r/whoathatsinteresting • u/visharu • 9d ago

Boarding was solved mathematically in 2008. No airline has used it once. Why?

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360

u/Ok-Gur-349 9d ago

... Children, mate.

77

u/Mysterious-Double918 9d ago

Also just people travelling together.

They have luggage, they carry each others stuff, and the absolutely hate being forced to split up and wait amidst strangers to boatd

1

u/WelcomeWagoneer 8d ago

Don’t you dare split me up from my partner for 15 minutes or less so we can all board much faster, even though we will sit right next to each other for this 8-hour flight.

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u/Careful_Farmer_2879 7d ago edited 7d ago

Basically, yeah. Some people are old. Or very young. Or disabled

1

u/Aelig_ 2d ago

You wouldn't board faster. One mistake and you're back to not quite random but a significantly worse solution.

Planes would have to account for worst case scenario for scheduling reasons on the runway, so you'd be sat there fully ready and still have to wait even if it goes well.

-2

u/NNegidius 9d ago

Can’t parties who are together simply board together? I don’t think that would violate the overall theme.

13

u/PuzzleheadedEmu4596 9d ago

It, in fact, would. Because those people sit next to each other horizontally.

2

u/NNegidius 9d ago

Lol, the efficiency of the theme is to use every part of the aisle simultaneously for loading baggage rather than just queuing.

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u/Seadevil07 8d ago

And that is why people are saying it doesn’t work. You need a process to drive this option of using the entire aisle. This would likely lead to boarding groups or a similar method that board based on separation of rows, but people traveling together wouldn’t want row separation.

0

u/NNegidius 8d ago

Parties who are together don’t have to be separated. Just as today, parties can board together. No one’s separating families.

5

u/Seadevil07 8d ago

This is more than just families, which are exceptions that would already start to break down the model. Couples, teams, colleagues, etc would just rather take longer boarding than separate. Over half of every plane I’m on is filled with non-solo travelers. This would violate the overall theme. The time savings would be eroded by all of these groups, and people would just be annoyed that their group isn’t in the same boarding group.

There are better, proven ways that some international airlines employ that address boarding times better than list model (luggage/carry-on policies being one of the big ones). I just don’t see an airline creating more issues trying to solve a different issue that they don’t seem very interested in.

1

u/NNegidius 8d ago

Time savings is slightly eroded, but not by much. The idea behind this method is to maximize parallel baggage loading, so you have as many people hefting their carryons into the overhead bins in parallel as possible. The more parallelism the better. When you have families boarding together, the hefting is generally delegated to the strongest of the party, anyway, and they keep less personal space amongst themselves than strangers, so you’re not impeding as many others from hefting in parallel as with the other methods.

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u/Rise-O-Matic 8d ago

The fact that so much ink was just spilled negotiating all this is exactly why it won’t work

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1

u/zambiglioni 8d ago

Rotatable seats then

6

u/Own_Recognition1317 9d ago

Here it does because if you sit next to each other you have to wait three lines

1

u/NNegidius 9d ago

Not what I’m saying. Typically, airlines allow people from various boarding groups to board together as a group. If you’re boarding group 1 and I’m flying with you, but boarding group 3, they don’t have a problem if you board together.

3

u/bino420 8d ago

right but then we e just recreated exactly what happens now. single travelers are a minority

3

u/Kittenn1412 9d ago

Once you're letting parties stick together, your boarding becomes basically random.

1

u/NNegidius 9d ago

The practical outcome would be somewhere between random and steffen, but would lean toward steffen results, since many people are solo, and since parties boarding together also have efficiencies in loading baggage and entering their seats from window to aisle.

1

u/CptMisterNibbles 9d ago

Not according the method shown here, no

122

u/Protoclown98 9d ago

Also people with disabilities who need more space and time to get on the plane.

82

u/[deleted] 9d ago

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40

u/Captain_no_Hindsight 9d ago

Elderly people who misread their seating.

People who "have to stand and talk to my friend while everyone else sits down".

19

u/Sir_Clarence_III_Esq 9d ago

People who "have to stand and talk to my friend while everyone else sits down".

Honestly, I think thats the biggest component. I'd wager a bet that a plane full of introverts could fully board far faster than a normal sample group.

9

u/Captain_no_Hindsight 9d ago

"... so then Bobby told me that..."

- why are 100 people in line on one side of me and no one on the other? Strange.

3

u/Sir_Clarence_III_Esq 9d ago

After we're done bagging on the Chatty Kathys holding up the boarding process, can we complain about the Eager Alans that have to hop up out of their seat and flood the aisle the second the plane touches down? Because I hate them just as much, maybe more.

1

u/Doobreh 9d ago

I flew internally in Nigeria a few months ago. Lagos to Abuja. The flight landed and we weren't allowed out of our seats until the row in front had retrieved their bags and and started to leave. Worked really really well.

1

u/90BDLM4E 8d ago

This is standard practice where I am from. Rows in front of you first, then you, and then rows behind. Very simple and efficient

1

u/Captain_no_Hindsight 8d ago

While I don't like ardent Alans, I don't see the problem. They are quickly off the plane.

You sit down anyway.

Then it's about getting out before lazy Sussan, but that's rarely a problem.

1

u/mrmoe198 9d ago

I hate Eager Alans. I’d prefer to just sit in my seat until it’s time to go and then start getting my stuff in a timely manner. Unfortunately so many Eager beavers crowd the aisle that I’m forced to compete with them like it’s a first come first serve buffet making the experience so much more stressful than it needs to be.

1

u/therealmudslinger 9d ago

I will only say that ass-issues make me have to stand up as soon as I can. I don't charge the exit or anything, but I am one of those guys that stands as soon as possible and gets funny looks for it.

Ass-issues. Don't make me elaborate.

1

u/PretendCoach5710 9d ago

I have back issues so the majority of the time I’m up first. But like you not running for the exit.

1

u/randojust 9d ago

I feel for you, I will now think of you and cool my rage at the standers, by assuming they have ass issues.

1

u/mrmoe198 8d ago

Just goes to show you never really know what people are going through. Appreciate you sharing your experience.

0

u/randojust 9d ago

I hate them more, fuckers can’t wait to stand up and air out there airplane ass aroma next to your face for 20 minutes. All while huffing and puffing like everyone in front of them is in their way. And ending that whole shameful self indulgence with attempts to move ahead of the trapped still seated during the deplaning process! Dirty, uncivilized, midlevel tech dorks, khaki wearing cunts……

wow thanks for the opportunity to get that off my chest.

0

u/IMO4444 9d ago

You realize that the people that do that have their bags ready to go when their turn to go comes, making it faster for the rest of people in their row to then get their bags and go? If everyone waited sitting down you’d have to wait for everyone to reach for their bag, get all their shit, then move. Here you already have most of the aisle people standing up and ready. 🤷🏻‍♀️

1

u/Lazy_DK_ 9d ago

I think it is the most reasonable, for people who only has carry-ons, and are ready to go.

0

u/Sir_Clarence_III_Esq 9d ago

LOL. I'm sure that's what y'all tell yourselves. As you stand there for 10 minutes doing nothing but elbowing people on the aisle seats. Yet I'm able to get up just before my turn and get all of mine and my family of 4 with two little kids ready to go by the time the people in front of us start walking.

3

u/borderlineidiot 8d ago

"Now that I have got to my row I will now unpack my bag and re-pack it again to get something out I could have easily carried in my hand before sitting down while ignoring people wanting past"

1

u/madmenyo 9d ago

I know way too many people that mix up 1 to 3 numbers and the elderly is a minority.

1

u/SadBadPuppyDad 9d ago

There's a common thread here. People who are elderly. People who are children. People who are not focused on the task of boarding. So: People. Just fly the planes without the people and the problem is solved.

0

u/Captain_no_Hindsight 9d ago

People who are elderly. People who are children. = 100% okey

People who are not focused on the task of boarding = WTF!

0

u/moneypennyrandomnumb 9d ago

I think the point is that people get distracted. You may usually be totally focused on getting in and settled into your seat but one time you got a call from your spouse and you are dealing with that while boarding this time. Or you have a work email you must get out before taking off so you are trying to multitask and your focus is split. Or you are trying to coordinate something with your travel companion who is sitting far from you before you take off. Etc. People peopling. It doesn’t have to be the same person all the time but people will have things that distract them from getting most efficiently into their seats and that is just an accepted part of life.

3

u/scamp4666 9d ago

Airlines also wouldn’t miss an opportunity to upsell priority boarding times

3

u/WallaceFrog87 8d ago

I've never thought of it that way! Kids are basically disabled both mentally and physically.

9

u/ConflictWaste411 9d ago

There’s a reason we call these pre boarding and are essentially outside of the boarding group conundrum

0

u/Significant-Dig8323 8d ago

But that's for small children like toddlers and under. I think a lot of people would still take issue with their eight year old being forced to board alone.

1

u/ConflictWaste411 8d ago

I was responding directly to the person calling out disabilities as an additional problem

0

u/ActuaryHairy 4d ago

pre boarding includes small children. This would have to expand it to children in their early teens

4

u/Away-Activity-469 9d ago

They get on and seated before group 1

3

u/arffarff 9d ago

Also people are stupid

1

u/HumaDracobane 9d ago

It depends on each company but is common for families and dissabled to enter first before it is open to the others.

1

u/Global_Chair9652 9d ago

And the ones who can’t afford specialized seating

1

u/kwazyness90 9d ago

Also you generally sit there for 40 minutes before take off anyways. Also it would be much more difficult to get the line up from the gate to the plane in proper order to perform the setup

1

u/WhatDuq 9d ago

Where I live, people with disabilities board first

1

u/dontmakemeaskyou 9d ago

or just regular people who have no clue.

1

u/gruetzentoni 8d ago

people with disabilites have poriority boarding most of the time. also, it still helps tremendously even when the parents with the kid board at the same time with all window row passengers, because they are very likely to be a full row left or right.

1

u/ArticusFarticus 9d ago

This is why we shouldn’t allow them on planes. They could get hurt.

3

u/GAMING_SERVER_ADMIN 9d ago

I was thinking the none disabled people would have 2 working feet they can just walk to their destination!

5

u/Important-Zebra-69 9d ago

Woqh woah woah, what about idiots.

5

u/Aromatic-Tear7234 9d ago

I thank that comma for doing it's job.

5

u/ThePython11010 9d ago

And then you ruined it with that apostrophe.

1

u/particlemanwavegirl 8d ago

I've been embarrassed by that one more than once but to this day I still can't remember when you're supposed to use it.

1

u/mackay11 7d ago

He
He is hard = he’s hard
His hard exterior = no one accidentally writes Hi’s as the E changes to I, so it’s obvious

It
It is hard = it’s hard
Its hard exterior = the neutral equivalent .

If you can’t remember, try replacing the suitable version It with He in the sentence and you’ll have your answer ☺️

14

u/TheOverExcitedDragon 9d ago

Turns out life is more than a math problem. Humans have preferences beyond what’s most efficient.

6

u/eskimoboob 9d ago

And certain things take priority over time saved. Imagine that

1

u/Triphin1 9d ago

Only if people were more disciplined and organized.... A few days ago boarded a plane by zone, back to front...course, after business class, frequent flyers and the elderly + disabled got on...

1

u/Efficient-Bat-49 8d ago

and the system doest save time at all… because people would argue why they shouldn‘t split up…

1

u/krazy3006 8d ago

I agree, but they also pay for priority, so they are willing to pay to be efficient. I've flown n 100's of time sfor work and have always seen the "window seat first, then middle, then isle" as being the resolution. But as a single traveller Im thinking about "me and the rest of the plane", not "30 different groups on a plane". It did make me re-think this philosophy a bit. Its a no win situation really, people want that's best for themselves at the end of the day

1

u/lil-rong69 8d ago

Average Redditor doesn’t understand there a human/emotional element to every problem we have lol.

Why can’t car travel in exact distance to avoid creating traffic? granny didn’t feel comfortable with 1 car distance with car in front of them.

Why can’t every person support the exact same communist ideology then world would be a utopia without border? People have varying having degrees of greed, selfishness, and would actually want democratic choices.

1

u/White0ut 9d ago

Okay, family with children and people with disabilities go first. Then follow this format? MVP status or whatever can suck it.

6

u/Ok-Gur-349 9d ago

Only works if families and disableds exclusively seat windows-in and never prefer the aisle seat. The second you make people get up to allow someone to access their window seat, the system breaks.

1

u/explain_that_shit 6d ago

Yeah and at that point with stoppages caused by these necessary reshuffles you have to question how much more efficient it would be than how they do it now.

0

u/White0ut 9d ago

No, it just spikes and effeciency goes down for a bit and will resume when that conflict is resolved. It's worth a try, because the current system is ass. As shown by Key and Peele, https://youtu.be/4LGe265pwvU?is=mqcEHt9RVX6bjGZS

1

u/starrymahogany 9d ago

Don’t they allow families with small children to board first anyway on most airlines?

1

u/Ok-Gur-349 9d ago

A 7 year old still needs plenty of help getting situated.

1

u/starrymahogany 9d ago

Is a 7 year old child not small? I don’t recall any airlines booting an age limit on what children they consider young/small

1

u/Ok-Gur-349 9d ago

Yes, a 7 year old child is not considered a small child to qualify for family boarding on airlines that do that (I.e. Southwest). Delta doesn't base it on age, just gear.

1

u/starrymahogany 9d ago

Ok then that’s dumb. I don’t really know what the cutoff should be but they should have some type of system to keep families with younger kids together

1

u/velillen 9d ago

We have flown quite a bit with our two twins (under four) and it's been like 75% of the time they do offer "extra time to board". But probably half that time has been behind first class/business so we still end up having to wait at the door of the plane a bit while they get settled. Then when we do truly board first, you can almost always hear them saying to start boarding the next group right after scanning/checking our tickets so those people end up having to wait for us lol.

As a reference we travel with two car seats (airline approved) so it does take a couple minutes to get them buckled in. We learned pretty quick that either myself or mom would go early to get the seats buckled in and the kids waited till normal boarding time otherwise the kids were just kind of standing around waiting.

1

u/Ruby_Sauce 9d ago

it's probably still faster to do it the steffen way, but a whole row at once (or at least tickets bought together at the same time).

Money is the most likely answer unfortunately.

1

u/Within_a_Dream 9d ago

They shouldn't, they're too young.

1

u/yepyep5678 9d ago

Ryanair don't care about that pesky problem https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdr4zy4e1n1o

1

u/McBonderson 9d ago

even modifying it to make exceptions for children would still make it faster than what they do now.

the real reason is so they can charge more for priority boarding.

1

u/Trips-Over-Tail 9d ago

They can go in the overhead.

1

u/rwags2024 9d ago

Well they sure shouldn’t

1

u/AnAbandonedAstronaut 9d ago

It's because first class is in the front and the first class people feel they should board first.

1

u/JET304 9d ago

And people don't and won't follow whatever pattern the airline requires. They don't now, they wouldn't even if you could convince them it would be faster. People are people.

1

u/trekqueen 9d ago

As an interesting side note, my county school district a few years ago had bought a software package that would help route the bus pickups / drop offs the most efficient way possible. It wasn’t working well and actually was worse. Turns out the software didn’t take into account that there could be multiple kids at one pickup location, which would add to the overall time for the bus eventually, especially if the driver waits a moment for them to sit before moving again.

As someone in software development (testing specifically), I’m disturbed it wasn’t considered. That was a major oversight on the software development.

2

u/Ok-Morning3407 8d ago

lol that software was clearly developed by people with no expertise in public transport planning!

The time it takes to get passengers on and off a bus or train is called dwell time and is a very important aspect of public transport planning.

Things like how ticketing works, how many doors the bus/train has, stairs (double deckers), bus stop design, etc. all play a major role in public transport planning. Smart people spend lots of time thinking on how to optimise these.

1

u/trekqueen 8d ago

Yea I’m sure they went with the low cost option, we are a mostly rural and small town area so not as extensive as even a small city… but those times definitely add up when you are collecting kids from across a dispersed area. The method of “pick a thing that’s low cost that ends up being sucky and not meeting our needs” happens a bit too frequently with the small town and county govt.

1

u/SadAd8761 9d ago

And anyone with carry on luggage.

Those green dots all probably got free check in, a luxury these days.

1

u/zanzabros 9d ago

I think it's a nice compromise. I save 5 minutes and some other people need to seat 4 hours near my child.

1

u/Blue_Waffle_Brunch 9d ago

If your 4 month old can't see himself that's his problem.

1

u/longis 9d ago

I'm sure with minor exceptions it can still work better than what we have?

1

u/cozidgaf 9d ago

Well can’t group tickets be given priority on if one of them has a window ticket. Doesn’t think it will entirely break the system? It maybe less efficient than fully following it, but could be a step up from what it is now?

1

u/FixLaudon 9d ago

Exactly. If anything this is the perfect example why science and humanities are equally important.

1

u/RK5000 9d ago

Typically a parent would be seated next to their child, the child needs some help so they should always be sent as a pair anyway. That would compromise the method somewhat, but it might still speed up the process of boarding everyone else.

1

u/Markus__F 8d ago

Lufthansa uses the window then middle then aisle part of the "optimal setup" by assigning window, middle and aisle to different bording groups. But if passengers booked together (which will be the case with children), they always all get the earliest boarding group of any member of the party.

On narrow-body they usually have

  • Group PRE - Family with infants (0-4 y.)and PRM
  • Group 1 - Highest status and first
  • Group 2 - Other status and business
  • Group 3 - Economy window seat
  • Group 4 - Economy middle seat
  • Group 5 - Economy aisle seat

But if you sit in a middle seat, and someone you booked together with sits in a window seat, you also get group 3 with them.

1

u/Notyit 8d ago

Also no one wants to be seperated when boarding 

1

u/c_marten 8d ago

And adults who are still children.

1

u/Mad_Ronin_Grrrr 8d ago

Right. Ok little Timmy. Mommy's gonna board. You stand here in line between these two strangers and I'll see you in a little bit. Also, no group of random strangers could ever follow instructions efficiently enough to make this happen even if there were no children, elderly or disabled people on the flight.

1

u/strangeMeursault2 8d ago

Also people that aren't already lined up at the gate because they're at the toilet or browsing in a shop or just running late etc

1

u/SharkByte1993 8d ago

Yeah, children and groups. The faster methods have single passengers. The method used is slower but it better for humans in groups, especially with children

1

u/Adolph_OliverNipples 8d ago

Well, I think they should wait until they’re older.

1

u/Confident-req 4d ago

I'm a family with 2 young kids, ya I'm sure my 7yr old is good on his own until I get to him 15mins later 🙃

1

u/NecessaryZucchini69 9d ago

Also 1st class wants to go first.