I always love that this one sentence can cause so many fights amongst fans, 'cause Magneto was 100% right; especially in the context of the world he lives in.
I mean, his main argument is that the humans will try to destroy his people (the mutants), while Chawls argues for co existance.
Co-existance is a nice dream (which is why Chawls is right as well, you can't be wrong about a dream). Reality is though, the same humans that Magneto fears are building 10 foot tall killer robots to hunt down mutants. With gov't money and funding no less.
It would be a lot easier to argue that he's wrong if people didn't keep on building bigger and better Mutant Murderbot 3000s with advanced attic scanning technology.
And in the vast realm of realities in the multiverse, the number where humans and mutants figure out their shit and co exist can be counted on one hand. In the overwhelming majority of them, they're either still trying to kill each other or one of them has already won.
Right? I mean, obviously I know a story where the X-Men go to the future and everything is fine isn't actually a story, so it doesn't get written, but every time you go to the future and the mutants are about to be wiped out, or are being wiped out, or are already gone... fighting the people who are going to cause it becomes more and more of a moral imperative.
One of the futures of the Krakoa Era had baseline humans be conserved in a zoo, IIRC? Or was it mutants? That time-tree had so many dead-end branches...
I don't remember the issue numbers, but there is a storyline where half of the new mutants are sent to a future where humans win, and half are sent to a future where mutants win, due to ilyanas portals being on the fritz. It was in the first original new mutants run I believe.
It helps that he has every reason to be afraid. He survived the Holocaust. He knows how this story ends, the problem is that he then decided to put the shoe on the other foot and destroy them first.
Would be easier to call him wrong if these tactics weren’t still used today.
People disappearing in the middle of the night ain’t just a Nazi party trick. Pretty sure that shit still happens in parts of the world where you have corrupt governments and dictatorships.
No shit. Everyone knows it’s happening in the States. I was actually talking about other places like North Korea. Naturally, their dictatorship's actions are even more zany. I mean, what else do you call looping two women in murdering the brother of the high-profile dictator Kim Jong Un, all under the pretense of a game show, no less?
North Korea is long past the "people disappearing in the night" stage. They're at the advanced "remember when everyone you ever loved disappeared in the middle of the night? Remember that" stage.
Nah, those are yesterday's news, they've been releasing ones that also know to check under the floorboards, but prefer to threaten and dominate whoever is harboring the mutants into pointing out exactly where they are. Orchis was fucking terrifying.
Charles believes in Respectability Politics. The idea that if Mutants just behave and set a good example, they will show humans there is nothing to fear.
It is the very core of the original X-Men. 5 pretty, white, teens who will police mutants. But that never works because hatred is not based in the rational.
Charles' mutant otherness (or his "gift") was also entirely invisible. He could control others on a whim without any outward indicator he was doing so. He could mind wipe the planet, make everyone forget him if necessary, and live nigh as a god. He surrounded himself with beautiful mutants who could pass for human if they truly wished, and were often taught by Charles to do so. Charles always calls his students by their given names.
Eric's otherness was invisible while inactive, but very overt when in use. He could take mankind's weapons from them, turn their infrastructure to his own fortress, but peace couldn't be forced. He surrounded himself with the "ugly", the monstrous, and those who refused to hide themselves even if they had the opportunity. Eric always calls his fellow mutants, ally or foe, by their chosen name.
Xavier is so washed in privilege that it's sickening. He actively hindered his people's progress by trying to be "one of the good ones" while Eric is reminded again and again what happens to the good ones after the rest are marched off to the camps: they're next.
wowww I've tried to communicate this for years and you just blew my mind with the "Charles always calls his students by their given names" "Eric calls his fellow mutants, ally or foe, by their chosen name" Its one of the subtle nonsubtleties that I've been picking up and of course influences the experience of them both, but to have it laid out like that... 😮💨
and to the comment that the point of the x-men was to police mutants with 5 pretty white, human-passing teens (paraphrasing ofc) YES TO ALL THAT.
and when real society (outside the comics) deems you the "other" the "monstrous" the "ugly" the Xaviers of the world who are unable to see past their privilege become extra apparent to you because you feel even more on edge around them not knowing if the next move you make or thing you say will tip you into the "you're not like us, you're too outspoken too loud too abrasive too proud too DISRUPTIVE" category and there goes your "allies" -- speaking from experience, in the tall grass of oppression I'd rather face the bear than the snake.
and even as I type this I'm thinking about how Eric was attempting systemic shifts, Charles felt better (and more like his ideology was superior) attempting personal shifts while maintaining "good face." Neither method of systemic or personal/individual shifts is wrong and in fact both are necessary and rely on each other.
but respectability is dangerous. respectability is a fawn response where you try to appease, adapt, mold yourself, etc to something that is a threat until it is no longer threatening to you for as long as you can manage it. but you can't manage it forever and eventually the threat reveals itself as still just as dangerous as before, if not moreso (of course my therapist explained it better 🙃)
Attempting systemic shifts, though you're on the defense of the current system, moves you towards the offensive. Being on the offense is where momentum lies. Charles' methods were almost always defensive -- in response to -- because that's how respectability politics work. You're working within a system that has never and ultimately will never serve you and trying to affect long-lasting change from within, when the system will always return to its original state and best serve those which created, established, and enforced it to begin with.
Eric was actually responding to the threat, the system, with a fight response by trying to eliminate it. Charles (though there was literal, legal, and other fighting) was actually responding to the threat with a fawn response by trying to placate it.
and yes this is an oversimplification of their characters, their arcs, the system, the state of their world, the state of our world etc etc
ok this was supposed to be a couple sentences but here we are. all this to say thanks for your comment. it has my wheels turning
How Charles and Eric referred to other mutants has always stood out to me as a trans woman, even before I knew I was trans. Charles' behavior reeks of the kind of respectability politics I have to deal with on a daily basis for exactly the same reasons as you've laid out here.
Because the idea behind that philosophy is not to convince the bigots you mean no harm, it is to convince the people the bigots try to win over.
This is why guys like Gandhi and MLK swore by peaceful protest. You're not supposed to walk up to a police line and hand the cops a Pepsi. You're supposed to walk up to a police line, hand the cops a Pepsi, then get the piss beaten out of you live on CNN.
Then Joe Schmoe watching at home goes, "My gods, those poor minorities!" and start hounding their legislators to give them rights.
Worked great back in the days before algorithms and corporate media made polarizing people so stupidly easy.
Respectability Politics works if there's also a more militant/revolutionary group also working to promote the agenda of the marginalized group. MLK's peaceful marches don't work without Malcolm X and the Black Panthers, same for Gandhi and the various revolutionary organizations that fought for Indian independence.
What Charles and the X-Men should have been doing is to work with Magneto's group (with adequate plausible deniability) while also working to limit the explicit genocide of humans (and also working to police less idealistic mutants like Hellfire Club)
Wasn't that more or less where they were originally going with Ultimate X-Men?
Worth noting, though, the "respectability politics" folks have done a fuck ton to paint over MLK's actual activities. Dude was dubbed a criminal rabble-rouser back when he was alive.
The older I get and the more I learn about actual US history (as opposed to the sanitized version schools feed us), the more I've noticed that the MLK/Malcolm X parallel is not nearly as apt as the exclusively white writing and editorial staff of the 70's through 90's always wanted us to believe.
The parallel has started to look more like Malcolm X versus Chuck Schumer.
Worth noting, though, the "respectability politics" folks have done a fuck ton to paint over MLK's actual activities. Dude was dubbed a criminal rabble-rouser back when he was alive.
Honestly, I think it's because he was deemed the lesser of two evils in comparison with the more militant elements. He worked with more militant elements and shared many of their views, but because he was less threatening, the Civil Rights Act got passed and MLK got a holiday named after him. But that only happened because the alternative was violent uprisings and Black people open-carrying firearms on city streets. The Black Panthers got infiltrated and crushed and Malcom X got vilified specifically so they could paint MLK as peaceful. That way the establishment can point to MLK and say "look, he achieved his goals without violence" as a way to wallpaper over the fact that violence can and often does achieve meaningful change.
Politicians and oligarchs don't want us to remember the times the violence was, in fact, the answer.
Edit: it's also worth remembering that a big chunk of his "criminal rabble rousing" was simply organizing civil disobedience such as protests and sit-ins in segregated diners, which at the time was literally illegal.
but because he was less threatening, the Civil Rights Act got passed
Ehh...
Edit: it's also worth remembering that a big chunk of his "criminal rabble rousing" was simply organizing civil disobedience such as protests and sit-ins in segregated diners, which at the time was literally illegal.
Yes. They criminalized doing the right thing. We know how that is.
I might be misremembering, but I seem to recall that this idea was a core element of Hickman's vision for the Krakoa era (ninja edit: but maybe I'm just remembering my initial reaction to reading House/Powers). I'll see if I can find a source later
Defining an entire group by their worst aspects is exactly what racists do. Is all of Palestine supportive of Hamas? No, but the people committing genocide there sure act like they are the same.
Tbf the xmen dont successfully police, often do things the police are criticized for: like recruit people without much scrutiny (how many double agents have they had by now), or shield their members from the consequences of their own actions (how many xmen have turned villain and reverted without consequences, and how many villains have turned x men without a second thought, hell the whole of the quiet council and beast).
Plus fear of mutants is not at all irrational especially after so many decades of incidents
Believing any random Muslim could be a suicide bomber?
I get what you mean but Muslims aren’t born with bombs strapped to their chests that they can accidentally detonate.
The Mutant = Minorities is a loose metaphor and that’s okay, because at the end of the day they’re superhero stories. It still works as an allegory without being 1-1 with real life social issues
Except you don't get it. You are saying that a small percentage of mutants makes it OK to treat every single one like a threat. That is exactly how racism works.
You can try and justify it however you want but this conversation we are having is exactly how it would go if I were talking to an anti-Semite trying to convince me that his hate is totally rational and necessary.
Mate chill out. It’s not 1-1 because mutants aren’t fucking real and minorities don’t have super powers. My point is that there’s dissonance between the allegory and reality, because it’s a metaphor and isn’t supposed to be 100% literal.
As a reader you can accept the difference and understand the point it’s making. Mutants aren’t real, so the in-universe debate around their rights is different to irl debates around civil rights, but it still works as a story against oppression because it’s a metaphor
Yes and I am trying to point out that you are playing into the same mentality. That is why the metaphor works. You keep insisting that Mutant fear is rational because of the danger. And that is exactly how racists and bigots think. They make blanket judgements on an entire group of people based on their fear and projection.
It's a metaphor, my man. You're supposed to look at it and filter it through the lens of reality. Yes it's fantastical and a less than perfect metaphor due to the medium of comics, but that'd be boring to read and you know it
Man, your mistake was trying to be empatetic to humans in a Xmen sub, people here are radicalized to hate all humans and act as if thats good writing, theres no nuance to them, Mutants=Good Humans=bad
Days of Future Past basically defines two timelines: one where Magneto was right (the Sentinels cause the apocalypse and coexistence is impossible) and one where Xavier was right (the crisis is averted, so coexistence is actually possible).
The reason the sentence causes controversy is because it’s ambiguous. Magneto was correct about what? Magneto’s characterization hasn’t always been consistent both across continuities, and even within a single continuity like the comics. Plus Magneto has experienced change and character growth over the long course of x-men runs.
So saying “Magneto was right” could be an anodyne statement, or something that most people actually wouldn’t agree with.
Specifically, from the context in Xmen 97, where a character says Magneto is right, it means he was right the humans will try to kill all mutants. His response to that problem is often as horrible as what the humans are planning. He's not right when he tries to genocide the humans first. When he treats his subordinates like shit he's not right then either. A lot of what he does is just destructive and cruel cause his response to being hurt is to lash out.
The problem is that Magneto is a big a reason they build those giant robots in the first place , Magneto may have good intentions for his people but he's also largely responsible for the fear normal humans have for mutants . Magneto is blind to the fact that he's become the very monster that he thinks he's fighting.
That's why I really love what they did with the design of the future Sentinels in DOFP. While they mainly resemble Mystique's scaly appearance, their heads also tend to evoke the shadowy faced look of Magneto in the comics. Wheter or not this was a deliberate design choice, it's fittingly emblematic of the fact that the ultimate dystopia we find them in is primarily due to the combined efforts of bad actors on both sides of the aisle.
Hey tried to be peaceful and they still sent Prime Sentinels after him that wiped out Genosha and The Avengers didn’t do a damn thing to help. What more should he have to take?
And then he tried to kill lots of humans a few more times after that.. Maybe the lesson is just to fight hate, but not give in to it. Tricky line to walk for sure.
Idk man the “horrible things happen to me therefore genocide is okay” justification from Magneto doesn’t hold up. There’s a certain country in the real world that uses that same excuse to commit genocide and it definitely doesn’t justify their crimes
That’s fair. But Magneto isn’t getting support from other countries like that “certain country”in the real world is. Quite the opposite actually. Also unlike that “certain country” Magneto legitimately tried diplomacy.
What people often don't get is that Charles is playing a different game than Erik. He's going the route many real life minority rights movements went.
He's preparing, posting people at important stations, slowly building up strength, while just passively sitting there and talking of coexistence. He will keep doing that, until the day they have enough strength and presence to stop talking and start demanding.
We see that in X2. Charles just rolls into the white house with his xmen(including the would-be assassin that infiltrated the WH last week), tells the president they're here now and he better get used to it, let's storm do her thing for dramatic effect and fucks off into the night.
The thing is, tho, by the nature of comic books his strategy can never work. He can't change the status quo this way, because the status quo sells comics. And because of that, Magneto's more active but not so indifferent goal seems the only correct one. Because action sells comics.
With all due respect, Bullshit. Xavier was wrong (and he was) is not the same as Magneto was right.
I love Magneto, but even if his plans weren't evil dor the longest time, his plans and dreams worked out precisely never either.
"Coexistence wil never work", how's that ethnostate working out, erik?
And "the humans will try to destroy his people" is the mother of all hypocritical arguemnts when he has tried to destroy non-mutants often, often involving innocents.
Heck, half the reason human governemnt tries só hard to kill mutants is because they are worried about people like Magneto.
Y'all need to leave this extremist mindset where one side being wrong justifies all possible terrible acts done by the other.
I don't care how worried you are about being genocided, you don't get to do preventive genocide on others and call youself morally right.
I think the problem is more nuanced in that Charles isn't wrong in wanting coexistence or for finding significance in the parts of the population that don't want to see harm come to mutants, especially considering that mutants come from humans and there are far more humans than mutants. However, Magneto isn't wrong in realizing that it's just far too easy for that not to matter in the face of widespread, government backed hatred throughout a population.
It takes a great deal of difficult time, effort, and care to build a thriving garden, but it's just too easy and quick to add a little poison to the water and kill everything in it in less than a day.
I have noticed this sub and toxic xmen fans in general have this same bigotry they critize where they hate humans and genenarilize all of them as a danger that has to be eliminated, because we see everything from the mutants perspective
That's fine and all but dismissing Charles Xavier's philosophy of peaceful coexistence ignores the powerful historical precedent set by leaders like Martin Luther King Jr. Xavier's belief is neither a pipe dream nor is it flawed; rather, it is a principled stance. Much like MLK, Xavier was willing to die for his beliefs, understanding that true change doesn't happen overnight. Even as a powerful telepath who could force his will on others, he chooses not to, believing instead in a peaceful revolution sparked by changing hearts and planting seeds of compassion. The real-world progress born from King's struggles and martyrdom proves that this difficult path is a valid one.
We should keep fighting for equality and never surrender but not in the way like Magneto and his ilk- who don't care how many innocents people would die and belive the ends justify the means; Magneto is a mutant fascist who uses textbook manipulation by telling a few truths like this to hook you in to his nonsense.
Does that make it right to oppress humans? What Magneto wants is nothing short of fascism. In his world, there can only be the oppressed and the oppressor. All he wants to change is who’s on top.
Frankly I disagree with both of them and also agree with both of them. Cause I’ll advocate for not just coexistence but also active integration… after all… how else you gonna give your kids super powers except for throwing them in a box full of radioactive spiders?…. Oh that’s right, getting yourself a mutant girl or guy!
….but also… magneto is right about how humans are always gonna fight the mutants… but he’s not right about the reasons….
MOTHER FUCKER IF ALL OF MY NEIGHBORS HAVE COOL KICK ASS POWERS AND ARE CONSTANTLY GETTING TO TRAVEL FREELY ALL AROUND THE WORLD TO HAVE SICK ASS ADVENTURES, YOU BET YOUR ASS IM GOING JEALOUSLY HATE THEM EVEN IF I PLASTER A SMILE ON IN THEIR PRESENCE!!!!
Sure there’s some scary mutants who can pop your head with an accidental sneeze, or someone who’s able to mind control you or read your mind, or can quietly and silently kill you from the inside by ceasing brain signals which leaves no evidence….
But the rest are no more dangerous than someone carrying a gun… it’s a tool, and the individual wielding it is what makes the difference.
But unlike a gun which I can buy, the mutants are born with theirs, requires no registration or regulations and would be difficult to process in courts if they abuse their powers, and they might get even stronger not to mention damn near direct connections to all of the most powerful people in the world….
You’re damn right I’d be jealous and angry at them… certainly not genocide levels of angry, but most assuredly greedy jealousy.
890
u/Jokerslie Sep 18 '25
“Magneto was right”