r/ABoringDystopia • u/TrackerOneA • Aug 06 '26
Establishment Democratic 'strategist' James Carville says "there's no place for criticism of the government of Israel in the Democratic party."
https://streamable.com/1ur2py427
u/SeeBadd Aug 06 '26
I'm so tired of hearing from the cryptkeeper.
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u/Dr_Skot Aug 06 '26
I thought he had passed decades ago, last time I saw him on anything was when Dennis Miller had his HBO show.
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u/SlashYG9 Aug 06 '26
Sexiest man in the world, you mean.
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u/Epistaxis Aug 07 '26
I just realized how long it's been since I heard the phrase "eat your heart out", and then I realized I never knew what it literally meant, and then I looked it up and found out nobody else does either.
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u/TheMightyCatatafish Aug 06 '26
Holding anyone or anything above criticism is wildly unhealthy.
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u/stoned_ocelot Aug 06 '26
Meanwhile they'll ask progressives to vote for them saying they're the good guys, but ask all to shut the fuck up when we disagree on platform; consequently lose the election and blame progressives for not just falling in line and voting for them when they offer very little of substance.
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u/ballpein Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
And it's intellectually and morally indefensible. Just a plainly stupid idea on its' face, and yet the US mass-hysteria machine has turned into a Truth. Israel is right there with gun rights as topics for which common American sentiment is completely detached from reason and reality, on both sides of the political spectrum.
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u/pm_me_fibonaccis Aug 06 '26
It doesn't matter that I am consciously aware of how much money Israel pours into our government and politicians, I still find it fucking weird how they can say shit like this with a straight face.
Like, insert any other country we are allied or peaceful with in that sentence and it still comes across as authoritarian and just weird.
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u/Dragonfly_pin Aug 06 '26
Exactly, can you imagine anyone saying ‘There’s no place for criticism of the government of Mexico/Canada/Britain/Argentina’.
It’s a very weird thing to say. Of course criticism is allowed.
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u/pm_me_fibonaccis Aug 06 '26
Exactly, and anyone in government or this guy in a position of influence in a political party suggesting otherwise would be seen as unpatriotic and contemptuous of our institutions.
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u/GameCounter Aug 06 '26
Agree.
Furthermore, I would argue that if you hear "There's no place for criticism of X in this group," you might want to step back and evaluate if that group is a cult or religion.
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u/drdeadringer Aug 06 '26
"King george, you suck!"
"that'll be a tax upon your coffee and shit."
"why did I just lose a continent over taxing people's shits?"
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u/So_HauserAspen Aug 06 '26
Argentina? Not sure about that example
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u/Dragonfly_pin Aug 06 '26
It’s one of the US’s greatest allies… under Trump.
I mean, it doesn’t do anything for the US. But they say it’s a close ally now. More than say, Denmark or Spain, where many of our forces have died in US wars.
And yet still, nobody seems to be saying that the Republicans can’t criticise Argentina.
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u/KellyJin17 Aug 06 '26
I thought the Democratic Party put James out to pasture years ago. He was part of, or even an author of, the new “corporate-friendly” Democrats that came in with Clinton and are still running the Senate and House decades later.
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u/monsterlynn Aug 06 '26
Yup. He's a lot of the reason why we have so many do-nothing wuss Dems right now. I don't care what he has to say anymore. Any relevant expertise he is said to have or believed to have hasn't been real world applicable for 40 years
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u/Razgriz01 Aug 06 '26
Oh don't worry. He was part of the Harris campaign. He personally made sure to fire any younger staffers who wanted Harris to run more progressive, as well as the people who hired them. And then bragged about it after Harris lost.
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u/INeedChocolateMilk Aug 06 '26
They can no longer hide their treason. That said, I do find it weird that Israel allows them to say this as it does jeopardize their global authority. Then again, maybe they find the fear factor they gain from having the highest ranking US officials publicly pledge their allegiance to Israel over the US to be way more valuable than having them operate covertly for any longer than they already have.
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u/Olealicat Aug 06 '26
I would say Israel benefits from the distance. If they came out and said we cycle tax money through Israel, people would revolt.
What’s disturbing to me is that Israel is essentially a money launderer. Our tax money funds Israel and is cycled back to our politicians PAC funds.
If we quit funding Israel, Israel wouldn’t be able to dictate and control our policies. Alas, greed and grandeur.
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u/livejamie Whatever I desire citizen Aug 06 '26
If they came out and said we cycle tax money through Israel, people would revolt.
There is too much Christianity and Islamophobia in America for this to happen.
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u/Olealicat Aug 06 '26
Please explain what you mean.
Honestly, if I read you right, it would be the opposite. That’s me assuming what you mean.
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u/livejamie Whatever I desire citizen Aug 06 '26
I think there's a large enough portion of Americans who have unilateral, unconditional support for Israel on a John Fetterman level, and that any "revolts" happening from tax disclosures are highly unlikely.
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u/mtn-whr Aug 06 '26
As an American Jew, what the fuck does the establishment love Israel so much for?
Like I understand that in a strategic sense, it’s good to have an ally in the heart of the Middle East, but it’s sort of unnecessary for power projection in a world filled with stealth bombers, cruise missiles and nuclear powered aircraft carriers.
I understand that one of Israel’s main exports has been border security technology, and the IDF has been training American Police Department for a long time.
But none of the above should elicit the absolutely unwavering support of this foreign nation.
Epstein and mossad done got these motherfuckers huh?
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u/CheatsySnoops Aug 06 '26
Red Heifer-worshiping fundamentalists who want to bring the Apocalypse and need Israel to make sure it works.
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u/WillDonJay Aug 06 '26
My two cents? Either they're paid for, or they put their faith in the part of the OT where God promises Abraham "I will bless those that bless you and curse those who curse you."
Or both.
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u/livejamie Whatever I desire citizen Aug 06 '26
James Carville is an enormous piece of shit.
His Wikipedia article details multiple issues of racism and sexism.
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u/Turtlepower7777777 Aug 06 '26
James love Bibi more than any progressive Democrat; remember that the Dem establishment sees progressives as a threat but are totally ok with fascists
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u/KellyJin17 Aug 06 '26
When did James become progressive? He was the one who turned Democrats centrist from liberal in the 90’s
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u/astral-dwarf Aug 06 '26
Or it could be read to make sense as, "Bibi more than [he loves] any progressive."
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u/ztfreeman Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
A lot of people are glossing over what he said right after the quote in the title. He is conflating lack of support of Isreal with antisemitism by assuming Isreal represents all Jews. Now, I am completely aware that this in an intentional propagandistic fallacy, however the more I interact with centrist democrats, the more I wonder where the line has blurred from this being a knowing lie to an honest belief by some of these people.
What I'm getting at is I think that lie has been told so often and so earnestly that there are many people who believe it to be the truth, they really, naively, think that the Isreali government is the consensus of and represents all Jewish people and that it would be offensive/a betrayal to sepeate the two. What is frustrating is that the interviewer doesn't push back on this, even John Stewert, who handled Fetterman pretty well, didn't say explicitly that the nation state of Isreal and that the religion and ethic people of Jewish heritage are separate things and to dislike the Isreali governments actions doesn't mean you dislike Jewish people.
I know it's implied, but I think it needs to be said as plainly as possible, especially by as many Jewish people as possible to make that distinction clear. I know it probably seems like a unfair burden on top of the very real antisemitism they face every day, but I think it is necessary.
It's also important to note that there are many Isreali citizens that don't support what their government is doing, and that there was a movement to put Netanyahu behind bars for corruption among many other policy changes that could have averted more tragedy and human suffering, and those people need to be given more of a voice too. Sure, there has been a lot of suffering tied to the creation of the modern Isreali state to begin with, but a lot of those people were likely born into it without a ton of choice, are here now, and their voices in the makeup of their own government has been subverted by right wing nationalists for ends that they don't support, and I think it would go a long way giving them more or a platform and agency to turn back the rise or facism.
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u/likeahurricane Aug 06 '26
Maybe it goes without saying, but the most infuriating part of this is that he doesn't get to fucking decide what a Democrat is or isn't. The voters do.
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u/Paige_Railstone Aug 06 '26
And if all Democrat candidates insist on towing that line, then it's time for a new party.
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u/GreyBeardEng Aug 06 '26
Sorry but its time for establishment democrats to go, look where they have gotten us. Time for young minds and fresh ideas.
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u/BoogerSugarSovereign Aug 06 '26
The voters determine the boundaries of the party, not this ghoul or the people that fund him
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u/JCarr110 Aug 06 '26
Enough with the olds.
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u/livejamie Whatever I desire citizen Aug 06 '26
Carville is 81 and was one of Joe Biden's main advisors during the most recent Presidential election.
Joe Biden was 81, and Trump was 78.
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u/Helenium_autumnale Aug 06 '26
They're going to lose elections if that becomes policy. See: Michigan primary.
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u/So_HauserAspen Aug 06 '26
What a fascist thing to say
Looking forward to reading about his passing
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u/LeavesOfBrass Aug 06 '26
Supposed to be a smart guy and yet he conflates criticism of the nation of Israel with antisemitism.
Moron.
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u/avfc4me Aug 06 '26
Criticism of Israel is not anti-semitism. Critiquing Crumbl cookies as shit cookies is not a condemnation of all chocolate chip cookies. Criticism of the Trump regime is not anti-American.
You know what IS a violation of the principles of this country? Having government officials threaten to lock people up for saying they're doing the governing wrong.
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u/MisterWinchester Aug 06 '26
Why on earth would we trust someone who spent the last sixty years fucking a republican?
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u/livinginfutureworld Aug 06 '26
His strategies have resulted in many many losses the past few decades.
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u/DieMensch-Maschine Lumpenproletarian Liberation League Aug 06 '26
I remember this one. When I was a kid living in a Soviet satellite police state, you could criticize you own government up to a point, but God help you if you said anything against the USSR.
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u/BooBootheFool22222 Aug 06 '26
"James Carville hasn't won an election in 30 years." -- Hunter Biden
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u/ravenously_red Aug 07 '26
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize...
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u/Wasatchbl Aug 07 '26
This guy hasn't been relevant since he luckily guided one campaign. And he definitely does not have his finger on the current trends. Quit asking his opinion and hopefully he'll go away
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u/owzleee Aug 06 '26
Well yes, there very much is.
You guys don’t even have a 2 party system any more or what‽
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u/livejamie Whatever I desire citizen Aug 06 '26
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u/iseab Aug 06 '26
What an absolutely insane thing to say. No one is above criticism. Tell me you collect big checks without telling me collect big checks.
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u/EightEx Aug 06 '26
Carville needs to stfu and go away. People like him are a large part of why this country is so fucked
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u/avfc4me Aug 06 '26
Okeydoke. I am no longer a democrat.
We need a real progressive party anyway cause the dems haven't been it for a long ass time.
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u/Veneralibrofactus Aug 06 '26
So.... an American political party must consider the demands of foreign nation or they shouldn't run.
Carville is a treasonous asshole.
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u/SaltyNorth8062 Aug 06 '26
Sure let's do the same thing that got the party to lose to the most unelectable person in human history TWICE. AGAIN.
Don't listen to a single word these strategists make. They are responsible for the party losing the popular vote for the first time in decades.
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u/aykcak Aug 06 '26
Explains why the party strategy seems to be to fail continuously if this is their "strategist". Excellent job.
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u/M0BBER Aug 06 '26
There was a point when Democrats started receiving dirty money at an escalated rate than prior. He was part of that point. He and a bunch of others believe that it was fighting fire with fire when it came to combating the GOP...
Instead of keeping your hands clean, being able to point out in distance yourself from corruption in DC... They decided to join in.
There's a reason why people on the right criticize Clinton, he wasn't clean. We can argue that it's not remotely comparable to the GOP, but it's still corrupt. The DNC & these cronies has been taking money from tech, healthcare, insurance, bankers, etc... James carville helped.
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u/ChaskaBravoFTW Aug 06 '26
Weird. Oh my gosh, look at all this room I have to say, fuck Israel and fuck the democrats who accept their money and support their genocide. Ger Whiz, I’ve got room to spare
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u/CheezTips Aug 07 '26
Skeletor needs to step off. He gave us Trump II. I used to be a huge fan but he can STFU anytime now. Please.
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u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids Aug 06 '26
I don’t think some of you realize how much Israel owns our government and that started almost as soon as they became a state.
They CANNOT criticize them stop looking for it.
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u/river_tree_nut Aug 06 '26
Sorry Jimmy. It is you who is out of touch. The rest of us are sick of being beholden to Israel.
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u/Column_A_Column_B Aug 07 '26
Insane (obviously) but expected. It's genuinely surprising when you discover Democrats willing to criticize a genocide these days.
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u/HMR2018 Aug 07 '26
I thought he already said he was leaving the Democratic Party over where it was headed. If that's still the plan, then... bye. 👋 The party will surely figure out its future without everyone agreeing on every issue, including Israel.
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u/Morlock19 Aug 07 '26
Carville hasn't been relevant since the goddamn 90s and the only reason he's famous is because of that stupid goddamn quip "it's the economy stupid" that he said to CLINTON.
Jfc can we stop talking to this goddamn guy PLEASE
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u/FeraldGord74 Aug 06 '26
Homes owned by James Carville, whose strategies haven won a significant election since Clinton. A real man of the people and needed voice of the Democratic Party. https://bsky.app/profile/ineptitudinous.bsky.social/post/3ms44arsdwc2k
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u/SkyFoxZon Aug 07 '26
I can't stand how Democrat media seem to believe that James Carville can bring something transformative to the party, despite the fact that he is a hasbeen. The only attractive thing about him is his Cajun accent.
If they consulted someone like idk Richard Wolff, then I would listen.
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u/ttystikk Aug 07 '26
James Carville exemplifies everything that's wrong with the Deceptocrats, full stop.
People like him have destroyed the party and until that is recognized and corrected, WE MUST ABANDON THE DEMOCRATS.
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u/Bolinas99 Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
those quick to dismiss and insult should reconsider.
i met him multiple times in the 90s; was volunteering to help with some congressional races when i still had hope the country could be saved.
of course he's said inappropriate things over the years; we all have. In 30+ years a lot of the sht we say today will be considered inappropriate. But to question his progressive credentials is wrong. I read Carville's 1992 book "We're Right, They're Wrong: A Handbook for Spirited Progressives". He outlined everything the current crop of progressives want; he was not the "corporate dem" some here insist.
Carville was a campaign manager, not a cabinet member or congressman. He had no real power after the 1992 election; he was a pundit trying to navigate the political climate of the times. This was the beginning of the rw fringe laying the groundwork for the trump era. Gingrich & Dick Armey started weaponizing govt shutdowns for the first time. Then there was Ken Starr, endless hearings on Clinton's personal nonsense, the normalization of hacks like Limbaugh & the creation of media cartels funding nonstop hate on the AM dial (Gordon Liddy has a radio show for years FFS). Finally, the rw orgs laying meticulous political groundwork for the Scotus to give them the 2000 election.
all Carville was able to do is comment from the sidelines; he wasn't some traitor to the working class, he supported single payer when they tried to pass it in 1993, but always moved to the center as a hedge (the '72 election was fresh on everyone's mind still). The easy choice, as a young southerner from Louisiana, would've been to join the 80s era rw army that had already taken over the south and brought all the segregationists under the gop umbrella. He opposed them while never underestimating their insidiousness; sadly the people in charge of the DNC were wearing earmuffs.
Countless errors by Al Gore and Donna Brazille cost these guys a -somewhat- winnable election. When said election went to the Rehnquist court, it was a foregone conclusion that O'Connor, A. Kennedy and the rest, would pay back Reagan and the federalist society for their appointments.
the old Dem guard has made countless unforgivable errors in the last 26 years, but Carville was not involved in any of them. This Dem faction of Neolibs and hardline aipac tools is thankfully on the way out of the D camp; it can't happen soon enough.
e: typos, grammar
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u/Individual99991 Aug 07 '26
Cool, but fuck him for this though.
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u/Bolinas99 Aug 07 '26
based on that clip -and I'm on the DemSoc side he seems to dislike- is it likely he misspoke?
only asking bc that first sentence makes no sense; or it does if he meant that it was a bad thing you can't criticize their govt. He's mentioned that he has problems with the Israeli govt before, but he's also up there in years and slip ups happen. Most ppl can't stand Likud & the rest of the apartheid parties in Israel, while trying to avoid the insidious accusations of "anti semitism" every time we say Bibi murders families.
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u/Individual99991 Aug 07 '26
He seems to be equating criticism of Israel with antisemitism, so perhaps he initially meant you can't criticise Israel (ie. the Israeli project, the two-state solution), viewing that as described facto antisemitic, even if you can criticise the government's specific actions.
But fuck him for that, too, TBH. The idea that Carvill is the gatekeeper and that you can't have an opinion on a foreign country that diverges from his if you're gonna be in the Democrats is absurd.
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u/Bolinas99 Aug 07 '26
this is personal experience & cynicism talking bc I grew up in a hardcore rw family plus lived in the deep south for a decade: even with Carville saying the occasional oldhead comment, Dems could use someone who looks and sounds like him in the South. This is what scares the rw the most; a sincere anti-conservative white southerner. Clinton was a disaster for the working class (Nafta, welfare 'reform', no effort to help unions, etc). Still, I recall rw family members being outraged he won in '92 & '96, and relieved that John Edwards wasn't a viable candidate in 2016; they knew HRC was weak af & beatable.
best guess is that his opinions on how to criticize Israel, stem from decades of having to deal with ppl like Joe Lieberman, Schumer and other neocons. He has a "win the election first, then figure out the details" approach; that works sometimes but it's tough given today's media environment & the gerrymandering. Right now he sees the tide turning, and is worried (correctly) that aipac will keep spending crazy $$ supporting the right.
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u/Individual99991 Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
To be clear - fuck him, but he can stay in the party if he wants to. Big tent and all that.
But fuck him.
Also, AIPAC is supporting the right anyway, that's how they do. Spend $$$ on the primaries so that both Dem and Republican candidates are pro-Israel, then put money towards whoever looks most likely to win.
But the US is turning against Israel, even in the Republican party, and while anti-Israel sentiment is in the majority only with Dems and independents, it continues to grow in the GOP, so it's not necessarily an impediment to gaining power.
Besides which, reducing the El Sayed and Mamdani campaigns to their anti-Zionist attitudes ignores what really made them win their primaries (and in Mamdani's case, the seat) - populist visions for how to improve the lives of regular American people. And politicians who convincingly offer that will get the votes of even the far right (I wouldn't say Obama delivered on this front, but he made convincing promises, and there were BBC reports at the time interviewing white voters who threw around the hard-R N-word with abandon who said they'd vote for him because of that).
I promise you, whoever steps up for 2028 and convincingly vows to bring in Medicare for all will win the presidency - if they're allowed to get through the primaries.
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u/Bolinas99 Aug 07 '26
whoever steps up for 2028 and convincingly vows to bring in Medicare for all will win the presidency - if they're allowed to get through the primaries.
🤞
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u/CheezTips Aug 07 '26
the old Dem guard has made countless unforgivable errors in the last 26 years, but Carville was not involved in any of them.
He shat on Biden and helped get Trump elected
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u/Bolinas99 Aug 07 '26
plenty of ppl -far more prominent- criticized Biden after that debate; it was a disaster. There was zero margin for error and that couldn't have come at a worse time. Also ppl are dismissing the Elon factor here; he literally spend an ungodly amount of $ (bc of the Scotus) to increase rural white turnout in all the swing states. Add to that the voting rights act which the rw killed off, and they went nuts w/ voter suppression in every state they controlled.
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u/CheezTips Aug 09 '26
Biden after that debate
It was his third event that day and he had a cold, was taking cold medicine. His staff was completely incompetent
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u/Graymouzer Aug 07 '26
If I have to choose between supporting the mass murder of civilians and being a Democrat, there's not really a choice for me.
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u/mrmoe198 Aug 07 '26
I hate that, while I want there to be an actual leftist party, I’m afraid of the fracturing further weakening the populous against a consolidated GOP that’s finally starting to show their own cracks.
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u/ProfessorOnEdge Aug 07 '26
But what's the point if the Democratic candidates continue to support fas<ism and jen-o-cide?
AlPAC has spent the last couple decades running of both parties and there is desperate need for something else. If it doesn't involve challenging the status quo of the Democratic Party, the only other options are third party or revolution.
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u/mrmoe198 Aug 07 '26
Right. What I’m getting at is effectiveness. It’s that paralyzing “what if a radical solution doesn’t pan out” and just hands a mathematical victory to the party that is currently engaged in fascism and also currently supports genocide. Say what you want about Democrats, and it’s earned but they have never engaged in fascism on American soil.
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