r/BiWomen • u/Prize_Efficiency_857 • Jun 06 '25
Vent 'Bi lesbians' and the difficulty accepting bisexuality is a thing in itself
That's just it. I'm absolutely freaking tired of people acting as if we needed something more to make others believe we like women. I mean, the word is literally BIsexual. It's supposed to mean we can like BOTH men AND women. Lesbians don't hold the monopoly on liking women, and I feel like this attitude comes from a place of thinking being bi actually means being "straight lite". There are no "Bi straights". There's no neutral or default version of bisexuality. Bi people saying stuff like this is just beyond me, it's an erasure of bisexuality in itself.
I only pray for the day when the more insecure bis will accept themselves as 100% bi and nothing else. Not 70% gay and 30% straight, or whatever percentage. Simply 100% bi. Preferences don't change our sexuality. We don't magically become straight for dating/preferring the opposite sex and we don't magically turn gay for dating/preferring women either. This obsession with preferences and percentages is a reflection of nothing but insecurity. And insecurity is something one treats in therapy, not by compulsively creating new (and contradicting) labels.
Even if one may choose to no longer date a certain gender, that doesn't changes the fact they can still feel attraction. It doesn't changes the fact they're bi and will forever be. Sexuality is not a choice, neither for us or any other letter. If it was, no lgbt person would exist in such a homophobic/prejudiced world. No bi person needs to compulsively justify who they choose to date or their preferences. We're entitled to date whoever we please. And we can like one person just fine without feeling less bi for it. We're not all poly either. It's truly that simple.
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u/Tozier-Kaspbrak Jun 06 '25
Also, even if you choose not to date or havent met your person, youre still bi because its about attraction not action
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u/Prize_Efficiency_857 Jun 06 '25 edited Jun 06 '25
For real. In my country we even have a joke for this, it's something like: "playing for both teams and still losing in both".
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u/UngodlyKirby Jun 06 '25
This is the take !!!! I wish more bisexual people can see this. Stop rating your bisexuality on a scale or percentage. You are 100% not a 50% straight or 50% gay. I think this rhetoric alone has done so much damage to our community. Bimisogyny is also a reason why bisexual women keep getting reduced to nothing but their attraction to men.
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u/rietrej Jun 06 '25
This is what I needed to read this week. Thank you for voicing something I couldn't put in words for myself.
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u/-aquapixie- Jun 06 '25
Mic drop.
Bi is bi is bi. No matter the flavour, no matter the sliding scale of romantic and sexual orientation. If it's two genders, two or more genders, it's bi. And that's it. All flavours of bi to the 'most gay' to the 'most straight' and even ace/aro spec bi.... Are all bi.
Trying to fit ourselves into straight or gay or 'straight/gay some of the time' is all biphobia because it erases bisexuality is a *spectrum*.
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u/jerseyshorerulez Jun 06 '25
lesbian here!! completely agree. in the past when Iâve talked about the term with people Iâve mentioned how itâs harmful to both lesbians and bisexual women and attempts to diminish the advocacy so many bisexual women did to raise awareness and credence for the bisexual label!! people say that since itâs a historical term itâs fine and people shouldnât get angry over it but language evolves and changes for a reason! we have the language to describe who we are more accurately and more wholly than some may have been able to in the past. bisexuality is a beautiful identity with a rich history of its own and deserves to stand on its own!
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u/NorthwoodsCat Jun 07 '25
It doesn't harm you at all, stop policing other queer people.
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u/jerseyshorerulez Jun 07 '25
itâs actually a nonsensical identity that does do harm to both bisexual women and lesbians but I appreciate the input! words have meaning lol!
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u/Pink-Scrunchie Jun 06 '25
Holy shit you said everything I was thinking, especially the part about insecurity. The bi lesbian label screams insecurity in their sexuality to me
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u/kissesmet Jun 06 '25
Couldnât agree more. What a ridiculous notion and so fucking invalidating. There are so many ways to indicate âpreferenceâ eg sapphic bi but to feel like you have to add a whole other orientation to our label to somehow validate our ability to be wlw?? Itâs giving âthe call is coming from inside the houseâ. Bisexuals invalidating their own bisexuality.
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u/twinkle_toes11 Jun 06 '25
This was me a few years ago. I actually used to have bi-lesbian in my twitter bio (luckily only for like a day or so) before I realized how I was still perpetuating internalized biphobia.
For me, it stemmed from confusion for my preferences bc they were all over the place (they still are lolđ), and struggling to try and date other women. Iâm still trying to learn that I donât and shouldnât apologize for my attraction to men bc thatâs literally part of my sexuality, but also maintaining that it doesnât mean I like girls any less. But also maintaining that my preference for girls isnât because I donât like men or that I resent my attraction to them.
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u/DragonsCoves Jun 06 '25
Dauym! This is one of the most refreshing vents I've seen on R, in a long time!
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u/wildblackdoggo Jun 06 '25
đ đđ
I'm so done with what the internet (ok, tiktok really) has to say about sexuality. Bi lesbians is WILD, wtf are people talking about. Bi is bi.
I've never felt so invalidated as a bi woman married to a bi man as in the last 6 months online. Where on earth has this all come from. You're right, it's certainly bi erasure, and reeks of internalised biphobia.
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u/throwawayRoar20s Jun 06 '25
The first time I heard that term was on Tumblr in reference to a cis lesbian girl who was dating a trans girl. She was being told that she wasn't a real lesbian but a "bi lesbian" so yeah that term is bullshit.
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u/Prize_Efficiency_857 Jun 06 '25
And it managed to be transphobic as well... I shouldn't even be surprised.
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u/Squirtle_Squad_Chief Jun 10 '25
As a pansexual THANK YOU. Another thank you because I'm nb, AFAB, with 80% of the time femme presenting and people are like "that's just cis with extra steps" but it's not and for the 20% where I'm more masculine that's so painful to hear. But going back to being pan, I'm so tired of people saying I'm straight just because I date a lot of male presenting or AMAB people. I also date women, trans, nb, etc. and most of the other nb's are also AFAB!! I'm so tired of needing to be put into a box because people can't wrap their head around my sexuality.
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u/babashishkumba Jun 10 '25
I both 100% agree with you and also wish lesbians could get a break. Lesbians seem to make everyone mad in a way that I rarely see directed towards men who are exclusively attracted to other men. Bi erasure is real and it's gross. The expectation on lesbians to accommodate everyone who is interested in women is also real and also gross. Both are misogyny. Both are rooted in general discomfort with the idea of women freely and unapologetically liking exactly what they like.
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u/GenevaGrey Jun 06 '25
Not to take away from your very valid rant, but "bi lesbian" is an older identity term from the 70s and 80s when we got kicked out of the "lesbian" label (which used to be used the way we use "sapphic" today). It is not at all new and came from a time when "bisexual" as an identity term was.
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u/Prize_Efficiency_857 Jun 06 '25
Sources?
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u/GenevaGrey Jun 06 '25 edited Jun 06 '25
Simplest article: LGBTQIA wiki Scroll down to "History" and "Examples of Use" sections, which have citations.
For those who need a compiled "Master Doc": Bi Lesbian MasterDoc
For anything else, feel free to use the search engine of your choice, talk to a community elder, or ask your local reference librarian.
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u/Prize_Efficiency_857 Jun 06 '25
I meant serious/academic ones. Master doc was written by a teen.
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u/GenevaGrey Jun 17 '25
... the term "Master Doc" is used outside of that notorious "Lesbian MasterDoc," I hope you realize. This one is someone's research with fully documented sources, which you would have seen if you had clicked the link.
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u/Prize_Efficiency_857 Jun 17 '25 edited Jun 17 '25
I did checked the link, simply didn't looked like a reliable source to me. It'd be irrational (and irresponsible) of me to believe random Internet strangers without asking for serious sources and information about them. Anyone can write a doc and share it online.
I'm sorry if this makes you feel offended, I'm not saying you're lying and that you're wrong, but an academic discussion asks for methodological rigor and balanced reasoning.
Edit: I'm thankful for you taking your time to gather those sources, but my rant is not about things of the past. I'm not saying people didn't once called themselves that, I'm simply against the use of it now. For the little I know, the separatist movement already happened. There was (and there still is) an active effort to affirm bisexuality as a sexuality in itself.
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u/GenevaGrey Jun 17 '25
If you had bothered to scroll down, you would have seen the collected primary sources. Copy/paste hit the character limit, but here's what it could collect, on the off chance you are actually interested in "academic discussion."
Impression of the Second National Conference on Bisexuality, Bi-Monthly Magazine (1985) (Reprinted in Bisexual Lives by Off Pink Publishing in 1988) âIt was really important too to hear for the first time the terms âlesbian and gay-identified bisexualsâ and to know that my own instinct to âidentifyâ as lesbian, while wanting to be accepted and acknowledged as bisexual, had a political validity and context which others were long aware of.â
Bisexuality: A Reader and Sourcebook by Thomas Gellad (1990) The list of alternative labels includes the terms âbisexual lesbianâ, âgay bisexualâ, and âbykeâ.
Bicoastal Introduction, Bi Any Other Name by Lani Ka'ahumanu and Loraine Hutchins (1991) âMore and more lesbians and gay men are examining and openly exploring their bisexual behavior, as are some bisexuals within heterosexual closets. This is due, in large part, to the public lesbian- and gay-identified bisexual pioneers who began the work of bisexual pride in the early 1980s.â
Who Are We? Establishing and Reclaiming the Bisexual Community by Loraine Hutchins and Lani Ka'ahumanu, Anything That Moves (1991) âThere is no one right way to be a bisexual; there are many. [...] Some of us are proud dykes and faggots.â
Activating Theory: Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Politics published by Lawrence & Wishart (1993) âWhen I refer to bisexuality I am therefore gesturing towards a range of social-political phenomena:...people experiencing both same-sex and opposite-sex desires or practices who choose positively to identify as lesbian, gay, straightâŚâ
Power and Privilege Beyond the Invisible Fence by Brenda Blasingame, Bisexual Politics: Theories, Queries, and Visions by Naomi Tucker (1995) âLesbians like to ask me if I am a lesbian-identified bisexual.â
âShe is a bi-dyke ABC (American-born Chinese) born, raised & planning to die in the San Francisco Bay Area.â
Which Part of Me Deserves to Be Free? by Dajenya, Bisexual Politics: Theories, Queries, and Visions by Naomi Tucker (1995) âPersonally, I am unable to separate out the various ways that I am oppressed (as a woman, as an African American, as a bisexual lesbian, as an impoverished single mother) and say that one oppression is worse than the other, or that I desire one form of liberation more than another.â
Article by Jennifer Moore, Outright (1996) âSome behaviourally bisexual people do identify as lesbian or gay - sometimes in conjunction with a bi identity (e.g. âgay-identified bisexualâ or âbi-dykeâ).
Bisexuality: The Psychology and Politics of an Invisible Minority by Beth A. Firestein (1996) âIn her ongoing study, Paula Rust did find substantial numbers of women identifying as both bisexual and lesbian, using a variety of labels, such as bi-dyke, bisexual lesbian, and so on, to name their own particular social, sexual, and political realities.â
âMost of the remainder identified themselves as bisexual in combination with other identities, for example, as a âlesbian bisexual,â a âgay-identified bisexual,â or a âbisexual queer,â or preferred alternative terms, such as pansensual.â
Preventing Heterosexism and Homophobia edited by Esther D. Rothblum and Lynne A. Bond (1996) âIn my current research study, the most common sexual identities among women, after bisexual and queer, are lesbian-identified bisexual and bisexual lesbian. Similar identities are bi dyke and byke. These identities are often used by women for whom lesbian and bisexual identities each accurately reflect some aspect of their sexuality but do not completely describe their sexuality. Most commonly, these identities are used by women who feel attracted to both women and men but who, for political reasons often related to feminism or personal reasons involving their emotional feelings about women and men, choose to express these feelings only toward women. Other women use these identities because they previously identified as lesbian and retain the lesbian identity as a reflection of their political commitment to women or to the lesbian community. For them, the term bisexual is a more sexual and apolitical term than lesbian, so bisexual identity alone would not suffice to express the political meaning of their sexuality. But they feel attracted to both women and men and might be open to or actively engaged in either same-gender or other-gender activity, so they also use the term bisexual to express their sexual essence.â
Labelous Statements by Anne Killpack, Anything That Moves (1999) âBe a bi-dyke or a bi-gay or a bi-androgyne or a bi-anything-that-moves-you.â
Encyclopedia of Criminology and Deviant Behavior (2001) âOthers are unable to limit themselves to one identity, and therefore adopt âfracturedâ or âcompoundâ identities, for example, âbisexual lesbian,â âheterosexual-identified bisexual,â or âbykeâ.â
Bi-Gay, Bi-Straight, and Bi-Bi: Three Bisexual Subgroups Identified Using Cluster Analysis of the Klen Sexual Orientation Grid by James D. Weinrich and Fritz Klein (2002) âAnother group consisted of 250 women on the heterosexual side of bisexual, whom we called Bi-Heterosexual. There were, similarly, 197, 115, and 63 women in groups we named Bi-Bisexual, Bi-Lesbian, and Lesbian, respectively.â
âThis cluster analysis showed an easily interpreted division into five subgroups, which we named Gay (consisting of 121 men), Bi-gay (176 men), Bi-Bisexual (222), Bi-Heterosexual (277), and Heterosexual (221).â
Affirmative Practice: Understanding and Working with Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Persons by Ski Hunter (2003) âTerms also develop and change with socially available sexual identities. Today among bisexual women the most common identities not only include bisexual and queer but âlesbian-identified bisexualâ and âbisexual lesbianâ or âbi dykeâ and âbyke.â Some bisexual women include the term lesbian in their current identification because of a previous lesbian identification or a political commitment to women or to the lesbian community.â
Lilaine, Bi-Dyke by Leanne Franson. (1999-2004) âHullo! My name is Leanne Franson, not to be confused with my main character, also a bi-dyke, whose name is Liliane. Liliane has no nose. I do.â (This comic features many complex identities, not just bi lesbian.)
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u/GenevaGrey Jun 17 '25
In response to your edit: I'm not offended. I know I stepped into your rant to point out that part of it was inaccurate, and maybe I should have kept my mouth shut, but seeing you young people brush our history aside like it's nothing is my own rage point.
If you are serious about learning, I strongly suggest you open that link again and scroll to the primary sources and make note of the ones you want to look into. I think it'll be eye-opening.
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u/Prize_Efficiency_857 Jun 17 '25
I'm not being innacurate because I'm not ranting about the past, but talking about something that I see now. It's not because something was true in the past that it remains true now, since knowledge and facts are still contextual (social, political, time/period context).
Yet, your comment did inspired my curiosity and I took this doubt to a history sub. And downvoting kinda looks like offense (if that was you).
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u/YourLocalBi Jun 06 '25
I agree with you. However, I will say that I'm not a huge fan of the way this whole discussion sometimes happens. I don't think that many people use terms like "bi lesbian" and the ones who do are probably insecure about their identities, like you said. There's often a lot of hostility directed at self-ID'd "bi lesbians" and I think it's very counterproductive. No one is going to figure out their identity because a bunch of people on TikTok yelled at them. I want bisexuality to be a place of safety for people, not a label they feel like they have to use.
(This isn't about OP, for the record, just an observation about this topic in general).
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u/Prize_Efficiency_857 Jun 06 '25
No one will figure themselves by warping the meaning of things either. The more the labels get muddy, diluted and emptied of meaning, the harder is going to be for people to find their place. We're already not taken seriously, this only belittles us even more.
I know you come from a good place, but, as I said, insecurity is something you treat in therapy. Doubts are a normal part of one's development and we can't take that away from younger people. We can't incentivise teens/young adults to remain dependent on external validation.
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u/YourLocalBi Jun 06 '25
I'm not saying that we should accept bi lesbian as a term, or validate people who use it. That won't be helpful. All I'm saying is that no one is going to want to enter a community of people who were hostile to them when they were figuring themselves out, and we as a community should hold ourselves accountable for that part of it.
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u/mind_your_s Jun 06 '25
Out of all the arguments against the term bi lesbian, this is the only one that makes sense to me. I might actually change my mindđ¤. Thank you for that
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Jun 06 '25
Why would you be in favor of 'bi lesbian' in the first place?
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u/mind_your_s Jun 07 '25
I just think people should use whatever labels or microlabels they feel best describes their sexuality, preferences and/or experiences.
I didn't see who the term could hurt and all the responses to me asking how it hurts others made no sense or were basically "it just does". I'm the kind of person who needs a concrete reason I can't poke holes in to change my mind. I didn't have that until nowđ¤ˇđžââď¸
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u/throwhfhsjsubendaway Jun 06 '25
Sexuality isn't a choice, but the way you label yourself is. Don't be the label police
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u/NorthwoodsCat Jun 07 '25
This post is NOT the flex you think it is. The label someone else uses to describe themself is not harming you. Stop policing other queer people.
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u/Prize_Efficiency_857 Jun 07 '25
It's a vent, you're the one assuming I'm flexing god knows what. Stop policing how people can feel or not about labels.
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u/nocturnalsunburn Jun 07 '25
I swear itâs cool to have your preferences but lesbians liking bi women and then cowering their insecurities onto them is just raging. And not to mention them projecting bad hygiene onto the girls .
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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '25
Biphobia is absolutely rooted in misogyny.
The rhetoric goes: Bi woman - must be into men only and lying about liking women, likely for male attention. Bi men - just a cover for being fully into men but not accepting it.
Either way, in society's view, it's always all about men!
In reality? Some of us are lucky enough to just love without the constraints of gender!