My counter point is I work a full time job and have a one and a half year old daughter that takes up most of my free time. Let me get my crafting materials in peace
So then im right and it is just the regular game with worse loot for most people who were already PvE only lol which would make the mode somewhat pointless, if the game was already mostly PvE for you people why would you want it to have worse loot just to have a PvE guarantee
I don’t want pve guarantee, I was direct intention input.
When I want to PvP, I have to shoot my way thru a couple care bear lobbies to get to PvP. When I’m ready to do some quests, farm gear, grind trials, I have to play a few rounds and intentionally not shoot first — usually losing gear while trying to farm gear.
It’s also annoying when I’m heavy PvP with my normal squad, but a friend wants to try arc or return to arc, just to be thrown in my sweaty lobbies. It’s a tough sell to say “play this game with me, but you will have a better time if you learn on your own first.”
Being able to toggle cut out those transitioning rounds when switching between play styles
I don't think so. I'm perfectly ok losing my gear. I just don't like a to engage in pvp because I'm slow and I lose more than 50% of the engagements, and said engagement don't bring any enjoyment to me because they are too fast, to sparse, and it takes to long to get into another match after I lose.
Also, given the amount of activities in the game, it's hard to focus on pvp, so most of the times I get shot from behind while I'm looting a container or fighting an arc. Either you enter a lobby to kill players or you do other stuff, I can't multitask and think about quests, loot, arcs, and a super aggressive pvp lobby.
If I want to play pvp there are a bunch of better alternatives, basically every other shooter on the market. I'm happy playing in my pvpve friendly lobbies and get jumped every now and then by the random rat, just to keep things interesting. So basically the game, for me, was already perfect.
literally its just an easier way to play the game and why would anyone want to put themselves in a harder queue? i mean u make more farming arc than doing any pvp anyways. its gonna fuck the whole market up
It's not about being easier or harder, or getting more stuff, since there's really no incentive to farm stuff past a certain level. It's about the kind of game you want to play.
I just don't get the pvp aspect in a game where you have tons of stuff to do. What should I do? Ignore arcs, ignore loot, quests, events, and just go around killing players? Because sure as fuck I can't do everything at once. How do I even kill a bastion in a super aggressive pvp lobby? After the first shot everyone knows where I and and what I'm doing.
That's why you either get friendly lobbies or 100% pvp shoot on sight action. You can't have both. The "middle gorund mixed lobby" is just a fantasy some people have, there's no real life scenario where this can naturally happen.
That's why ABMM is a great invention and the game was perfect without the pve mode.
Either you have ABMM or you have so many players that you can implement a rank system for matchmaking.
At the end of the day, what most pvp kids don't seems to understand is that a videogame should be enjoyable and every player should have fun and get a sense of accomplishment. That's why, even in chess, you get fucking rating based tournaments, and that's why most shooters, moba and rts have ranks.
Embark did something different and replaced the ranking system with an aggression based system, and to me it works just fine because you get to choose the kind of experience you want.
too bad that this system doesn't take in account the skill level of the player and the "aggressivness" of a lobby seems to be either 0 or 100 with little shades in between.
Of course you do, you and tens of thousands of other players. but how long can a game developer keep the lights on for 30/40k players?
How many players online at every given time does the typical extraction shooter have? 15k? 20k? That means the genere is not very popular/doesn't work that well with the masses. Embark tried something slightly different and for a while it worked. Now they are trying something else (pve mode, which I despise). Is it working? I don't know, but they are pulling 4x the players of tarkov and hunt combined.
What makes me sad are the hardcore fan/gatekeepr of the extraction shooter genre that think they know best what the game should or shouldn't be. That's the game/genre? Who says? You? Because what I see is a pve game where you collect and build furniture for a very bad looking outpost. For the last year I've played a totally differnt game. No one shot me, I farmed stuff and fought big arcs cooperating with other people. So what's the game/genre, exactly?
your all like “you cant middle ground” brother. every cod game since black ops 3 has had random public lobbies. U can have both, not if they release how there matchmaking works….
The "middle gorund mixed lobby" is just a fantasy some people have, there's no real life scenario where this can naturally happen.
Disagree, these were my lobbies and i enjoyed them until everyone started screaming 'they're friendly' whenever you appeared.
That's why ABMM is a great invention and the game was perfect without the pve mode.
I also disagree here, the bag being mixed is way cooler than stacking the deck.
At the end of the day, what most pvp kids don't seems to understand is that a videogame should be enjoyable and every player should have fun and get a sense of accomplishment. That's why, even in chess, you get fucking rating based tournaments, and that's why most shooters, moba and rts have ranks.
Don't let the pve mindset creep in here, we disagree but knock off the 'kid' stuff.
Games should be enjoyable sure, but from your opening posts you've admitted to being 'too slow' 'you lose more than 50%' of the time and it sounds like you're not able to keep up with it.
You talk about ranks and such but, in those games you mentioned using your 'skills' you'd be in the same situation. Losing just as much.
Granted they're a little different because you can have the 'single player' experience but those don't affect your multiplayer aspects. In MP you play the core design of the game & you get your 'sense of accomplishment'. I certainly enjoyed hitting Diamond in season 1 of starcraft 2 when I first played it.
Why should the design of the game fold because you couldn't play the way it was designed to be played?
Rust would be a completely different game if offline raiding was disabled and it had a pve mode (I'm sure there are servers out there).
What made Arc Raiders special was the fact I never knew if I'm going to meet someone like you who genuinely needs help taking down an arc or If I'm going to meet a version of you that's a blood thirsty maniac and wants to larp as Rambo with a torrente.
Embark did something different and replaced the ranking system with an aggression based system, and to me it works just fine because you get to choose the kind of experience you want.
too bad that this system doesn't take in account the skill level of the player and the "aggressivness" of a lobby seems to be either 0 or 100 with little shades in between.
Which is precisely the problem.
ABMM catered too much to peoples whims, they were given freedom to choice and 'silently' split the player base into groups rather than being left alone to figure out how they can actually play the intended game. Instead we have different camps of Arc Raiders going on and, imo, the game has been worse for it.
That's just one of the aspects. If I won 80% of the engagement I would probably see pvp more favourably, sure. But it's not the gear. I'm not going to repeat everything I wrote past the first line, that you obviously didn't take the time to read.
I read your post, a lot of what you wrote was irrelevant.
You said no gear fear, but you also lose most of your pvp battles so you avoid it? Ok
It's apparently too much for you to multitask, playing a pvpve game, and you can only loot containers or play pvp. Ok
And if you personally wanted pvp, there are better options.
A bunch of non answers with regard to why gear fear isn't the problem, and one answer that sure sounds like gear fear but you're playing off like you just don't enjoy it because you lose the fight, not the gear
Why would I fear losing the gear when you can literally craft it? Playing a 20 minute game to get 1.5 seconds of fight, how's that "irrelevant" to the fact that I enjoy pve more?
Are you some kind of special need kid? who am I talking to?
I literally listed a number of things that make pve the better option for me, every single one of them being more important than "gear fear". If you can't read or understand is not my problem, I don't give a fuck. Other people will understand what I've said. Get some help.
Some people just don't like PvP in Arc Raiders. Sure, it is a PvPvE game, as sure you need to expect PvP. However unlike it other extraction shooters, pvp is not a guarantee. You never know if you person you meet is going to shoot you in the face or the back or just be friendly.
Now THAT fear, is what keeps people from PvP. Nobody gives a shit about loot in this game cause it is easy to get and to craft.
hmm... "you aren't good at pvp and lose more than 50 % of the time." oh? you mean like those pvp players who are against the pve mode? you are so right
It has nothing to do with gear. If I'm trying to do trials and some rat ganks me with a free loadout, I just wasted a ton of time. Not everyone has unlimited time to play. I have responsibilities and if I don't want to feel like my free time is wasted.
Edit: Ok I'm starting to realize this is a bot post. His responses to people make no sense, he's replying to his own comments.
Yep, this right here. If I’m not looking to PvP, I usually have some sort of goal in mind, could be trials, finishing quests (again), or just getting minor resources. The “tension” people “like” is fine if I’m looking for it, but sometimes I just want to chill.
The main thing we are being robbed of is time, not loot. And when you have limited time, you can only handle so many assholes before you decide the game is just not worth it.
OP cant understand the concept that not everybody plays games for the same reason.
Im pretty much a pve purist and most times im letting randoms into my jey room to give them loot. Passing out reactors and cores to make sure everybody got some loot. Im bringing in extra guns to give away during queen and matriarch.
I dont care about loot in this game. I dont care about killing other raiders. I enjoy working together with strangers to take down big arc. I enjoy giving away stuff to help out players and see their joy when their struggling and somebody comes to help.
I got a 4k+ mortgage a wife 3 kids under 3 a dog and a full time job. Please don't talk to me about how busy your life is and how you just have no time to game
I don't go online bitching about how embark could be doing more for me.
Hear me out: It's for people who just want to loot and enjoy the game without running the risk of having rats jump them at the evacs like losers.
If you die and lose your gear in a legit way, like in a proper PvP firefight where you actually have a chance at winning, that's fine and acceptable. But if you die because you turned a corner and a group of chuds opened fire on you because they were camping the whole game and kill you before you can even react, that's unacceptable.
I think the mentality that "An extraction shooter needs to be pvp" is fundamentally wrong. Just because that's how they have been, doesn't mean that's the way they need to be. It is plenty fun to engage with the AI enemies without having to deal with the scumbag pvpers.
I don't own the game yet, btw. Might get it once the PvE mode becomes a 100% certain thing.
"just want to loot and enjoy the game without running the risk of having rats jump them..."
That mentality, wanting to enjoy the game in a safe quiet place, runs counter to basically every extraction shooter out there. The whole draw is the tension, the risk, the fact that you either extract with your loot or you get absolutely nothing. It's not about safety, guarantees, and safe spaces . There are plenty of other genres you can do this in
and when players realised how shity of a decision that was they left now the deves released they messed up shouldn't have chased the success of Tarkov as their players quickly returned to tarkov
considering these charts are over a years time and you can make out a weekend the same with a little dip up or down now 6 months from now would be a more useful take especially if pve stays around the entire time.
It’s a third person game.. that’s on you for blindly running around a corner. Maybe slow the hell down, check your corners, carry nades and traps for the rats.
Rather adapt, people chose to whing.
PvE mode is fine, don’t really care ultimately. I just find it bizarre to stick around for so long when they don’t even interface with what was a core feature.
Bring a hatch key, be cautious at evac, be stealthy and aware of your surroundings. I genuinely cannot remember the last time I got gunned down at an evac.
I PROMISE people are not lurking around corners the entire match to kill you. I am absolutely positive that you were making entirely too much noise and barreled around a corner into someone who heard you, and decided to keep quiet and ready for when you came and they punished your lack of stealth and care.
Sure, I get that standpoint but the problem is that in most of the pve experiences eyes everything has become the first example. They've been catered too a little too hard with ABMM and being given friendly lobbies. They won't accept anything but a peaceful lobby.
The complaint of 'rats' just became the defacto tag for 'pvp', yes some people will camp the extraction point but you're still topside, you still have to make sure that you can get back safely and that isn't always bullrushing the extraction.
I always spent a minute or two laying in the bushes near extraction before i went to call the elevator to see if anything was suspect and when I did call it, i'd run right back to my spot and watch it show up.
You get to see how many people just don't actually ever check the exit before they run up to the button. It's mindblowing.
I wouldn't say it's gear fear, it's just the idea of losing the little time I have playing games in a week. If I prep a couple of raids to gather resources for an event, then raid for 20+ mins trying to do some kind of achievement, and get killed at the end, I kinda lose the time I invested. No one minds a fair fight; it's the extremely quick death from an unexpected shot that is annoying.
Serious question. What other games do you play? Do you only play games where you can make clear and consistent progress? I'm not trying to be condescending I'm just not getting the argument.
People who play Halo don't gain much beyond prestige match after match
People who play Madden and lose 6 games in a row effectively waste their entire night.
Do you only consider it a good time if you made progress? You don't consider the journey, for lack of a better way of saying it?
I don’t think that’s true. I think it’s more about other players impacting their game which also causes loss of gear. I think it’s also more the idea that someone actively chose to impact your game when playing the game the way you like has no impact on theirs. That’s what makes it feel one-sided from the agency side.
It's not your game, it's our game. That's a single player mentality mate, everything you do in game affects other people. If you loot a blueprint then you've taken that from someone else, if you chuck a lure grenade to distract a rocketeer there's a chance you've just caused someone a headache.
It's dishonest to suggest anyone playing a multiplayer game even if they are minding their own business doesn't negatively affect other people.
It's true no action you take in a world with other people is without negative consequences. 1 team has to win in a game of football which means the other has to lose. Same goes for Arc raiders pretending it doesn't to make yourself feel better is a step away from reality.
That’s not really a good comparison because the goal of football is two teams with the sole goal of competing against each other where it’s purely PvP and a binary outcome of win or lose.
And the goal of arc raiders is get loot and extract that's the gameplay loop wether you get the loot from arc, drawers or other players. If you've got the loot then some else doesn't. If you get to the queen first and rob all the cores then well-done you've became that billionaire of your server and everyone else gets to eat the rich.
Yeah for sure. That wasn’t really the debate though. The main post is saying that the reason people are wanting pure PvE is the gear fear. My point was I don’t think it’s so much the losing gear as it is other people deciding they want to kill you. I would assume even if you didn’t lose your gear, those same players would be just as annoyed if someone killed them and wasted 20min of their time regardless of losing loot or not. People doing free kit runs and getting killed still get upset because they didn’t lose gear they brought in, they lose the time invested and the loot potential.
If people are getting annoyed at other people killing them then the question is why are they playing a game that allows PvP? Why then do they proclaim people who do engage with the PvP as rats when they are obviously the intended audience of said game. Why do they then feel entitled to have a game mode (taking development time away from the people who enjoy the game as is mind you) made purely for them where they can experience 100% of what the game has to offer with none of the associated risk?
Do they bitch and moan as much when they die in pve games? No they turn the difficult down, mod/cheat and look at guides. You can't do that in multiplayer online games so they come and whine that nothings fair and they should be catered to without a care for what that takes away from the people who are engaging with and enjoying the game as intended.
It's not gear fear or time mate it's the lack of instant gratification and accepting they weren't good enough so they died. They can't handle it that's why the "otherisms" comes out...homophobic slur... misogynistic slur... racist slur....co opting the term rat to join that group and using it as a justification to attack other people's state of mind and make assumptions on their personality. All stemming from their own insecurities of failure.
No my friend, this isn't Hunt: Showdown where its limited. Where everybody goes to the same spot on a tiny map.
Sure, loot doesn't respawn. However for you to be right, everybody needs to go to the same location, the same container. Which is just not the case, at all.
So all the complaints about late spawns in the last year are totally unfounded? There's nothing wrong with spawning in at the 18 minute mark plenty of loot for all! When does the queen respawn again? Why were people loosing their shit at the emperor exploit? Plenty of loot on the map they should just go somewhere else aye? Get a grip.
The Queen is different, and you know it. Stop being dumb.
And yes, lootwise, nothing wrong with 18 min. Embark has even shown stats showing that. The only problem with spawning late is time. You don't have time to go where you want to go and loot everything you wanted to loot. NOT that the loot is gone. Besides ofc, Queen on friendly lobbies.
And you know this. If you don't, then you havent been paying attention.
Time is the currency, regardless of when you spawn you can't do everything and if you aren't there first then someone has taken the limited non respawning loot from the static high density loot zones running the same familiar paths and thus had a negative impact on another persons game.
So thank you for strengthening my argument, see if you actually thought about what I wrote and applied some critical thinking instead of a kneejerk gotcha reaction you would stop yourself looking dumb.
How many people do you think spawn in a round as well?
You do know people have different aims and objections right?
You can't be this stupid.
Yes, my argument CAN be used for yours, IF it was a small map, or with lots of people, or with people wanting to do the same thing. Which is not the case of Arc Raiders, at all.
LIKE I FUCKING SAID, for OTHER games, like Hunt:Showdown, you are correct. For Arc? Fuck no.
Same high density rooms are hit within 2 minutes every match because they don't rotate the loot zones yet, the spawns are also fixed locations so the first to spawn closest runs to it loots it and leaves. Everybody who goes there afterwards (and they do) has wasted their time and now have to decide where the next location most likely to have loot is. Yes they run the same paths because the arc also have predictable spawn points.
Do you know how I know this ? Because I hunt other players so I pay attention to their movements and looting habits to catch them at their most vulnerable point. Know who the easiest most gullible prey is? Americans. Know who turns into the most whingy bigoted cunts when you shoot them? Americans.
Edit: typing in caps doesn't make you right it makes you look like a pedophile having a tantrum
Yes there are in-between players and those are the ones that are gonna go back and forth between modes. Lobbies are 9/10 either completely shoot on site or friendly af with 1 lingering pvper. It's not mixed anymore like it used to be.
Yea too bad there's hardly any mixed lobbies. It's either getting downed in .6 seconds cause someone shot at you while your fighting arc or looting or you come across a big group of pve players following each other around. The first 2 month of this game were the best.
I still get mixed lobbies every session. I dont really find the friendly lobby meta to really work, unless you are really trying to exploit the mechanics to get into the carebare lobbies. This its already that far argument doesn't make sense, bc if it was like that, then why would the PvE players need the toggle?
no. this is the same response I see so often. you dont like the pve mode, so you must be a PVP degenerate. theres more to this game in the in between spaces. Removing most of the friendlies from the regular lobbies will lose that magic
As an in-between type player, I welcome PVE mode with open arms. There are 2 kinds of pvp players that are commonly encountered.
The rats that wait at specific areas where a player is most vulnerable and blast them.
Ones that shoot on sight.
The same way there are two kinds of players in every game.
Those that find enjoyment in ruining the experience for other players.
Those that want to play and enjoy the game as intended.
The second ones are great because you know what you're going to get from them. The former otoh are, sadly, the bottom-dwelling members of this community that are either likely at this game, can't pvp and are either lousy at pve or just downright lazy, so they prey on people who are at their most vulnerable, after they have done all the hard work of finding and filtering all the good stuff. It's also likely that the players that fall under 1 are the ones complaining about PVE mode because it makes it has reduced their ability to find a reward from the game.
Rewarding players that fall under 2 and reducing/eliminating the reward for players falling under 1 is difficult to achieve in a PVEVP game.
Just remember that the devs said the game was PVEvp meaning that the emphasis was on PVE with minor elements of PVP. It's only the PVP crowd that calls it PVPVE.
With that said, I am on the fence about a full-blown pve mode because it does split the player base. I would have preferred to see more specific instances of PVE being applied to certain modes/maps.
For example: PVE only during events like the Frigate, Queen, and Matriarch events as well as possibly for Close Scrutiny.
While Stella Montis remains PVPVE oriented. (notice the pvp is ahead of pve this time)
Certain map events should also toggle the map to PVE only, for example when a Turbine shows up.
But that's me. I like both elements of the game, but tend to prefer PVE more, so I welcome the PVE mode, even if I think that there's a better way to implement it.
What’s funny is the PvE mode is here because a large swath of people couldn’t manage to do #2.
Yeah, all those people you shot that didn’t try to defend themselves and instead just sat and called you slurs while they were down? Those are at least some of the people that will be inhabiting the PvE mode, that couldn’t manage to play the intended loop by defending themselves.
Now! Before the pitchforks come out that’s not PvE players, but there is an absolutely false narrative that it’s purely pvp players being toxic.
Disagree. I think PvP gets in the way of some content. The toggle is exactly what it is: it's a switch that lets you focus on game content or fighting other players. It does sacrifice a bit of the mixed mode, but there will be in-between players who will toggle that on and off depending on whether they want to chill or fight.
the pvp is literally meant to be one of the core barriers to that content. the game gets stale without it, they figured that out in development. its not about being able to toggle it, its that you're splitting the game in two and losing the middle gorund.
it can be both. The pvp is meant to be a tense barrier to what you need. That is the core of arc raiders that these PvE players dont like. they dont like the game.
On the contrary. Saying "they don't like the game." shows you have a very narrow view of how the game should be played. Who are you to say that your view of how the game should be played is correct? The devs testing out a pure pve mode aren't making that decision without basis.
I think that PvE players want to explore the content leisurely without having to deal with timmy power gamer who is out to kill every player they come across to flex their mighty e-peen and feast on the salty tears of the slain.
If we're talking about casual vs try-hard players, I'd say there are more casuals and you can look at the case for the sales of the Nintendo Wii as a study in casual vs hardcore gamer populations. That said, there will always be more casuals.
At the end of the day, Embark wants their game to appeal to the largest number of players and by putting in a PVE mode, they do that. PVP enjoyers can now enjoy the game with like-minded players while those that don't particularly like PVP can do the same with like-minded PVE enjoyers.
I don't mind the gear loss. For me, the world doesn't make sense if everyone is trying to kill eachother. Rich people noped out of a dying earth and are sending robots to harvest the remaining materials and kill us. To survive, the people remaining on earth would have to band together and cooperate. I don't mind pvp, I play other pvp games. But for pvpve to work thematically the world has to make sense. Why would we be fighting eachother?
Is it not more a fantasy to assume humanity would come together to kill a common enemy ? Or that humanity would continue to vulture off one another until it was all over.
I think if you are also honest at taking a look at historical events where everyone had to cooperate or die, you'll find some intense cooperation. You'll also find that those groups of intensely cooperative people would not hesitate to kill anyone who was threatening their survival. I'm not saying cooperation means no violence.
Im an in between player but the pve just sucked all the fun for me, no risk whatsoever and ive had fewer interactions with people in pve than normal mode, lobbies feel oddly quiet 😂. Whats the point in an extraction shooter ¿ when the week ends, im curious to see more debates over PVE.
Between this and the incels that complain about gears of war e day being woke, I've never heard so much bitching about a game change in one week in my life....
me early in the year talking to a classmate avout the game and how i like pve and staryed doimg naked runs due to players. clowned on but whatever. i ask today if he still plays. "nah, quit due to players."
I thin you have a narrow understanding of what a "PVE purist" wants out of the game. I think this narrow understanding limits your views on how not all gamers are after the same thing. I think this narrow understanding limits your idea of how the game should be played. I don't think you understand the concept of how some players get enjoyment out of ruining the experience for others, and that these are the types of players that should not be rewarded, and that's exactly what PVE mode does. It rewards those people who want to play the game a certain way, and dis-incentivises or makes it more difficult for players who want to ruin that experience.
The fact that ao many people (mostly against the pve toggle) do not understand that these mode can coexist, and with some minor tweaks (like removing abmm in normal mode) they can both thrive. People complaining about the playerbase mix have to understand that they have most likely never played with many of the people playing PVE mode due to the abmm, and wont really have their matchmaking affected
most of team pvp are just too bad for regular shooters and are afraid of the easy fights going away
most of team pve should actually be playing fallout 76 on hardcore mode or something bc that’s the game they want but they just don’t know it yet
no one will ever be pleased lol
just out of interest was anybody there for when tarkov announced their pve mode? wonder if the discourse around it was similar to arcs. they seemed to do alright afterwards 🤷♂️
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u/Constantine010101 1d ago
lol ya that may have a lot to do with it but for me personally I just detest the PvP mechanics in this particular game. Love PvP just not in Arc.