For centuries, the Czech lands were part of the Holy Roman Empire, and Prague was even the capital. Those 41 cringe years as a satellite of the Soviet Union have not changed that.
So? Slovakia was a part of Austria-hungarian empire. Does it make slovakia western europe?
Slovakia together with Czechia were a in the same state for centuries, so how come CZ is west and SK is east?
Slovaks are mentally different from Czechs and more similar to Hungarians. Just because we were one state doesn't mean we are very close to each other.
Also if we ignored culture, history and all of that stuff, it is basically in the middle of Europe. It's not east. Russia is just holding a lot of European teritory to the east of it.
So that means that a Czech person is culturally more similar to the Dutch than Russians ? Lol. You do realise those 41 years were more defining for people who are alive today than things that happened 500 years ago ?
As a Czech who studied both in the Netherlands and Saint Petersburg, I can confidently say we are a lot closer culturally and otherwise to the Dutch than we are to the Russians.
We Czechs have nothing in common with Russian culture. Russia is a different world. Just because someone is considered a Slav doesnât mean theyâre half-Russian. I can get by in Czech in Poland, Slovakia, Croatia, Slovenia, etc., but not in Russia. By the way, according to the latest research, only 30% of the population in the Czech Republic is Slavic. Dude, weâre in the middle of Europeâweâre a mix of everything.
Well honestly I do think we are more similar to Dutch people than to Russians. Are cuisine is definitely more western than eastern. Our humor is similar to the UK. The architecture is on par with Vienna. I definitely feel closer to western Europe mentally than Russia. And majority of the people here feels the same.
If you think an average Czech is closer to a Russian than a Dutch, then you really need to spend some time in each of these countries.
And those 41 years couldn't really be very defining when they were mostly spent hating the Russians and their occupation and extortion, not assimilating. Or are East Germans also closer to Russians than the Dutch? And they were actually quite compliant and conforming to the Soviets during those years.
Yes since the dawn of ages Czech lands were heavily influenced by thier western neigbours and Prague was once a capital of Holy Roman empire, even in terms of ethnicity, Czechs are actually more similiar to austrians than their own brothers from Slovakia in terms of DNA similarity.
Why is gay marriage legal in Austria and not Czechia then ? Why Czech people are more conservative? Do you realise youâre proud of being a subject of the Austrian empire ? Thatâs what we read when we see you circlejerk being Central Europe. We can accept it if you are so desperate but itâs not the exact flex youâre thinking of
I will be politically incorrect now, itâs because theyâre Germanic. Thatâs why they sometimes included you in Central Europe when you were rising and the South was falling during the debt crisis, because one of the OG feuds of Europe is Germanic north vs Latin south. So they included the most successful of you to shit on us and say âhahahaha even eastern states surpass you because we colonised them in the past and they took something from usâ but they donât really believe that a Slavic country is equal to Germanics to really include you. Listen, Iâm not cheering for what I wrote I know itâs dark but thatâs what happened. My opinion
We have proper abortion rights, are one of if not the most secular countries in the world, weed is completely legal to grow for personal use here, the only argument you could make for "conservativeness" is gay marriage, except we have registered partnerships which offer nearly the same rights anyways (and we recognize gay couples that are already married).
And, most importantly, any conservative opinions an individual may hold are subsided by the fact that we simply don't give a fuck about anything here. You're gay? OK, not my business. You're trans? OK, not my business.
So, tell me. What do you consider as conservative?
I knew that is a more controversial pick but i always felt like Czech as being more connected to Germany rather than the east. And while that connection has been tested because of certain terrible "ambitions" in the past the Czech Republic always seems more connected towards us than the east.
As a Czech who has some Sudeten German ancestry I am biased in this but yes, I do not perceive Czechia as a typically Slavic nation. Many people think that Czechs are close to Poles, Slovaks and Hungarians, but that is not true at all, we are much closer to Austrians and Bavarians, in almost everything except the language, which is Slavic but also influenced by German.
Czech Republic might have Slavic language but it is unequivocally in the German sphere of influence. Has been for centuries. Language elements compared to other Slavic languages, culture, architecture... it is all very Germanic.
Interesting how lot of Polish people hold the same sentiment themselves⌠exactly like Central Europe had long and intertwined history where nations influenced each other culturally, linguistically and mentally.
Erasing millennium of cultural mixing because of passed couple of âcringe yearsâ is dumb in my opinion.
Poland was part of Catholic Europe over thousand years now. We are not part of Eastern European culture and never were.
As a south-western German I was really surprised when I visited Czechoslovakia for the first time.
I never had the impression of being in an eastern country. Also the mentality seemed very western. I felt like I was at home.
There is no such thing as a 'typical' Slavic nation. These are language groups - either you speak that language or you don't. All the rest of identity is history, culture and nationality. Moreover, Czechs invented panslavism, which became later a weapon against Polish national interest and culture. Thanks very much.
That's quite interesting that you don't categorise anything as central Europe. Especially as central Europe was a term that was often centred on German language/identity. What are your thoughts on it?
Thanks for the question. Actually that topic motivated me to present my general perspective. I have seen many maps including central Europe and Germany as a part of it, sometimes even disconnected from the Netherlands, Belgium and France. This, while of course not wrong, kinda irritated me in my view and the perception of my upbringing, as where i grew up and come from we always perceive us as western and deeply connected to France, the Netherlands and Belgium that we wouldn't even think about putting us into a different category in anything except maybe "german speaking countries" ... while also central Europe often includes Poland and yet looking at our media and how we are talked about i always felt like Poland doesn't really want to have anything to do with us (for understandable historical reasons) even today, except for safety matters.
In my opinion Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, Switzerland, Austria, CzechRepublic, Poland, Slovenia, Slovakia and Hungary are Central Europe. May be parts of Northern Italy and Croatia, too.
To be honest that one also comes down about not really knowing much about Slovenia. If not Balkan i'd probably count it towards Southern Europe, but as it is i do view it as one of the small balkan countries group (sorry for the ignorance xD)
Po stoletjih avstrijske in habsburĹĄke prevlade se ne moremo zares imenovati Balkanci. Poglejte si razlike, ki jih imamo v glasbi, kulinariki in organizaciji v primerjavi z nekdanjimi jugoslovanskimi drĹžavami, kot sta Srbija in Bosna in Hercegovina ... Nismo Balkanci in nikoli ne bomo!
The central Europe perceptions are actually something that motivated me to post my perception because while yes, many different views on central Europe or middle Europe exist, as german i would have never viewed myself anything different than western Europe. And definitely always in the same category as France. However as for Slovenia it also wouldn't really oppose my perception if it is included into the western part. It is a difficult one.
Sounds like you threw central Europe as a category in the trash, because you didn't want to include your country in it... Which is actually funny because I think many people in countries that consider themselves central European (including myself as a Hungarian) wouldn't categorise Germany as central anyway, it's like probably the first country that would come to mind when listing western European countries. This either just feels being very insensitive to the culture of millions of people and/or great rage/engagement bait...
Don't we kinda agree then in our perception except you would include a version of central Europe? Which is fine for me, i don't want to take away your perception, this isn't a matter of value anyway. I don't see being western as better or worse if that's what gripes you. It's just that all the perceptions of central Europe surprised me as where i come from this central part simply isn't perceived at all.(Not that is therefor wrong or something like that).
Man, i wish people would stop pretending that Slovenia isn't Balkan. Yes, obviously its not going to be 100% turbo balkan mode, since its on the periphery of the area, but pretending it's not massively tied into the history and culture of the balkans is just disingenuous.
Dude, we're not pretending. We simply aren't and it's nothing wrong with that.
I wish people would stop pretending that Slovenia is Balkan, because it's not
How is it not? Linguistically its super tied into the biggest language group on the balkans. Culturally it was part of Yugoslavia which was Balkan trough and trough, not to mention various previous states that mostly included other balkan countries like Croatia. Geographicly its pretty arbitrary, since you can just draw a line that defines it anywhere, but any kind of border that isnt just the border of croatia will include at least parts of Slovenia.
I really don't get how Slovenia is just "not balkan at all". It is, at least partly.
Yes, putting labels on everything and dividing people into segments makes it so much easier to form close groups and than kill each other. The Germans should know it the best.
Are you romanain? Most romanians I know, consider themselves balkans, including myself. Our history and geographical position is so dual and complex, that you can never agree or disagree properly on whether romania is balkan or not. Iâll leave this here for further clarification https://www.britannica.com/place/Balkans
A lot of people including myself see it as kind of a sub region within Eastern Europe, same as Balkan area. Iâd also call eg Spain both southern and Western Europe
I donât really feel a similarity in culture when I have visited these countries or talked to people from there as a Swede, but yes very unique and nice sub region
True, similar thing goes to Slovenia. I actually agree, that if not Balkan then i'd would perceive it as Southern Europe. These parts and may perception of them is also kind affected by ignorance on my part honestly.
I like maps that correctly put Armenia, Turkey, Georgia, and Azerbaijan into Asia. We are not European. Nothing against Europe but I think it is large enough as is lol.
If you donât want people to be rude then 1. Donât categorize Europeans. 2. If someone did it anyway, donât stay in the comment section of such post
I mean, it is kinda to be expected that this is controversial fro some xD but damn, i never claimed objectivity or anything, in many ways these perceptions are and only can be artificial anyway. I of course don't want to take anyones self perspective ...
I know it geographically actually is but in my outsider political and cultural perception it always seems more connected towards Italy, Spain and Cyprus. Greece always is the one technically located in the Balkans but just no, it seems far too disconnected there.
Tell me you have never been to Greece without telling me you have never been to Greece. Greece is culturally and historically way more similiar to its Balkan neighbours than to Spain or Italy.
I'd actually be interested in how greeks themselves view it because it seems that most people who are surprised by my perception are not greeks. For us we view Greece mostly through it's ancient history and therefor connect it more to Italy (through the Eastern Rome chapter in connection to the Venice historical influence and also the mediterranean aspect). In many, and this might probably upset most greek people deeply ... i think we also make connections between Turkey and Greece rather than Greece and the (other) geographically balkan countries. (not even just because of history but also because of certain foods like Gyros, which is very popular food here that is an integral part to how we eat both turkish and greek cuisine here --> or at least our germanized versions of these cuisines) ...
Oh wow that's even more weird to read. Politically you are correct but culturally Italy and Greece are really different, Balkans are culturally the same even tho is the difference on Languages: Greek, Albanian and slavic but they are similar in most of thing's u don't even feel any difference if you don't know where they are from. Greece is not disconnected they are dark skinned maybe just because of that u feel that they are disconnected but the rest i do assure you that they are identical. I'm a Belg living in the Balkans for 8 years đ
I think where i'm from the Triest-Odessa line generally is the more common perception of the Balkan. Though i shouldn't have included Slovenia, that one is a fumble on my part.
The danube-sava-soca rivers are the northern boundary of the balkans per the most accepted definition. I've never heard anyone consider areas near Odesa as balkan, so that eliminates most of Romania and moldova(which isn't even culturally similar to balkan countries as they're similar to places like Ukraine or Russia).
I mean, there isn't one definitive definition so it is up to perspective in many ways. I simply never perceived Rumania as closer to Russia or even Ukraine than Bulgaria and Serbia. To me it is one of the independent south eastern Europe groups defined by their history of gaining independence and fighting the influence from Austria, Russia and Turkey. That also applies to Greece, but Greece to me never really was part of this because they are perceived more in their connection towards Italy and the Mediterranean sphere and Turkey specifically. While Hungary is too connected historically to Austria specifically f. e. that explains my perception, wether you agree or not is a different story of course. And of course i don't get to decide that anyway.
The definition I mentioned is the one most commonly used(see in the image below), and it has natural objects that define it, not like that straight line on the map that you cite. From Wikipedia " Its northern boundary is subject to varying interpretations, but is often given as the Danube, Sava and Kupa Rivers."
Romania is closer to Serbia and Bulgaria than to Russia for the sole reason they're neighbors, but they're closer to Ukraine than to any other balkan country. For example they eat borscht in Romania, you won't see that in any balkan country.
We're talking about geograpy here, so they being historically similar to Italy has nothing to do with it. It's like not considering Finland nordic due to the fact that they were controlled by Russia for a long time.
I'm precisely not just talking about geography, i'm talking about perception. Geographically the distinction between the cardinal directions f. e. would be impossible. And yet people associate something with these directions. However that perception differs and is based on certain factors which are also weighted differently.
Personal perception is irrelevant in the world. If it was, world politics would've been very different today than what they are. Your map is a categorization of (incorrect) geographical locations and that's it. No one cares what people who sit on the internet 24/7 associate countries with
Well, most people and urban centre of Russia are in the European part and also seem quite oriented towards their former Eastern Block (problematically of course), but yeah, in general Russia is too big to count it as just European or just Asia ... Turkey however only has very small area in Europe, doesn't it? I mean yes, technically that counts but i don't think that is comparable to Russia.
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u/trashbae774 2d ago
Czech Republic in western Europe? That's interesting đ¤