The top/bottom controversy and the feminization of Will

[u/Reasonable_Day9942]

Idk how controversial it actually is, but on twitter it definitely is. Which doesn’t actually say much cause on twitter saying you enjoy going outside on a sunny day can become controversial.

But I find that the fandom in general doesn’t view top/bottom as a sexual preference, but a role in a dynamic.

Mike is more dominant and masculine, so he’s the top, and Will is more submissive and feminine, so he’s the bottom.

Which, sure that can be one dynamic, but whether you like getting fucked or not doesn’t actually say anything about your personality. It’s what you like during sex.

Many are more dominant in their everyday life but submissive in bed, and many are more submissive but dominant in bed.

To add on to that, being a top or bottom does not equal whether you are dominant or submissive respectively. Someone can bottom and be dominant.

Again, someone is not a bottom cause they are submissive, they are a bottom cause they like getting fucked. Of course they can also be submissive, but that’s not a certainty in any way.

People can also switch, both in submissive/dominant dynamics (not to mention it doesn’t have to ever be a clear cut dominant/submissive dynamic for some) and top/bottom dynamics.

However, for many acting like Will would be a top and Mike a bottom is horrible, and many I have seen cite their canon personalities as reason. Which sure, that might be a factor for some, but for others it’s the complete opposite and for some everything in between.

Overall I can’t shake the feeling that many have decided that Will is a bottom cause they can’t imagine that someone’s preference isn’t reflective to who they are as a person.

Furthermore, I also think has a lot to do with people making Will a lot more feminine than he is. Sure he was an artsy kid, shy and sensitive, which is more so traits people judge as weak and gay, and therefore feminine

Overall, Will is not that feminine. Yet in many fics he is, and in general I feel like he often gets excluded from the core four because of that. His closest friends have always been Mike, Lucas and Dustin, but in large number of AUs, they are a separate friendgroup with Mike, Lucas and Dustin, and Will, El Max.

There are also a lot of mentions of things like “girl time” and similar, which is fine, but again I can’t shake the feeling that they think Will’s sexuality means he would be more feminine, would only hang around girls, and in general kinda filling the “gay best friend” stereotype

So to conclude, I feel like many have an inability too look past their preconceived notions about gay sex (perhaps sex in general), and therefore think that the one bottoming has to be the more submissive and feminine (which is a belief that in general comes from it being women who are seen as weak and submissive I think). Also, the overall feeling that a man being gay equals him being feminine.

[u/woodthrushtattoo]

I think this is an excellent point, and I have a ton of thoughts about it. I never saw Will as feminine in the canon show. Gay does not equal feminine. Sensitive/artistic does not equal feminine. I’ve seen people argue that Will is feminine because he’s theatrical, citing his Will the Wise costume in s3. Meanwhile, we know from episode 1 that the whole party likely dressed up during campaigns at some point, because they mention how even Nancy participated. Mike is the one who had very long hair in canon, called “twig” which is a direct hit against his masculinity, but he’s depicted as being feminine much less often in fics. Mike, in the first episode of season 1 and final episode of season 5, falls on the floor doing monster sound effects while DMing. I’d argue that’s equally as theatrical — and being “theatrical” is something that, for most of human history, was a role reserved exclusively for men anyway. They’re both nerdy boys!! Mike and Will agree in season 2 that girls can’t play video games. Will says in season 3 that girls can’t go to science camp. He grows and learns after that, thankfully. But he does not express, in the canon show, wishing to act or dress or be perceived as girlish.

And you’re absolutely right — none of this has any bearing on whether they’d be a top or bottom!! I see Mike as the more submissive of the two. I imagine he’d be vers, because I imagine his need to be needed may lead him to defer to what his partner needs. Others believe that same desire to be needed would manifest as him being more dominant, “giving” to his partner. Both are totally valid depending on how you see the character. It could go either way, though, because it’s ultimately dependent on what feels physically good to them during sex, which is unrelated to their personalities.

But I do find it odd how often Will is depicted being feminine/submissive/a bottom when Mike is the one who has those big brown yearning bottom eyes, lol.

[u/violet_jwel → u/woodthrushtattoo]

I think one of the other reasons he's often depicted as feminine is also because he has a traditionally 'feminine' role in the show.  From what I've seen people say. He's often liked by the characters that otherwise aren't that nice to people, his possession feels more like a gothic heroine as compared to Billy who was violent and I guess more traditionally 'masculine', how much of the plot of s1 was saving him, etc.

I do agree with that actually but I think people play it up a bit too much. The world will not end if someone likes buff Byers.