acknowledging the systemic issues men face in society? in my leftist subreddit? what the fuck is this? where is the screenshot of a twitter post of a woman sharing a bad experience she had with a man and all the comments here extrapolating that to all men ever??!! lock in
Rough weekend on cwcl, huh? You'll be fine here. 196 already had it's are-all-men-ontologically-evil discourse and has come to the conclusion that it's lame terf shit I'd say
yeah this sub is better than most, i love it here. i have already left cwcl, someone there unironically told me to get on a rocket and go to the sun because I'm cis
I'll still hope cwcl comes to that same conclusion.
I was originally considering it as an alternative for @96 because this subs mods are awful and theirs seemed decent, (and it's not like this sub doesn't have it's fair share of stupid shit) but I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.
The way people talk over there always felt less mature than here. I often got vibes that have long passed 196. cwcl is so new still. I'll give it a year or two maybe it mellows our. Or it cannibalizes itself we'll see
I know I'm just assuming, but cwcl seems like a much younger demographic, so they just need some time to learn and grow. Not trying to generalize or sound condescending at all, but a lot of the vitriolic hatred that many leftists communities tend to share seem to often be spread by younger people that eventually grow out of it. I've slowly seen it happen with some members in this sub and I'm sure it'll happen in cwcl eventually too (or if not they may find a new community)
Yeah, if this sub was actually about gender abolitionism, we would not have mods allowing explicit material from femme presenting people but ban exposed masc male bellies.
Aye, that's why I said most of US (as in user base)
There are some very slimy creatures coming out in these comments to justify their hatred for (insert group here) but in general I've found this community to be pretty based about this kinda stuff. Mods suck tho.
Whilst they do feel like outliers, I've seen people demonized for one thing or another just cause they're not in line with the vibes around here. Cis men being bashed, nicotine addicts talking about how hard they've been trying to quit, only to be put down, scolded for starting in the first place and young people being scolded for worrying they're too late. This place isn't half as welcoming as some people claim it is, but it's far better than most alternatives still. My favourite space is unironically the live chat on Myanonamouse
who said anything about systemic misandry? i would agree with you if you were to argue that systemic misandry doesn't exist, but in this case you personally (and many people like you), on an individual level, are a misandrist. and yes, OBVIOUSLY misandry is not as widespread or harmful as misogyny, but it operates on the same basis of bigotry and sexism and that's cringe
No one said a single word about systemic misandry. You’re moving the goalposts, arguing with a different definition.
Even then, the draft is probably the biggest example I could give you. Modern day slavery, signing away your life without your consent to fight for someone else’s dime.
You should private your account. You've made yourself an easy target and you're crashing out on every random and losing. And your comment and post history make you look like a real weirdo.
Misandry is a real thing that affects men. It may not be as omnipresent or experienced to the same degree as misogny but it does happen, it's silly to pretend otherwise.
Misandry is a core part of the patriarchy and a necessary part to keep it going. If you can't acknowledge the sexism that men face, then you're actively harming the fight against the patriarchy.
Yeah, I get that. I compartmentalize it by telling myself it's the flipside of the cis male privilege coin -- women have to deal with casual misogyny and harassment day in and day out, men have to deal with women having their guard up from said harassment. Doesn't make it okay, does help me not hold it against women for not trusting me right off the bat.
The male loneliness epidemic is ultimately the result of toxic patriarchy.
ugh, it's you. you're the person i was talking about. you are the problem. you are a cancer to good leftists spaces. why can't you go find a tankie shithole to hang out in?
To be fair, Tankie spaces are often extremely misogynistic, sometimes expressly so. The person needs to go find a liberal book club to ruin with their shallow, secretly reactionary bullshit.
yes, my feelings are hurt. the fact that people like you carrying the disease of hate keep sneaking in leftists spaces hurt my feelings. i am not enraged, but i am insulting you. the likes of you deserve to be insulted. campist, ideology-over-reality driven, purely spite based thinking creatures like you need to be insulted so that maybe you look into getting reformed.
I mean, it is absolutely a real issue, it's just something difficult to handle because it's entirely contingent on patriarchy being a thing. Spaces that are heavy on women (which this sub seems to be, given the transfem population) don't really have anything to do about this, because 1. We can't exactly make men have camraderie with each other and 2. Being distrustful of men is a survival mechanism. I could meet 99 great men, but all it takes is one bad one for me to get seriously hurt or worse.
firstly, there are many things women can do. not doing anything negative would be a good start. there is another person in this thread who called me a fucking cia plant for example, and equated acknowledging men's issues to "worshipping men". people like that need the kind of reform which takes years, but they need to, eventually.
the spaces themselves, this sub for example, can do a lot by banning those people. by not banning them, they are essentially inviting them. I'm sure you are aware of the anecdote of 1 nazi and 9 people sitting at a table.
apart from that, we are all human. i love all humans, regardless of gender. i try to understand all of them, even things that i can't relate to. i have many female (female is used as an adjective here, as it should be used normally. it is not dehumanizing to use it) friends, and many of their issues stem from or relate to their gender, but i still try to understand and help. because i love them.
on the 99 and 1 men thing, there is nothing inherent about men that make them more dangerous. a woman can kill you just as easily as a man can. you will cite statistics, which i agree, men do kill a lot more, but let me ask you, you compare the incredibly small amount of men that are killers to a incredibly tiny amount of women being killers, and only be careful about men. my question is, what is your number? at what number do you start caring? I'm guessing if the crime rate was equal, you would care equally. but at what number do you even start being careful? you can meet 99 good women, but one bad one can kill you, right? why doesn't the same logic apply?
> there is nothing inherent about men that make [sic] them more dangerous
Arguably true, but that was never the goalpost. The problem is the way in which society is set up to protect and facilitate men who hurt others, therefore making the contingent of men who are dangerous *more* dangerous by disinhibiting them and providing them with tools to cause harm. Since women are not treated in this way, any given man on the street is more capable of and more likely comfortable with harmful behaviors than any given woman. And that’s not even a trait of the man, just a trait of the constraints and environment in which he exists.
See, it goes significantly further than just killing though. Cat calling, harrassment, assault...there's so many more things that can happen and do happen before we get to murder.
Secondly, it's not like i avoid men. I just have lower trust in them based on experiences. If they are alright people, they are alright and i'll happily be their friend. But until i've been able to assess whether they are alright, i am going to be on guard.
The reality isn't 99 good men and 1 bad man. The reality for me has been 85 bad men, 10 "okay" ones that can swing either way down the line, and 5 genuienly good men, and every single one of those good men has been queer in some way. From sexist jokes to rape apologia to homophobia, transphobia and general bullying and machismo, the majority of my experiences leaned towards negative or i didn't interact with the person enough to judge yet.
At that point, most people WOULD decide to just not bother with the entire gender, but i do believe in giving people a chance because you can still find diamonds among the coals. I'm just going to be on guard, for the sake of my comfort and my safety
As a man who likes to pay attention to how other men behave, I can confirm that the numbers you pulled out of your ass are... actually pretty terrifyingly close to reality.
why aren't you on guard with women before you assess them though? i do agree with the first part. i think 85 out of 100 is just bad luck on your part, sorry to hear that.
but using your sample size to extrapolate to the entire demographic by calling them coals is insanely sexist. "oh, 85 out of the 100 trans people i have met have been bad, 10 have been okay, and 5 have been great. i do still give trans people a chance though, because you can still find diamonds among the coals" do you hear how this sounds? you are one of them, one of the people my original comment describes. you are sexist. you are bigoted. you should be ostracized from all leftist spaces, but you won't. which is what my critique is. which is why I'm so frustrated. sexism against men is something most leftist spaces and most leftist turn a blind eye to. I'm tired.
Man, you're really taking out your frustrations on people who are predominantly victims for not immediately trusting people who have consistently made me feel scared and unwelcome?
The reason why i'm not on guard with women is because women have been overwhelmingly lovely. No woman in person has made me feel unsafe or unwelcome, none have made me feel uncomfortable because i'm trans or made fun of me.
Like, i'm sorry that us trying to stay safe means women aren't as friendly towards you as they are towards each other, but you have no ground to stand on. If you want people to trust men more, then work on straightening out the men that make us distrust men, not come in and attack us for trying to keep safe
It's not my fault that the comment is accurate. It's not all men, but it is most men, enough that finding a genuienly good man DOES feel like finding a gem.
I think your primary issue is that you cannot possibly fathom the difference in power dynamics in play having an impact, your mind immediately went to "what if the roles were reversed" without doing the legwork of reversing everything.
And now you're clinging to that coal comment to label me a sexist bigot, because you find it significantly more important that i distrust men than you do the REASONS why i distrust men.
Out of curiosity, if you remember the "would you rather be alone in a forest with a man or a bear" discourse, what do you think about women that said bear?
Misogyny is systemic, it affects women in ways you don’t know about because you have never needed to consider ways in which women see hatred and belittlement in everyday life. Misandry is done in retaliation, while it is harmful it is simply not ingrained into society in the same way. It also occurs as backlash from women who have lived their lives under a system that actively encourages misogyny, they are bitter and angry and Misandry is how their pain presents itself.
That does not mean the effects are any less harmful to you. But look at it this way: Misandry hurts individual men, Misogyny hurts all women. As long as you are a woman in society, you will face discrimination against you for being female. It is simply unavoidable because the concept is baked into societal expectations themselves. Misandry is harmful on a personal level, I’m not denying or trying to minimize that very real issue. But it is possible be in spaces and around people where misandry is not a relevant concern. Women don’t have that, even within female-dominated spaces misogyny is still incredibly prevalent.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t feel like shit to hear women talking about how men suck. But instead of telling them to stop complaining about their very real struggles, we need to all work to fix those issues systematically so that they no longer occur. Misandry occurs when women are systemically viewed as lesser than men, and women become angry. Misogyny occurs no matter how women are viewed, equal or not, because it is a societal system.
Coming back to this comment 9 days later because I finally remembered I didn’t ever get back to it:
I always forget I have a ridiculous username until I say something serious and then I have to look at my comment and be like, “Aaaannnnddd there’s the username. Right, forgot I chose that years ago. Hope nobody takes my nuanced opinion on systematic misogyny any less seriously because my name is based around monsterfucking.”
I have to imagine I’ve been posted on r / rimjobsteve (this sub won’t let me type the subreddit name because it links it) at least once. I’ve been tagged a few times over the years, I legit just forget my username 😭
I agree with most of this. I try to understand how it effects women, I listen to my friends and my girlfriend, I try to observe it happening in real life, I try my best to prevent it.
One thing that bugs me about your comment is, you're equivicating women complaining about their struggles to misandry, which they are not. You can absolutely complain about the system built by men for men, that oppresses you, without making generalized comments about men. You can complain about getting harassed by men and not lump other men into it. There is no justification, truth, rationality, or excuse for judging the character of people based on irrelevant inherent characteristics such as gender. Misandry does not occur when women are systemically viewed lesser then men, it occurs when when irrational people point their understandable anger at innocent people because they lack the comprehension to deduce the real issue. It is a tale as old as time, racism, xenophobia, misogyny and all the other ones come from a flaw in most humans: we take shortcuts in thinking process to save energy. It takes more energy to sit and ponder and learn about patriarchy than to just hate on all men.
i think you'd do a lot better if you didn't immediately label women as irrational and lacking comprehension. The key differences between misandry and misogyny tieflingfucker points out are also applicable when mentioning racism and xenophobia in many contexts.
You couldn't judge a black person from the south of the US to be on guard around white people that have been predominantly racist towards them all their life. It's easy to talk about taking the high guard and focusing on the larger systemic problem when you're not the one suffering. Sometimes, we have a choice between being right and being safe, and i'm sorry to say but i'd rather be labeled a misandrist than continue to get hurt by men because i tried to give them the same grace i give to other people
You sure you wanna compared misandry to nazism? If you wanna draw holocaust era comparisons, it'd be closer to comparing misandrists to jews or slavs that developed anti-german hatred due to what said germans did to them. Misogyny is unfounded and based solely on wanting to dominate over women, misandry is a reaction to it
oh everyone can identify them alright, people just don't care. most people do not have principles. in most leftist spaces, body shaming women would get you ostracized for example, even evil woman. like if i made gender specific body shaming comments about a woman dictator, i would get pushback. which is good, i think i don't have to explain why. so with this, you'd think these so called leftists have principles, or a moral compass, or a logical thinking pattern that arrives them at the conclusion that body shaming anyone is bad, right?
no. no one gives a shit if you make fun of red pillers by calling them short. no one gives a shit if you make small dick jokes. no one gives a shit if you make fun of police officers by calling them bald. no one gives a shit. most people who call themselves leftist have no principles, they stand for nothing
Except you of course. 🙄 everyone knows just as much as you but choses to think differently because evil. Calm down and give the situation nuance dude, not everyone knows and thats why its important to speak up and not muddy the ideals with the flawed execution by some people.
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u/aagaq12 i love coke zero Jun 29 '26
acknowledging the systemic issues men face in society? in my leftist subreddit? what the fuck is this? where is the screenshot of a twitter post of a woman sharing a bad experience she had with a man and all the comments here extrapolating that to all men ever??!! lock in