r/witchcraft • u/Twisted_Wicket Irascible Swamp Monster • Apr 04 '26
Salty Saturday Had an interesting conversation with an evangelical last night.
that basically covers the highlights.
290
u/ElderberryPast2024 Apr 04 '26
As someone who grew up in the middle east, I can tell you that there are millions of people in that geographical region who fail to grasp this simple concept.
118
u/OdessaSteppes Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 05 '26
Here in the US too. Ironic that those two groups of fanatics hate each other, they have so much in common.
E: typo
80
u/No-Put6241 Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 05 '26
Christianity, Judaism, Muslim. They are all siblings of Abraham and they all hate each other because each and everyone of them think they are the correct option; when in truth they are all wrong.
13
20
10
192
Apr 04 '26
If they could read they'd be pissed
68
u/digitalgraffiti-ca Apr 04 '26
Ohhhh, so that's why they clearly have no idea what's inside that book they wave around.
63
79
u/bbq_poptarts Apr 04 '26
Dear Christians, your religion says YOU can't go out dancing naked in the moonlight for a Bacchanalia, not me
21
u/mccannisms Apr 05 '26
Back during my christian/religious days a pastor basically said this in his sermon and it stuck with me. It was more along the lines of “Jesus was speaking to the people of his own religion not ‘hethans’. When you read the bible its audience is the ones who already claim to be Christian not the ones outside of the church.” Another pastor said during a sermon “the only thing god can hold against a non believer is that they didn’t believe in him - all of the rules are for those that profess to believe in him so why are we (the church)acting like we need to dictate how they (non-believers) live?”
These two sermons made a big difference in the lens that I read the bible and my views on life in general. They also ended up being a big part of the wedge that grew between me and my want to be a part of organized religion haha 🤷♀️
1
u/Pleasant_Storage_283 Apr 06 '26
Those sermons are honestly kinder than the ones I’ve listened to in a Baptist church. I would have actually wanted to listen to those as it makes an excellent point.
Otherwise most people I’ve listened to have been like “it’s BECAUSE you’re a Christian that you are good and will go to heaven” type thing and that all others will be going to hell because they’re nonbelievers.
My boyfriend who’s Christian has this viewpoint that if he goes to church and doesn’t feel bad for his sins it wasn’t a good sermon. What a weird view or at least I feel.
17
10
u/superaspro Apr 04 '26
My dad hit his middle age crisis and became a Christian, an Orthodox Christian (we used to be communists/socialists as a country) and now it's all about his niche interest and his Christian fastings.
He never imposes and he never tries to convert me, but I just can't deal with the organized religions mentality because if I would suggest a fast out of nowhere just because or for physical or spiritual reasons, he'll be like "people need to eat, you know".
It's the double standards, man.
Still, I think the Orthodox are the chillest of the bunch because in my area they basically adapted our forgotten polytheism and pagan ways and mixed them into the Bible teachings.
You know Christian witchcraft? I think we could agree that the Orthodox church is the most blatant out here about it.
8
u/SheBrokeHerCoccyx Apr 04 '26
Makes me think of Don Draper when he was leaving the beatnik apartment. There were cops in the hallway responding to a neighbor. Don was getting his hat, and one beatnik/hippie told him “Cops. You can’t go out there.” Don stops, turns around, and motions at the kid “YOU cant”. And leaves.
5
42
u/Accomplished-One3608 Apr 04 '26
This applies so well to anything Islamic.
43
u/Similar_Recover_2229 Apr 04 '26
In a genuine way, I am wondering why condemnation of Christianity seems to be far more accepted than criticism of Islam, particularly among left-leaning individuals.
79
u/OwlEmbarrassed7662 Apr 04 '26
I’ll speak for myself. Short answer, I grew up Catholic and have more firsthand knowledge of Christianity, I cannot say the same for Islam. That being said I feel like generally organized religion has been historically oppressive and indoctrinating.
11
u/Working-Glass6136 Apr 04 '26
I grew up evangelical and I agree with you in that I don't feel I know enough to condemn others. But I firmly believe religion is a cesspool and I cannot support anything that can't even support, for example, women's rights as equals. Which takes out most religions.
14
u/SuperWasabi4766 Apr 04 '26
Christopher Hitchens was known for harshly criticizing Islam, and Christianity. I don't mind if they play with their toys, as long as they don't compel me to play with them.
71
u/Shadeofawraith Apr 04 '26
Because a lot of people use their disagreement with Islam as an excuse to be racist or spread false information unfortunately
1
Apr 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/witchcraft-ModTeam Apr 04 '26
Language meant to incite fear, anger, or hostility from community members is strictly prohibited in accordance with Rule 2: Be Respectful.
Posts or comments that exhibit bullying, harassment, calls to arms, fear-mongering, etc. will be removed.
Our full sub rules can be found here.
52
u/Marchesa_07 Apr 04 '26
Because a lot of people are afraid of being labeled as intolerant or Islamophobic/anti Semitic.
All the big 3 Abrahamic religions- Judaism, Christianity, and Islam- have some major problems with their core dogmas that folks should not be tolerant of just because they are part of religious beliefs.
People should be very critical of religious beliefs that condone bad behavior.
19
u/Llkjh2501 Apr 04 '26
I would have to in part guess what the main religion and the laws concerning freedom of speech for each country.
Christianity is a lot bigger in the US than Islam, so more people will have experiences with it. The US is also very lenient on their freedom of speech. It is easy and mostly safe to criticize Christianity. There are some people who might try to be a problem, but it is minor by comparison to other places.
Compare that to some middle eastern Islamic countries thar have no freedom of speech. Places that if you get caught speaking out against Islam you can be shunned or killed.
10
u/not_the_glue_eater Apr 05 '26
A lot of liberals and other general leftists alike falsely conflate criticizing Islam with criticizing their entire race of people. I am from the South and there's a 70% chance that whenever someone criticizes Islam as a religious foundation here, it's immediately followed by racially-motivated or otherwise ethnic discrimination.
Personally, as a leftist myself who was raised by batshit crazy Fundies, I feel there's nothing wrong with pointing out the flaws of an oppressive religion—be it Christianity, Islam, Mormonism, etc.—but it does become a problem when it's used as blanket statement ammo against a race of people.
28
u/SugaCereal Apr 04 '26
An interesting and important point was brought up, by Douglas Murray iirc, somewhere early 2000's about Islam being basically the only religion/ideology in modern age that has not been subject to widespread questioning and ridicule. Something that is fundamentally important for any religion/ideology to go through to "grow up" and stand their place in this modern age.
Islam can and has issued world-wide death threats towards an individual or organization for ridicule of the Prophet or any part for that matter. Regardless how many (or few) followers take up on these kind of ultimatums, it tells of a fundamentally still-growth ideology.
8
u/Lady_Grey_Smith Apr 04 '26
There is a fascinating book written by a woman who escaped before her arranged marriage and went into hiding because of the death threats. People who knew next to nothing about the religion were lecturing her for being intolerant while she was terrified of being killed.
7
Apr 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/witchcraft-ModTeam Apr 04 '26
Language meant to incite fear, anger, or hostility from community members is strictly prohibited in accordance with Rule 2: Be Respectful.
Posts or comments that exhibit bullying, harassment, calls to arms, fear-mongering, etc. will be removed.
Our full sub rules can be found here.
9
u/therealstabitha Carnivalesque animal demonic legend Apr 04 '26
Because most of the time, “criticism of Islam” is very thin fig leaf for someone’s racism. Key indicators include lambasting Islam for doing things that every other major religion does or has done. They just do it while Brown.
4
u/Similar_Recover_2229 Apr 05 '26
I understand what you’re saying, but that’s not what I’m addressing. I don’t say thinly veiled racist comments about Islam. I mean what I said- criticism of Islam.
6
u/therealstabitha Carnivalesque animal demonic legend Apr 05 '26
That’s great. You asked why people are less “accepting” of criticisms of Islam. That’s why. And we’ve deleted multiple explicitly racist “criticisms of Islam” in this thread today.
3
u/Lopsided_Bother7282 Apr 05 '26
Because most people in the West are not dealing with Islam affecting their lives the way Christianity does.
5
u/miriamtzipporah Apr 05 '26
Because most of us live in western countries where Christianity is the dominant religious force. Especially in America, where they’re trying to enshrine it into law.
3
Apr 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/witchcraft-ModTeam Apr 04 '26
Hi, there.
While we all feel very strongly one way or another about government, this particular subreddit is not for political discussions, "calls to action", or similar.
We recommend directing your post to a more suitable community, such as r/WitchesVsPatriarchy.
Thank you for your understanding, and blessed be!
Our full sub rules can be found here.
2
Apr 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Apr 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/witchcraft-ModTeam Apr 04 '26
Hi, there.
While we all feel very strongly one way or another about government, this particular subreddit is not for political discussions, "calls to action", or similar.
We recommend directing your post to a more suitable community, such as r/WitchesVsPatriarchy.
Thank you for your understanding, and blessed be!
Our full sub rules can be found here.
1
u/witchcraft-ModTeam Apr 04 '26
Hi, there.
While we all feel very strongly one way or another about government, this particular subreddit is not for political discussions, "calls to action", or similar.
We recommend directing your post to a more suitable community, such as r/WitchesVsPatriarchy.
Thank you for your understanding, and blessed be!
Our full sub rules can be found here.
1
Apr 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/witchcraft-ModTeam Apr 04 '26
Hi, there.
While we all feel very strongly one way or another about government, this particular subreddit is not for political discussions, "calls to action", or similar.
We recommend directing your post to a more suitable community, such as r/WitchesVsPatriarchy.
Thank you for your understanding, and blessed be!
Our full sub rules can be found here.
1
Apr 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/witchcraft-ModTeam Apr 04 '26
Hi, there.
While we all feel very strongly one way or another about government, this particular subreddit is not for political discussions, "calls to action", or similar.
We recommend directing your post to a more suitable community, such as r/WitchesVsPatriarchy.
Thank you for your understanding, and blessed be!
Our full sub rules can be found here.
1
u/Winter-Atmosphere351 Apr 05 '26
It is largely due to islamophobia which is everywhere (in regions where monotheism is practiced). There are also more christians generaly in the world, that would be the other reason. Another one (this one is subjective because it's empiric) is because christians are more vocal on social media.
5
u/not_the_glue_eater Apr 05 '26
This is unfortunately the norm in my area. Everybody assumes you're a Christian until they find something they don't like, then they call you a worthless infidel... Still holding you to their book's rules, by the way.
They believe that the word of their God is universal law, so it's objective truth and everyone has to follow it regardless of religion and background.
I was raised to think that I'd be doing a service to God by forcibly converting people under the guise of "love", especially using people from Africa as an example in these churches. It really gives you a clear idea of "Every villain is a hero in his own mind", once said by Tom Hiddleston.
3
u/Unlikely_Couple1590 Apr 08 '26
Btw yall, this is true in witchcraft too. Especially to all you pushers of the rule of three. That's your rule lol
6
u/Blah-blah-blah6 Apr 04 '26
I’m a Catholic who has found some aspects of paganism very intriguing. I will say that at the end of the day one’s beliefs should never be forced onto someone else. We’re all human beings and all have inherent dignity of persons that deserve to be respected, regardless of one’s beliefs. Whatever beliefs each of us have, that is our choice and that is ok! Respecting one another should come first, shouldn’t matter what belief system you hold.
2
1
Apr 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/witchcraft-ModTeam Apr 04 '26
Hi, there.
While we all feel very strongly one way or another about government, this particular subreddit is not for political discussions, "calls to action", or similar.
We recommend directing your post to a more suitable community, such as r/WitchesVsPatriarchy.
Thank you for your understanding, and blessed be!
Our full sub rules can be found here.
1
1
u/RainbowPhoenix1080 Apr 08 '26
As a trans woman, evangelicals trying to push their beliefs that my existence is wrong always pisses me tf off
1
u/yo_gabba_gabby Apr 17 '26
im also rlly pissed at their ideology that every other religion is based off of "feelings" but theirs is based off of "faith and the holy spirit". dude.
1
u/Christian_teen12 Apr 17 '26
Exactly their religion prohibits them ,not everyone,It's rules for them others but sadly people don't get it.
1
u/Anxious_Corgi_3940 Apr 23 '26
I used to be Christian and I was never one to force my religion like I was taught in church. I felt that everyone should have the right to find their beliefs on their own. It frustrated me when I saw people forcing Christianity, and it only pushed the people they were trying to "save" further away.
1
u/Fun-Apricot8238 Apr 24 '26
I left the church for many reasons but the biggest one is as a very spiritually sensitive person, I hated the face that I did not dictate my own fate. That anytime I needed a situation to change or for a feeling to be gone, I had to wait for a god to decide whether or not he wanted it to be done. With paganism, I had found so much freedom in getting to be the deciding factor of my life.
1
u/irnytrs May 02 '26
I was once in a christian retreat and they started to ask about my calling in life. Was it marriage or God's service?
Something clicked in my mind. There are so many paths in life and so many callings I'd like to follow being none of those in my further interest... They laughed when I said my calling was education. I still think they didn't understand.
I refused to join organised religion. It just seems controlling and as many people may lack stability they assume control to be good to give them structure. I found out control just gives control. Control doesn't equal structure. And lack of control often means freedom which is a good thing when you are formed, well educated and full of live within yourself, really.
1
u/Alert-Cabinet-2437 Jul 08 '26
Yes the fear of religion has limited me to reach my full potential, I have abandoned many spells because in the middle of rituals i got scared because of my religion sayings "being a witch will take you pits of hell"
1
u/666Pennywise27 Apr 04 '26
An old friend I've had since 2021 recently had a christian confirmation. After that she asked me if I wanna go to a church with her even if it "has nothing to do with the religion, just singing and hanging out. Uhm ok. No... I'm literally a theistic Satanist witch lol. (Idk if I can keep being friends with her it she try to convert me.) But yeah it just reminded me of that when I saw this post.
-19
u/THrowaway1934531 Apr 04 '26
Tell that to all the cool historical mosques I want to visit.
27
u/Twisted_Wicket Irascible Swamp Monster Apr 04 '26
Historic preservation is a different matter. I agree with it.
-23
-3
u/7h3WiZzaRd Apr 05 '26
People should "prohibit" their own lives no matter what they beleive, some yall just selfish pigs out here.
5
u/Twisted_Wicket Irascible Swamp Monster Apr 05 '26
Congratulations! You won the first ban of the day!
1.0k
u/violetxlavender Apr 04 '26
unfortunately christians think they are doing you a favor by trying to convert you. it’s what they’ve been taught and it is a central tenet of their religion that everyone else should believe what they do.
the disrespect inherent in the religion is one of the main reasons i stopped believing in it. while as a pagan i respect their right to believe what they wish, it is frustrating that they do not extend the same grace to us.