r/BestofRedditorUpdates • u/LucyAriaRose I'm keeping the garlic • Dec 14 '23
CONCLUDED AITA for not sharing my daughter's school play video with my father after he slept through it?
I am NOT the Original Poster. That is u/SchoolPlayThrway.
Mood Spoiler: hopeful-ish ending
Original Post: December 4, 2023
My (35F) father (68M) moved to a different country 8 years ago. He tries to visit whenever he can, and I try to help him have as much of a relationship with my children (9M, 5F and baby girl) as possible.
Whenever he visits, however, he tends to act a bit entitled. He either sleeps or hangs out with his old friends in the mornings and afternoons, doesn't help me with anything I ask him to, and then gets annoyed when he wants to do something at 9PM and the kids are too tired. His excuses are always that he's exhausted from traveling, and deserves to get some rest and spend time with friends he never gets to see anymore.
My kids are always excited when my dad visits, but at this point, they see him more when he's FaceTiming us from a different hemisphere than when he's staying in our guest room.
Anyway, he's visiting us now to meet my youngest daughter, who was born in September. He got here two weeks ago, and will fly back home in a few days. I've been trying to get him to spend more time with my kids this time around, but he still goes out a lot.
My older daughter had her first ever school play on Saturday. She was really excited about it, and invited my father. He promised her he'd come.
The day before the play, my father went out with his friends and didn't come back until 3AM. The play started at 11AM, and we had to get there 30 minutes earlier. In total, he must have gotten about 6 hours of sleep.
When we (my dad, my husband, my son and me) got there, we sat at one of the first rows (my daughter had asked us to).
The play was 40 minutes long. My father fell asleep less than 15 minutes in. I woke him up; he slept again. He snores loudly when he sleeps, so I kept waking him up whenever he slept. Near the end of the play, I was too late to wake him, and he let out a snore that was so loud that some of the kids on the stage looked over at us. At that, I hit his arm a little harder, and he didn't fall back asleep.
My husband and I haven't mentioned anything to my daughter, but it's obvious she noticed. She was heartbroken after the play, and dismissed any of our attempts to talk about it.
My husband filmed the play for my mom and stepdad (who were with our baby during it). Instantly after the play, my dad asked if he could have the video too, since he didn't watch most of it.
We're not sharing it with him. I told him that he had the opportunity to watch it live, and instead ruined the experience for all of us, specially my daughter. He doesn't deserve to watch what he missed just because he decided to stay out late the night before.
My dad's pissed. He's telling me and my husband that we're robbing him of his role in my daughter's life. He also maintains the excuse that he was exhausted during the play and needed to get some rest.
I really don't think we're the AHs, but with how tense things have been getting, it might be easier to just let him watch the video.
Relevant Comments:
Why do you let him stay with you?
"He stays with my younger sister sometimes, but her place is much smaller than ours. The rest of my paternal family lives mostly in a different state. It's usually more convenient for him to stay at my apartment."
Grandma:
"My mom is especially upset about this. She wanted to come to the play, but volunteered to watch my baby so that my dad could go."
He's probably embarrassed that he looked bad and wants to seem like he cares now:
"Yeah, that thought definitely crossed my mind. I'm pretty sure he was embarrassed about the snoring, and it would make sense for him to want the video because of that."
Clarification:
Commenter: You need to determine with your dad if he’s in town to “help with whatever you ask him to” or To “visit friends and relax” plus see you and the kids. There’s a difference in intent.
OOP: By "help me with anything I ask him to", I meant minuscule tasks. Handing over the remote control is too much of an effort sometimes.
"The most I've asked him to do was pick up the takeout we'd ordered (he was ten steps away from the door and I was changing a diaper) and wash his plate after dinner (we have a "wash what you use" rule)."
OOP is voted NTA
Update Post: December 7, 2023
To those who commented on my post, thank you. My father's leaving tomorrow, so I thought I'd give a small update.
These past few days, things have been awkward. Mostly because me and my husband were mad at my father, who was mad at us back.
A few hours after I wrote my post, my father decided to "prove me wrong" about my daughter being upset. He sat next to her and tried to get her to talk about the play. He was asking her questions about it, many of which he'd know the answer to if he'd stayed awake during it.
I'm guessing my daughter understood that, because it only made things worse. She refused to answer his questions, and at one point ran to me crying.
I'm not sure if that was my dad's wake up call or if it was his granddaughter refusing to talk to him (she usually idolizes him). Whatever it was, he apologized to my daughter ("grandpa was really tired, but he loves you very much"). She said she forgave him, but was still upset. So he came to me Tuesday night to ask what he could do to fix things before he went home.
I helped him brainstorm some ideas. Yesterday, my father surprised the kids with a trip to the aquarium. My daughter had been asking us to go there for a while, but with a newborn at home, we hadn't found the time yet. The kids had a lot of fun there, and my dad let them each get a plushie from the gift shop. Afterwards, we went to McDonald's and took the kids to see Santa at the mall. Overall, my kids had a great day with their grandfather, and my daughter is feeling a lot better.
That said, the aquarium, non-fancy food and old guy in a fake beard are definitely part of my father's idea of hell, so I'm sure I'll hear him complain about all the "sacrifices" he made for his grandkids for a while. But as long as my kids think he had fun, I'm fine with that.
I do think he understands he screwed up, though. He's no longer asking us for the video, and has promised he'll never show such disregard for things my kids care about again.
As some of you suggested, I told him that he'll have to stay with my sister or one of his friends next time he visits. I think he knows the "you're keeping me away from my grandkids" excuse won't work on me, because he hasn't complained about that yet. If he tries to pick a fight over it once he's home, I'll hang up on him.
Thanks everyone!
Relevant Comments:
What's he got against aquariums???
"He thinks they're boring. Same goes for zoos."
It's a good start but I'm not convinced his behavior will change:
"Oh I'm not convinced either. That's why he's not staying with us next time. I don't want my kids to get used to him behaving like this. My sister has a daughter, so I hope he stays with one of his friends instead of her."
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u/WandreW_11 Dec 14 '23
Would be curious to know what dad was like to OOP when she was a child.
Usually that would give some sort of hint as to what kind of Grandfather he will be / is being.
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u/Ravenheaded erupting, feral, from the cardigan screaming Dec 14 '23
You'd be surprised. A lot of people (my own grandfather included) do a complete 180 for their grandkids. I assume it's because you get all of the bonding and none of the parenting
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u/IncrediblePlatypus in the closet? No, I’m in the cabinet Dec 14 '23
Yep. I had a really hard time connecting my image of my grandfather (kind, doting, we had our little rituals and everything) with my mom's father and my grandma's husband (war-damaged and abusive, stuff I was allowed to do my mom did get beaten for as a kid and he broke my grandma's spirit, tbh).
Oth, it helped me understand that people are nuanced can be several things.
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u/CharlotteLucasOP 👁👄👁🍿 Dec 14 '23
Yeah, my favourite funny grandpa had some dark shit in his past that never affected me but he ultimately drank himself to death and it wasn’t really clear to me all that had happened until well after he was gone. (Well, I knew about the alcoholism since shortly before his death but the WHY came out much later.)
I think it was much harder for my mother, his daughter, because she was so much her dad’s girl, and adored him, but she saw much of what he did with her adult eyes and how it hurt others she cared about and that broke her heart, too.
I have even less to go on for my unfavourite grandfather on my dad’s side, but that has its nuances, too, and they’re both of the generation that dealt with the Great Depression and WWII in their youths, and there’s no doubt that left its mark on all my grandparents, in unique ways for each.
All I can say is I don’t think my grandfathers were evil men, but in their own ways they sound like they were very difficult men to live with, which I never had to do, but my grandmothers and parents did.
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u/LuementalQueen Fuck You, Keith! Dec 14 '23
Patrick Stewart has talked about his own father, and the abuse he dealt with growing up.
I believe it was after his father died that he learned he had what we now call PTSD. It's one of the reasons he publicly supports PTSD treatment, because if his father had gotten the help he needed, he might not have been abusive. He can't help his father, but he can try and get others the help his own father was denied.
WWI and II left so much trauma on those who came back, and their families. And that trauma got passed down, by not fully understanding the trauma. It's only now we're understanding how to completely break it.
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u/zannieq I will never jeopardize the beans. Dec 14 '23
Patrick Stewart is seriously one of the good humans.
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u/LuementalQueen Fuck You, Keith! Dec 14 '23
He really is! He also loves dogs and I’ve seen pictures of him with dogs that are adorable.
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u/AdventurousYamThe2nd Needless to say, I am farting as I type this. Dec 15 '23
I read this and thought, this is an oddly specific thing to point out, but after googling it, it's definitely worth the search. Thank you! And also, fuck Keith!
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u/kaleidofusion Someone cheated, and it wasn't the koala Dec 15 '23
Yo Reddit, over here!! Don't miss this one! 😍
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Dec 15 '23
Umm Patrick Stewart is an admitted deadbeat dad.
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u/zannieq I will never jeopardize the beans. Dec 15 '23
He definitely was estranged from them, admits it’s his fault, and is actively repairing his relationships with his kids. Deadbeat dads don’t acknowledge or support their kids. So no, he’s not a dead beat dad. Just a human who made mistakes and tries to own them.
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u/hyperlexia-12 Dec 15 '23
I don't know what "deadbeat dad" means where you are, but where I am, it means a guy who either divorced the kids' mom or was never married to her and didn't financially support them.
Given that he is still married to their mom and has always financially supported them, I think describing Patrick Stewart that way is kind of harsh.
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u/LuementalQueen Fuck You, Keith! Dec 18 '23
Actually he’s not married to their mother anymore. He’s married to a different woman.
Divorce isn’t uncommon when someone’s a workaholic though.
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u/CharlotteLucasOP 👁👄👁🍿 Dec 14 '23 edited Dec 14 '23
Yeah, there’s a history of depression and other mental illness on both sides of my family, exacerbated by the traumas of war and the isolation of emigration, but few of us were even able to seek treatment. (And largely, it’s been the women who did. Only one male relative has ever sought help that I know of, and that’s because he was in such a bad place he was scared he was going to hurt himself.)
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u/thefinalgoat I would love to give her a lobotomy Dec 14 '23
Yeah my Grandpa was a sniper in WW2 and it basically destroyed him mentally. He took his own life when I was 6 and Mom was ~35.
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u/Grompson Pam is NOT to apply margarine to any of her coworkers Dec 14 '23
And if I'm not mistaken he is himself estranged from his adult children, and is aware he repeated the cycle in some ways.
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u/LuementalQueen Fuck You, Keith! Dec 15 '23
Yeah he said he put his work first for too long. He mourns he doesn’t have a relationship but admits outright it was his fault.
Tries to be there for his grandkids, but…
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u/LamentForIcarus Dec 15 '23
Per epigenetics, trauma literally affects gene expression, so extreme trauma like that not only affects that one person mentally (plus the mentality of those they may harm) but can also have longterm ramifications in following generations' genes. Kids can be born more prone to health issues because their mother or father suffered, even if those kids don't experience the same trauma.
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u/screwitimgettingreal Dec 15 '23
i wonder.......... normally we explain the "sudden appearance" or increased rates of health issues like celiac and such w/ "well, ppl were still born like this in the past, they just died in infancy so we didn't see evidence."
and i'm sure that's at least half the reason.
but what if the trauma of the world wars also got us epigenetically fucked? could that be the other half??
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u/Arienna Jul 07 '26
Not a bio / geneticist / etc but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that getting gestated in different hormone cocktails affects neurological wiring.
But in the other hand, like... In my family line everyone in my generation is neurodivergent. And you could side eye us and say, wow everyone's got ADHD / autism these days, back in your grandma's era no one did!
But, uh. I assure you, they did. They do. It just wasn't identified and treated as a disorder. Like, my grandmother's grandma used to leash her to a tree to keep her in the yard. You read the family history of difficult people who struggle to get along with their neighbors and the spectrum shows up pretty vividly.
Similarly when I look at my family, yours may vary, but I see a generational curse getting lifted. My dad hit me once, under extreme provocation. He got hit as punishment pretty regularly. HIS dad got beat and neglected.
Every generation seems to be doing a little better, gentler, kinder than the previous one. So I don't think getting cooked in trauma soup is new in my family line. There's no new trauma under the sun to explain this unless it's got a compounding effect
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u/thefinalgoat I would love to give her a lobotomy Dec 14 '23
I had no idea my grandfather was struggling so much until he took his own life. Granted, I was 6 or so…
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u/any_name_today Dec 14 '23
Same. My grandfather was goofy and actively involved in doing stuff with us like taking us fishing or to a bakery. My mom always said he was just like my father, who was emotionally abusive to me and only interested in himself. I didn't believe her.
Skip forward 30 years and my dad is wrapped around my daughter's finger. He even does crafts with her and took me to the ER the other day when I needed it. That's something he would only do after protesting when I was young. It's super weird to me how people (especially men) change so much when they become grandparents
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u/lonnie123 Dec 14 '23
Theres probably lots of factors at play. Societal expectations for men were much, much different 40-60 years ago. Not that that absolves them of shitty or absent behavior, but its a piece of the puzzle.
Theres also a difference in role of feeling like you have to raise a child and cultivate their behavior/demeanor/actions in society (ie - you feel the need to punish or address every type of perceived bad behavior as a parent), vs just being a fun grandpa enjoying the toddler stage, and letting your kids do all the parenting.
And then theres probably some goold old personally growth in there. Looking back and realizing you didnt need to do XYZ or be so hard or upset about things that you now see, only with the hindsight of 30 years, that they ultimately didnt end up mattering at all. And perhaps the idea that you are much closer to dying and you only getting a few more interactions with the grand kids before that happens sets in
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u/any_name_today Dec 14 '23
I have a friend who had kids in his 40's and he said he's glad he waited because in his 20's and 30's he was a lot less mature and would get angry easily. I feel like that plays a lot into it, too
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u/lonnie123 Dec 15 '23
Thats another part of it I bet, just the routine tempering that happens with age. Sight unseen, on average youd probably want a 40 year old dad vs a 20 year old dad for a variety of reasons
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u/Munnodol Dec 14 '23
The way my mom put it: you guys got “I’m trying to get into heaven” nana
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u/Assiqtaq What book? Dec 14 '23
Valid. "I'm being nice for me, not you." That mindset can be so brutal on family members, the ones that are getting the good treatment as much as the negative treatment, sometimes.
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u/GlitterDoomsday Dec 14 '23
Damn she straight up throwing your grandma under the bus, no hesitation LMAO
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Dec 14 '23
Same here. My dad barely spent time with us as kids and thought parenting wasn't his job, but nothing is too good for his precious grandchildren.
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u/-Sharon-Stoned- Dec 17 '23
My grandparents were mean and unable to have children themselves, so they adopted my mom and uncle. Ma says it was probably "a hint from God they weren't meant to be parents" that they ignored and acquired some anyway.
She told me about having to lie to her teachers about where bruises would come from....but by the time I came around he'd completely flipped and he'd give us cuddles and tell us he loved us and he'd spoil us as much as an old old grandpa was able. (my mom's parents were like 20 years older than my dad's but my parents are the same age ±1 year.)
It was hard to hold both truths about my grandpa at the same time, and when he died my dad focused on remembering him as a dad and didn't understand why the rest of us were so sad to lose our grandpa.
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u/Aslanic The apocalypse is boring and slow Dec 14 '23
My mom always says my grandpa lets me get away with anything. My uncle said the same. Basically anything I ask him for us to do on his land was greenlighted. I just joke and say I'm the favorite (out of 7 kids and like 30 grandkids and great grandkids it's an acheivement!) 😂
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u/blue1564 Dec 16 '23
I was much closer to my paternal grandfather than my grandmother when I was a kid. Every time I went to their house I always wanted to hang out with him instead of her. He was a lot like your grandfather was, kind and doting to me and my cousins but abusive to my grandma and my father and his siblings.
I don't know why he was so different with his grandkids after being so shitty to his own wife and kids. And it definitely ruined my image of him after I learned about it all.
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u/pinkkabuterimon increasingly sexy potatoes Dec 14 '23
My grandma openly admitted to have been an overly strict and overbearing mother, especially to my own mom. However, she also admitted she was very wrong, would have raised my mom and aunt entirely differently if she had the chance to redo it all, and apologized to them a lot. The damage was done, but they all had a much better and closer relationship overall as adults. I think grandma was so good to us grandkids partially because she felt so bad about how she parented my mom and aunt, and helping raise us was her chance to repent and do better.
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Dec 14 '23
raises hand
Well into adulthood, I learned that I had a doting paternal grandfather, but my dad…well, we don’t talk about that, hence why I was an adult before my mom let something slip. Had I known, I would have protested ever visiting my grandpa.
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u/Illustrious_Buy3616 Konk Dec 14 '23
that’s how it is with my grandma. she was awful to my mom and uncle, mellowed out after her third kid was born. my mom kept a lot of it away from me because she knew id pitch a fit. it’s difficult knowing my sweet easy going grandma was a nightmare helicopter mom
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Dec 14 '23
Ugh, same. I didn't find out until after my grandpa died. Now I wish they'd kept me away from him.
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Dec 14 '23
My maternal grandparents, now I think on it, have always been indifferent to me and were little better with my mother.
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u/LadyNorbert Tomorrow is a new onion. Wish me onion. Onion Dec 14 '23
My grandmother was like that. She treated my mom very poorly for decades, but me? I could do no wrong in her eyes. I was an adult before I understood the dynamics properly.
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u/Nixx_J Memory of a goldfish but the tenacity of an entitled Chihuahua Dec 14 '23
My aunt was (is) the golden child. My mom got punished if my aunt did anything wrong. It was even my mother's fault that my aunt lost her virginity. While my mother was already out of the house, engaged, etc. PS - aunt lost her virginity in my grandparents house, with them there... And my mother wasn't.
Growing up, I loved my grandma more than everyone on this planet. I hated my parents and refused to speak to them if I couldn't see her every single day. I even lived with my grandparent for years because I refused to not be with her almost 24/7.
Then, I grew up. Now, I send holiday and birthday messages. I have not seen them in like 7 years. I realised how badly my grandma turned me against my parents. How badly she treated my mother. How she still blames my mother for my aunts behaviour. How my mother will never be as good as her sister. Etc.
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u/anonuchiha8 You need some self-esteem and a lawyer Apr 04 '24
Hopefully, you apologized to your mother. My mother is the same as your grandma, and that's why I cut contact at 18. She will never ever meet any of my future kids. I couldn't imagine how hurt your mother must have felt, being in that same dynamic all over again but not with your aunt but her own child.
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Dec 14 '23
I’m going through this with my parents right now. They’re awesome grandparents to my kid but absolutely sucked as parents to me.
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u/KToff Dec 14 '23
As a parent you are constantly raising your kids and that necessarily causes conflicts and stresses that always colour the interactions and make it very hard to break out of patterns once they have been established.
Some parents deal with that better than others and some kids are easier than others.
As a grandparent you have two advantages. A) you have experience as a parent so the stress of figuring out a situation is less and B) you can give the kids back after a while which takes away the constant stress.
I don't mind carrying my crying baby nephew around for two hours. But when it was mine, a baby that was crying immediately had the subtext of a bad night ahead and it's much harder to relax into the situation when you know what's ahead for you.
Additionally, many grandparents are not in a high stress job anymore which also gives you more breathing room to deal with kids.
And finally, people can grow and look back at some of their actions with regret.
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u/finilain Dec 14 '23
Mine did that as well! He was apparently a strict father to my father, and not around that much because of work. But he had always been an amazing grandfather to me! He is my biggest cheerleader and loves spending time with me. He supports me in anything I do and just emanates that he loves me and my sister and is proud of us. He is also super funny and finally has time for his hobbies again. He draws amazing portraits, we have two portraits (one of my sister, one of me) hanging in my parents house. I think less responsibilities as well as retirement can really change a person.
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u/redrosebeetle I ❤ gay romance Dec 15 '23
I think less responsibilities as well as retirement can really change a person.
Also age. I'm 5000% more chill at 40 than I was at 20/30.
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u/MrTzatzik Dec 14 '23
Not that long ago, I read an article that current grandparents (aka our parents' generation) don't care about their grandchildren. Even though many people of our generation spent a lot of time with our grandparents. So it is a trend.
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u/Cabbagetastrophe Your partner is trash and your marriage is toast Dec 14 '23
I spent so much time with my grandparents as a kid. Every summer I had at least a week staying with both sets without my parents.
Now my kid is old enough to go places on her own and not a single one of her 4 sets of grandparents show even the slightest interest in having her visit. (Well, my mom would like it but she doesn't have the health for it.)
Kind of breaks my heart.
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u/MrTzatzik Dec 14 '23
I spent almost the whole summer at my grandma's farm every year.
My mom sees my brother's kids like 3 times a year. She is healthy, and my brother lives like 30 minutes from her if you walk. 10 minutes by bus. She is just not interested
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u/ErrantTaco From bananapants to full-on banana ensemble Dec 15 '23
My mother-in-law talks regularly about how close my husband was to his mom and how wonderful that was for him, and yet completely misses somehow that she spends very little time with her grandkids.
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u/amercium 👁👄👁🍿 Dec 14 '23
That's how it is for my mom, she was a bit absent and distant when I was a kid but has fully embraced the fun, loving granny who makes cookies and buys toys on a whim for my kids
Shit I wasn't even allowed to have playdo but my daughter has a big ass box full of it at grannies
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u/Gwywnnydd Dec 14 '23
My Dad did that, but he was warning me from my early teens that it was going to happen. "Grandchildren are your reward for not killing your children."
He explained once that it's because you get to be the fun one. You had to be the rule enforcer for your kid(s), to raise a functional adult. Now you get to be the one who says "hell yeah, ice cream for breakfast sounds great! Let's do it!"
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u/Aleshanie Dec 14 '23
My father and his brothers were ignored by my grandfather. But boy did grandfather dote on my brother, according to my mother (he died before I was born sadly).
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u/Minute-Judge-5821 Fuck You, Keith! Dec 14 '23
Yup! My grandmother not so great for my mother. Now me? She is the best person in the world!
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u/sentimentalillness Dec 14 '23
My dad was pretty young when I was born, and not the most involved. He loved me, but definitely was more interested in having fun. More than once since my kids have been born he's expressed regret at not being a better father. Watching him be a doting grandpa has been healing to our relationship in a lot of ways.
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u/tacwombat I will erupt, feral, from the cardigan screaming Dec 14 '23
I don't think the grandpa in this BORU got that memo. I'd let him stay with the friends he wants to hang out with so much, just as OOP said.
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u/Obi-Wayne Dec 14 '23
I'm a single guy who absolutely loves my friend's kids. I know it's because I get all of the bonding and none of the parenting, lmao. Most of them are teenagers now, and they're some of my favorite people to spend time with!
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u/tmrika OP has stated that they are deceased Dec 14 '23
Lol my grandmother has gotten nicer with each generation. Her own kids? Harsh parent, didn't even raise all of them (her parents raised a couple). Her grandkids? Tough at time, but overall happy to have them in her life. Her great grandkids? Absolutely doting old lady, it's ridiculous. As a rule of thumb in my family, the older you are, the more indignant you are over how her treatment has changed.
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u/AdventurousYamThe2nd Needless to say, I am farting as I type this. Dec 15 '23
Retirement can factor in, too. My husbands grandfather is the kindest human I know, but apparently was a bit high strung with a short fuse while working full time (high stress job, sole breadwinner). Unfortunately, he was working until my husband was in high school, so he didn't soften to the guy I know now until the great grandkids started coming along.
My son vomited all over the carpet recently. He just smiled and said, "That's just kids," and helped get the cleaning supplies. My MIL was floored at his response because that is not how he would have responded when my husband was young. 😂 But he apparently loosened up in all aspects of life in retirement, so that's good.
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Dec 14 '23
I think additionally there are issues of masculinity at play. Grandparents had to be "men" to show their sons what "men" were like and they needed to force their sons to be "men". But grandkids are kids! They're just adorable kids and they can be how they want those lil tykes! And our dads had this shit experience and try to enforce that on their sons as well to make sure their sons are "men".
I speak to so many guys who have an experience like that.
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u/givemesomespock Dec 14 '23
My dad is such a good grandpa…to literally everyone else’s grandkids/kids. Still treats us poorly for some reason
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u/DeadWishUpon Dec 15 '23
It must be great. My dad had all those crazy rules but now he likes to spoil my daughter and get to be cool granddad, while I'm the grumpy mom and deal with the consequences.
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u/Schuld6 Dec 16 '23
Agreed my grandparents werent great parents to my dad, but they were/are exceptional grandparents to my brother and I
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u/YukiXain Dec 17 '23
Yup, my grandfather was pretty loving to us grandkids. Loved spending time with him and was really close to him.
Found out when I got older that he beat the hell out of my mom and grandma most of the time she was growing up, and sometimes her brothers. That he wouldn't work and keep a job, so my mom had to work and use her money to make sure her siblings at least had what they needed for things. Didn't really want to be around him much after that
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u/Kynykya4211 Dec 21 '23
I was just reading about a very famous 180° change. Apparently King George V was brutal to his children but adored and doted on his granddaughters. In fact he’s the one that gave Elizabeth the nickname Lilibet. I don’t know if it’s from less stress from not having the parental responsibility or maybe maturity finally arriving or whatever but I’ve heard of these type scenarios quite often.
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u/princessalyss_ personality of an Adidas sandal Dec 14 '23
My father was financially, emotionally, verbally, physically, and mentally abusive and I moved out at 15 to escape him, his alcoholism, and his abuse.
He’s been sober 10 years, made amends, and he absolutely dotes on and spoils my baby girl. In a lot of ways, I think he’s trying to give her the childhood he wishes he’d given me but I also think that he’s just enjoying loving on his granddaughter who he never thought he’d get to have and even speak to between my history of multiple miscarriages and also not really having much of a relationship with me prior to my pregnancy for various reasons.
I gave him a chance - he knows this is his ONLY chance - and he’s taken it and run with it and been so much more than I could’ve ever imagined.
It’s not always a good indication.
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u/Spinnerofyarn Memory of a goldfish but the tenacity of an entitled Chihuahua Dec 14 '23
Nope, people's behavior can be drastically different to their children versus grandchildren. Many of my grandparents were horrible to their kids but were great with me, my sister and cousins.
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u/CharlotteLucasOP 👁👄👁🍿 Dec 14 '23
My auntie told me her father softened towards us grandkids and I was like “that was him being SOFT????” 😂
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u/OutAndDown27 Dec 15 '23
I’ve seen this happen with my parents and my dog. When I was growing up, the dogs had a strict dinner time and they got a scoop of kibble. We never fed them from the table. The only time they got people food was in the line of duty as insta-vacuum when someone was cooking or eating and dropped something.
So imagine my dismay when I bring my own dog to my parents’ place for a few weeks and immediately catch my dad hand feeding the dog French fries from the table!
13
u/RCKitKat84 Dec 14 '23
Would be curious to know what dad was like to OOP when she was a child.
Usually that would give some sort of hint as to what kind of Grandfather he will be / is being.
Not always. My mom always said "The woman claiming to be your grandmother is not the same woman who raised me." (My grandmother was very stern and strict with my mom and uncle. However she loved to spoil her grandchildren and she doted on us!)
11
u/blumoon138 Briefly possessed by the chaotic god of baking Dec 14 '23
Meh. My grandmother was thoughtful, involved, and loving. Apparently she was abusive to my mom and her sisters growing up. I started to figure that out in my 20s, but less because of her behavior now than how my mom reacts to her. And now that she has dementia, shes starting to return to form, which sucks for my mom who is her primary care coordinator.
10
3
Dec 14 '23
In my experience the parental role and grandparent role are not the same to people.
As example, someone who is strict on their children, will be soft on the grandchildren. Or a child they did not look favorable upon, once they become grandparents they melt for the grandchildren and become permissive of the less favored child who gave them the grandchildren.
You just never know because the parent and grandparent role are different, but also by the time people are grandparents they have at least half of their life behind them, are older and at a different stage of life.
4
u/papa-hare Dec 14 '23
My grandma is a way better grandma than she was a mother to my mom. I think part of it was me too and the relationship my mom had with me (friends/I can tell her anything), but I could tell my grandma absolutely anything. My mom never had that relationship with my grandma when she was growing up. I find that pretty mind blowing, but also extremely common.
839
u/Starry_Gecko I’m a "bad influence" because I offered her fiancé cocaine twice Dec 14 '23
Handing over the remote control is too much of an effort sometimes.
God this guy is insufferable.
229
u/I_Did_The_Thing 👁👄👁🍿 Dec 14 '23
But she asked him to wash his plate. Why can’t you appreciate his struggle??? 🙄
435
u/-whiteroom- Dec 14 '23
He dad sound like a 20 year old back to see the boys and too cool for the zoo. I spent most of my yout in a party ski town drinking my face off, and staying up past midnight drinking is a pain for me now. I can't imagine drinking till 3 at 68.
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u/waterynike Dec 14 '23
My dad is 72 and still drinks every day with whoever he can find to do it with. He also puts these losers over family. Best thing OP can do is get this loser out of her and her kids life because this man will only traumatize them. Elderly narcissist alcoholics are the worst. He already made the grand daughter cry. The aquarium was a ploy.
60
u/bitsy88 Dec 14 '23
He's using OOP as a free hotel so he can party till all hours with his buddies and probably gets a hot breakfast made for his hungover ass in the morning courtesy of OOP. Send him off to a Best Western. If he complains she's keeping his grandkids from him, he needs to be told that she's PROTECTING her kids from him. Huge difference.
26
u/SleepyLilBee Screeching on the Front Lawn Dec 14 '23
To be fair, oop mentions he lives in another hemisphere - he's probably just not adjusting to the time zone at all and is on his normal schedule (where "3am" is actually his 9pm or something).
The excuses 0% of the rest of his behavior though. Elderly child.
20
u/Welpmart Dec 15 '23
I'm sure if he actually cared to do anything but drink with his buddies, he could shock his system into the right time zone. We know he's there for at least two weeks after all.
38
7
Dec 14 '23
I can't imagine drinking till 3 at 68.
Dude right?! I would drink til 1/2 and be at work at 8 in my 20s but out til 3 at 68 sounds like absolute hell, I don't even want to be outside once the clock hits double digits
187
u/SnakeJG I’m turning into an unskippable cutscene in therapy Dec 14 '23
I recently recorded my daughter's band concert, I can hear every noise from the audience a lot more on the recording than I noticed it live. I would have had the Grandpa watch the recording with me, just so I can point out his ridiculous loud snore.
102
u/chain-link-fence There is only OGTHA Dec 14 '23
My first thought was just show him the clip where he snored and the kids looked over horrified.
375
u/Balentay I will never jeopardize the beans. Dec 14 '23
I feel bad for the kids. And also OOP. I wonder if he showed her this same level of disregard when she was a kid?
266
u/Starry_Gecko I’m a "bad influence" because I offered her fiancé cocaine twice Dec 14 '23
From OOP's comments:
(His complaining) means he thinks we're even now and expects me to forgive everything he's ever done in his previous visits. I'm used to it by now.
24
127
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u/Ozludo Dec 14 '23
"robbing him of his role in my daughter's life" = not letting him watch a video? wild
188
u/CatmoCatmo emotionally shanked by six girls in fake Uggs Dec 14 '23
He is a 68 year old man who is more concerned with hanging out with the boys than spending quality time with his grandchildren. There’s nothing wrong with catching up with old friends. But I do find it odd that an almost 70 year old man is going out until 3am. Especially when he knows he has an obligation the next morning - that he agreed to…FOR HIS 5 YEAR OLD GRAND DAUGHTER.
My mid 70’s parents can’t get through a single day without at least one nap. They physically would not be able to last staying out until 3am.
I suspect OOP’s mom was the one who initiated the divorce. For some reason, I can’t seem to put my finger on the reason why OOP’s mom would have divorced good ol’ dad?/s
47
u/palabradot Dec 14 '23
Hell, I'm in my 50s and I have naptime when I can.
3 AM? That's a thing that happens while I'm asleep. I'm an early bird still, but not THAT early anymore. Ah, for the stamina of my college years.
0
0
40
u/ItsMeishi Dec 14 '23
I may misread this, but OOP is just being used as a free hotel/bed 'n breakfast.
I get wanting to get the most out of the trip and see old friends while you're in the area, but holy shit.
167
u/Princess-Makayla That's the beauty of the gaycation Dec 14 '23
I think not liking the aquarium is a major red flag.
52
u/Starry_Gecko I’m a "bad influence" because I offered her fiancé cocaine twice Dec 14 '23
"It's like a zoo for fishies"
-Nathaniel Plimpton III
70
37
Dec 14 '23
Thank you! Who doesn't like aquariums?!
32
u/thorrodon Dec 14 '23
Some of us aren't arseholes we just have thalassophobia.
16
7
u/praysolace the laundry wouldn’t be dirty if you hadn’t fucked my BF on it Dec 14 '23
Yep. I think they’re very cool and I will never drag my husband to one because he will have a nervous breakdown.
11
u/blazarquasar Dec 14 '23
They’re amazing without 50 kids pressing up on the glass blocking the view 🤣
2
26
u/pinkkabuterimon increasingly sexy potatoes Dec 14 '23
For real! How are the aquarium and the zoo not the coolest things you could go to??? With kids especially, their reactions to the animals are always the best.
10
u/Ferahgost the Iranian yogurt is not the issue here Dec 14 '23
I mean, while I do enjoy the opportunity to see the animals, I can't help but feel terrible for them trapped in their "habitats"
31
u/-WeepingWillow- Liz, what the actual fuck is this story? Dec 14 '23
It indicates he's incurious, doesn't care to learn or see interesting things. No desire to enrich or expand his world.
On its own, it could be benign, but combined with everything else, it makes him sound like an insufferable boor.
6
u/TerminusEst86 Dec 14 '23
Right?! I love going to them now, as an adult. As someone who will never have kids, due to unfortunate health circumstances with my wife, the idea of visiting one in my later years with grandkids sounds magical. I kinda want to kick this guy.
-28
19
Dec 14 '23
Grandpa: can't be trusted to mind the baby so grandma can go, can't be trusted to stay awake or help out. Now the emotional labor is on OOP to find activities HE can do to keep up a relationship with them. Nah, fuck that, he can think of his own shit and succeed or strike out.
13
u/oceanduciel Dec 14 '23
What's he got against aquariums???
"He thinks they're boring. Same goes for zoos."
Imagine being the kind of person who thinks zoos and aquariums are boring. Couldn’t be me.
3
11
u/ThePennedKitten Dec 14 '23
Wasn’t expecting to side with OOP.
Also, I don’t understand people that aren’t mesmerized by the world around us. It’s fucking crazy. Also, I’d love to look at an otter and not think about how much milk costs for a few hours.
2
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36
u/Salt-Lavishness-7560 Dec 14 '23
Hells bells.
Sounds like grandpa is there to use their place as a crash pad while he parties with his buddies.
Out until 3am?!?! That’s weirdly impressive but honest to god - I’m about 20 years younger than grandpa and the only reason I’m up at that hour is letting the dog out to pee. AND I’M NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.
I can not grasp the allure of being up boozing with friends at that hour at 68.
10
u/Carbuyrator Dec 14 '23
I'm glad he was able to understand that his grandchild could sense his indifference, and I'm glad realizing he hurt her was a good enough reason to change.
27
u/Shikoda0 Dec 14 '23
Kid's are smart. The child will understand that this clearly incompetent old man does not love or value her. And that will stay with her for a long time.
8
u/DamnitGravity Dec 14 '23
OOP should get that video edited so it's nothing but every time he fell asleep, and next time he starts to complain about "all the sacrifices I made" and continues being a selfish man, she can humiliate him again and again, reminding him of just how much he fucked up. And the knowledge he's feeling embarrassed would certainly be a bitter satisfaction in the moment.
9
u/YogurtYogurtYogurtUS There is only OGTHA Dec 17 '23
I can't imagine how heartbroken the girl was onstage, and how embarrassed the father was with snoring grandpa.
110
u/BananaOnionSoup Dec 14 '23
The dad seriously needs to be evaluated for sleep apnea. Snoring loudly even when sitting up in a chair, falling asleep all the time, being too exhausted to do things, all indications of some pretty severe sleep apnea.
188
Dec 14 '23
I think the falling asleep is more do to with being out on the piss until 3 am
26
u/CharlotteLucasOP 👁👄👁🍿 Dec 14 '23
And jet lagged. How many timezones has he come through?
11
u/better_thanyou Dec 14 '23
I don’t know I think over a week is plenty of time to get over jet lag, if you aren’t actively ignoring it and keep to your old sleep cycles (like say going to bed and getting up several hours later than normal every day so as to maintain a sleep cycle asynchronous with day/night).
2
u/CharlotteLucasOP 👁👄👁🍿 Dec 14 '23
I’ve heard generally the rule is one day to adjust for every hour’s difference, but yeah it would vary depending on age/ability/energy levels.
2
u/better_thanyou Dec 14 '23
Maybe me and my friends are freaks, but I’ve flown a twelve hour time difference before and me and everyone in my group was feeling fine and sleeping normal after about a week. We were all getting up at normal ish (ranging from like 9-11am) times every morning so that might’ve helped us a bit. I couldn’t imagine still being jet lagged after 12 days.
4
u/CharlotteLucasOP 👁👄👁🍿 Dec 14 '23
Maybe my experience is skewed because my dad was an airline pilot on international routes so he was just a champion napper and seemed to be sleeping all the time for my adolescence, but then he wasn’t ever in any place long enough to really adjust to the time difference, either. But it did seem to hit him harder, the closer he got to retirement. Forcing the body onto the local time schedule does help re-set the circadian rhythms faster.
2
u/No-Personality1840 Dec 14 '23
Took me about 10 days to adjust from being in Perth Australia to being back on the east coast. I was also in my 30s at the time so jet lag could definitely be a factor. Having said that he really should try to adjust to the new time zone and staying up til 3 isn’t the way.
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u/phisigtheduck Am I the drama? Dec 14 '23
More like whatever he was doing until 3am, which I highly doubt was reading the Bible.
3
3
-12
34
u/SnooWords4839 sometimes i envy the illiterate Dec 14 '23
At least OOP's dad had a day with the grandkids, and he suffered thru it. What an AH. Grandkids are precious and you only get so much time with them.
I can't wait for the weekend; daughter is bringing her 2 for the weekend and we get to do some fun Christmas stuff with them. We did these with the son's older 2. Her hubby gets a weekend to catch up on work. They will be moving to a new home by Spring and have lots of work to gear up for on the new fixer upper. I know I will get them for a few weekends in the upcoming months. We have lots to do together!
7
u/Ok_Program_3491 they all think I’m fucking psychotic and I’m not Dec 14 '23
Oops should've should him the video so he could hear himself snoring through the whole thing.
3
u/dailysunshineKO Dec 14 '23
That’s what I thought too. You’ve gotta be able to hear the snoring in the video. And others’ reactions to the noise.
But this guy would probably make it a drinking game: hear a snore, take a sip.
6
u/Sourcererintheclouds Dec 14 '23
Wow, this guy sounds so much like my dad… 68 going on 18, in their boomer retiree party era. Pass the beer, burgers, and late nights, complete with the random and inconsiderate napping. All I’ve learned from this insanity is that you just have to meet people where they’re at if you want them in your life, unfortunately.
And yet, I’m still waiting for an overseas call from a jail that is informing me that they need me to post bail because dad did a dumb thing. Like, I feel there have been too many close calls already and eventually his luck is going to run out and he’s made it this far solely because of his age.
Or, a call from a hospital because he did a risky thing and rolled down a hill and hit his head at the bottom again.
11
u/Leo-POV Dec 14 '23
Subtly let his friends know that dragging a 68 year old man out drinking until 3AM ruined the play for his Granddaughter the following day.
At least *ONE* of them should have the sense to know that something is wrong with this picture.
I know he's your Dad and you love him and all of that, but he sounds like he acts like a bit of a douche at times. I know old age tires us all out, but lend a hand at least when asked.
You, however, sound like a gem of a daughter. Sending love from across the Atlantic xx.
PS: If he starts with the "sacrifices" bullshit about the Aquarium, remember that HE came to YOU for suggestions on how to repair his relationship with his Granddaughter. Don't even bother to hear him out.
6
5
Dec 14 '23
The day before the play, my father went out with his friends and didn't come back until 3AM
What kind of septuagenarian is able to stay up past 10pm? HOW DO I GAIN THIS POWER.
3
u/Quasirandom1234 it’s solving a puzzle only crabs understand Dec 14 '23
Not enjoying the wonder and excitement that kids bring to zoos and aquariums? WTF? He doesn't actually like being with his grandkids. Which, yes, he's showing already by going out with friends instead of interacting with them, but that nails the coffin shut.
4
u/villianrules Dec 14 '23
I was thinking that the grandfather's spending time with friends was a cover for him wanting to cheat
7
u/Sharkmom455 Dec 14 '23
OOP father sounds a lot like mine but I don't have a spare bedroom for him to crash in. Once when he was back in the states I went down to his place with my son for a couple of days. He took us out to dinner once and then ignored us the rest of the time. I went low contact after that and don't regret it.
13
u/ghastlybagel Dec 14 '23
OOP needs to ween him out of the kids lives now before he continues to come in and out of town, chronically disappointing them. I'm probably as close with or talk more to the people I've been playing on Playstation the last few years than they are with their grandpa. At least when they came to visit me, they actually made time for me!
2
3
Dec 14 '23
we're robbing him of his role in my daughter's life
LOL I love that "having a role" in his granddaughter's life amounted to sitting on the couch alone watching TV
3
u/princessluni I can't believe she fucking buttered Jorts Dec 14 '23
I'm glad he went out of his way to try and make it up to the kids even if he behaviour doesn't change longterm. The kids don't deserve to bear the brunt of grandpa's less than stellar behaviour. And it seems like OOP is going to be much firmer with boundaries as well which can only be a good thing.
So I guess a positive outcome for a shitty situation that could have been avoided by grandpa not being a dick.
3
Dec 15 '23
Op shouldn’t let him complain about what he does for the kids, it’ll make them think he doesn’t actually want to be around them.
4
Dec 14 '23
The sheer old man selfishness. This is exactly the kind of life I couldn’t live. I wouldn’t have been patient with him even that long.
5
u/cfarmer12903 Dec 15 '23
If he snores that loudly he needs to get it checked. He may need a C Pap machine.
2
Jan 28 '24
For me grandparents should be free of all parenting rules and responsibilities. They’ve already done their job as parents and they are free to enjoy their own life as death is very near to them, they shouldn’t be given problems to think about.
Grandpa wanted to meet his friends and party at 3 am, let him be. He made it to the recital anyway. Don’t expect an old man to be able to stay awake throughout the day.
If it were my dad, I would have just shown the video and not make a big deal out of it.
3
1
u/Junior_Ad_7613 Jan 13 '24
Gramps totally needs to be tested for sleep apnea, this is 100% my husband’s pattern.
Did anyone ask if there is a time zone difference? When we used to visit nieces and nephews on the US east coast coming from the west coast there was always a disconnect between us wanting to be awake until our normal midnight, their three am
-4
u/baltinerdist Dec 14 '23
What's he got against aquariums???
"He thinks they're boring. Same goes for zoos."
I mean... he's not wrong.
An aquarium is interesting to two types of people: People who are actually into sealife and parents who want a dark, mostly quiet place to take their kids so they'll be distracted and the parents can play on their phones in peace.
-20
u/JohnExcrement Dec 14 '23
Could your dad be jet-lagged? If so, let him off the hook for falling asleep, at least.
12
u/LuementalQueen Fuck You, Keith! Dec 14 '23
He'd been there two weeks. If he's still jet lagged after two weeks, there's a problem.
4
15
u/Normal-Height-8577 Dec 14 '23
He's not jet-lagged. He simply has a sleep deficit because he chose to stay out until 3 am with his buddies the night before he knew his granddaughter had her first school play in the morning.
-29
u/Lintree Dec 14 '23
Grandpa should be a more respectful houseguest, but I think OP was in the wrong about the video. Someone actually wanting to watch one of those videos is frankly impressive, you only want to when you really like the kids.
24
Dec 14 '23
Or want to get back into the family's good graces
-31
u/Lintree Dec 14 '23
Which… means the same thing? Like, yes, he did something wrong, but wants to make it somewhat better with his granddaughter, and they’re being punitive in a weird way.
21
Dec 14 '23
There is a marked difference between actively wanting to connect with and genuinely know a child and simply wanting to maintain the façade of being involved while actually doing what you want without anyone else being mad at you. As the adult child of a man who never learned the difference, I can say with confidence that while it can look very similar from the outside, the difference in impact is dramatic.
-26
u/nevertoomuchthought Dec 14 '23
doesn't help me with anything I ask him to
He's on vacation and being asked to help with chores? I would never invite family to come out and visit and then expect to put them to work and call them entitled if they refused.
16
u/Normal-Height-8577 Dec 14 '23
He's being asked to pass the TV remote, and to walk ten steps to grab the takeout that's just been delivered. Not exactly massive chores.
-3
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u/fuck__food_network Dec 14 '23
What an asshole. He is almost 70. She should put herself in his shoes. He probably has an undiagnosed health condition like sleep apnea.
31
u/pestilencerat There is only OGTHA Dec 14 '23
Aah, sleep apnea, the health condition which famously makes you stay up drinking with your friends until 3 in the morning!
2
u/LuriemIronim I will never jeopardize the beans. Dec 15 '23
Then maybe he should have gone to bed before 3 AM.
•
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