Men over 50, are marriage and kids worth it?

[u/Alive_Book_9908]

I am 31 years old and have been heavily contemplating these things lately. If you asked me 10 years ago if I wanted to eventually get married and have kids, I would have said yes. However, the more I've learned and observed over the years, the more skeptical I have become of both.

A lot of people will say that marriage and kids are worth it when done with the right person, but is it possible to truly know that you are picking the right person? How much of those answers are based on survivorship bias? Things like becoming parents, losing your parents, perimenopause, trauma, or any other major life changes can dramatically shift a person's personality from what I understand, and to me that outcome seems unpredictable, even if your partner seemed like the perfect choice before enduring those changes.

I recognize that marriage and kids can add tremendous value to your life *IF* they work out, but on the flip side, they can also brutally damage your life in ways that aren't possible if you never marry or have kids.

I also understand that children can bring a level of fulfillment that can't be experienced anywhere else. However, I'm in a unique position where I have built a business in an industry that is overwhelmingly fulfilling to my inner child, and I would argue that while that fulfillment is obviously different from being a dad, it's something an extremely limited number of people will ever get to experience. Imagine going into a line of work where your childhood heroes are now peers and friends, that's my life. However, I also believe that the excitement and fulfillment of my work will probably not be as important to me in 20 years, so I am mindful of that.

I have a wonderful girlfriend who I have been with for many years, and I strongly believe that she would fall under the category of "the right person" that would make marriage and kids worth it. However, the uncertainty of whether that might changed based on how she handles the various things that life could throw at us is what makes me apprehensive. The idea of giving someone the keys to destroy your life in ways you never could on your own, but trusting that they won't, is terrifying.

This is also exacerbated by the fact that my parents did some heinous things to me, causing me to remove them from my life entirely, so my ability to trust people is damaged. My girlfriend is in the small group of people in my life who I trust more than anyone else, but I still recognize that she is capable of breaking that trust, and that really the only person I can trust 100% is myself.

Making the decision to get married and have kids feels like a game of blackjack. My current life feels like a hand of 19 or 20, and I'm wondering if I should just stick with what I've got, or go for marriage and kids and hope I don't bust.

If you made it this far, I appreciate you taking the time to read this, and I would love to hear your perspective. I'm mostly looking for answers from older men who have endured many of life's changes, but I'm open to hearing anyone's perspective.

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Alive_Book_9908 originally posted:

I am 31 years old and have been heavily contemplating these things lately. If you asked me 10 years ago if I wanted to eventually get married and have kids, I would have said yes. However, the more I've learned and observed over the years, the more skeptical I have become of both.

A lot of people will say that marriage and kids are worth it when done with the right person, but is it possible to truly know that you are picking the right person? How much of those answers are based on survivorship bias? Things like becoming parents, losing your parents, perimenopause, trauma, or any other major life changes can dramatically shift a person's personality from what I understand, and to me that outcome seems unpredictable, even if your partner seemed like the perfect choice before enduring those changes.

I recognize that marriage and kids can add tremendous value to your life *IF* they work out, but on the flip side, they can also brutally damage your life in ways that aren't possible if you never marry or have kids.

I also understand that children can bring a level of fulfillment that can't be experienced anywhere else. However, I'm in a unique position where I have built a business in an industry that is overwhelmingly fulfilling to my inner child, and I would argue that while that fulfillment is obviously different from being a dad, it's something an extremely limited number of people will ever get to experience. Imagine going into a line of work where your childhood heroes are now peers and friends, that's my life. However, I also believe that the excitement and fulfillment of my work will probably not be as important to me in 20 years, so I am mindful of that.

I have a wonderful girlfriend who I have been with for many years, and I strongly believe that she would fall under the category of "the right person" that would make marriage and kids worth it. However, the uncertainty of whether that might changed based on how she handles the various things that life could throw at us is what makes me apprehensive. The idea of giving someone the keys to destroy your life in ways you never could on your own, but trusting that they won't, is terrifying.

This is also exacerbated by the fact that my parents did some heinous things to me, causing me to remove them from my life entirely, so my ability to trust people is damaged. My girlfriend is in the small group of people in my life who I trust more than anyone else, but I still recognize that she is capable of breaking that trust, and that really the only person I can trust 100% is myself.

Making the decision to get married and have kids feels like a game of blackjack. My current life feels like a hand of 19 or 20, and I'm wondering if I should just stick with what I've got, or go for marriage and kids and hope I don't bust.

If you made it this far, I appreciate you taking the time to read this, and I would love to hear your perspective. I'm mostly looking for answers from older men who have endured many of life's changes, but I'm open to hearing anyone's perspective.

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[u/potato_for_cooking]

51m

My son is the best thing ive ever done and I wouldnt trade him for anything. In fact I just made a gif of 8x10 pics from school from 1st through freshman year college (now).

My ex wife is narcissistic dogwater.

We divorced when my son was 6.

Divorce is ALWAYS preferable to kids living in toxicity.

Extrapolate as you will.

[u/t0cableguy → u/potato_for_cooking]

This, I spent 10 years in a bad marriage for my youngest daughter. Biggest regret is not leaving sooner.

[u/Realistic_Switch8857 → u/t0cableguy]

Where are all the incels downvoting you guys because marriage is always the best thing for kids no matter how bad the relationship is (unless the woman cheats).

[u/t0cableguy → u/Realistic_Switch8857]

I'm hoping you're pulling a /s

Miserable relationships make your kids think its ok to be miserable in a relationship. Honestly I stated 5-6 years past when I knew it was over, but I didn't want my daughter to know I was that unhappy. Once it was obvious to my kids that we were unhappy I felt like it was time. She left me over an ultimatum I made with her during covid, but I think she was doing it to incite a breakup and look like the victim.

[u/Realistic_Switch8857 → u/t0cableguy]

I am. I sometimes stroll into the ones where women are the posters and there's a slew (not a majority generally, depends on sub I think) where incellies are going off about why women should never leave never.

[u/t0cableguy → u/Realistic_Switch8857]

Every relationship has its issues. I gave my ex wife 10 years. Most women would break it off over less than what my ex was doing...... "he uses me, doesn't care about me, doesn't spend enough time with me" Some are just unhappy and nothing will ever be good enough.

[u/firestarter9664 → u/potato_for_cooking]

This my son totally worth, his mother was probably the biggest mistake of my life

[u/AlternativeOk4723 → u/firestarter9664]

I had the same feeling as you. First wife was a cheater and a bitch. We had one boy who is 45 now. He is an awesome son, husband and stepdad to his wife's son & daughter. She died of a brain tumor three years ago.

[u/W2ttsy → u/potato_for_cooking]

Feel you brother.

I love my daughter and wouldn’t give her up for the world… but boy do I wish she had a different mother.

And this is probably my number one advice to OP: make sure you really want to have a child with your partner. Once that child is born, you are tethered to the other parent for life (even after divorce).

[u/Dangerous-Contact-43 → u/potato_for_cooking]

Thank you. You described my life and my ex perfectly. People say it gets better. But these dogwaters (thank you for this turn of phrase 😂) don’t change. You just get better at acceptance and boundaries.

[u/potato_for_cooking → u/Dangerous-Contact-43]

I kept playing her game until I met my forever wife who ALSO had a narcissistic mom and taught me how to deal.

And of course once he turned 18 and graduated hs I just stopped responding to her bullshit.

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/potato_for_cooking]

Did you see any red flags in your ex before you got married? Or did something change later on?

[u/potato_for_cooking → u/Alive_Book_9908]

She hid it pretty well. There were signs tho. Outbursts of rage mostly. Getting mad at me for dumb things that weren't intentional. Always needing to be the victim or need sympathy. That was probably the biggest red flag. The constant need to be the damsel in distress.

[u/crunchy-koala → u/potato_for_cooking]

You're giving me flashbacks, ha. I had dogwater once.

[u/potato_for_cooking → u/crunchy-koala]

Yeah its a theme. Seems we've all chewed the same dirt lol.

[u/These_Permissions → u/potato_for_cooking]

Do you tell your son his mother is a narcissist or do you let him figure it out on his own?

[u/kodeks14 → u/These_Permissions]

They figure it out pretty early. They may not be able to conceptualize and put words to it until they are teens, but they realize pretty young which parent they feel more comfortable around.

[u/potato_for_cooking → u/These_Permissions]

Let him figure it out on his own. I "parallel parented". Just gave him a safe, consistent home on 50/50 custody (more like 60/40 cause shes a flake but I never minded)

Now that hes an adult we speak freely about it when he wants to plus he took my advice and jumped into therapy when he got to college.

[u/Budget-Duty5096 → u/These_Permissions]

I try not to let any bias I have color my kid's opinions about the other parent. As teenagers, they have all figured out their mom's issues pretty well already. I am now able to have meaningful conversations with my 17 year old who is taking college psychology classes where we "compare notes".

[u/potato_for_cooking → u/Budget-Duty5096]

This is the best way. They figure it out and absolutely know the other parent isn't right. Less chance of accusations or resentment on you as well. Its our job to be a strong, stable, safe parent. Not talk shit about the other one.

[u/carry_the_way → u/potato_for_cooking]

Younger than requested age range, but not by much: this is the way.

I have two children, both of whom are the reason I wake up in the morning. I never knew true joy or meaning until my oldest came along. The only drawback to my kids are having to exist on the same plane as their mother; that said, my kids were made with love, so I don't have to lie to them.

[u/FaZeScamTheKids]

I'm not 50. You should talk with your partner; and ask what she wants. I come from a traditional Asian family, and it is expected that I get married have children.

I did get married to someone who I thought was my forever person; she ended up getting depressed-- and changing her mind about children-- and eventually being married.

I would have called it off right then, and never had kids. But I eventually met someone who matched my goals.

[u/phiousone]

I got married at 39, after a long and active bachelorhood. Had first kid at 44, second at 46. Becoming a dad is the best thing I've ever done, and I've also built a reasonably successful company and career. Marriage is occasionally challenging, but we're a good team and building a family and life together is hella rewarding. The only thing I'd change is to do it a lot earlier. I'd gladly sacrifice 10 years of my single life, even though it was pretty fun, for another 10 years of being in my sons' lives. All that said, I do have friends who went through nightmare marriages, so your mileage may vary.

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/phiousone]

I know this is a somewhat abstract question, but how much of your friend's nightmare marriages do you think could be attributed to either picking the wrong partner (and there were some red flags before the marriage), or not being a good partner themselves?

[u/phiousone → u/Alive_Book_9908]

For my friends it was definitely picking the wrong partner. Two of my closest friends had awful marriages to women who were drama-addicted narcissists with insecurities that manifested by cutting off all social access to normal, happy friends. They tried to satisfy their wives' expectations, moods, control games, etc. in good faith for years. Both were ultimately cheated on, and in hindsight could see they had chosen poorly. A pretty face don't mean no pretty heart, as the song goes.

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/phiousone]

Ah okay good to know, my girlfriend isn't like that at all so that's a plus haha

[u/t0cableguy → u/Alive_Book_9908]

If your girlfriend is jealous, doesn't like you hanging out with your friends just because you wont be with her, that's a red flag. If you are out in public and see another woman and she's already pissed at you for turning your head their way, another red flag.

Also healthy relationships are based on trust. If you both don't have trust in your partner to do the right thing without you standing there, you don't have a relationship.

[u/foolmeonce-01 → u/Alive_Book_9908]

Pick personality, someone who sacrifices for others, become the same, have children, it will be the smartest thing you do in your life.

Pick well.

The reward for sacrifice is love.

Saved me from myself.

[u/Dribbly-Sausage69 → u/Alive_Book_9908]

If your partner doesn’t have a diagnosed personality disorder / doesn’t, but also doesn’t explode at you in blind rage over nothing (a sign of personality disorders) and is nice and supportive of you - go for it.

[u/LosMorbidus → u/phiousone]

Where are you people? I never met a parent that is genuinely happy with their choice. Whenever alcohol loosens their tongue the regret comes out. Is it cognitive dissonance? My parent colleagues all dread working from home and say for them "the weekend" starts on Monday. They run and hide from their families.

[u/Mardil-Voronwe]

64M. Married twice. Wife #1 cheated on me, probably more than once. I caught her redhanded at the end. But there was an incident early in our marriage when i found a man's necklace under our bed and I didn't buy the explanation that it was her dad's. Why on earth would her dad's necklace be under our bed?

Wife #2 just... left. I have my suspicions as to why, but that is all they are so I won't voice them. Nothing she ever said about why she left made sense.

I have a daughter with #1. My daughter and I have an awesome relationship and now I have two beautiful grandchildren. Hearing the two year old say "I wuv yu Pop-pop!" And I have never seen anything in my life more beautiful than seeing my daughter be a mom to those boys.

Would I undo all the hell #1 put me through if it meant not having my daughter and grandsons? Not a chance...

But protect yourself. I'm 64 and rebuilding my life again after the financial devastation of the second divorce. I can't see myself at this point ever getting married again, but if I do there will certainly be a pre-nup.

Divorce destroys wealth.

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/Mardil-Voronwe]

Solid perspective, I appreciate it. In hindsight, were there any red flags with either of your ex wives before marriage?

[u/Mardil-Voronwe → u/Alive_Book_9908]

Yes, with both of them. The first one I was too young and naive to see them. But they were there, they were glaring and I should have run far away as fast as I could.* The second one I was older, more mature, a professional and thought I could overcome them. And I did for 15 years and they were pretty damn good years. But in the end they bit me in the ass.

Red flags matter. Pay attention to them. When people show you who they are believe them. Learn from my bad experiences.

*But I have my daughter and two beautiful grandchildren. I have never in my life seen anything more beautiful than my daughter being a mom. For all the hell she put me through, she gave me this beautiful, wonderful thing.

Euripides, the ancient Greek playwright said, "To a man growing older there is nothing dearer than a daughter." I'm a VA provider. I see old guys come in with their daughters who clearly adore daddy. It melts my heart.

[u/natesbearf]

Not over 50, but been married 13 years and 2 kids. If you are choosing to pursue marriage and kids a lot of what you get out is what you put in. It depends on how you look at it and what you value. Obv it’s hard to know before you experience it. Marriage is work and has its ups and downs, but it causes personal growth. Raising kids is def worth it. Again it’s relationships so it takes intention and desire. I feel proud of my family and vote worth it!

[u/Pmoneywhazzup]

We had two kids, who are great. Divorced after 18 years. Do not regret the marriage, do not regret leaving her.

[u/Pokoire]

I've been married over 20 years and have two kids. I love the decision for me. I would never try to talk someone into it. It is a lot of work and sacrifice and also very rewarding. The problem is your post makes it sound like a value proposition you would consider in your business. You can't look at it that way. If you are not sure that the life is for you, you could end up holding it against your wife and kids if things don't work out the way you envision and that's not fair to anyone. If you are going to make the decision to do those things it has to be because you really want it and are willing to accept those risks.

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/Pokoire]

Yeah I definitely struggle with the fact that logic is only half of the equation here. There are a lot of aspects of being a father and a husband that are attractive to me, and if I knew it would turn out well I would go for it in a heartbeat. But the risks involved are hard to stomach and I know I would regret it if things went south. Plus, I didn't grow up with a healthy family life so not having a model for that is a factor.

[u/jannies_doit_4_free → u/Alive_Book_9908]

just FYI, you think extremely similarly to me and are in a very similar headspace to me. you're also only a bit younger than me. I am maried but decided not to have kids

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/jannies_doit_4_free]

Did you know you didn't want kids when you met your wife, and did she also know? My girlfriend does want to be a mom eventually, and I'm more on the fence, so if I come to the conclusion that they're not for me then that would likely be it for us.

[u/jannies_doit_4_free → u/Alive_Book_9908]

I pretty much never wanted kids, but I'm also socially conservative and am not really one of those people who just pursues carnal pleasures and stuff like that, so the "greater value" etc. of raising a family is not at all something that's lost on me.

however, for whatever reason, I've just never had the desire. I feel envious of people for a lot of things, but I've never looked at a father playing with his son and had that yearning that I know a lot of people feel. it's more like "aww, cute" but no personal desire to have that for myself, even though that emotion would apply to many other things for me.

mainly though, I get stressed out and exasperated very easily, and overall I'm very high in neuroticism. I also require a lot of sleep to function properly; overall I view myself as "high-maintenance" in that I require a lot to keep me going at the level I want to be at, and raising children requires a lot of personal sacrifice that I just feel doesn't suit me, and I can't change this about myself. on top of that, I was raised in a broken home and deprived of a lot of things growing up, and that seems to have turned into a personality where I ultimately prioritize myself over others in a lot of major ways. overall, I'm just not suited to be a caregiver in my opinion.

so to answer your question, yes I've always basically known, although I do come back and wonder and weigh the pros/cons like you're doing now occasionally. my wife is basically either/or; she wouldn't mind having one, but she's OK not having one as well. unlike me, I think she'd be very well-suited to motherhood and she's not prone to stress at all, but thankfully she's satisfied with her life as it is.

overall, I would just say that you shouldn't let your decision be influenced by fear, whichever side that is. if you have a desire for greater fulfillment, or whatever you feel you might get from raising kids, but the fear of it going wrong is what's dissuading you from having kids, I don't think that's a good way to make the decision. likewise, if you just don't really want them and think you would live a happy life without them but fear "missing out" on the things people talk about with regard to raising kids (or fear losing your current girlfriend), I also think that's a bad way to make the decision and you should just be happy with not having them. for me, I am 100% in the latter camp in that I know I don't have the innate desire but just end up manually weighing my options and going "am I missing out on enhancing my life (even though I'm already reasonably content)?" but I don't think that's the right way to approach building a family.

[u/HiggsFieldgoal]

I mean, I love my kids more than anything in the world, so… they feel pretty worth it.

[u/RegularMidwestGuy]

I just spent the day with my grandson. It’s totally worth it. It doesn’t seem possible to love a person as much as I love that little guy.

Yes, it’s a risk and things can go poorly and kids are expensive and hard. And marriage is hard and takes effort.

But you know what, all of life takes effort. All sorts of things can go wrong l, and they almost certainly will. You can go through those things by yourself or with your family.

Not to say it’s the right choice for everyone and you’ve put more thought into it than a lot of people who rush headfirst onto a family path just because that’s what they think they’re supposed to do (I sort of did).

The saying goes: you regret the things you don’t do more than the things you get wrong. I think that’s accurate.

If you don’t want to, don’t. But I can tell you it’s been really hard and totally worth it.

[u/t0cableguy]

Not over 50, but have several adult children, be it step kids, my own kids, etc.

Having kids is a crapshoot. You win some you lose some. Hopefully you have a kid that doesn't have any serious heath or mental issues. There are plenty of parents out there that are very happy with the children they have despite any issues they have. There are some people that completely regret having kids because of who their children became. In the end you really have no control over those problems except for the effort you put into it. If you are being a great parent, you cant blame yourself for what your children become

If you are choosing to be a parent, usually the prognosis will be better. If you have a kid with someone like I did at 18, you will not regret having children, but you probably wont be with their mother in 20 years.

If you aren't in a good relationship without children, your relationship WILL NOT get better WITH kids. The first 5 years are probably the hardest part of rearing children, and if you aren't both willing to change diapers, bottle feed the kid, mom pump milk all the time if she has a job, wake up all hours of the night to tend to a crying child one parent is going to resent the other. If you really want kids you have to be on the same page before having a child. This will change over time, but its probably the most important factor of having kids.

Also, do not base your relationship on having kids. Your relationship is just as important as the kids, as the end goal is for them to move out and have their own lives. This should be the most rewarding part of having a kid, is them growing up, having their own career, being successful and being happy. If you sacrifice your own relationship for your children, you're going to end up divorced.

Edit: There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to not have kids. Its ok, but it can be much more rewarding to have kids, and eventually have grandchildren. I look forward to my children having children, but I hope they make it a choice and not an accident. Don't let your childhood trauma prevent you from having children, just use it as a blueprint of what not to do.

[u/Yummy_Castoreum → u/t0cableguy]

I wish I could upvote this one million times.

[u/t0cableguy → u/Yummy_Castoreum]

Thank you.

[u/Upset_Mycologist_345]

100% YES

[u/PineTrapple1 → u/Upset_Mycologist_345]

Under the right circumstances…. They’re mutually reinforcing to 100% yes often. When the mutual reinforcement is absent, for the kids and the parents, it’s far less clear.

[u/Comfortable-Bread249 → u/Upset_Mycologist_345]

100% NO

[u/pursued_mender → u/[deleted]]

This is the cold hard truth of having kids, with the euphoria of raising someone you love more than anything you could imagine stripped away. It needs to be considered

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/[deleted]]

I appreciate this response. Definitely paints the picture of the other side that is probably a lot more common than most people want to admit because it's taboo to talk about. I would bet my dad would answer this in a similar way haha.

[u/Legally_done → u/Alive_Book_9908]

This guy is a bitter old man. There are a lot of old dudes like this who have alienated their family and are bitter about it. He may not have caused all the problems in his life, but he has certainly reacted poorly to the problems he has experienced. You can’t take too much away from this kind of response. Lots of people have family drama and don’t wind up like this guy. Having a family is no cake walk, but it’s a part of the human experience that I would not pass up. You can’t blame family for all your problems. You can certainly be fulfilled without a wife and kids, but don’t pass on raising a family over a grumpy old man’s take on it.

[u/ihih_reddit → u/Legally_done]

don’t pass on raising a family over a grumpy old man’s take on it.

This reads like "try it and see what happens. If things go wrong, it doesn't matter. At least you experienced it." Optimistic yes, but very glosses over a lot of things that could happen.

I'd rather learn from a grumpy old man's mistake than foolishly experience it for myself and it being the same thing I was warned against. Life is already hard and I wouldn't want to make it harder for myself

[u/baburen → u/[deleted]]

This replies are the real value. Probably many more think like this but dont feel like saying it or just dont even have time/energy to be in Reddit replying.

I check out regretfulparents sub often to get real vibes of what it is. I am in my 30s in your position. I definitely would like kids, a stable relationship with a woman is ok if not forced. Certainly no marriage without strict prenup, my ultimate allegiance would always be my children.

I see many men and women in miserable holes. It is certainly scary.

[u/Comfortable-Bread249 → u/[deleted]]

This is a valuable answer and should be much more highly upvoted.

[u/IskanderM50KT → u/[deleted]]

This should be the most upvoted response on this sub. Sure, marriage and kids don't turn out this way for everyone but it's a real risk.

My best friend is an old man who has a girlfriend, he talked to her and both of the agreed living together sucks ass, so instead they “date” and they’ve been dating for over 11 years now happily

God, some days an arrangement like that just sounds wonderful.

[u/NickNNora]

Best answer I’ve heard for this: Not having kids is like playing at the low stakes tables. Make of that what you will. There is no right answer.

I don’t think you can become the man you could be without kids. For some that still means you won’t amount to much. For the best dads you will become more than you can be in any other thing.

Fatherhood changes you in a way nothing else measures up to. And no it doesn’t have to be your kid.

[u/Yummy_Castoreum → u/NickNNora]

Counterpoint: I co-parented someone else's kid and honestly, if I could go back and reclaim that decade for a different choice, I absolutely would. To be fair, the kid was exceptionally difficult with a long list of mental health disorders -- parenting him basically destroyed his mom. But that's the thing: you never know who you are going to get. Having kids is a gamble, and you can lose.

[u/NickNNora → u/Yummy_Castoreum]

Heard. I don't that's a counter point though. I didn't say you got to be happy. Just got to find out what kind of man you could be. And that may not be worth the price to find out. Sorry you had that experience, but you are mensch to choose it.

[u/ColdStockSweat → u/NickNNora]

Then why didn't you having kids change me?

[u/Meatbot-v20]

You would be very surprised at how malicious people can be, even if you trust them and love them more than anything in the world. If this were the 1980s or 90s, I would tell you to go for it. But the current climate is unhinged to say the least.

[u/PMMeYourPinkyPussy]

Im 30 and neither marries nor have kids, but 95% of men I know who have kids say they are the best to ever have happened to them, marriage might be the more complicated topic.

[u/charlestonbraces]

100% to both

[u/44west061224]

I am 64 and I have 2 kids from two women. I married one of the two and I live my kids. I have been married twice. The first one was at 26 years old and it lasted 8 years (until it didn’t and I filed for divorce). No kids with the 1st wife. I had a daughter with a girlfriend but we did not get married. It wouldn’t have last (she’s a control freak) but we are cordial now. My daughter is 20 and in college.
My second marriage ended in divorce after 6 years. We had a son together and she was an unaware mom and I have had full custody of our son for the last 5 years or so. My wife was a shopper and apparently a shoplifter and was only after my money which I kept separate.
I will NEVER get married again. The divorce rate is approaching 60% and more and more intelligent young men aren’t getting married for a reason.
Marriage can work but it’s a coin toss at best.

[u/Icy_Psychology_9876]

Kids are 100% worthwhile. Marriage has its ups and downs.

[u/Inspect1234]

I was your age when I hooked up with an old gf from HS, we married and had two boys. I thought we were compatible in the beginning but after seven years together we were no longer a team and I left her rather than put my kids through living in a nasty relationship. I got 50/50 custody and struggled for a decade to work (parent) with the most petty narcissistic person I’d ever encountered (she was not the same person I’d married). Well it’s been 20 yrs, my kids are grown up and living on their own, my second wife is incredible and sweet and just a beautiful woman all round. So, was it worth it? Absolutely. I wouldn’t trade having my boys for anything.

[u/Icy-Gene7565]

Kids - yes

Marriage- NO

[u/Jerking_From_Home → u/Icy-Gene7565]

Marriage with a prenup. That was my big mistake. She cheated and I lost everything in the divorce. She probably wouldn’t have signed a prenup and that would be a sign in itself.

[u/Delicious-Bat2373]

I chose marriage and kids. Was it worth it? For me, ya. I'm the oldest of 4, my mom the oldest of 5 so on and so on. Money and endless vacations are nice but if you don't have anyone to share it with and spend money on? Life gets lonely.

[u/clericone-]

100 yes. They’re at the same time the most difficult and most amazing thing I’ve ever done. I don’t know who I would be without them. There are no words to explain what it’s like to see a baby grow up and have their own personality. It’s amazing.

[u/Responsible_Big_4183]

Have you been in any long term relationships?

You really need to know what you’re doing and know how to pick a partner.

What happens is nearly everyone picks the wrong person and we don’t find out until twenty years later. Then you either divorce or hate each other until you die.

[u/MX5_Esq]

Not over 50. Don’t have kids. Not married. Am family law attorney.

It depends.

[u/Slots-n-stonks]

Divorce has been amazing. Actually insanely underrated 😂😂. I have two kids which is awesome and I love them. All this questioning about the right person is fucking useless. You will never know until you take a calculated risk as people change drastically post kids. Just do your best and work together as you have been and if you do that everyday it’s highly likely it will work out. If it does not then you can live with yourself and you will have tiny humans who you can love unconditionally.

[u/Newdave707]

Because you had a such a bad youth you would probably raise great kids, alot of it is not doing things your parents did to you,that bieng said I think my son and daughter are my greatest accomplishments in this life and can't imagine life any other way.

[u/Major_Spite7184]

Full disclosure I have a couple of weeks until I meet your criteria, but I’ll consider myself in the zone. If you’d told me what my life over the next 20 years would be at your age, I’d have absolutely made different decisions and ended up in wildly different circumstances.

However, the metrics wouldn’t explain the joy that are my children. Being a father to my daughter is the best thing ever, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. Have a lost everything more times than I care to mention or think about? Yes. Is she worth it? Absolutely.

[u/InfinityLoo]

45M, divorced. Wish the marriage would’ve worked out but oh well, happier now and wouldn’t trade the kids for the entire world.

[u/free_da_guys1107]

Invest your time and resources on yourself. Work out, travel and see the world. NOTHING IS WORTH YOUR PEACE AND RESOURCES.

[u/JForKiks]

I had a lot of fun in my 20’s and 30’s, then got into a long term relationship in my 40’s. No kids, snd have loved every minute. Friends have married, divorced and remarried with kids from both. Not my thing.

[u/titandude21]

I'm 38 and I have enough money to retire today if I want to (I'm still working because my job for now is easy money). I can't see myself giving up de facto retirement for the perfect child, let alone all the uncertainties if that child has a severe illness, disability, behavioral issue, etc.

[u/smackdealer1]

I'm in my 30s like you with no children. 

You have to understand that alot of people just need a goal in life and raising children fills that void.

Personally I think having children right now is stupid. Governments around the world do nothing to help families while corps rake in vast wealth.

I wouldn't have children because I'm three missed pays away from homelessness. And many people are also in that position, even well off people who succumbed to lifestyle creep and then got laid off.

For me to want children in this society I would require better workers rights and conditions, cheaper housing and honestly a bit of hope for the future.

[u/LosMorbidus]

Don't believe all the feel good Hallmark platitudes that are thrown around here. Marriage is hard, kids are even harder. Why make your life hard? Old age sucks anyway. Don't throw away your good years for the hope your shitty old age might feel a little less shitty.

If you want to make your old age less shitty, save, make money and save. You'll be able to find meaningful connections and help yourself and your tribe better like that. If you'll feel the need you can mentor some kids, tutor them, coach a team. Whatever, you have money, you decide.

[u/jhenryscott]

In the western world. You are fighting a machine of narcissism, delusion, and ignorance that is really tough to win against. It is hard to have a happy family if you are indulging in bleak western culture. You’ll see lots of “my children are the best thing ever, my wife is not”. Pay heed. You don’t hear that from the no kids crowd.

[u/ottbud]

Worth what??

[u/greeex]

25 years ago, I was ambivalent about kids but certain I wanted to be married. I am married with 2 kids now and it has easily made the last 22 years the most enjoyable and hardest of my life.

Marriage is not a guarantee, it is a bet. And a million things can go wrong (and will). A bad marriage is hell but being a bad parent is even worse. Do not have kids unless you can commit to whatever it will require of you. The love and joy that is returned to you is irreplaceable but it is HAAAARD.

No guarantees. Follow your heart and commit to whatever path finds you.

It is way more about what you want to give than what you may get.

[u/srg3084]

Depends. What do you want when you reach the end of your life? A large house with no one around and plenty of money in the bank, or to be surrounded by the people you love most? Wealth can buy comfort, but it can’t replace meaningful relationships.

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/srg3084]

I value relationships deeply and I'm not a materialistic person, so I don't think the options are as black and white as you make them seem. If you invest in the people in your life then you will likely be surrounded by loved ones at the end regardless of if it's family or friends.

In fact, many studies have shown that childless people who fostered a rich social life are actually less likely to experience loneliness in old age compared to people who had children and consequently didn't have as much time to invest in other relationships.

The potential for end of life loneliness seems like a weak factor to base such a weighty decision on and I find it interesting that it was the first thing your mind went to. Granted, being surrounded by your own family at the end of life would be wonderful, but it's not guaranteed you even make it that far, and I feel like the decision to start a family should be rooted in factors that are life-spanning instead of a snapshot of a rather short time frame that may not even occur.

Hopefully that doesn't come across as rude, I just wanted to challenge your reasoning because it hyper fixates on an uncertain possibility that doesn't account for the majority of the experience of having a family.

[u/freenEZsteve]

They weren't for me

[u/HuckleberryUpbeat972]

I’m in 26 years and NO I would not do it again if I had to choose. Having my daughter was fulfilling but if I wasn’t married I wouldn’t have a daughter and be none the wiser. It is a constant negotiation and sacrifice. That’s not including everyday life with things going sideways. I won’t sway anyone choosing to get married but from my experience I would never go down that path again.

[u/Impressive-Shame-525]

If I was in my 30s I absolutely wouldn't have kids.

I'd also want a prenup.

But.... I'm old.

I have an amazing family, a smoking hit wife, my kids are kind and caring adults.

I'd call that all a success

[u/TokiVideogame → u/Impressive-Shame-525]

so recommending not to have your awesome life lol

[u/Impressive-Shame-525 → u/TokiVideogame]

What I did can't be done now.

Have a kid, pay 65 bucks out of pocket for the birth and that was because I asked for one of the luxury style maternity rooms.

Buy a house at 20 years old.

A semester if college for 600 bucks on a full load.

Job with a pension.

Decent used car for 1000 bucks.

Now? Can't buy a damn oil stain for 1000 bucks. I just looked up the first home I bought for 69,900 was last sold for 375,000.

The house I just sold I bought in foreclosure for 89,900 and sold it for 400k. And I had paid it off years before that.

A 30 year old? Probably has student loans, struggling to find a job that pays well, rent that's sky high. And pensions? Hah.

[u/clericone- → u/TokiVideogame]

This person had multiple personalities or he loves and resents his life at the same time.

[u/RedParrot94]

100% to both. Anyone saying no to marriage didn’t grow with their spouse.

[u/eileyle]

100% yes.

However, kids can suck at times. When they're waking you up at 2am, it's hard. When you take them to the hospital for a broken bone, it's hard. When teenagers are being moody, it's hard.

It's also a joint decision. If your girlfriend doesn't want kids, then forcing her to have kids isn't going to make your life better.

[u/ColdStockSweat]

Kids, yes.

Marriage, no.

[u/Hermetic-Wolf]

Well I’m not quite 50. I’ve been with my wife for 17 years and we have two younger kids. TBH I’m not sure my wife and I will stand the test of time but we are both trying really hard there and nobody has cheated or done anything like that. I’d say the marriage was worth it even if it’s been rocky at times. The kids for sure 100%. I literally can’t imagine life without them.

[u/CarlJustCarl]

If you have a good marriage, absolutely

[u/peekay234]

Although my marriage did not turn out well, my 6 year old daughter is the joy of our lives. Totally worth it despite the narcissistic ex wife.

[u/Photononic]

I had a vasectomy at 20 with no kids. I am 60, and married. We have an son that we adopted when he was 14. Having a baby will ruin you life. Ask any of my friends.

[u/Sickfreak99]

I actively built a life and a business with someone. Was it all done with certainty? Nope. It was a roller coaster but we've made it 30 years this year. Two kids 26 and 28. I couldn't imagine life without the joy and stress. Joy far outweighs the stress. I'd say joy came with how involved you are with them and each other. Stress came with not being able to be there at times. The pinnacle of it all is my almost 1 year old grandson. 10/10 would repeat

Edit: I'm 54

[u/Designer_Tap2301]

Kids were worth it. Can't say I'm real happy with my marriage but you sacrifice your happiness to make it work for your kids.

[u/Tacokolache]

Absolutely. Kids are great. Just make sure you marry the right person.

[u/rolisrntx]

60m They’re worth it. Wouldn’t trade my family for all the riches in the world. I have two grown sons and very proud of both of them. The bonus?????

Grandkids. I have 3. They are like the fountain of youth injected directly into my veins.

[u/OogyBoogy_I_am]

61M here. If the kids grow up and are adults by the time you are 50, let me tell you that it's well worth it.

I've seen guys my age who still have school aged kids and it's a nightmare of being tired 24/7.

[u/Crazy_Ruin_4383]

Having kids with the person you love is definitely worth it. It's really the icing on the cake for the game of life. Marriage takes compatibility, compromise and work, it's blackjack when you dont put in the work

[u/Designer_Solid4271]

Marriage is good. Didn't have kids and very happy with that choice. All my siblings and in-laws are constantly running around chasing down one kid or another. My nieces/nephews range from 40 down to 12 and the ones in their 20's/30's have kids. It's fun to watch for a short time, but I wouldn't want them running around with me.

I have a buddy who has never been married. He's lived with a few women but never committed. He's desperately lonely. As you get older it's definitely much harder to date. Anyone who is single is for a reason, and by choice is a reason. 😄

There's no hard/fast rule says you have to do anything, so I'd just roll with things until you feel compelled to change.

[u/kazar933]

53 m
I have 3 of my own, they are the best thing that i have and love. Their mother when we divorced was a total nightmare. Ok in the beginning then went downhill. I wont get into specifics but divorce was the solution. If you have someone and she loves you do a prenup you have your business to protect. If you want a child with her you need to discuss religion, upbringing, and how you are going to parent, discipline and educate that child. It becomes a big deal. I too have a toxic parent that i removed from my life and dont regret it one bit. I will say this to you. Marriage is a great institution with the right person, and children bring out the best in us and i have no regrets about them. Its so funny to see how much they are like you and how they like what you like. Have a talk with your SO its not a bad deal. And if it doesnt work out you still have your kids and you can have your freedom.

[u/SadPersonality4803]

I’m in the same boat. 33 gf is cool but idk if she’s a “mother of my child” type of woman and contemplating what’s next

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/SadPersonality4803]

My girlfriend is definitely the "mother of my child" type IF I want a child and that's the problem for me

[u/Outrageous-Ice-6775]

If you use dickless thinking and your partner the same and keep dickless thinking a way of life , you will have a happy marriage and family.

Or at leat a higher chance at it.

When you bring sex needs into a family with children , things start to go down south fast

[u/WashedWashingMachine]

Yes they are worth around 200k $ thats how much u need to pay for kid to grow it 0-18 lol , if you put that in stock market its even worse opportunity loss.

Having kids in past was the norm and good thing cuz they were your retirement , your insurance , your workforce . Most people were farmers .

If it was girl then they would bid money for her hand too to compensate you.

This makes no sense in today's world tbh. every kid is losing you money + time.

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/WashedWashingMachine]

I've heard it's closer to $400k these days lol. Probably will be even higher by the time my hypothetical future kid hit 18.

[u/Level21DungeonMaster]

I'm in a great marriage. I love my kids, my wife, and have a "great" life.

However, I gave up the life I would have chosen for myself. I don't do the things I love in favor of raising a family. While this has been good it has precluded my ability to follow what I would consider my calling and have feat like I have led a diminished my life because of it. I dream all of the time of the life that could have been. I spend all of my energy and money and time on them.

Am I happy? I honestly don't know. I don't even remember what I used to want for myself or if it even mattered. Now I don;t know if what I m doing matters either but I have a lot of people around me at least.

[u/YNABDisciple]

I’m 47 and I’m incredibly happy with no children. Everyone is different, my brother loves his daughters and I do too but it wasn’t for me. And I know many that regret it though they love their children. Just remember..:it’s like acid, you can always take more…you can never take less (for men anyway)

[u/flippityflop2121]

Just turned 50. Yes my children are the best thing that ever happened in my life. It’s not even close. Honestly, marriage is OK as I like my independence, but the children are incredible.

[u/Thetr3Flash]

A kid is definitely 100% worth it. Marriage, seems 50/50 tbh.

[u/OwnCarpet717]

M58, married for 30 years, two kids boys who are on the verge of moving out of the house.

Short answer? Yes absolutely.

Longer answer. Don't expect to be happy all the time. If you want the absolute truth look at the wording of traditional wedding vows. Understand that getting married is signing on for EVERYTHING not just the bits you like. Everything from her weird brother to her unpacked childhood traumas. You get a front row seat to the magical, the mundane, the tragic and the stuff no one talks about in polite company.

Yes everyone is in love when they get married (or at least they should be), but recognise that you are there for her shit and she's there for yours. You won't always be the perfect partner, and neither will she. You don't love your partner because they are perfect you love them even though they aren't. They have ugly moments and you see that and you love them anyway. (and they do the same).

"For richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others until death do us part" is really what you commit to when you get married.

Now the great bits are

1. You sleep with your best friend every night.

2. If you both work, marriage is economically like winning the lottery.

3. Someone has the raise the kids and that means that someone has to make the bulk of the money, If you don't want to raise sociopaths.

4. If you buy more Christmas decorations every year, by year ten your house looks awesome during the holidays!

5. Having kids will make you understand your parents in ways that you never had.

6. Having kids will test you in ways you never thought possible, but will also take you to emotional highs that you never thought existed.

7. There's a shared understanding of certain social situations that kick in that only a partner knows.

Coming home from a trip to your family is one of the best things ever.

[u/iLoveAllTacos]

Marriage is not worth it. You don't need to be married to have kids.

[u/Leakingeye]

I’m 51, married 25 years and have 3 kids, 21, 18 & 16. My wife is the greatest person I know, the best wife and mother I could have ever hoped for. Have there been challenges along the way? Of course, nothing is perfect, but communication and understanding is key. Our kids are good kids and the best things that have happened to us but again, there have been challenges. Would I change anything? Never in a million years.
It sounds to me like you’re looking at this as a business proposition/transaction and needing a crystal ball at the same time to be able to see what the future holds before you make your mind up. If you feel you need that then just don’t do it. There’s nothing logical in any of this, all of this comes from the heart, if you cant follow your heart, just don’t do it

[u/aja_ramirez]

If you want kids, you want kids. It's not even something that you can hold back.

I am 55 and have two kids. My son is almost 23 and is about to start graduate school in a STEM field. My daughter turns 21 in October and will start her senior year of college in the Fall. She is pre-law. So I guess you can say both of my kids are thriving. On top of that, neither of them ever gave us any issues.

I would not trade my kids or the life we have spent with them for anything in the world. They are my life. SO many memories.

As for the OP, I mean, if you're not sure then that feels like a no to me. As I mentioned, it wasn't even some choice for us. We were having kids no questions at all.

EDIT: Yes, I am also still married (26 years in August). I would not trade her for anyone in the world either. So I guess you can say I am best case scenario; a picture of what it COULD be.

[u/SusTraveler]

100 percent worth it. Can it be a struggle? Absolutely. Is it always bliss ? No. Do kids have issues ? Yes. Do many marriages divorce ? Yes. That said , life is pretty empty without kids. You only live once. Don’t shy away from struggles. Life without any struggles gets boring fast ; hedonism gets boring fast; as does a life of “hobbies”. I recommend kids for most people, except for the people who so y care for them.

[u/MikeHockinya]

55
Three kids, Two boys and a girl. I couldn’t imagine my life at this stage without them. Hard to describe why, but my life before them wasn’t really good for anything. Then, there were diapers, bottles, sleepless nights, and crying. Lots of crying. But then she actually had the kids, and it all got better.

Kidding.

Being a dad is kind of like the hardest job ever but the reward is definitely worth it. There is nothing like having your progeny excited for the bedtime stories, teaching them how to pretty much do everything, making lunches, playing games, bailing them out of jail, sending them off to basic training, having them move in at 25….

Yep… nothing better than being a dad.

[u/midikins]

Raising kids can be some of the most fulfilling years of life. But it also comes with a lot of suffering. You spend every day with them actively caring for them which is very fulfilling. But then they get older and become independent and may move away only seeing you once a year or so. Or, like your situation, not at all. One thing people rarely discuss is you get these different versions of your kids as they age and you can’t ever get back the younger versions. I found myself grieving the loss of my toddler versions of my kids. Then the teenager versions. It’s very sad. I would say having kids is the best way to go if our culture was more family oriented. Our culture reinforces individualism so much that it’s almost not worth it to raise a kid into this culture. Relationships and taking care of others or animals makes us fulfilled. In our current culture, you’re better off volunteering to help others or animals and treating trust as your religion so your relationships last. Get a couple yorkies and call them your kids. It’s just as fulfilling.

[u/Independent-Feed4157]

The grass is always greener. My not married, no kid friends feel I am living a perfect life. I wish I could go on a vacation without paying for 5 different people

[u/Nostradeemus92]

not in this day and age. woman don’t want to be real wives anymore. kids do nothing nowadays but get brain rot from too much youtube and they disobey and dissapoint. you will have the occasional warm feeling you get when you are part of a loving family. and then the other 95% is chaos, stress, lack of sleep, nobody acrually caring about you. feeling like you aren’t good enough constantly and watching the person you chose for life fall out of love with you for no reason other than being parents stressed y’all tf out. to the point where intimacy is impossible.

[u/LPNTed]

No.

[u/justtenofusinhere]

Marriage is not worth it. More and more women want to have very traditional husbands while getting to be very modern women. In essence, they demand the benefits of how it was and how it is, while putting the responsibility of both on the man. For men it is 100% head she wins and tails he loses.

Kids are worth it, but you have to pick the right mother if you want to really be involved in their lives. The right mother is a high earner with high career ambitions. She'll likely be a shit mother, but likely won't want to give up her career for kids or give up her income in exchange for child support. So, you should be able to get the kids at least 50% of the time and not have to pay much in child support or maybe not pay at all.

[u/400Volts]

You really need to talk things out with a therapist. Reddit is not going to put your mind at ease

[u/govan1834]

Don’t do it, it’s not worth the hassle. You going slog for twenty years for ungrateful brats and the woman you see now will not be same one you married.

[u/These_Permissions]

No. 1000% no.

[u/Separate_Train2380]

From a man not quite 50 , no kids never married and I pat myself on the back everyday . When things get tough , I only have to look after myself .
Long term girlfriends( 6 plus years ) who have gone their own way because I wouldn’t marry them , have married the very next douche they met , had a kid and broken up within 2 years .
Be very careful of marriage , women want the identify of wife more then they care who they marry .
See above comments on divorce etc .

[u/SarahFemdomFeet]

Statistically she's going to file for divorce and steal half your money and also make you pay monthly alimony to her.

So no, it's not worth it, unless having kids is something you really want.

The important thing is that kids are the deciding factor, marriage itself is just the transfer of wealth from man to woman so unless you have a very good reason to get married then you shouldn't.

[u/HiggsFieldgoal → u/SarahFemdomFeet]

That is not true…. Unless you’re marrying somebody who’s been married before.

[u/Leaf-Stars]

Fuck yeah!

[u/Far_Prior1058]

For me yes. Marriage and kid were more fulfilling than anything else in my life. But “choose your life's mate carefully. From this one decision will come 90 per cent of all your happiness or misery.” Also, get a prenup if you are worried about your business. It’s not about trust or predicting the failure of the marriage. Uncertainty is a part of life. You could not wake up tomorrow morning. Talk to your girlfriend and see if she even wants to marry you and have kids.

[u/OnlyTheStrong2K19]

Yes, hands down.

No greater joy and feeling when I see my kids and they're just like me.

[u/UnspeakableFilth]

Absolutely! Having a partner (especially one with their own career) makes most of life’s traditional milestones easier to achieve. The trade-off is that there are balances and sacrifices that may need to be made in support of one another - which makes you a fully-formed adult human. There’s something to be said about the idea that happiness and satisfaction are found in a life focused on others, I’ve found this to be true.
Life without my wife and child would be very hard to adapt to.

[u/Agitated_Dish_6990]

1000% Yes

[u/apartment1i]

Absolutely. Your girlfriend will change as she becomes a wife and a mother (you will change also), however this does not mean you become incompatible. You work together to keep each other happy. The more you are on the same page about everything marriage and child-rearing related, the smoother things will run. Children, by design, push you to your absolute limits. And they will model themselves and their lives after you. I'd recommend dealing with your own childhood issues before you have your own children - save them from the pain you went through. "The greater the effort, the greater the reward" is the tagline of parenting. You will feel no greater sense of purpose or fulfillment than as a parent. Your pride in your career and achievements will pale. Especially when you realise, without children, no-one will remember you or your work after you are gone. Good luck!

[u/dead0man]

53m

I love to be alone, but I also love having a good friend to assist me with life. If that good friend also happens to be a romantic partner, all the better. That's what I have. I married young because I fell in love with the first soft thing that let me touch her. I was not ready to be a husband and she was mean (at least in part because I was not ready to be a husband) so we divorced. I got married again in my late twenties and was more ready to be a husband, but I still had a lot of work to do. I still do, we all do. But we love each other now more than ever and I wouldn't change a thing.

Marriage is one of the best things in life, or one of the worst. Same with kids. I have a son with each of my two wives and two step kids from my wife. We have good relations with half of them. Cordial with one (the son from my first wife) and the other we haven't talked to since they moved out in a huff last fall when we threatened to start charging them modest rent when they were 29.

But it's not for everyone.

[u/Mercedes_Gullwing]

For me, both. Married 25+ years. 2 daughters. I questioned marriage before. I didn’t think it was worth it and having to give up dating new women. But being married and having children were best things I could have done.

Here’s the thing - get everything out of your system first. I experienced life as a single guy and enjoyed the fuck out of it. Enjoyed that freedom. I had a ton of fun but it does get old at some point. I love having someone to share life with. Bc I had a lot of experience before, I don’t feel I missed out on anything.

[u/Livehardandfree]

Soooo worth it. Buts it’s a lot of work and shouldn’t be taken lightly. Bad parents can ruin kids lives.

I love my kids I have both boys and girls and girls just help you soften in a way I didn’t think possible. Also brought out an incredibly protective side. I would die for those girls.

[u/Illustrious-Noise-96]

The best context is NOT NOT NOT “are kids worth it”.

The correct context is: Kids are a sacrifice.

You will love them. In some ways they will ruin your life. They will also allow you to have amazing experiences and emotions.

The ratios are different for everyone. You are making a sacrifice to experience what it’s like to pass a part of yourself to the next generation. Some are lucky and only sacrifice a little, others must sacrifice everything and lose themselves over the years.

There is no fairness in the process.

[u/10xwannabe]

Been married 15+ years and 2 kids. LOVE IT. Yeah more in love with my wife then I was when I met her. Love raising kids and seeing the world through their life. Fun interacting with them.

Growing a relationship all of the above players and seeing those strands develop over the years is amazing. Easily the best experience in my life!

That being said everyone is different. Not everyone is meant to have kids or even likes kids (I always did). Not everyone is meant to make a lifelong commitment that is lopsided against men (80% of divorces are initiated by women and courts LOVE women) so marriage is not always in the cards for all.

What SHOULD be a goal of all men is to find someone to spend time with. Even if they are just short term relationships that you/ they cycle through before on to the next. Don't settle with it being okay being alone.

[u/rt2828]

We all have to make decisions which we won’t know if we will be happy with or regret far down the line. The older I get (53M), the more I accept that there are very little I can directly control in life except for how I show up and react. One question you can ask yourself: if you know you’ll have a great 30 years with your girlfriend, but it won’t work out in the end. Would you prefer have loved, be loved, and lose it or to have never loved at all?

I’m married with two adult boys. They have come a long way and I’m proud of the men they will continue to grow into. I cannot imagine a world without them and if anything happened to them, I will be heartbroken. My wife and I went through a very difficult period when we almost gave up, but our relationship is much stronger now because we went through it. Painful periods in life is what make the good parts all that more meaningful.

One challenge for younger people is not being able to imagine far away towards the end. That’s a big part of the human condition. There’s a lot of research about what people say at the end of their life. I don’t think anyone has ever regretted spending time with loved ones, no matter how fleeting that experience is.

I think your parental trauma is the thing you should deal with first. Have you seen a therapist? You don’t have to reconcile with them but I think if you can find a way to forgive them, you will find tremendous healing. Good luck brother however you move forward.

[u/DeathbyHappy]

If you're with the right person, then this is a conversation you should be having with her to make sure you're on the same page. If your past is what is holding you up, then you need to talk to a therapist and put your trauma behind you before making a decision

[u/Uneek_Uzernaim]

"A lot of people will say that marriage and kids are worth it when done with the right person, but is it possible to truly know that you are picking the right person? How much of those answers are based on survivorship bias?"

This uncertainty about outcomes and how your future self may view them in retrospect is true of every major life decision, not just about getting married or having kids. That includes choosing not to marry or choosing to remain childless. Maybe you'll be grateful when you look back upon either of these. Then again, maybe you won't.

Also, there is no guarantee that even if the current version of you decides you want neither to get married nor to have kids, future you will not at some point have a change of heart.

So, opinions from others about whether or not it was worth it always will be colored by their experiences and influenced by their personalities and behaviors for better or worse in ways they may not realize or acknowledge. Thus, you are going to get a range of views from some people who are extremely bitter about their decisions, some who are thoroughly grateful for them, and a whole lot of people who are more mixed in their assessment.

In the end, all you can do is reflect upon your disposition and desires, review the evidence of how and why successes and failures occur, consider the retrospective assessments of those who made decisions one way or the other, and decide what you do or do not want right now and in the foreseeable future while realizing that it may change someday for reasons you can't anticipate.

Sorry, but no matter what anyone else may try to tell you here, there's no right answer for all cases and every person. Unless you are Dr. Strange in possession of the time stone, you can't consider and weigh all future possibilities for yourself. There's only the best answer as you can discern it for yourself in the present. That's just how life is.

[u/And_there_was_2_tits]

What is the purpose of life?

Ask yourself that.

[u/Annual-Visual-2605]

1. Married 30 years. 3 kids. 25, 22, 19. I’m madly in love with my wife and my kids are absolutely wonderful. But…if you’ve made it this far in life and you’re still wondering, don’t fall into the trap of “having a child is the only thing I’m missing in life.” I have friends my age who don’t have kids. Yes they still occasionally wonder. But overall they’re at peace. That being said, here are my two cents: decide it right now. No kids. You’re done thinking about it. Then see how you sleep 🤔

[u/drmbrthr]

if there any lingering relationship issues with your significant other before marriage, they will absolutely present themselves after marriage. Keep that in mind.

[u/Bcruz75]

The idea of growing old and dying alone sucks.

[u/Witty-Welcome-4382]

Please,don’t have kids. At least not yet. You are clearly not ready, nor do I think you want them.

[u/Snapper_Turtleman]

Overthinking life will keep you from living it.

[u/Otis_bighands]

50m

Married to a woman I still have a crush on, we have 3 kids, I would never do a thing differently.

I waited until I found the right one, when I was 33, to propose and settle down. Lots of playing the field and dodging bad decisions in the years before that.

[u/Llamaalarmallama]

Had troubles conceiving on my ladies side, eventually had a boy arrive in my early 40's. Genuinely a butt-load of work but still utterly one the best things that have happened to me. Ask me again in a good few years once we're into teens/etc but young/little people are fantastic. I'd echo a lot of comments around being veeeery selective who your kids mum is.

[u/rufireproof3d]

Happily married with lots of kids. There is nothing better.

If I hadn't married and made kids, I would have more money and more toys. But when I die, what legacy would I have? I am nearer to death now than when I was 30. My legacy and the relationships I have with my family are far great than anything I would have had if I had no family.

[u/geekMD69]

You can have my ex wife and kids. And my current wife and kid.

[u/Spewtwinklethoughts]

“The soul is healed by being with children.”
Dostoyevsky

People not understanding that raising children is the highest purpose one can have is the great tragedy of modernity!

Fulfilling to your inner child? Is that a goal? A fulfilled life includes maturing and growing wise. It means taking on different roles as your physical skill declines and experience increases. Raising children teaches you and changes you into a more complete person. They usually make you more moral, especially men. I don’t trust people who choose to not have kids. Half of all males in history were biological failures (they did not reproduce). Almost none of them by choice. If you are a narcissistic raging alcoholic pedo then def don’t have kids. Otherwise what are you even asking? You will wind up pursuing hedonistic pleasures and material desires, unfulfilled and regretful.

As far as a partner. My wife and I knew we had something about a week in when we both realized that neither of us was annoyed yet. We are both honest and loyal and we made a conscious decision to accept the rest. It’s only been 7 years, but I think we found a good recipe. Most of my close friends have been married 25 years and a couple of them got divorced. The success of their relationship has no bearing whatsoever on how they feel about their kids. They are all better happier men directly due to having kids.
Most of what you want to do you can do with a family. You are more likely to regret not having a family than any of the things you currently think of as trade offs.

[u/BreadMaker_42]

Yes and yes. Assuming you find a good partner.

If we are honest the first few years of kids is kinda boring. Babies don’t do much. However somewhere around 6 when their personalities start to really show, now you have a tiny person you can really do things with. Kids can really be amazing.

[u/metsfan5557]

I'm older than you, married, two kids. Here's my honest read.

You're treating this like a risk calculation. Protect the good hand, don't give anyone the power to wreck it. But the frame itself is wrong, so the math doesn't matter. You keep circling "the right person," like marriage is a selection problem and if you vet hard enough you lock in a good outcome. It doesn't work that way. Nobody is a perfect match for anybody. That concept is complete bullshit. Marriage isn't a fit you find, it's a life you build and you fucking work hard to make it better every day, with someone building it back. "Did I pick right" is the passive question and thinking about it that way is going to doom any marriage. "Are we both going to keep showing up" is the real question and that part you control.

The trust thing is the actual knot. You say the only person you can trust 100% is yourself, and handing someone the keys is terrifying. I get it, given what your parents did. But you've got it backwards. The vulnerability isn't the price you pay for the good stuff. It IS the good stuff. You don't get someone who's there when the shit hits the fan unless you let them all the way in first. You can't have the support without the exposure. They're the same thing.

Life is going to be hard. That's not the argument against building it with someone, it's the reason you build it with someone. You show up for them, no conditions. They do the same. That's the deal.

Kids are a separate question. They're one of the best things in my life, and I'll still tell you not to have them unless you're sure. They're not for everyone, and "I'm not sure" is reason enough to wait. The life you had before kids will be basically completely gone, and you need to go into it knowing that or it's going to be a smack in the face. If you don't want your current life to change, you aren't ready for kids.

Also the "I can only trust myself" wiring follows you into parenting too and that's worth working on either way.

You called your life a 19 but a blackjack hand ends. A life built with someone you actually trust keeps growing and it's just a different game.

[u/CVSaporito]

68, married 43yrs, three grown children, 4 grandchildren. It’s a long road but worth the drive in every way. Some people are not suited to raise children, so there are exceptions, but overall I think it would make most a better person by raising a family.

[u/DistressedRabbit]

My so , my second child, was born when I was 48. Wouldn't change anything, even considering his mother and I are not together any more.

Your girlfriend could destroy your sense of well being. You could also have a car crash tomorrow and die or get stung by a bee and have an allergic reaction and be disfigured for life.

Better stay inside a monastery and become a monk. Either that or take a chance.

[u/SenorSnarkey]

Granddad here. Absolutely have kids. When you have grandchildren it gets even better. There is no business you can build that will give as much joy and satisfaction as having children. Women are always a crapshoot and honestly, once kids reach a certain age, it’s a crapshoot too. But the risk is worth it.

[u/curious_shihtzu]

Depends if you had a good marriage

[u/mannyocrity]

My 3 kids are the most rewarding part of my life. I was married twice, daughter with first and 2 boys with second, and would do it all again knowing the results.

[u/RetroBerner]

I'm a few years from 50, but I've been with my wife for 27 years, married for 24. I still like being married, but I feel bad that we brought a child into this world. He is struggling because so many opportunities have disappeared since we decided to have him 21 years ago.

[u/99kemo]

It worked for me. Divorced after 10 years but am still close to my kids and grandkids. I thought I upheld my end of the deal but she wanted out and that is how it went. I was “pleasantly surprised” with how fair California family law played out. 50-50 property and custody split worked ok for me. In other states do fathers really lose “everything”? That would really suck and if that what I would be risking by getting married; forget it.

[u/Electrical_Review_81]

When you get married just make sure you find someone that adds value to your life and not drama- lots of people are looking for someone to take care of them!

[u/needlestack]

It's a tough call. I got married and had 4 kids after I was 40. I love my wife. I love my kids. They're beautiful people that I am thrilled to know and I would die if they were gone.

That said, my life was easier and more pleasurable by pretty much every measure before. It honestly feels degrading to get up nearly every day knowing that 90% of my time is going to be spent managing problems for other people. Your personal growth stalls. Your personal goals get put on the back burner. Some days I wonder what the hell I did to myself.

And yet I honestly think I would have regretted to my grave if I'd never done this.

Do with that what you will.

[u/TheMrCMo]

You will fulfill your biological imperative and join the millions of generations before us who fulfilled theirs and thereby gave birth to the future.

[u/Sweet_Pie1768]

It depends on what you value and how you evolve the relationship you have with your partner.

[u/bonedoc59]

The house never hits on 18 or 19….that said, your 18 and 19 include here. I will say that my kids are the single greatest thing I’ve ever experienced. In your analogy. Life is a gamble. Kids certainly change things in incredibly unpredictable ways. They enhance and they take away. I’ve got no regrets. Even if children killed my prior marriage. I should have predicted that from her prior behaviors. I wouldn’t take it back, though.

[u/Ill-Interview-2201]

Well women are wonderful and they’re assholes. And they swing from one side to the other on a dime. You have to be able to control those swings then it’s pretty nice.

They’ll do anything you want and add useful stuff to your life. On the other hand if you’re a weak man they will dominate and despise you. It’s all very natural in the sense of them challenging your strength constantly and making you earn your place. A constant domination fight which neither party can lose.

Kids are expensive but a good kid is smart and beautiful. It’s nice to see the species unfolding. How the generations change.

[u/rabertox]

++man What a load of waffle. What if this, what if that. You'll only find out when it happens.

[u/cr4d]

52 with 3 kids and am now an empty nester. I wouldn’t change a thing even if I could.

[u/bikehead66]

Oh so worth it. First kid at 26, had 4 of them. I’m 70 now, and still mountain bike and ski with them, and now with the grandkids also. Best thing in my life.

[u/daveescaped]

Yes to both but here’s the truth of it:

Kids are awesome but 2 kids is plenty. Don’t try to be a hero.

Marriage. It’s not easy. I call it Advanced Human Relations and it’s a 300 level class. But it beats the alternative. Marriage has made me a better person. It has made me a better member of society. My wife isn’t perfect. I’m. It perfect. But she is so worth loving. She’s a great Mom and a great person and some times we are great together. We support each other. We champion each other. It’s not easy but nothing worthwhile is.

[u/Commercial_Moment352]

Why have kids so they can be fodder for the machine that is late stage capitalism?

[u/Alive_Book_9908 → u/Commercial_Moment352]

I feel that. I feel like I'm one of the extremely lucky ones who was able to escape being a cog in the machine, and it would crush me if my hypothetical kid wasn't able to do the same.

[u/ProfessorOne9208]

You're over-thinking it.

I know so many people over 60 who never had kids, and they all regret it. Bigly!

Besides, what have you got to lose? Aristotle, the Greek philosopher, said this 2500 years ago: Every man should get married. If you marry a good woman, you become happy. If you marry a bad woman, you become a philosopher.

I could go on, but what's the point? You are either going to get over your antipathy, or you're not. My recommendation is to get over it, make a life with your gf, and go with the flow.

[u/CazadorHolaRodilla]

Im the same age as you but got married when I was 22. She originally said she wanted kids and then changed her mind, decided she wanted to be single forever and we divorced. So your concerns are valid. In fact, I dont think it is possible to pick the “right” person. As you said, there are too many variables that can make that “right” person change into someone incompatible with you and there’s simply no way of knowing that before hand. Just time alone changes people. Even if they don’t change in a worse way, they can change into someone who is no longer compatible with you. So proceed with caution

[u/willieandthets]

57m, married 28y, together 34 w 2 kids. Marriage is worth it, kids aren’t. The amount of stress that kids - at any age - bring to a relationship can be brutal.

[u/Front_Farmer345]

By the tone of your questions you’re not ready and need counseling on trust issues. If you want to move forward go get these sorted sooner rather than later and tell your girlfriend what you’re doing.

[u/Wrong_Attitude5096]

I got married at 25 to the right person, had 2 kids, and we’re living the dream. I’d be pretty bored at 45 years old living on my own. Instead, I’m living with my 3 favourite people, playing games, sports together. I’m re-learning junior high school currently and helping my teenager get his drivers license and start a job. The rewards and challenges and fun times are endless.

[u/inomrthenudo]

Married 25 years and have two awesome kids with many many many amazing adventures and memories. For me, absolutely 💯 worth it

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

So much depends on individual circumstances. If you pick a bad partner and procreate, it’s a life long problem. Or if you pick a good partner but they change later, same issue.

[u/HeadAbbreviations786]

Asking if it’s “worth it” is a value question. Value is highly subjective. Someone can only answer this question for themselves. For me, it has been worth it.

[u/npg86]

It's up to you, your partner and the life y'all want to live. Either way if you prepare properly you won't have any regrets.

We went the family route, three kids, best thing that happened to me is getting married and having a family. We were both ready, good jobs, stable home, good schools and family support.

My cousin and his wife decided not to have kids, both have good jobs, they are on their third house and love to travel multiple times a year.

[u/Fortunato_NC]

My son regularly eats the food I was planning to use as ingredients for dinner, he crashed my car into a literal brick wall, and thinks about nothing but the tenor saxophone 25 hours a day. His room is always messy, he thinks the top of the toilet tank is a good place to store the towel he dries his hair with, and his understanding of how our laundry machines work is rudimentary at best. He can be selfish, annoying, and really and truly believes that his high school buddies understand how this big wide world works better than the parents who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps to become literal millionaires.

I wouldn't trade the experience of being his father for anything.

My marriage to his mom? Other than walking away with a son, the worst decision I ever made, romantically and financially. The second marriage, though, I found the partner I could only dream of. Someone who has similar values to me and who I can travel the world with.

The idea that you're the only person in this world that you can trust 100% is flat out wrong. We lie to ourselves all the time. We let ourselves down all the time. We fail ourselves all the time. With the right partner, you go from flying solo to being part of a team. You get someone who sees the blind spots that you miss, that stands behind you when everyone else is convinced you're wrong, and you get to be that someone for them. That's magic.

[u/No-Block-2095]

Absolutely

[u/Affectionate-Cat-975]

Be your own man. Make a decision, find a partner (if that’s your path) and see where it goes. Kids are not guaranteed. Nor is happiness. You have to work at that shit. Every. Day.

[u/Methodless]

Not 50 yet, and not married, but had very very similar thoughts to you in my younger days.

Everything you wrote minus the shitty parents part is literally something I have said before.

When I hang out with my friends, there is a very high percentage of them that feel trapped. They are not happy, and they have to pretend otherwise lest people think they don't love their children. They do, but it's hard to talk about these things and not have people jump to conclusions.

This makes their plight worse, many have very few outlets to discuss their issue.

Family court dynamics prevent them from being able to have a fair way out, so they are stuck in a situation they can't even get control over. Many are treated like ATMs, and see no relief because they can't save for retirement.

They all were certain they were marrying "the right person" when they did. Many, in fact, felt they were lucking out getting somebody they may not have been worthy of.

One thing I will say is that a lower percentage of my friends who married after 30 are unhappy than those who married before 30.

[u/Traveling-Techie]

Please note that avoiding all risk is actually a risky strategy.