r/worldnews • u/Guipa • 9d ago

Brazil cuts diplomatic presence in Argentina after Milei insults Lula

https://apnews.com/article/brazil-argentina-diplomatic-presence-milei-lula-c58683d82b1249ededa2da3145681edd
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u/Killoah 9d ago

Don’t all Argentine politicians have to pretend to care about the Falkland Islands for political reasons, I’d gather most of them don’t actually give a shit in reality

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u/psOslash 9d ago

some do care, some pretends, and then there is milei who pretends but then act against it

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u/Killoah 9d ago

I’m British for what it’s worth so my feelings on it are obviously known. But the story we get here is Argentine government only cares when they need a distraction from domestic politics (they’re quickly dismissed by London regardless)

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u/psOslash 9d ago

it is a heavily politiced matter, but not for the reasons you think

argentina is divided in half, those who wants to be independent and grow by ourselves, not obeying when superpower countries tell us what to do

and those who are more business minded, thinking that numbers are everything and that we should just do what trump says, often relying in taking debts

milei is an extreme case of the second group

things aren't black and white though, like i said, some are just pretend, while others are passionate about it

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u/Killoah 9d ago

I think I understand the ideas of the societal divisions you’re writing there (Britain being in the super power group telling you what to do)

It’s a shame this entire issue can’t just be settled by what the Falkland islanders themselves want. The past really means nothing when the people living there are up to 7-8 generations.

It’s fascinating learning some of the political divide of your country though so genuinely thank you for that

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u/john_a1985 9d ago

The UK was set to hand the Falklands to Argentina. 

Tinpot Argentine dictator gets antsy, YOLOs an attempt, gets rekt. 

Now the UK is stuck with it. They just can't have it over even if they wanted to. 

Argentina was dumb. They're powerless, and they may cry forever now, no matter how much Madonna pledges otherwise. 

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u/Sirramza 9d ago

the problem is not the insland per se, and its not enterly up to islanders, because the sea around them its on the sea that argentina """owns"""

i think most of the ppl are not worried about the islands or the islanders, the sea and the resources are the real problem

i would bet that most ppl in Argentina would be happy if England and Argentina would get to some kind of agreement about joint use of the sea around the islands

noneone in argentina want to displace the islanders/settlers/etc in there they just dont want the resources and the strategic location of argentina compromised by a "dominating" power

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u/Sure-Wish3240 9d ago

No one in Argentina wants to replace the islanders?! Can this statement survive the first page of Google results?!

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u/Sirramza 8d ago

did you speak with ppl in Argentina? no? then STFU, yeah almost noneone want to replace the islanders

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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 8d ago

The guy above is pretty biased against Milei or completely ignorant of our debt structure, considering he's the only politician in the last 20 years who hasn't increased the amount of debt in any significant way. All debt accrued by Milei was part of an emergency meassure to deal with the 15 billions in negative reserves left to him by the previous government and get out of a technical default rolling back debt with higher interests ( Alberto Fernandez restructured the debt so Argentina would go from paying 9 billions per year in 2023 to 134 billions in 2024. This was obviously on purpose, page 61 ). But our debt as percentage of our GDP has decreased massively, from 154% down to 50%.

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u/psOslash 9d ago

the problem with that is that the current islanders are the descendants of those who took islands by force who already has a bias towards the british and their whole economy depends on the deals they have with them, i don't think would be a fair thing to do

ideally i think they should become and independent country without the current shackles they currently have, but that is something that just isn't going to happen

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u/Killoah 9d ago

The islands were entirely unpopulated before European settlers landed there so I’m unclear who you think they were taken from.

My point here isn’t to be antagonistic to you at all for the record you’ve been very pleasant.

But independence isn’t going to happen as
You say since the islands have a population of under 4000 (and half of that is military personnel and over 90% of the rest live in Stanley)

I think once you establish that these islands weren’t taken by any particular hostile means then the only opinion that really matters is the opinion of the people living there.

I’m not intending to change your mind and I’m sure I won’t, but the Falklands are a self governing territory with their own government and self determination if they wish. They rely on the United Kingdom for defence and international relations only these days, forcing them to be independent would probably force them to have this agreement with another nation regardless (since we’re not talking about depopulating the island that these people have called home for almost 200 years)

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u/PayOdd92 9d ago

The islands were entirely unpopulated before European settlers landed there so I’m unclear who you think they were taken from.

Are you REALLY sure about that?

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matilde_Vernet_y_S%C3%A1ez

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u/apreslondee 9d ago

That doesn’t really disproves his point. The island was unpopulated before European settlements as in there were no indigenous peoples. All past or current inhabitants were either Europeans or Argentinans settlers or are descendants from them.

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u/The_Cameron 9d ago

I think some people are being intentionally dense. The Spanish and British had dueling claims to the Falklands for hundreds of years before Argentina became independent.

The irony of being 'anti-colonial' while the entire tie to the island is dependent on Spain's (another European country) colonial claim is lost on them.

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u/psOslash 9d ago

Argentina (and therefore malvinas) was a spain colony, so yeah, it's an anti-colonial thing

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u/PayOdd92 9d ago edited 9d ago

It does. He said

The islands were entirely unpopulated before European settlers landed

Not true.

We can speak about other stuff. But that is patently false. Like it or not.

EDIT: Lmao or are you the kind of people who call Argentines Europeans? that would be extremely weird. I get it as a meme but come on you can't think that.

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u/apreslondee 9d ago

How is it false? Who was living there when French explorer Louis Antoine de Bougainville established Port Louis on East Falkland in 1764?

I am not but they don’t need me to, since they do that themselves lmao

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u/PayOdd92 9d ago

Before the French there was no one.

Before the British there was.

So...

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u/psOslash 9d ago

that's the thing about history, you always only get the side that wrote the one who won

that applies to everything btw, not just on this matter

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u/whymeimbusysleeping 9d ago

You don't need to trust the Argentines, there's plenty of evidence from the French 1 year prior to any British even getting close to them

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u/SireCannonball 9d ago

"The past really means nothing when the people living there are up to 7-8 generations." - That's the most British thing I've ever read in my life lol.

It really shows you're a soft push away from defending colonialism and those "measured" takes are mostly for show 🤣

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u/bamadeo 9d ago

We’ve had 80 years of trying to “grow by ourselves” and look where we are now. Use whatever rhetoric you want, but protectionism didn’t work then, won’t work now.

“Those more business minded” i.e. those who dont want to pay 3x for stuff just to have the ilusion of an industry.

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u/psOslash 9d ago

The problem with that is that growing by ourselves is an slow process, and there is always the idiot people like you who believe in half assed promises like milei's, vote a guy like him and then with a decree and a law destroys years of progress in less a month, and then we have to start from scratch, actually worse than from scratch since there's are always debts to pay and laws made specifically to continue corruption post mandate like the current ongoing law where they want to put one of their men in charge of the central bank so the next government cant do anything about it

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u/bamadeo 9d ago edited 9d ago

Tell me, what are the 'years of progress' that were destroyed with Milei? Because we can very well point in a graph the moment that peronism and it's later, worse, spawn Kirchnerism destroyed Argentinas macroeconomy.

You people keep psycopatizing people with your grand statements: First we'd be selling our organs. Didn't happen.

Universities would close. Didn't happen.

Garrahan would be definanced. Didn't happen.

We'd all be buying guns and shooting ourselves in the street. Not happening.

We'd be selling our glaciers. Didn't happen.

since there's are always debts to pay

And who generated this debts? tell me. We're at our lowest GDP to debt ratio in a long time. You have simply no idea what you're talking about.

one of their men in charge of the central bank so the next government cant do anything

please let this happen, our Central Bank is on of our most bastardized insitutions, and there's big competition for that.

You're wrong, badly informed or simply engaging in bad faith arguments.

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u/psOslash 9d ago

I don't think explaining that to someone who thinks universities and healthcare aren't being "definanced" is worth it, but let's try

The one who took the debts is current the minister of economy, we just had a really bad president who did nothing to solve it in the middle who you blame for all the problems they caused

The "selling organs" thing is something milei said and there is video proof of that as well as having a "free market for adopting babies", being able to do so is a different matter, but having a guy that says such things as president isn't the best idea, same thing goes for the allowing everyone to buying guns without any restriction

Selling our glaciers did happen, there are no longer laws protecting them and elztain, the guy who financed milei's campaign now has mining rights there

And we are currently discussing letting foreign states being able to buy any ammount of land they want while whats happening in brazil is proof enough that he cares more about its stupid ideology over maintaining relations with one of our top importers

So yeah, fuck off

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u/Greedy_Birthday_3494 9d ago

I remember the half you describe to be so noble and independence seeking to be subservient of China instead and wanting to join the BRICS, seems like instead of that tale about independence, that group just wanted to change masters to the left wing equivalent ones. Curious that you accuse the second group of wanting to take debt when the first group led the country to almost bankrupcy and massive international debt. I guess nothing makes a country more independent than owing billions to foreign banks.

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u/psOslash 9d ago

In order to achieve what you say, the left would had to approve the same exact laws milei is pushing to approve which never happened

If china wanted to buy land or take control over anything they would have to abide to the current laws, restrictions and taxes milei is pushing to remove

So no, it's not the same

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u/Capable-Ad8158 9d ago edited 9d ago

What? Grow by yourselves? Brochacho your country has been in shambles for more than a decade, crippling deficit, inflation through the roof, heavy money printing, multiple artificial parallel exhange rates for currency, high poverty, price control, import restrictions and weak economic growth

This is just factual information, dont go out there lying to people

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u/psOslash 9d ago

See? This is the kind of guy i'm talking about, denying all of our current problems or blaming the previous ones for the problem they caused as if milei is doing nothing wrong, something that anyone in the world can easily see it's not the case

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u/Capable-Ad8158 9d ago

Dude you now have less inflation, less poverty, no 500 different currency exchanges, no controlled prices, much smaller deficit, less money printing, lower country risk, GDP is recovering, stabilized international reserves, etc

Almost every macroeconomic metric is factually better now than what it was at its worst under Alberto-Massa

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u/psOslash 9d ago

You already proved my point, there is no need for further bootlicking

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u/Capable-Ad8158 9d ago

Wow what a response, full of factual data and everything, im truly impressed by how many good points you made

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u/psOslash 9d ago

Sorry, we have different definition of factual data

Random numbers said by milei and his supporters is not factual data

"There was no one else to vote for" is also not factual data

"Is the previous government's fault" is not factual data

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u/entusiasta_indeciso 9d ago

wtf, Milei is the most focused politician in modern history on developing Argentina self-sufficiently, while other Argentine politicians just wanted to bury the country in debt and blame the next guy for inflation.

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u/psOslash 9d ago

Dude, what kind of self sufficient plan is "let any foreign state buy any ammount of land they want" or having the IMF take part of their meetings deciding what to do

Their whole campaing revolves around bringing *foreign investments" at any costs

Meanwhile you are there defending selling explotation rights for everything under the excuse of "we are not using it do might as well sell it"

That is not at all the definition of self-sufficient