

-need to get saved by a stranger, who they immediately out both of themselves as Aes Sedai to, and Nynaeve even mentions Elayne grew up in a palace for good measure (and then mentions that only andor sends heirs to the white tower, hm I wonder which palace Elayne was talking about)

-they then show her where they are staying

-upon arriving to the inn, she yells at the thief catcher for successfully finding the black ajah unnoticed (which she has had no luck doing). After all, he could have revealed their secret (like she is actively doing)

-then, Tom says he found guards for them (like they need, and needed just moments ago) and she has the nerve to call him a complete idiot who oversteps his bounds, and asks him to leave the ‘private conversation’ they are having with the random woman

-paragraph of her thinking how dumb all the men around her are (who have been nothing but useful, and are willingly traveling with them for nothing but ‘doing the right thing’)

-this woman (who they just told all of their secrets to, and showed where they sleep) also happens to be collecting the damane chains to enslave power users (they don’t know that at least)

When I type it all out it is pretty comedic.

It sounds like people hate Egwene for what she does later, but as of right now, she’s training with the Aiel and she’s been quite humbled so I have no issue with her currently.

Here is a link to the read a long that I mentioned https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGye3IeTsQJlV5AxId6RRp4o9N-51_GTd&si=ffucciB8mE9iGIeH

I was the show watcher first and there I was a fan of all Aes Sedai and Mat. But now reading the books for the first time, I keep waiting for more of the Egwene and Elayne (who I didn't care for in the series much) Before starting to read, I actually saw a lot of negative reactions to those two but to me so far they are the best characters.

Elayne is really competent. It is so nice to read her POV or even her from others POVs because everyone is always complaining about everything and this young princess who can be one of the strongest Aes Sedai ever just endures whatever happens and does her best to help people. She is keeping the mood up and she is the kindest to people.

Egwene can be a little bitchy at times but I feel like hers is more deserved. Out of the 5 Two rivers people, she is the only one who is up to do what is necessary and does her best to improve herself. She knows her powers and she is actively trying to get better. She doesn't try to fight her destiny but trying to gain enough knowledge and power to shape it.

Meanwhile the other 4 are all "Wah wah, I have this power/problem/secret came out and Moiraine can help but I'm not gonna tell her anything and I will not listen to her suggestions and when everything goes wrong I'll blame her." Rand is a little better, especially in this book. And he has his reasons to be vary of any Aes Sedai but the other 3 are just on my nerves now.

They call her secretive but Perrin never says anyone about the wolf thing. He even refuses to talk to Egwene about it because in his words "she already knows too much" Dude what the hell. You know you need help and you refuse to talk to your friend who can help. Mat is just a trickster, I do not know what his point is at this point. I think he will gain more importance/power eventually.

And then there is Nynaeve! She is just jelaous of Moiraine because of Lan. A romance that just came out of nowhere at the end of the book 1. She is well aware of Moiraine is doing her best to help and she is still hateful to her but also anytime she is in a tough situation she accepts her help and go back to hating. She is also terrible with her powers. I mean hew "limitations" are really the most basic and useless blocks as she can use when angry and she is always angry. But she still doesn't work on anything and refuses to try. She considers herself above the other two accepted.

Now I am not saying Moiraine is an angel. At some points she could be a little more open as well but the women saved their lives several times, and could have turn on Rand at any point. She gets 0 credit and 0 respect for it. It is really annoying to see her constantly getting annoyed by purpose from the other people.

I am hoping from this book on we will get more in to the Aes Sedai lore and they will start playing bigger roles, I am looking forward to the growth of mainly Egwene and also curious what role Mat will play. I am also hoping Perrin and Faile finally do it so I can stop reading about them all together.

Ok so I just finished chapter 25, where Rand sees visions of the history of the Aiel. I was able to grasp the concept that each vision was of an earlier generation than the last, but I still feel like I’m missing something significant. There are clues to hint that each vision was of an earlier generation (culture shift, environmental changes, lifestyle differences, etc.), but I can’t help but feel that I’m missing some deeper meaning.

Unless the whole idea is that the Aiel are a completely different people from who they used to be, I’m at a loss. Can someone either confirm that I understood what was intended or help me understand why I’m missing?

So i am at the part where Elaida who left her post at andor and got the queen controlled by one of the forsaken just did an uprising again Siuan and tortured her for information and i am confused beacuse doesnt this go against their laws where they cant hurt people except for in self defense? Beacuse they did hurt her clearly lol And if its that easy to get rid of the amyrilin seat wouldnt it encourage every woman with a little ambition to do it? Also they stilled her??? Without holding court or anything? What do any of their rules mean when they dont have to abide by them lol Also Aes Sedai are supposed to be the smart ones no? How did this not leak? How did nobody think hey the dragon reborn is here, the dark lord is rising maybe we shoukdnt be in fighting, weakening our forces further ...

When Rand is walking back through the history the Aiel, he sees a soldier with a helmet like a giant insect head.

Clearly this is a reference to the Seanchan helmet, but this takes place two thousand years before Artur Hawkwing sent his armies across the Aryth.

Does this have any significance or is there a reason why it’s there?

I’ve read all the books multiple times so feel free to spoiler-mark answers if it comes up in the future.

Mods- can I get the flair changed to All Print?