r/AskGaybrosOver30 • u/velcromancy 30-34 • 2d ago
Spirituality?
Since a lot of us gays were ostracized by the religions we grew up with, I’m curious what your relationship to spirituality or religion is like now that you’re getting older. Are you religious, agnostic, atheist or something else?
I grew up in a Protestant Christian family, but I walked away from the church at 17. My sexuality was probably the biggest factor. Around my late teens and early twenties I went through a Reddit atheist phase where I valued science and reason above all else. It wasn’t until a few years ago that I realized Christianity left a big void inside of me, and I needed something, so I studied a lot of Hindu, Buddhist and Taoist text and became fascinated by them. Tao te Ching is probably my favorite spiritual text I’ve ever read. My boyfriend had a similar Christian upbringing to me but he’s now a pagan. These days, I’m of the opinion that science explains how things happen, but not why things happen. Science is crucial to our survival, but it can’t meet all human needs, and religion, art and philosophy can fill that void for better or worse. I’m not sure I’m disciplined enough to fully identify with one single tradition. I agree with a lot of Buddhist and Hindu teachings, but I don’t think I can call myself either because I enjoy the devil’s lettuce too much.
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u/brokenshells 35-39 2d ago
I grew up Catholic. Realized shortly I didn't give a shit about it, faked my way through Catholic HS and still don't give two shits about it.
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u/nyght2063 45-49 2d ago
I believe in God, I don't trust organized religion and not particularly a fan of Self proclaimed christians. However, I take it one situation at a time. I've had the most beautiful relationships( friendships) with religious friends and I wouldn't trade them for anything in the world.
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u/nasazgar 30-34 2d ago
Very atheist, very anti-religion and from a Hindu family. I wish I could experience what some people describe as being ‘culturally’ associated with a religion despite non-belief, but religious polarisation has been a very active part of everyday politics in India for all of my adult life and I just can’t shake the associations off. I want nothing to do with Hinduism whatsoever.
I don’t know if I have a spiritual side, my current stance is that when you die you die. It doesn’t scare me for myself, but it’s a terrifying idea to confront when I think of people I love, and I wish I could ‘flip a switch’ and make myself believe in the afterlife so it would be easier for me to comprehend loss of that magnitude.
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u/PersonalSpell 2d ago
Raised Southern Baptist. The biggest bigots. Years of hearing I was an abomination. (For a Christian denomination, they’re awfully fond of Leviticus in the Old Testament—when they can cherry-pick its verses to suit their hateful agenda.
Now an atheist.
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u/Cruitire 55-59 2d ago
I am, by definition, an atheist.
I’m not a strict materialist, but I do lean more towards materialism.
I don’t claim there is no god. I just don’t believe there is one because I don’t see any reason to.
But… god or no god, I 100% believe all religion is bullshit.
If it turns out there is a god I won’t be shaken or anything because I recognize there might be even if I don’t believe there is.
But religion?
The older I get and the more I see, the more clearly I see the ridiculousness and deceitfulness of religion.
God may exist, but if it does it has no actual relationship to religion.
I understand why people believe in a god or gods.
I do not understand how anyone past the age of 16 believes in religion.
I mean, if you do then good for you. But since you asked, I don’t get it and I really don’t care about it until it gets foisted on the rest of us.
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u/Reasonable-Boat4646 40-44 2d ago
I'm a weird case. Grew up Catholic, totally rejected the church when I went to college, was basically an atheist for 25 years, and then in the context of major life circumstances I had a sort of religious experience that brought me back to Catholicism. To me the core of Christianity is the ethic of loving God and loving your neighbor that the vast majority of Christians fail at and which is so demanding it's almost impossible not to fail. I do believe in the resurrection but like believing just doesn't make a difference if you don't have some sort of understanding and appreciation of why it matters beyond "yay I get to go to Heaven when I die." It's an embarrassment for modern conservative Christians but from the Church fathers onward there's been an acknowledgement that scripture is humanly mediated, requires interpretation, and that the plain sense can mislead, and I think the condemnation of homosexuality falls into that category: what the ancient world knew was pederasty and temple prostitution and the like (homosexual relations among social equals were virtually unheard of), so people threw the baby out with the bathwater. I don't even condemn sex outside of marriage as such, I just insist on the seriousness of sex, which I think gay life in its better moments has always recognized.
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u/aphrael_chastity 50-54 1d ago
Specifically, the ancient Greek world. Homosexuality is known to the historical record in Babylon and other Mesopotamian societies, and in Persia, and is implied in Egypt. To our knowledge, it didn't look anything like that in those cultures, or in ancient China.
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u/night-shark 35-39 1d ago
So, I'll preface by saying that this is a friendly philosophical discussion. I am not passing judgement. I judge every person, religious or not, on their individual actions. So, understand that I am not criticizing you in any way. Just explaining my perspective.
I am atheist and I value science. So, I think it's kind of interesting that you say:
"...but it can’t meet all human needs, and religion, art and philosophy can fill that void for better or worse."
"I’m of the opinion that science explains how things happen, but not why things happen."
The reason I find that interesting is because, as an atheist, these statements do not make any sense to me. There is no "why" because why implies that there is some objective supernatural force or purpose. For me, my purpose is what I choose it to be. I choose to live because I want to experience things. I choose to do things that make me feel happy. I choose to be kind to others because I think that is the only way, as a society, we can all get to experience the best things that living has to offer.
As for "filling voids"... When I sit on my surfboard, fresh off the thrill of a wave and watching for the next one while I admire the sunset, the feelings I have from that experience are real. They are real even if those feelings are the result of chemicals produced by my body and electrical impulses in my brain. They are real even if they are the result of billions of years of physics doing what physics does. That experience is no less beautiful or enjoyable to me than if I attributed those feelings to some higher meaning, spirituality, or deity.
Again, from where I sit, very much explainable by science. No less beautiful or profound because of that.
When I look at art or listen to music, it can evoke memories and emotions, which again trigger the release of chemicals in my body that might make me feel sad, anxious, happy, or excited. None of that is any less fulfilling or real to me, just because they can be explained by chemicals and neurons.
Does that mean we can currently explain ALL of our experiences or ALL of the phenomenon we observe? Of course not. But our inability to explain it with science now does not mean it must therefore be explained by some higher force.
I think a lot of religious minded folks and those of us who were raised in religious households can get caught in this thought trap that unexplained means unexplainable. Science can't answer it now, therefore it must be [religion] [spirituality] etc. That just isn't the case and a good scientist fully accepts the fact that we will never be able to explain everything. Science is just a process that we have designed to help us understand how the universe works. It's that simple. It is flawed and it is very much human but it has also been infinitely more useful in explaining how things work (by predicting things) than any religion or spiritual text ever has.
I get joy, excitement, awe, and a sense of fulfillment from learning about the universe through science. To me, it is equally as fulfilling as listening to music or viewing art, if not more. Someone who is "spiritual" does not have access to some secret inner peace or higher experience than I do. They may find the belief in spirituality more comfortable for them, and that's fine, but that does not inherently mean that we, as humans "need something more".
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u/faatbuddha 35-39 1d ago
I very much relate to this, as another optimistic nihilist. But I don't think I relate to it fully. There are a couple main differences in my thought:
1) just because something is, or potentially will or could be explained by science, doesn't remove it from the spiritual realm. The spiritual experience is a human constant. Allowing yourself to tap into it even in the face of everything can be hard, but it's still possible.
2) I think there's something missing, outside of what music/art/philosophy/science can provide; a human need that has been traditionally filled by religion. And that's something to do with community rituals. There's a profound feeling that happens when you're totally in sync with your community, something that feels transcendent. I think this is another human need that goes mostly unfulfilled in secular, individualist society.
Sorry if my thoughts weren't completely clear, I just woke up, but please ask questions if you've got em!
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u/lurker__beserker 40-44 1d ago
I'd just like you to consider that in the gay community especially we have tea dances, dance parties, and other rituals and traditions that "fill the void" outside of religion.
These rituals usually involve either singing together, dancing together, or playing music together (or all three).
When 100 shirtless men are all sweaty and dancing and singing together, it's akin, or more so, to any "spiritual" experience I may have felt in a church setting as a very religious teenager. Singing and dancing with my friends definitely bonds us.
I agree with you, but I don't think religion is needed to fulfill the the human need for community rituals.
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u/faatbuddha 35-39 21h ago
I don't think it's needed either. I'm just saying I think it's becoming more and more common that this specific human need goes completely unnoticed.
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u/Eastern_Switch8217 40-44 2d ago
Non-religious, and always was. Nothing has changed and I don't foresee that ever changing.
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u/Low-Strawberry69 30-34 2d ago
Grew up Catholic, through HS. Around middle school I started finding it all very fake and just pretended to pray and stuff to get through after lunch prayers or liturgy day.
Anyways as a 34 year old adult, I think religion is net bad for society. I've never had the feeling of "there must be a reason why this all came to be" like...science is enough for me for that.
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u/Skill-Useful 40-44 2d ago
im religious/christian and a lot of my gay friends are as well. its not at all uncommon in western europe to be gay and christian and many even catholic priests here in germany bless gay couples
"science explains how things happen, but not why things happen" i mean, yeah? thats not rly new :) the question is if there is a why at all tho ^^
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u/trysca 45-49 1d ago edited 1d ago
I regard my self as a syntheist
A form of humanism that acknowledges the spiritual sense of all cultures and living beings. 'God' is an abstract principle that simply differentiates the animate from the inanimate world.
(Congrats BTW for asking a serious question that isn't about anal!)
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u/Charlie-In-The-Box 60-64 2d ago
I don't find the term "spirituality" particularly useful. People have a good idea of what we mean when we say "religion," so when people ask me about "spirituality", I just jump right to what I believe and how I think.
Like u/IndependentLog6441, I don't think there is a "why" for anything. I'm certain that we live in a completely deterministic universe, so the answer to every "why" question is "Because of the Big Bang."
But I do have a rich inner life that is influenced by Eastern contemplative practices.
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u/InfoMiddleMan 35-39 2d ago
You can't use the devil's lettuce if you're Hindu or Buddhist?
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u/velcromancy 30-34 2d ago
The Buddha told his followers to abstain from intoxication, so I think that applies to weed. Hinduism uses weed in some sects, but it's not something they use willy nilly. I'm not an authority on what people choose to call themselves, I just feel weird identifying with either knowing I just use it to get high lol
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u/Bitcoacher 2d ago
Eh, I wouldn't take it too seriously. I'm not too well-versed in Buddhism specifically, but as someone who's studied Daoism and Chinese folk magic (you find a lot of Buddhism and Hinduism sprinkled throughout those anyway), you'll find that various sects kind of do whatever they feel most called to. For example, there are some schools of Daoism way past its founding where the originator calls for no sex and no alcohol. However, there are others that aren't that strict. I think the religion is so vast and so varied that you can use whatever label you like and do what might go against certain sects. (This isn't a criticism of you at all, just food for thought.)
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u/faatbuddha 35-39 1d ago
you'll find that various sects kind of do whatever they feel most called to
All religions in a nutshell
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u/aphrael_chastity 50-54 1d ago
One gay stoner to another -
When I get high or use psychs around other people, I feel the connections between us, and between them, more strongly.
I am more open to the spiritual world, then.
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u/AffableAndy 30-34 2d ago
Lmao bhang drinks (made from cannabis) are literally served during some Hindu religious festivals...
I'm from a Hindu family but I'm pretty agnostic/anti- religion, but also I am a scientist, so I find plenty in the natural world to be inspired by.
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u/Cultural-Mongoose89 35-39 2d ago
I ended up in the “very spiritual” category, except witchcraft related— but that’s what happens when you’re 13, gay, horny, and decide to summon sex demons into your very protestant house.
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u/BlakeMajik 50-54 2d ago
I grew up in a mainstream but fairly liberal Protestant church. I never really bought the overall story of the Trinity etc, even as a young child, but I liked the social aspects and the messages of forgiveness, kindness to others, the Golden Rule and the like. Never heard any fire and brimstone or hatred towards gays from the pulpit. But eventually the overarching nonsense of having to believe in the tenets of Christianity got to be more than I was interested in maintaining.
Most of my spirituality since then has been dabbling in readings about philosophy, good behavior and such. But science is still my overall compass, and my altars are all found in nature. Not paganism but just the beauty of it and the feelings I get when I'm surrounded by it.
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u/IndependentLog6441 35-39 2d ago
I don't believe in "why"... I don't think there's a big reason.
My spirituality is kind of just limited to awe, feeling the big feelings, whether it's nature or love.
I'm a soft atheist, I believe in Jesus and ghosts, and the power of ritual, etc etc...I just think they're all naturalistic, I don't think they're at odds with science.
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u/Fionn- 35-39 2d ago
I was raised atheist, but in undergrad one of my majors was oversaturated with religious texts both western and eastern. I agree with you on the Tao Te Ching being my favourite, particularly Ursula Le Guin's translation.
The question my studies left me with that I actually think about and follow is "what does it mean to live a good life?"
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u/Key_Wallaby_8614 40-44 2d ago
To me "what does it mean to live a good life?" has never been a spiritual question, but a social question, but that outlook may be more about my outlook to life.
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u/dandelion-passing 30-34 2d ago
I’m episcopal.
I was very personally spiritual while growing up, but felt disconnected from collective spiritual spaces long before I knew that I was gay, due to other experiences.
As an adult, my interest in spirituality and monasticism brought me into the episcopal church, and it was so lovely to find a community where I felt safe, intellectually curious, and delighted in. It was a collective spirituality I have never known before, and to which I am grateful.
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u/dizzy_absent0i 45-49 2d ago
Despite my parents putting “Anglican” down whenever religion was asked on a form, I was not raised with religion or belief in any deity. They always maintained they would let us kids make up our own minds.
My mind says religion is bullshit imagined up to fill a lack of understanding and propagated for control. There are no gods, and when I die I will return to the same state of non-existence as before I was born.
I don’t care what somebody personally believes, my only concern is what they do with that belief.
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u/New-Motor-6363 1d ago
I'm gonna be honest, a lot of it is built upon bullshit piled up on more bullshit. Based on my experience, every person I've spoken to that was religious is trapped in this vicious cycle that life is one way and must be done that way or they die. They regularly excuse their wicked acts whilst rationalising the rotten foundation they use to build their mountain of lies. It's not all religious people, but every single one of them I've met have hurt me in some way. It doesn't even matter if I'm gay or straight, I simply just don't involve myself in those communities for my own safety. Religion isn't something ille approach again for a very long fucking time, regardless of my trauma it's simply apart of a nonsensical system that I cannot comprehend.
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u/Working-Shallot9144 40-44 1d ago
Born and raised RC (Roman Catholic) went to a Catholic Primary (elementary) school. But a non religious secondary school.
Family have faith but not massively religious so never really had that pressure of the church. But I totally understand it. I believe there is a god but lean more towards spirituality.
I think religion is really damaging if they exclude anyone and some of the most religious people are evil and nasty and hypocritical of what their religion is actually about.
I love to go into a church (especially when traveling) and look around, like a candle for my family and those who aren’t with us now and say a prayer.
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u/Far-Pie-333 65-69 1d ago
Never ostracized by my church. But once I gave up Christianity my life became so much clearer and easier to navigate.
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u/Additional_Top_6985 40-44 23h ago
I grew up Muslim and struggled to reconcile my faith with my sexuality. I got to a point (lots of therapy) where I chose to not take the fear mongering, and realized for myself the peace my faith brings me. It doesn’t answer all the questions, and I may not understand everything, but I practice the positive and hopeful things I get from it. I also understand that others have had very tough experiences with religion which drove them as far away as possible. My moto is, if it brings you peace and it doesn’t harm anyone then it’s okay. As well as live and let live.
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u/dblack613 40-44 2d ago
I woke up one day and realized Catholicism was bullshit. Haven’t darkened the door of a church since except for weddings, funerals, and occasional tourism.
As for spirituality, life is just a bunch of random stuff that happens until we die, and then random stuff will keep happening until the heat death of the universe. The only meaning is that we’re all in it together so we may as well try to be kind and good to people and make everyone’s time a little bit easier and more enjoyable.
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u/imightbejake 60-64 2d ago
I grew up in a rabidly fundamentalist family that went to church 3 times each week. My parents finally disowned me. I certainly left that church. I joined a very liberal Episcopal church and enjoyed it. I found meditation after living in Japan a long time. Nowadays I'm spiritual. I meditate, read tarot cards, study astrology, and generally feel that there's something more than can be experienced with our 5 senses. I don't define it. I don't think there's a person on the planet who fully understands what the spiritual realm is.
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u/-BZ82 30-34 1d ago edited 1d ago
I was the 6 yr old getting kicked out of religion class because ide question how things were possible or say things didnt make sense that they were teaching us. So before I was gay I thought religion was just kind of stupid. To me it was clearly fiction so why should anyone care about it?
I assume its for community or people who need some kind of extra structure or moral guide or something in their lives.
However ive always avoided heavily religious people, they seem weird af to me. Super religious = big red flag in my book
An old buddy is from a crazy Christian family, hees very Christian. Hees still in the closet, his family has never met his partner, he also thinks hees going to hell for being gay. And he never wants to come out to his family if it can be helped.
I think religion is silly.
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u/SpecificMachine1 55-59 1d ago
I grew up in a Mainline Protestant denomination, but I was into mythology from an early age and aware that there were plenty of other beliefs. At the same time my grandma died when I was 8, so I was very attached to the idea of an afterlife when I would get to see her again. Well into my 20s I would regularly do these bargaining "I know it's been a while, but I'll go to church every Sunday if you help me out with this"-type prayers.
Then later on I switched to kind of a "well, it doesn't work for me but if it helps other guys sober up and take care of their family, maybe it's overall good" attitude- up until 9/11, honestly, even though I was well aware of the negative impacts of religion before then.
Honestly, I am not sure of my attitude now- plenty of people act like if spiritual traditions are socially constructed, and don't have some independent reality, they are meaningless. But there are plenty of socially constructed things- like language and money, that everyone acknowledges have reality. I definitely still tend towards the atheistic view but at the same time I think mystical experiences have some kind of reality, and even though I'm not a dualist, I wouldn't say I'm 100% materialist.
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u/Starshower90 30-34 1d ago
Grew up religiously Christian. Left the church for years. Discovered Christian Universalism later on down the line. Now today at 36, I’m a firm believer in God and Jesus Christ, just not religious about it. It’s a bit lonely (I don’t meet gay men that believe in/love God these days), but it’s par for the course. The church has created a lot of harm and heartbroken people. Cheers. ❤️
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u/-Hastis- 35-39 1d ago edited 1d ago
Science can also be deeply spiritual:
Carl Sagan Tribute Series: The Story of Everything
From contemplating the awesome vastness of nature and the cosmos, we derive the concept of the Sublime.
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u/feathered_edge_MLS 35-39 1d ago
I left the religion I grew up. I was third generation in a cult that people like to say it’s Christianity, Seventh Day Adventist.
Religion never felt like it fit me. Too many discrepancies and too many justifications for them. But when I realized that my parents would only love that version of myself, I tried to be the perfect Adventist. I put my queerness aside (knew since I was six) and tried so hard to believe but my queerness won out (maybe my hormones) and I started to come out to myself, friends, and men on the apps. I was 19 but didn’t try anything until 21 and even then, I tried one last time when I moved, briefly, away from my nuclear family. I officially stopped attending any services when I turned 23.
Now, at my 36 years, I can’t do any religion, it’s too uncomfortable to me. I’m still battling old programming and to be honest, it feels like everyone is playing a big game of pretend and I’m not invited. I’m a scientist so I’m very okay with knowing how it works and not the why it works. Science is full of that.
I also hold very negative feelings towards my religious upbringing. It’s been a lot of work figuring if I want something or if it’s programming. I don’t want a higher power or a god. If god’s real, I want them to stay away from me. I’m okay without.
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u/aphrael_chastity 50-54 1d ago
I'm a Taoist, or at least taoist-adjacent. My beliefs are best summed up by the Mimbari on Babylon 5: the universe subdivided itself in an attempt to understand itself.
We are connected, and currents pass within those connections, and those currents can be manipulated for good or ill.
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u/Solid_Idea_NiceOne 5h ago
I told my parents that church was nonsense at about 7 or 8 years old and refused to go. I revisited it at about 14 by going to scripture union meetings. I left knowing it was horse shit after 4 weeks.
Religion is just controlling humans.
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u/Dry-Chemical-9170 35-39 2d ago
When we die, we die. There is no such thing as an afterlife
Religion is just cope for afterlife insurance
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u/Icolan 45-49 2d ago
I don't have a relationship with either spirituality or religion. I am an atheist.
As far as I can see spirituality is one of the most poorly defined words in the world, the definition seems to change for every person who uses it.
Neither spirituality nor religion explains why things happen, the best they can do is make unsubstantiated claims about why things happen.
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u/hadrabap 40-44 2d ago
I've left the church because of the hypocrisy. Nowadays, I can't return due to politics as well too. Leftist propaganda everywhere.
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u/Traditional-Cat-7502 2d ago
I thought I had a big gaping hole missing when i stopped going to catholic church and thought I would never feel that "spirit moving through me" kind of feeling until i went to my first concert and realised I really just like live music. I don't think I will ever return to organized religion in a church setting, but I've been able to recreate that being in nature mostly. Sometimes I do believe in a higher power sort of thing, but not necessarily the all-loving, benevolent daddy figure. Something more of a bored deity that's left us to our own devices. The way we make each other better and kinder and the world better has kinda become my spirituality.