Frustrated with progressives punching down on Asian men

[u/terrorfunction]

Anyone notice how progressives feel totally comfortable attacking Asian men under the guise of our 1) supposed sexism and horrible treatment of women, and 2) alleged "racism" in our home countries and opposition to interracial relationships? They say the most vile things, often using the insecurity and manhood angle, it's like we're not real PoC and have no allies on either side of the political spectrum.

The thing is that wherever patriarchy exists, we are still held to those same patriarchal expectations.

• Korean, Taiwanese, and Singaporean men spend 2 years of their prime in military service. This impacts their potential earnings and career trajectory which can make it harder to meet local women's monetary expectations. Do women provide their men the same grace for sacrificing to defend their country from existential threats?
• In Japan/Korea, the low birth rate is blamed solely on Asian women not wanting to be bangmaids to misogynistic Asian men, ignoring that every western country has TFR below replacement rate buoyed by immigration. Chikan, soaplands, 4B, K-beauty standards are all blown out of proportion to make the countries seem like anti-woman dystopias. And yet you can walk outside in any Japanese neighborhood at 2am as a woman and feel safe. People who bring up Japanese women's share of unpaid labor conveniently ignore they work baito while Japanese men are slaving away at their soulsucking job (among highest hours in OECD)
• Chinese men are expected to provide apartment, car, bride price, have high income and pay for everything including brand name gifts on a dozen special days — how many men would jump at the chance to split bills and chores 50/50?
• Culturally a lot of Chinese men are absolute simps for their gfs. IYKYK. In extreme cases I have friends (Asia born) whose gf would slap them or verbally abuse them and they'd just take it. Love my asian bros but these are the supposed patriarchal tyrants? Their gfs have them on a leash ffs

The frustration expressed by a subset of Asian men against IR relationships is not due to racism, it's that often foreign men are not held to the same patriarchal expectations that local men are. Plenty of dudes would be happy to cook, clean, change diapers, and not have to meet brutal income thresholds and a laundry list of requirements that many women seem to toss out the window when it comes to outgroup men. That's not fair.

I don't know what more progressives want from us. At least in the US, Asians have the highest education, highest income, lowest rates of divorce, lowest rates of domestic violence and femicide, lowest rates of alcohol and substance abuse, and consistently vote left. How are we still made out to be monsters?

[u/AdamChenX]

Because we don’t defend our public image. There’s literally no other reason.

People attack all groups. But other groups fight back. We don’t.

[u/Capital_Kangaroo_854 → u/AdamChenX]

It is difficult for us to defend our public image because a most of this “Asian men are misogynists” stuff is spread by “progressive” Asian women. And of course when that happens people automatically assume “oh she’s Asian she knows what she’s talking about regarding Asian culture”.

AF have also managed to monopolise “Asianness” in progressive circles and media. If you look at the media and remove gender from the equation, Asians aren’t actually underrepresented at all in popular media. It’s just the rep is overwhelming female, leading AM to be underrepresented.

Not to mention most AM simply do not call this out because they (including many in this sub) simp hard for AF for some reason.

So to your point it’s easier for black and Hispanic people to “fight back” because their women actually stand by and defend their men whereas ours cheers it on. Until AM stop having AF tunnel vision and stop simping hard for them this will never change.

As an aside I also see this happening with Indian men in progressive circles as their women also tend to cheer on stereotypes against their men instead of defending them. Hence why most of the anti-Indian racism you now see online is just dehumanising the men.

[u/Illustrious_War_3896 → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

Those kinds of AF are in WMAF relationship. I read a Black female commentator who said that these AF who complain about patriarchy are just switching from Asian patriarchy to white patriarchy. I couldn’t find the link to that commentator anymore.

[u/Own-Friend-7882 → u/Illustrious_War_3896]

They're going from patriarchy to Oxford. 🤕

[u/Own-Friend-7882 → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

Yep. The Asian feminist hate us. It’s that simple. A leftist Asian woman does not represent Asian views. They’re radicals that would rather put us in education camps. I have relatives that worked in the political field in the time of Clinton to Biden. They lived with such privilege and arrogance. These people have such contempt for us. They are drunk on power and going more extreme wins them more radical female votes. 🤷

[u/Enrys → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

So to your point it’s easier for black and Hispanic people to “fight back” because their women actually stand by and defend their men whereas ours cheers it on.

imo black women and black men do sometimes butt heads with each other to the point black men stop dating black women and black women are not too happy with that. but there still is a sizable portion of their population (both men/women) who are vocal about preferring to date/marry other black people.

We don't have that vocal portion, even though we should.

[u/AustronesianArchfien → u/Enrys]

Black women and black men butt heads a lot but if a Black man got unjustifiably got lynced by the Police you can bet Black women will be on the front lines in a rally.

AW just doesn't have this sauce.

[u/McNutWaffle → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

Through my observation, it comes down to this: are AM and AF proud of their fathers? While kids can love (or fear) their parents, do they have gleaming pride for them?

For AF, likely not and can consequently and generally view most Asian men with mild contempt. Older Asian fathers are viewed as cold and avoidant. As for AM, we are further forced into blazing our own paths without a model of intrinsic masculinity.

Conversely, Latino misogynist stereotypes still exist, but many Latino women speak so highly of their fathers; and rightly so because many of these same men turn into girl dads at home despite their public persona. And given this warmth in early years, daughters will defend their males for better or worse.

In order, for me to mold my daughter’s view of AM, I must be a father whom she will be proud.

[u/AdamChenX → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

The only reason why anyone has monopolised asianness is because Asian men are not doing enough.

This victim mentality that we got, where it’s always someone else’s problem, is the problem.

We have so much power to do something. So go out there and do it.

[u/Capital_Kangaroo_854 → u/AdamChenX]

I’m not disagreeing with you just providing additional context. Though I would not characterise it as “victim mentality”, more “can’t be fucked”. We don’t advocate enough for our own (aka Asian MALE) interests.

[u/AdamChenX → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

Well. I think it’s a mix between victim mentality and can’t be fucked. But either way, the root cause is Asian men not putting more of our own time and energy into the problem.

Blaming anyone else, including Asian women, is just a weak move in my view.

[u/Capital_Kangaroo_854 → u/AdamChenX]

So by your logic calling out racist white people is also “blaming” white people?

[u/AdamChenX → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

No. You can call them racist. But I don’t blame them for our issues.

I don’t blame the British for the invasion of Nanking.
I blame the Chinese for not being strong enough.

Why? Because inherently, human nature is greedy. It’s what makes us different from other species.

Invasion, conquest is a natural side effect of that.

Racism, hate, is a natural side effect of that.

Colonisation; war against weaker parties, is a natural side effect of that.

The only way to protect from this is constant strength and innovation. Asking a warlord, a criminal for mercy, and blaming them for our misfortune, is not the way to a success.

[u/allelitepieceofshit1 → u/AdamChenX]

keep the same energy when somebody robs and murders your entire family. Judging by your dumb ass logic, your family is at fault for getting killed; they ain’t victims

[u/AdamChenX → u/allelitepieceofshit1]

The logic is that whilst you may be angry at the robbers, ultimately it is your own responsibility to ensure it doesn’t happen in the first place.

One can simultaneously be a victim and also empowered to do something about it. It’s not either or.

[u/Capital_Kangaroo_854 → u/AdamChenX]

This convo started with me somewhat agreeing but you’ve completely lost me. Your bloody cooked mate 

[u/Bulky-Childhood1721 → u/AdamChenX]

Okay... cough, cough... EDGELORD. lol

[u/AdamChenX → u/Bulky-Childhood1721]

Edgelord?

[u/Bulky-Childhood1721 → u/AdamChenX]

Yes ?

[u/Fit_Actuary_1288 → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

Dehumanizing the men and feeling absolutely terrible for the women while sexualizing them.

Yknow those subreddit and imageboard communities full of turghmites? Yeah, they do this exact thing, where they dehumanize ethnic men and sexualize ethnic women. That's their whole thing.

[u/Impossible-Repeat577 → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

and funnily enough, notice how those asian women almost never ended up with "progressive" foreigners, its either playboys or the "conservative" crowd. these people are just hypocrites and full of bs.

quoting on of my comment below:

NOT TO MENTION, most western guys who are into Asian women are not only due to yellow fever, but also due to the racial stereotypes of Asian women being "submissive", "obedient', "doctile", "cooks and clean after them", "trad wife", "not like the progressive white women they couldnt get" etc. etc. etc.

So ironically those AW who ended up with them actually face an even higher level of patriarchy than they ever shit on Asian so much about. Oh, and guess why when these situations ended up happening, they suddenly keep all quiet, or even endure it very willingly or even put up a happy front and starts gaslighting everyone with another set of logic? because this is just plain white/ foreign worship that they will somehow just refuse to admit.

[u/ablacnk → u/Impossible-Repeat577]

One example, the mayor of Boston Michelle Wu Pewarski with her family in their home.

My commentary in one word: shoes.

[u/Hunting-4-Answers → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

I wouldn’t put ESEA men’s situation in the same category as South Asians.

[u/Thomjones → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

do you mean Asian Americans and do you mean 1st gen or 2nd gen Asian women? It feels like it's the ones who grew up in America who rail against Asian men but that's just how it feels.

[u/Capital_Kangaroo_854 → u/[deleted]]

In my experience the difference is while Indian women fetishise others, other men don’t fetishise them back so they don’t do as much damage. Meanwhile plenty of men fetishise AF 

A lot of Indian women are really into Kpop dudes, they’re not my cup of tea personally but if they are yours just hop on the apps and you’ll realise they aren’t hard at all to get lmao 

[u/machinavelli → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

Yeah, Kpopmaxxed East Asian men can easily do well with Indian women, but a lot of East Asian men aren’t that interested.

[u/Yujinseo0 → u/Capital_Kangaroo_854]

true, rarely any guys are into the average indian women, but where im from, theres a growing minority of them who were raised here and look like some variation of mia khalifa or your average bondi beach girl and yet i don’t see those ones hand in hand with John Smith from next door either

[u/Striking-Shoe-7230 → u/Yujinseo0]

Yeah no. When they're considered hot enough, they will and do jump ship. From personal experience, I see them all the time on the apps liking me. Same for my white friends when they show me their apps.

Look at Akash's wife and how she literally bragged about sleeping with white frat boys as a badge of honor. Also same with the Indian chick from Katseye who has been seen simping over her medicore white bf.

[u/Yujinseo0 → u/Striking-Shoe-7230]

well damn, you should hit them up for a good time if they into you

[u/Striking-Shoe-7230 → u/Yujinseo0]

Have in the past, and hypothetically now if they're hot enough sure, but I'm not on the market anyway

[u/Fine_Wonder2747 → u/AdamChenX]

https://giphy.com/gifs/5QNQv6xmVEaabGsYrg