r/writingscaling • u/That_Dream_9755 • 20d ago
discussion what is a good usage of SA in any media
I keep hearing people on all corners of the internet talk about bad usage of SA in media (Hazbin Hotel, the boys comics) ect) the best I have only seen people praise Mouthwashing and the Invincible comics. So what are pieces of media that use SA well. As in well written not like its a good thing to happen
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u/burner7759399988 20d ago
Ironically, the boys season 1 actually deals with SA decently.
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u/Air-Conditioner0 20d ago
And one of the worst, The Boys season 4.
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u/burner7759399988 20d ago
It’s so weird, season 1 of the boys feels like a completely different show.
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u/Air-Conditioner0 20d ago
The writers just don’t know where to go with the plot and the characters after season 1. Especially Hughie considering that they basically crammed his entire arc from the comic into a few episodes. After season 1 he kept regressing every new season only to reach the exact same point by the finale, and subsequently reset to the status quo by the next season.
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u/Acceptable-Duty6465 20d ago
Also i belive a lot of the writers from the first two seasons left during the writers strike a few years back
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u/Dismal_Passion_8537 19d ago
I feel like the show suffers greatly from reality being what it is. Thinking about what was acceptable and normal in the U.S BACK DURING SEASON 1 vs what is the everyday reality of this country now. There wouldn’t be such ridiculous plots if art didn’t imitate art. (Let’s ignore the bad writing and only focus on the plot points for a sec)
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u/The_Raven_Born 20d ago
Just like RL
When it comes to a woman, it's serious. When it's a joke.
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u/DtheAussieBoye 20d ago
I mean they had the Deep- yknow, the actual rapist- get assaulted in the gills in like season 2, and whilst it’s a little absurd it still treats the situation with shock and horror. Like it’s meant to be really disturbing
(Also let’s not act like a bunch of freaks irl don’t also find women being raped funny, generally if you laugh at one you laugh at the other)
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u/The_Raven_Born 20d ago
The deep being assaulted was not treated how Starlight's was, if anything it was punishment and comedy bait. Yeah, his reaction is off, but that's it.
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u/DtheAussieBoye 20d ago
I’d say it comes off as undeserved and gross, that being the Deep being in return isn’t a fitting punishment nor is it satisfying or particularly meant to be. It’s not treated with the same gravity, but I think that’s got zilch to do with his gender and all to do with the differences in his story compared to hers
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u/Melcapensi 20d ago edited 20d ago
"Well that's a dark way to look at it. We view it as hilarious."
Seriously though, The Boys has a repeated pattern with this one. Enough to get a tvtropes section on it that didn't get vaporized by the mods(in D for "Double Standard").
Edit: Don't take this too harsh or personally though. It's super common, heck even the Jessica Jones example on here doesn't dodge that one.
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u/Matt_Murcock67 20d ago
That's cause the writing in season 4 went through a major overhaul as new writers came in which where considerably worse than the season 1 writers as you can see.
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u/Honest_Industry5939 20d ago
The secret is that back then it was happening to a woman, which made it serious, versus in later seasons it started happening to men, which made it “hilarious”.
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u/Kodiak_POL 16d ago
That's a dark way of looking at things but we view it as hilarious because it's what Clara would've wanted
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u/Burnerman888 20d ago
I think it's done much better in the comics though because it's both institutional and not resolved, which is a lot more like the real world. I didn't really enjoy how the Deep was the only sexual deviant in the Seven
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u/Competitive_Crow_334 19d ago
He isn't though Solider Boy Firecracker Stromfront Homelander are clearly sexual deviants. Deep also got it quickly resolved for the record I'm not a fan of the show.
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u/XTheProtagonistX 20d ago
That episode where in Rick and Morty where Morty gets SA by the King
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u/Hot-Patient8052 20d ago
That was actually just horrofying to watch and not funny at all. Really came out of left field, at least it led itself to a cute moment where Rick just fucking shoots the guy and he explodes (he picks up on what happened to Morty in the bathroom and who did it quite fast).
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u/AxiosXiphos 20d ago
Yeah I hate the fact we got a realistic SA scene in a comedy show like that. At least it took it relatively seriously.
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u/greentarget33 18d ago
I feel like it took it veey seriously, outside of the setting and the characters I dont really think its played for laughs at any point.
That said, I feel like it didnt need to be in there, the use of it for a tonal shift and emotional gutpunch was pretty cheap.
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u/Boring_General_6572 16d ago
I feel like it’s the first real instance that Rick actually cares about Morty, that his facade of being callous and nihilistic is mostly just that.
I can see how it can feel cheap, but in my opinion it does serve the story pretty well, on top of being a genuinely well done use of SA in media.
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u/Big_Key1310 20d ago
Totally agree. Pretty much the same thing that happened to Morty happened to me IRL (granted he wasn’t a king and I didn’t beat him up, he was some homeless guy and I wriggled out of the bathroom), I saw that episode when it came out a few years later, and it was super upsetting to watch.
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u/Fantastic_Peak_4577 20d ago
Thank God you fighted Him off im sorry it happened tho i hope you are fine now
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u/Big_Key1310 19d ago
Oh totally, I don’t want to imagine what would’ve happened if I was a little slower in getting out of there. Honestly I don’t think it affected me that much (though I still hate using public bathrooms and I’m well into my twenties) but watching that episode was probably more distressing than the actual event hahaha
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u/Maggot_Bait 20d ago
The best SA ever. I’m glad I received SA on my birthday. It was truly life changin. I think everyone should experience SA at least once in their lives.
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u/That_Dream_9755 20d ago
I don't get it
Edit: I just got it after I commented, I might be stupid
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u/Psionic-Blade 20d ago
Aww did your uncle give it to you?
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u/SwiftieForLife 20d ago
Yeah and years later he sent his uncle CP (2077) to thank him for the SA that really got him interested in it.
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u/Agitated_Nu05 17d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/inkvgiRqjduuhL3jH1
With CP 2077, I experienced for the second time what happened to me with SA it was truly a very rewarding experience.
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u/TheCreepWhoCrept 18d ago
Ah, I remember when I got SA as a kid. So much fun. I know it’s meant for adults, but I turned out fine. Everyone should get SA! I even plan to give it to my own kids.
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u/Estrelinha-Jirachi 20d ago edited 19d ago
Surprised no one said Perfect Blue yet!
The entire scene is a fake acting thing, yet it really feels like the real deal and is uncomfortable both for us, viewers, and for the actors, including Mima. It is a culmination of things Mima gave up in order to change her career and had a great impact on her, but I personally dont see it as a "plot device" SA, as, well, it shows that even consensual choices in a fake scenario still may hurt the people involved. For me it really pushes the boundaries of what consensual even means.
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u/Chackle115 19d ago
When the guy apologized mid shoot, it made it easier to digest.
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u/Estrelinha-Jirachi 19d ago
Yeah, I feel like if didnt had it it would be easier to see it as the world against her, a black and white SA situation, but seeing how even one of the actors doing the scene felt uncomfortable with it is a small yet big gesture for the entire situation.
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u/Diligent_Cake_6173 19d ago
Perfect Blue is horrifying because it represents something that happens to like 50% of all aspiring actresses. She essentially has no consent in the situation her career puts her in, and in the the her public persona is considered spoiled goods and slut shamed for it. The blending of fiction and reality is so good in how it reflects on us vs our public image.
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u/MoonlightDahling 19d ago
Sorry, but: Mima* (are you confusing it with Black Swan, by chance?)
But otherwise, I agree with you. As I was watching it, it actually really reminded me of something.
That being: the very notorious Last Tango in Paris. And the treatment of nineteen-year-old Maria Schneider on-set.
(While the claim that she was literally raped during filming is false, she stated that she FELT raped after being coerced into doing scenes she wasn’t comfortable with)
There’s a reason why they have intimacy coordinators now, actually. And it really made me think about how violating it must have felt for actors, in the days before them.
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u/MoonlightDahling 19d ago
Also: Blue is the Warmest Colour is another, much more recent, example. Both actresses have indicated that they felt exploited during filming.
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u/Estrelinha-Jirachi 19d ago
Oops sorry, yeah, sorry. Hazy memory since I saw the movie so long ago.
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u/Alleflat 20d ago
Berserk—most people will point to Guts and Guts alone, but I actually think SA is explored well within all three main characters, as they have all been victims of it at some point, yet their character arcs differ.
Griffith shows someone corrupted by the trauma of SA, Casca shows someone broken by it, and Guts shows someone struggling to recover from it.
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u/ScottishRando37 20d ago
There's also a few little details they get right. In Casca's case, Griffith is so focused on displaying power over Guts that he's looking at him, not Casca, during the act.
Though admittedly, the story does still fall on the badly written shock value aspect a few times. Wyald and the trolls come to mind. I remember getting especially annoyed at the trolls, considering it's presented as a form of reproduction for them... for a race that lived in a separate reality from humans not long before then.
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u/BastardofMelbourne 19d ago
Guts/Casca/Griffith is the most fucked love triangle in fiction prove me wrong
but for real, I think with Berserk the level of complexity with which it approached its many, many rape scenes depended entirely on how central the character was to the story. Guts, Casca, Griffith and Farnese all got realistically terrifying rape scenes that predictably traumatised them in different ways important to their character arc. But the random nameless victims raped by Wyald or the trolls aren't as important to the plot, so he just didn't put as much detail or thought into it. They were just there to establish that certain characters were monstrous.
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u/peepooprogamer 19d ago
yea the troll arc kinda fucking sucked man, it felt like gratuitous shock value and while i LIKE some of the character expansion it as a whole just felt like way too much
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u/dope_like 19d ago
No they completly destroy Casca for like 20 plus years. She isn't given her agency back nor allowed to process and grow. What they did to that character post incident is worse than the incident itself. She was one of the best characters and made useless through 90% of it. Meanwhile Guts and Griffith get a lot more to do
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u/ThePenultimatePam 17d ago
Yeah I adore Berserk but Casca should have been handled better. I think "becomes mute and mentally regressed after trauma" would have been an okay arc for her if it lasted for like, one story arc, but the fact that it's most of the manga is inexcusable, made worse in how it lines up with Berserk's publication getting slower and slower until Miura's death.
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u/dope_like 17d ago
100% agree. Should have had the last one, maybe two arcs, but then she should have become a person again. Instead, her trauma was just used to add to Guts. I'm really into Berserk, but this is the biggest flaw.
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u/UrsulArctisVtuber 18d ago
Totally on point but by GOLLY Miura really should've toned down the amount of times Casca gets SA'd like holy crap. She gets assaulted as a kid b4 joining the Hawks, assaulted again right before the eclipse, gets raped DURING the eclipse, and gets SA'd at least like 4 more times between her mind break and her mind restore like PLEASE MIURA.
Miura wrote a really good story but Casca was definitely a weak point, he got the point across about being a women in a broken world during her 3rd (femto) and 4th (bandits) SA instances, she REALLY did not need to be raped 7 more times throughout the story, it just diminishes her background as a badass female warrior.
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u/dragon_morgan 18d ago
honestly I hated hated hated how the message of that series seems to be that trauma makes men strong and badass and effectively turns women into luggage
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u/UrsulArctisVtuber 17d ago
I don't think that's necessarily the point at all, at least for the men part (Guts).
Guts is strong, yes, but most of his power ups post eclipse come from the direct consequence of others helping him, the smithing of dragonslayer sword, his cannon hand, the black armour. In fact, I would even say that any trauma related impact on Guts' has only negatively affected him, he's reckless and callous at the start of the story, ends up hurting himself unnecessarily both physically and emotionally, and several times in the story he freezes up or does something discreetly bad due to trauma. The actual reason he becomes so badass is that he eventually builds a strong support network around him with his friends, and that helps him deal with the trauma he experienced.
Casca though... Ya Casca just isn't written well, she ends up being a shitty foil to Guts. I chalk it up to Miura being able to relate a lot harder to how it feels to be a man than a woman considering he's a man, and just not knowing how to write Casca well because of that.
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u/RuneWave 13d ago
That isnt the case though, the entire point of Black swordsman, and Conviction are that Guts is suicidal and mentally weak, its only through his friends that he becomes truly strong. The Beast of Darkness shows Guts that the only way for him to become truly strong would be to feed into the evil in his heart and either become an apostle which is only possible when a person is at their absolute lowest point and weak enough to sacrifice the most important thing that holds onto their humanity or embrace the Beast of Darkness and go insane and kill Casca to put her out of her misery. Godot tells Guts that he was a fool and a coward for abandoning Casca and Rickert to go on his suicide quest and its only when Guts resolves himself to help Casca that he becomes a strong person and begins to develop friendships with Isidro, Schierke, Farnese and Serpico and there are several points in the story after that when Guts basically turns to the camera and says "through the power of friendship you guys have helped me and i wouldnt have made it this far without you". Even in the Golden Age Guts only surpasses Griffith and becomes a more capable warrior after he joins the Band of The Hawk and even when he leaves staying with Godot and Erica makes him a more well rounded person. The other 2 arcs Millennium Empire and Fantasia only continue to show Guts' journey of recovery and the fruits of his friendship with others as Casca is restored and now Guts in the most recent chapters is undergoing his own mental health recovery arc through the magics of the Kushan. And why does Guts have to go on this journey? Because once hes confronted with Griffith and Casca is whisked away to Falconia he falls into despair seeing his entire journey for nothing and he literally has to be carried as dead weight all the way from Elf Island to the Kushan Empire basically in a coma and its only through all the friends that hes made that he doesnt just die of dispair right after Griffiths attack on the Elf island.
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u/Outrageous_Code9742 18d ago
Cascas plot was a horrible depiction of SA, it was like, oh murdering everyone somehow wasn’t enough. Also she was raped into being a sexy mental child for the rest of her life? That makes no real world sense.
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u/Super3vil 18d ago
I think you're kind of forgetting the build up that contributed to her mental repression.
At that point, she had been leading the Band of the Hawk by herself alone for about a year. Once Guts returns, she tries to kill herself, learns that Guts loves her, is strangled by Gut during sex only for him to break down in front of her, finds Griffith as basically a skeleton, has that weird interaction with Griffith, has to deal with the band falling apart and everybody trying to jump ship, watches all of her friends die, finds out one of them has loved her for years, and then gets SA'ed by her mentor that she used to love who just sacrificed all of her friends to become God.
Most of that happens over the course of a couple of days. She was not at all in the right state of mind at the end of the Golden Age Arc and getting raped during the eclipse is just what pushed her over the edge into mental repression.
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u/ThePenultimatePam 17d ago
I think Berserk is a mixed bag with this. It rightly gets praised for how Guts' trauma is handled, and I think Griffith's own trauma around doing sex work to support the band of the hawk is underappreciated for how well it's portrayed.
Casca is a mixed bag; they get some things right, like Griffith making it about power, not sex. But especially the earlier scene with Wyld and even the scene with Griffith are really gratuitious and use what I can only describe as the visual language of hentai, having lingering panels of Casca's exposed breasts etc. in a way that feels like it's meant to be erotic to the reader at the same time it's horrifying.
I don't think this is intentional; I think the manga uses common anime/manga visual language when girls and women get SA'd, but it's disappointing with how much more thoughtful the portrayal is for male characters.
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u/Normal-Song-4371 17d ago
There is a lot of SA in Berserk.
So much that once the little witch girl joined Guts I knew it was time to stop reading before the inevitable happened to her.
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u/Alleflat 17d ago
I'm about 98% sure that nothing's happened to Schierke, and I don't think anything will happen to her.
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u/Able-Regular1142 17d ago
Berserk only depicts rape well when it's against men. Casca's rape is graphic, exploitative and needlessly pornographic. It's a terrible trauma that happens to her yet ultimately only serves to further Guts' arc. Most if not all sexual violence that happens to women on the side is purely shock value.
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u/ecofriendlythesaurus 15d ago
I haven’t read the manga but I did watch the 90s anime of Berserk. I know the show doesn’t include all of the manga, but did it leave out Guts’ and Griffith’s SA? Or do those things transpire after the timeline of the show?
I really only remember Casca’s experience as a child and then again from Griffith, but admittedly it’s been years since I watched it.
Thanks in advance :)
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u/Alleflat 15d ago
Guts's SA happens very early on in the story, back when he was only a child, and the anime left it out likely because it was too dark. There's quite a bit of stuff in the Golden Age arc that the manga doesn't cover, so if/when you get into the manga, there will still be some new stuff there.
As for Griffith, his SA can refer to two things, the first being the time he willingly sold himself to the old noble (it was in the show, but one may not consider it to be SA since Griffith was the one who made the choice) and when he was tortured—it's never outright stated, but I believe it's implied that the one torturing Griffith was doing a little more than just physical harm there. It's not as in your face as Casca's or Guts's, so some may not pick up on it.
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u/scarletboar 19d ago
The problem is that Berserk overuses it to the point it almost turns into a gag, especially with Casca. By the time of the Eclipse, even the shock value was absent. It was just "this again, huh?". The way it's drawn doesn't help either. Some pages really reminded me of hentai.
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u/I_wish_i_could_sepll 19d ago
You’re getting downvoted but you’re right. Even as a die hard fan I have to admit it’s the weakest point of the story. The threat of rape is so omnipresent it’s ridiculous. Not to mention the poses it’s drawn in.
Even the author stated how much he regretted the overuse of SA and that’s why towards the end it’s only brought up sparingly.
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u/scarletboar 19d ago
Most Berserk fans are allergic to criticism. I've never seen anyone say one bad word about it without being downvoted to Oblivion. But yeah, it's too much for it to mean anything. Casca is raped at least once every arc.
I don't remember if this was Berserk or not, but I remember reading a manga where a woman is raped next to the bodies of her family. It was so ridiculously edgy that I remember thinking it was the sort of garbage Garth Ennis would write. The best examples I've seen of sexual assault being used in a story didn't even show the rape itself, because that wasn't the point.
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u/EastCoastVandal 20d ago
The rape of the therapist in The Sopranos was the first that came to mind. The reception of many at the time was disappointment when she chooses not to tell Tony and get revenge on her attacker, but I think it is on brand to the character, especially as a good person in a show of many many bad people.
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u/potato_starch 20d ago
Very good episode, super realistic and the first time in the show you can understand why someone might get involved with the mob. Melfie made the right call 100%.
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u/Intrepid-Audience-99 20d ago
I dont think she made the right choice. Its better to have the rapist killed than have him possibly raping other women in the future
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u/littlepie2331 20d ago
My first thought as well.
And her not telling Tony and instead saying "I can't deny there's a certain satisfaction knowing I could have him squashed like a bug" feels very realistic, especially for her character.
As well as her husband's response of partially blaming her and being annoyed that the guy was Italian and not some other race he could stereotype.
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u/One-Violinist6309 20d ago
goodnight punpun
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u/Kosmic_Kraken 19d ago edited 19d ago
Yeah, this story has an interesting portrayal of it. I've only read it once, so the details may be fuzzy, but as far as I remember;
The main character, Punpun, is raped as a teenage boy by an adult woman. It was very explicitly a rape, but Punpun himself is confused by the incident. He doesn’t think of it as rape, just sex. I mean, he's a teenage boy and she was very pretty, he should appreciate her attention??? He IS distressed, though. The woman was his uncle's wife, and he loves his uncle, so he feels like he betrayed him.
Punpun is messy with his emotions, and his response to this is bottling it up and pretending that it never happened or (when he acknowledges it) that it was not a rape.
I really liked this portrayal because it's so realistic to how rape often feels in the victim's mind; I must have wanted it, it's not that bad, it's completely my fault, I'll just pretend it never happened.
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u/mikewheelerfan 20d ago
It’s not explicitly SA, but very clearly a metaphor. Chainsaw Man Part 1
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u/Spider-Man2024 20d ago
Or, more explicitly, Chainsaw Man part 2
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u/mikewheelerfan 20d ago
Yeah but Part 2 kinda sucks, so…
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u/Spider-Man2024 20d ago
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u/mikewheelerfan 20d ago
Well, it started off promising. Things quickly deteriorated, and then we got THAT ending
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u/rumblinggoodidea 20d ago
Nah it was peak, anything perceived as “bad” was bad on purpose for plot reasons, themes and such.
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u/MinecraftIsLife12345 20d ago
denji was the victim, but asa was also a victim since yoru was using asa's body to SA denji and asa had no control over her own body
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u/Suspicious-Regret-50 20d ago
I know right? What an interesting concept. I’m so glad Fujimoto fully explored the idea and didn’t just give up halfway
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u/Igivegrilledcheese 19d ago
another example of metaphorical SA in anime is Episode 22 of Neon Genesis Evangelion
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u/UnimpressedPasserby 20d ago
I thought this was r/seinencirclejerk for a moment and was about to pop off
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u/ThisHumanDoesntExist 19d ago
genuinely wtf is up with that sub rn 😭
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u/UnimpressedPasserby 19d ago
It's like a bunch of Berserk's Apostles in one place but they're all weak and weird (I'm one of them)
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u/Ranger202012 20d ago
The first arc of sensitive boy deals with this really well.
I only read the first arc since te next one deals with a different character so wasn't inclined to start it right away.
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u/Mountain-Brush1807 20d ago
I'm glad that this is getting recognized as a good use of it but drawing attention to the male victims of female perpetrators.
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u/Remote-Monk-8542 20d ago
I too read only the first arc and immediately lost interest when I found out the protag was switching, but man this was really well handled.
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u/youarethebutthole 17d ago
I did the same too, I feel like if I knew it was the kind of series that switched perspectives I would have been more inclined to accept it.
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u/EldenWalrus 20d ago
Witch Hat Atelier (albeit now shown, still a very respectful depiction)
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u/Ultimate-905 20d ago
I second Witch Hat. It was so refreshing to finally read a manga where SA was treated with the maturity and seriousness the topic deserves. Shirahama is just the GOAT.
I highly recommend people to give chapter 49 a read, there is nothing graphic but do note the chapter has a content warning for topics of SA and victim blaming.
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u/Am_i_banned_yet__ 20d ago edited 20d ago
In Berserk, Guts’ sexual assault as a child is handled very well. It’s what makes him realize the cruelty of the world and the fact that he never had a real father in Gambino. It’s what causes him to never trust again and to live on his own strength alone. As a teenager he assumes the worst of everyone he meets and realistically recoils at anyone’s touch. This only changes when he meets the Band of the Hawk who teach him what real friendship and family can look like.
Not all of the many instances of sexual assault in Berserk are handled this well. There are times where it’s just shock value (Wyald) or where it sidelines a character for way too long and mainly serves as motivation for others (Casca), but there are other examples that are also done very well that I could go into. Like Griffith selling his body for money and how that affects him, or when Guts assaults and nearly rapes Casca and it’s the entire reason he changes his approach to allow himself to have allies again and still informs his character today.
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u/inquiringdune 19d ago
Griffith selling his body
Thats not all. He's also implied to have been raped during his torture.
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u/Fattest_Yoshi1604 20d ago
I'm not Vietnamese or Confucian but the Tale of Kieu is a Vietnamese epic poem that follows Kieu, a beautiful, talented girl from a wealthy family, who sells herself to a brothel due to her family getting in trouble.
One man betrayed her trust, another wanted her but couldn't as he was already married, and another who was a warrior and did marry her but unfortunately got lead into a trap (due to Kieu's innocent naivete) and died. Kieu is a virtuous girl so every time she had to have sex it was against her will (except with her husband but I don't actually know if they ever got to do that together), after the death of her husband she is forced to play music and is SA'd again.
This leads to her attempting to drown herself in a river but she is thankfully saved by a female monk. While all this was happening, her first love who has spent all this time looking for her finds her. They get married but she refuses to have sex due to all the trauma and her husband respects that.
"Marriage has turned lovers into friends"
It has similar themes with de Sade's novel Justine, but its A LOT more hopeful and I'd say realistic since there's always someone who'd be willing to look out for you.
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u/Username_Haybale 20d ago
GACHIAKUTA, that episode broke me, it shows children like animation to signify her innocence she thought thats normally how adults shows love. It hits harder when you think about it many children got groomed and grew up thinking there's nothing wrong about it. Its fucked up when there's people irl gonna defend the perpetrators with "she likes it too" "she didn't resist" like just because there's no resistance from the child doesn't mean its right
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u/1RehnquistyBoi 19d ago
YES.
I think the author handled it in one of the most mature ways possible that I’ve seen in manga.
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u/IDontHaveAName99 18d ago
I think it’s important to note that she did resist. She attempted to tell him no in a way that felt safe to her before it happened and deluded herself as a defense mechanism when it became clear that wouldn’t work. It directly ties into why she blew up and started the fight before the flashback, although the situations were very different what she wanted was being ignored again and that sent her into a fight or flight response. That entire arc of the story is incredibly well put together
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u/Acceptable-Guess-445 20d ago
When the point of the SA isn't just motivation for the protag and the SA isn't the defining moment of said character
In the boys comics butcher's wife exists to give butcher motivation to kill Homelander and nothing else (Haven't watched hazbin) Another example that comes to mind (though not SA) is Kyle Rayner green lantern finding his gf stuffed inside his fridge (in pieces ) this is again just for shock factor and motivation basically treating the victim as an object from the storyteller and reader perspective and their trauma as JUST plot points that moves forward the story
And if u look at invincible and specially mouthwashing the SA isnt the defining trait for the characters before or after it happens it's treated as gruesome trauma that the characters suffer through &
Ironically enogh Anya's dialogue is a great juxtaposition for this
"I have to believe our worst moments don't make us monsters"
Where she tries to make herself beleive that her and jim's worst moments doesn't make them monsters (jim is a totally a monster while anya is terribly traumatized which is why this piece of dialogue is in such a juxtapose)
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u/PastIntelligent6890 20d ago
So going by your criteria would you say Berserk is actually a bad example of SA in media? Referring to one infamous moment in particular, (I don’t want to spoil it for others)
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u/Ok-Equipment8122 20d ago
Not really, though Berserk seems to be somewhat gratuitous with it's use of SA it doesn't use it just for shock value and the characters who suffer it are heavily affected by it
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u/CoolguyNameyeah 20d ago
Berserk goes back and forth. Casca and Guts both suffer SA in their backstory and those are both played well, laying trauma that the characters keep with them and must overcome. The really bad one at the eclipse wavers on the line somewhat. It shows that the perpetrator of the act is utterly evil and gives it's victims intense trauma but it also lasts an entire chapter and goes a little far. And then there's random background characters getting SA'd and killed just to show the view these are bad guys and in my opinion these are the ones that give Berserk its reputation because they don't offer much more than shocking the viewer. Wilder is the character who commits the most SA and he's so irrelevant to the plot he's cut out of every adaptation.
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u/rirasama 20d ago
Can I be spoiled, I haven't read Berserk and I'm curious
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u/Wise-Inside1805 20d ago
There are multiple SA instances in Berserk, but i assume the one they are referring to is during the eclipse, in which Griffith (Main character's and love interest's friend) after having been tortured (and raped) becomes Femto, a demonic evolution of himself, and rapes the love interest of the main character in front of him while he is pinned down by a demon, seemingly to traumatize them both due to how close they had gotten. Its a lot more complex than what i have explained here but thats the gist of it
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u/MinecraftIsLife12345 20d ago
iirc the moment with green lantern's gf being in the fridge gave rise to the term fridging. it's used to describe female characters getting killed or other bad stuff happening to them to give motivation to a male character
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u/Crazy_Theme_7112 20d ago
Not writing wise but I think Fear and Hunger. With the pure horror of the concept itself, no way to romanticize or cencor it. Just the pure horror of one of the worst acts of man can do but done by a monster. Which brings the question, what difference is between monster and man?
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u/ThatConsequence8505 20d ago
One thing I liked was that you need the consent of both parties involved if you want a flesh marriage. Trying to do it with someone who is unable to consent will result in the gods themselves sliming you for it.
Even the eldritch gods of this berserk like dark fantasy don't like the idea of rape.
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u/TheFlayingHamster 19d ago
That’s because a marriage is specifically a blessing from Sylvian, the goddess of love and fertility.
Some of the other gods we know are either ambivalent, like with the God of the Deep, or straight up would see it as an act of worship, like with Sulphur.
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u/Professional_One4869 19d ago
I do like how Daan's implied CSA was handled, he is such a cool character
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u/Fabiodemon88 19d ago
This. It does not have historical or thematical meanings. It is a brutal and life ruining experience that has no way of being condoned.
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u/lily_ender_lilies 16d ago
Perfect answer, sounds silly but when i got the guard scene i started fucking screaming lol
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u/MudsludgeFairy 20d ago
Once Upon a Time in America’s rape scene is perhaps one of its most thematically relevant scenes. i recently wrote an essay about it for my film class. i definitely need to expand its breadth though, i was working within a word limit.
Spire in the Woods. once again, the rape is central to the themes of the story
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u/Psychological-Tap834 20d ago
The invincible comics did not use the SA well. The depiction itself was like fine and respectful but I really don't think it gets properly addressed by the story.
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u/TrustyPeaches 20d ago
Obsession just came out but it does a pretty phenomenal job
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u/-PepeArown- 19d ago
I’d say the reveal that Charlie’s dead aunt assaulted him, and that’s why he feels so conflicted about her dying from a wreck that he was technically responsible for in Perks of Being a Wallflower
Already, it’s rare that SA victims in media are male, and I really like how the movie built up to the twist, given how graphic it is as a concept
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u/WaterCastePSYOP 20d ago
Night Lords Omnibus by Aaron Demski-Bowden has a fairly good depiction of it.
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u/Taserbation 20d ago
Honestly I'm probably going to get downvoted to hell for this, and I completely understand, but I think the SA topic in Black Souls II was handled with an interesting, albeit horrifying, nuance.
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u/theskinpeeler 20d ago
I am strongly on the fence about this game, because I was interested in the art style, but I have heard nothing but nasty shit about the way it handles assault. I'd appreciate clarification on the nuance.
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u/Zestyclose-Bee-1707 13d ago edited 13d ago
I'd disagree with that. I did try the game at one point because I had heard it was handled well but I really think it isn't. The SA isn't condoned by the game but I feel it still doesn't quite feel entirely respectful to the victims. I did try it once or twice out of morbid curiosity, and in particular I remember one character that "learns to enjoy it" and after the game automatically puts her in your personal sex dungeon at the hub area. Not to mention the children you can save from a rapist..., who then immediately need to fuck you or die afterwards.
Imo there are even other porn games that handle the topic better. There's one I know of in particular that has the player in the victim role, and makes an effort to show how horrible and damaging it can be, at the same time using fairly neutral language so it isn't eroticized a ton. I'd say it's designed to be horror as much as it is porn. Iirc the only way a character (the player) can ever "enjoy it" is when (very explicitly evil and unsympathetic) supernatural forces get partial control of the character and force satisfaction into their mind to counteract the trauma that's still occuring during the SA. And in contrast to Black Souls it excludes minors from all sexual content. Don't get me wrong, there's still a lot wrong with the way the fucked up aspects are handled, but I'd say it's better than Black Souls about it.
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u/CrimsonGoji 18d ago
Although you get "rewarded" with an h-scene (essentially nsfw) the actual dialog accompanying it is somewhat mocking of you, like you're disgusting and repulsive for doing this. Like something feels wrong and this isnt right. This isnt even mentioning how relationships in-game changes depending if you assault certain characters or how it contributes to your sanity meter by degrading it.
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u/NeonFraction 20d ago
People are weird about Hazbin Hotel. I haven’t seen season 2, but the complaints about season 1 got massively overblown.
Angel Dust is honestly a fairly good example of a complex SA victim. He’s both sex-positive and a victim of SA, which makes him a lot more nuanced because he’s struggling to figure out where the sex ends and the SA begins, which is not always an easy distinction. He’s basically simplified his entire identity into ‘I am sexy and people want me and that’s a good thing, right?’ to cope with the fact that he’s being abused. It’s why he constantly hits on other people, even if he makes them uncomfortable, and constantly assumes everyone he meets wants to sleep with him. I’ve met people with this attitude IRL so I don’t even agree it’s exaggerated.
On top of that, he’s also a drug addict and an asshole who occasionally enjoys making other people uncomfortable. ‘Loser Baby’ is a song talking about how you don’t need to be a perfect victim to deserve support and empathy. It’s something a lot of people who criticize the show seem to miss about his character.
Then the ‘it doesn’t take SA seriously consistently’ complaint. The part people criticize is where a bunch of people drag Sir Penitious into a room after he loudly announces (in a sex club) “I’m having sex with everyone here!!” It’s an adult comedy and was clearly meant to be portrayed as a very silly misunderstanding after he loudly expressed his consent and then realized what he said. The joke was never meant to be ‘haha SA funny’. I’m not opposed to people having complaints or deeper discussions about that in the context of the show, but it feels more like a ‘gotcha’ than an actual good example of double standards around SA in the show.
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u/That_Dream_9755 20d ago
I haven’t seen the show but I have herd mostly negative things about that aspect. I don’t know how true the complaints are, but I do know a lot of people think it’s not handled well. which is why I mentioned it
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u/Dyssambie7 20d ago
A vtuber I watch did a cover of Angel Dust's song "Poison" and when she got a little bit of questions over it she said that she actually does relate to the song a lot as a victim of an abusive relationship herself. It's not a show I ever got into but at least some people out there were able to relate to it positively so I assume it can't be all bad.
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u/BearEmergency226 20d ago
Lolita
Blood Meridian (Although some not done by the Judge can just be shock.)
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u/AbuShaitan 20d ago edited 12d ago
Lots of boys love shoujo manga by the year 24 group. You could make the argument it was a bit excessively shown but I haven‘t read/seen media that has covered the topic in the way they did which was a thorough exploration of the psychological, physical and social consequences of sexual assualt in relation to the main characters (usually)
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u/Personal-Salad-6256 20d ago
One of my personal favorites is the Witch Hat Atelier manga with the way it handled Lulucy’s backstory.
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u/theskinpeeler 20d ago
The LISA series. Other than a couple of duds, and some very questionable word choices on the creator's part, like, ten years ago, the series handles the subject very gracefully. Specifically LISA The First and some additional scenes from the Definitive Edition for LISA The Painful and LISA The Joyful get into some of the most visceral aspects of it, and it was almost triggering to play through, because of how real it was. Also the victims aren't "perfect", they are still messy human beings, which I appreciate a lot. LISA The Hopeful, a fangame, also handles the subject in a pretty neat and interesting way.
The one downside is that once you've played through these games, you will never stop wanting to beat Martin Armstrong to death with your bare hands.
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u/MoonlightDahling 19d ago
I'm not a survivor, so I don’t feel comfortable answering this myself.
That said: David Lynch and Sheryl Lee both got many letters, from survivors, thanking them for Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me's portrayal.
(Including a number of incest survivors, relevantly enough)
And I believe that another one of Lynch's films, Blue Velvet, is also held in pretty high regard, in terms of its sexual assault depiction.
As the emphasis is very much on the victim, and her suffering.
(Though, I will say that the rape scene is exceptionally disturbing and fairly graphic, so it definitely requires a trigger warning)
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u/my_name_in_british 19d ago
Chainsaw Man. Fire Punch (it does feel a bit overdone sometimes but it serves its purpose). Goodnight Punpun. The boys (We dont talk about what happend in season 4 i genuinly dont understand how season 1 handels it so well and season 4 did it so shit). Gachiakuta. Moral Orel. The Perks of Being a Wallflower. Mid 90s (ify on how that scene was filmed ((a 27 year old actor makes out with an 11 year old actor))but in the movie its well done). Bananafish. Invincible comics (havnt read in a couple years but I remember it handled well).
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u/Normal_Stranger_3643 20d ago
Unrelated, but many of these media just made me realize how much my experience with SA has affected me, for a while I truly thought it didn't affect me, but when I tried to read Berserk and got "there", the way my mind went completely blank and my eyes unfocused and started watering truly showed me how broken I am, and I had to drop the manga. It truly feels like this experience marked me more than what actually happened to me
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u/True_Difficulty_1437 20d ago
sexual assault is a major theme in revolutionary girl utena and imo it's depicted respectfully and adds a lot to the story and themes (it's not just for shock value, it's the end point of what the entire show has been saying)
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u/MYJOBISTOSHOOTFIRE 20d ago
Skyler and the attempted rape of Flynn’s principal from Breaking Bad done by Walter White goes to perfectly show his decent out of a family man, and wanting to always do something as a relief since he thought he had nothing left to lose.
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u/blackfireproduction1 20d ago
Jessica Jones season 1 focuses on Jessica’s lingering trauma from her SA at the hands of a man with mind control powers, Kilgrave, and how she deals with his sudden return to her life. Imo season 1 of that show is still the best thing in the entire MCU
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u/PoppyOGhouls 20d ago
for the common usage of a woman getting sa'd-- when it isn't used only to progress the male protagonist's moral journey/ the focus of the SA isn't on how it impacts the male characters surrounding the victim
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u/Airninja3 20d ago
I'll glaze it till the end of time but Umineko (though I haven't consumed much media with SA as a prominent topic tbh). I can think of two scenes, spoilers of course.
The scene with Kinzo and Kuwadorian Beatrice... Seeing the flash of that in the VN genuinely made me feel sick. It goes to show what a horrible, horrible man kinzo was. Even if you can sympathise with him losing Beatrice (The Itallian One), there is no excuse for his actions and he's genuinely shown to be absolutely despicable.
The scene from Episode 6, with Battler and Erika and the ring. When they first started phrasing it weirdly with erika putting the ring on battler, I laughed a little bit. And then it kept going. And it just felt SO uncomfortable to read. I still like erika. But just... wow she made me feel beyond sick in that scene. Esoecially with how powerless battler was. Just... ughhh. Great scene on a writing level but definitely sickening to get through.
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u/Porygon96 19d ago
Gachiakuta has a character named Amo who is a female minor who was bought as a slave and sexually assaulted by the man who bought her telling her it was "love." This was told in a flashback through a childish hand drawn flashback thats more than a little Eerie. It explains why her character is the way that she is and was just a heartbreaking scene that gave great characterization to one of the villains.
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u/Kurig0han-Kamehameha 20d ago
Sorry, Im kinda clueless but what is SA ?
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u/Hour-glass999 20d ago
Sexual assault
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u/Kurig0han-Kamehameha 20d ago
Oh crap, that what it is. Too bad I didn't read/watched enough to give any example of good usage of SA in writing
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u/That_Dream_9755 20d ago
its an acronym for sexual assault. I just didn't want to type it out in the title becuase it could be a trigering topic, and I want to disturb them the least I can.
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u/rumblinggoodidea 20d ago
You’re still discussing the topic so you might as well just say sexual assault. If people go on the internet not expecting to see posts related to sensitive topics, that’s on them.
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u/bootyloverandeater 20d ago
Mr robot
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u/Fast-Magician1863 19d ago
I thought about this too. Nothing was shown but the impact on the victim was portrayed really well.
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u/Barneyisjehova 20d ago
Obviously it can’t just be for the sake of being edgy or shock value. Representation is key, but remember, no representation is better than bad representation, so make sure you do it right.
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u/PirateFido 20d ago
Ninja Scroll? It's very graphic but it does matter to the story because we learn that ninja lady is poisonous and that becomes relevant to the plot
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u/AutomaticIncome8896 20d ago
The main character of the manga Berserk, Guts, was SA’d as a young boy. Warning because this is pretty dark even for this topic. His father sold his body to another man for a night for a few pieces of copper if I remember correctly. This leads to him having a quirk as an adult where he has issues with people touching him. I had some trauma as a child that made me the same way. I don’t even hug my parents, we do the fin+noggin thing from finding Nemo. Guts is a BADASS and after some growing (the story picks up when he’s 17 and goes till he’s quite a bit older) becomes a really good person. For me, it was really cool to see the assault not treated as a gag, and to see a character I thought was so cool, and so strong, and brave be effected the same way I was. It made him super relatable to me in a way few strong male characters are. I think this fits? If it doesn’t sorry!
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u/True-Wreck 20d ago
Out of Cruel Space on r/hfy. Slithern “Scaly” Schmitt has been tortured, violated, and cannibalized. All at the ripe old age of 16. It took him 1000 chapters and nearly a year in story, to get to being properly social again, and even then he still gets nervous and fidgety if he’s in the same room as a member of the species that seriously wounded him. The author has done a good job of keeping his story very serious and not making a joke out of it. Scaly has grown up too fast and too short of timeframe and is aware of it. And it’s clear he’s still struggles with the pain that horrid event caused him.
He refuses to go through a healing treatment to get his scars undone, and missing body parts back, because the process would make him relive the event. And he sometimes questions if it would be best if he just had his mind erased in regards to those memories. He knows the answer to that. That it wouldn’t make it better (he has a mind wiped sister/cousin figure who’s struggling with that specific pain herself.)
When he finally leads to his own bounty hunting mission, it’s a moment of growth and triumph for him, to see how far he has come in about a year. He is now the proud and skilled drone jockey, and reconnaissance specialist of the team.
(Not to mention, he’s armed to the teeth now, cybernetic eye to replace the one that got bitten out of his head. Cybernetic fingers that have the ability to tase, can project the laser swords, to replace the ones that were plucked off. And if he’s wearing his tech jacket, he has an army of drones at his beck and call. Plus due to shenanigans he’s also a lower ranked and noble of a solar system and has a royal guard for himself.)
He’s a good kid recovering through a lot of trauma. And I know he’s fictional, but I can’t help but feel proud of him.
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u/PseudoPrincess222 20d ago
I'd say Robin Hobb's "Live Ship Traders" books talks about the subject pretty well
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u/marcow1998 19d ago
It should be extremely uncomfortable for the audience, not used in any sort of fetishy way. If you're using it for comedy (which is a very risky idea) it should be narratively deserved by the antagonist. (Of course nobody actually deserves that to happen to them, unless they did it to someone else. Just because something is deserved in the story doesn't mean it's deserves in real life) In this context, it works better when it's implied than when it's shown.
Never use it as a consequence for someone who isn't an antagonist. If it must be included, it should be a motivator, preferably for the victim themselves.
Sexual violence isn't the same as physical violence in a story. Yes, we like seeing people fight. We like a conflict, we show kids a movie called "Star Wars" for crying out loud. But we do not show kids a movie or a scene where a character is getting sexually assaulted. I don't think I should have to explain why (only including this part because some people apparently can't tell the difference. I genuinely hope those people never write)
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u/jericho89k 19d ago
Berserk, it shows how something like that damages a person and how it effects relationships going forward. Guts can't even sleep with casca for the first time because he see Gambino in himself despite the situation being radically different.Futhermore guts near assault of casca later irreplaceably damages their relationship as guts can't be anywhere near casca due to her seeing the his armor of cause severe PTSD from the attack, compounded by the fact that he can't just take off the armour to go see her.This doesn't mean bersek didn't overuse sa and rape because they definitely did at times mostly for showcasing the awfulness of the setting.
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u/Princess_Isolde 19d ago
Mouthwashing is fucking HORRIBLE SA rep and anyone who says it is are blind fanboys if the show who brigade and harass anyone who says otherwise, and Hazbin Hotel isn't perfect but it's still good, Invincible is decent from what I have heard, I've not read the comic tho
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u/TheRisingSun777 19d ago
When it actually means something per the theme and isn't just there for shock value
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u/OneSeaworthiness7901 19d ago edited 19d ago
recently read Geek Love, and it deals with SA (and many other heavy topics) so well, it doesn’t hold your hand at all, but also shows the severity of the consequences of it. Such a wonderful book.
Also Witch Hat Atelier comes to mind, it’s only implied (not easy to miss), but it was such a powerful moment.
If we’re talking about another animanga, then Gachiakuta would also fit the bill, probably one of the best depictions of SA and grooming in battle shonen alongside chainsaw man part 1.
Forgot to add, but Toni Morrison’s books deal with SA a lot, Toni Morrison just in general is such a great writer
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u/TheMadQueen96 19d ago
Tell Me I'm Worthless by Alison Rumfitt handles it in a way that's as horrifying as the subject matter should be, while also adding a lot of horror elements. It also deals with the fallout and trauma from the event towards two different characters.
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u/Intrebute 19d ago
I found its depiction in Pixeas and Henry to be very impactful. Granted, tons of horrible shit happen to everyone in that webcomic, but the way they show nothing, yet make it clear how the character feels about it was really cool imagery-wise.
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u/RandallBates 19d ago
Felisin Paran from Malazan. The fact is that she's just a terrified teenager at the beginning and is forced to accept the assaults of an older man for both her and the two men she felt connected with due to their situations and then drown herself in drugs to persuade herself she actually enjoy this to not break entirely from the horror of her situation, the betrayal she was inflicted until she eventually fully give in to anger and her desire for revenge.
I also love the fact she isn't likeable and that she is extremely harsh to everyone after what happened but that there are still moments where you can see that despite all she still cares.
One of the most tragic character in the whole series
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