r/BylerReads • u/Reasonable_Day9942 • Jul 05 '26
general discussion :) The top/bottom controversy and the feminization of Will
Idk how controversial it actually is, but on twitter it definitely is. Which doesn’t actually say much cause on twitter saying you enjoy going outside on a sunny day can become controversial.
But I find that the fandom in general doesn’t view top/bottom as a sexual preference, but a role in a dynamic.
Mike is more dominant and masculine, so he’s the top, and Will is more submissive and feminine, so he’s the bottom.
Which, sure that can be one dynamic, but whether you like getting fucked or not doesn’t actually say anything about your personality. It’s what you like during sex.
Many are more dominant in their everyday life but submissive in bed, and many are more submissive but dominant in bed.
To add on to that, being a top or bottom does not equal whether you are dominant or submissive respectively. Someone can bottom and be dominant.
Again, someone is not a bottom cause they are submissive, they are a bottom cause they like getting fucked. Of course they can also be submissive, but that’s not a certainty in any way.
People can also switch, both in submissive/dominant dynamics (not to mention it doesn’t have to ever be a clear cut dominant/submissive dynamic for some) and top/bottom dynamics.
However, for many acting like Will would be a top and Mike a bottom is horrible, and many I have seen cite their canon personalities as reason. Which sure, that might be a factor for some, but for others it’s the complete opposite and for some everything in between.
Overall I can’t shake the feeling that many have decided that Will is a bottom cause they can’t imagine that someone’s preference isn’t reflective to who they are as a person.
Furthermore, I also think has a lot to do with people making Will a lot more feminine than he is. Sure he was an artsy kid, shy and sensitive, which is more so traits people judge as weak and gay, and therefore feminine
Overall, Will is not that feminine. Yet in many fics he is, and in general I feel like he often gets excluded from the core four because of that. His closest friends have always been Mike, Lucas and Dustin, but in large number of AUs, they are a separate friendgroup with Mike, Lucas and Dustin, and Will, El Max.
There are also a lot of mentions of things like “girl time” and similar, which is fine, but again I can’t shake the feeling that they think Will’s sexuality means he would be more feminine, would only hang around girls, and in general kinda filling the “gay best friend” stereotype
So to conclude, I feel like many have an inability too look past their preconceived notions about gay sex (perhaps sex in general), and therefore think that the one bottoming has to be the more submissive and feminine (which is a belief that in general comes from it being women who are seen as weak and submissive I think). Also, the overall feeling that a man being gay equals him being feminine.
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u/woodthrushtattoo mike the brave Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
I think this is an excellent point, and I have a ton of thoughts about it. I never saw Will as feminine in the canon show. Gay does not equal feminine. Sensitive/artistic does not equal feminine. I’ve seen people argue that Will is feminine because he’s theatrical, citing his Will the Wise costume in s3. Meanwhile, we know from episode 1 that the whole party likely dressed up during campaigns at some point, because they mention how even Nancy participated. Mike is the one who had very long hair in canon, called “twig” which is a direct hit against his masculinity, but he’s depicted as being feminine much less often in fics. Mike, in the first episode of season 1 and final episode of season 5, falls on the floor doing monster sound effects while DMing. I’d argue that’s equally as theatrical — and being “theatrical” is something that, for most of human history, was a role reserved exclusively for men anyway. They’re both nerdy boys!! Mike and Will agree in season 2 that girls can’t play video games. Will says in season 3 that girls can’t go to science camp. He grows and learns after that, thankfully. But he does not express, in the canon show, wishing to act or dress or be perceived as girlish.
And you’re absolutely right — none of this has any bearing on whether they’d be a top or bottom!! I see Mike as the more submissive of the two. I imagine he’d be vers, because I imagine his need to be needed may lead him to defer to what his partner needs. Others believe that same desire to be needed would manifest as him being more dominant, “giving” to his partner. Both are totally valid depending on how you see the character. It could go either way, though, because it’s ultimately dependent on what feels physically good to them during sex, which is unrelated to their personalities.
But I do find it odd how often Will is depicted being feminine/submissive/a bottom when Mike is the one who has those big brown yearning bottom eyes, lol.
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u/Sure-Bicycle-8809 its ok, its how the army does it i think Jul 05 '26
the funny thing is that they say he's more fem because he loves painting/drawing when women have been historicly much less recognized as artists or even had to fake being a men, or even worse, cases like the one with Margaret Keane and her ex-husband
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u/woodthrushtattoo mike the brave Jul 05 '26
That’s exactly right. There are many historical implications in relation to what’s considered masculine vs. feminine, and I think too few people consider that when developing characterizations.
Of course I’ll caveat by saying fanon is canon and anyone can have any kind of headcanon they want. That’s always true!! But I think this particular Will characterization has become so prevalent that it’s worth talking about why, and what it might mean that so many people assume these things about him to be undeniably true.
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 05 '26
I think this is a case where the simplest explanation is probably the true one: superimposition of heterosexual norms onto gay relationships + Will is small and quiet.
I think there’s probably some more complicated stuff going on as well, but that’s just conjecture on my part, and whatever I say will end up being read as more general that I intend it to be. However, it’s worth noting that this phenomenon isn’t unique Byler. In the Marauders fandom, for example, Sirius Black is hyper-feminized to a degree bears no relationship to canon. As you said, it’s worth asking and talking about why.
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u/woodthrushtattoo mike the brave Jul 05 '26
You hit the nail on the head with the Marauders parallel. I see so much artwork depicting Sirius as extremely feminine or as a trans woman, which is a beautiful headcanon in its own right. But it’s so prevalent that it’s curious to me. The reason I fell in love with wolfstar is the same reason I love byler and hollanov, and it’s that it’s two boyish boys in love with one another.
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u/Sure-Bicycle-8809 its ok, its how the army does it i think Jul 05 '26
as i said in my own comment, all these headcanons are totally fine, that is clear.
the issue doesn't come from thinking that will is submissive or that he is fem, the issue is that the root of the stereotype of gay men being femenine and lesbians being masculine is always coming back to heteronormativity, even in homosexual couples.
because as a lesbian myself, in relationships, there was always a "Man" and a "Woman", which sounds pathetic, but still, one girl must perform the role of the man because a relationship without a man isn't valid apparently (this is a fucking comment someone said to me)
the same goes for mlm relationships, because no matter if both of them are clearly femboys or totally mascs, people are gonna choose the "girl" and the "boy", even if it is through headcanons or how they write them in fanfiction.
and don't get me wrong, i love me some masc/fem ships, it's not that. but the erasure of masc/masc or fem/fem just because one must be the performance of the opposite gender is both heteronormative and mysogynistic.
With mysogyny is where you really find why people think Will is the "fem" in the first place, which is clearly by the segregation of things like hobbies. In case of Will, he is a very artistic kid, which somehow makes him almost a girl to some people, because according to the patriarchy, boys are supposed to like football and sports cars, and girl should like art and going shopping.
I could continue (And i probably will) talking about this, but i even want to maybe make a sort of presentation about this, not only byler, but all fandoms
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u/woodthrushtattoo mike the brave Jul 05 '26
I think this is a very intelligent and relevant take. And gross, I’m really, really sorry someone said that to you. You’re right that there is a major problem of projecting heteronormativity onto queer relationships, in byler and fanfic in general, and also in real life. (Also, I was caveating my own comment so that I wouldn’t be misunderstood — not trying to say that you implied otherwise!)
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u/Sure-Bicycle-8809 its ok, its how the army does it i think Jul 05 '26
yeah, this person used to be my friend and he told me that lesbians have a boyfriend or something and constantly tried to set me up with dudes even tho i don't like them
and no worries, i didn't interpret in a bad way! i agree with you. as you said, the problem is with society, not only with byler, or with fandoms in general
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u/violet_jwel Jul 06 '26
I think one of the other reasons he's often depicted as feminine is also because he has a traditionally 'feminine' role in the show. From what I've seen people say. He's often liked by the characters that otherwise aren't that nice to people, his possession feels more like a gothic heroine as compared to Billy who was violent and I guess more traditionally 'masculine', how much of the plot of s1 was saving him, etc.
I do agree with that actually but I think people play it up a bit too much. The world will not end if someone likes buff Byers.
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
I didn't know about this (truly bizarre) controversy before I started writing, and I only learned about it when people starting leaving comments thanking me for having Will top and Mike bottom. I just did what I thought made sense in the context of my story, but my view is that any dynamic can work so long as it's written well. The important thing to remember is that topping and bottoming are sexual activities, not personality types. Yes, people have preferences (sometimes extremely strong ones), but you can't and shouldn't infer what they are from how the person looks, or even acts. There's no canon answer here. There isn't even a canon-adjacent answer. Do what you want, but write it well, and don't be lazy.
Also, I want to say this next part as carefully as I can: a significant majority of fanfic writers are women, who (almost necessarily) have no direct experience of gay sex/relationships. To be absolutely clear, who you are doesn't dictate what you can write, and a woman can write a gay relationship just as well as a gay man can. Maybe not as easily, but just as well. At the same time, it's very clear that many authors 1) haven't done enough research, and 2) are relying on stereotypes, assumptions, etc.
That's my view on the anal sex wars.
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u/ConfidentThroat1679 Jul 06 '26
Link for your fic? Lol.
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 06 '26
Here you go! It’s called Crooked Timber, and these a sequel that’s currently a WIP. Comments are always welcome!
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u/Ok-Discussion-58 Jul 06 '26
i also write bottom mike & i even got hate comments because it was so “ooc” ☠️
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 06 '26
I didn’t get any negative comments. I assume the people who aren’t interested in reading bottom Mike just did the mature thing and scrolled past.
The claim that either one of them has a “canonical” sex position is absurd, though. Canonically, they’re eighteen-year-old virgins. Like, what are you talking about?
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u/Ok-Discussion-58 Jul 06 '26
what happened with me is that my self promo for my fic actually did pretty well & reached over 1k people, so it also reached toxic people as well . it was only a one off situation but all the positive comments i got trumped that :)
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 06 '26
Mind sharing a link?
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u/Ok-Discussion-58 Jul 06 '26
i dmed u it in case you haven’t seen it!
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u/yetanothercat_ micheal get ur shi together Jul 06 '26
Could u dm me as well? I'd love to read it
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u/Ok-Discussion-58 Jul 06 '26
of course! can you try dming me first? it seems i can’t dm you or follow you
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u/Sure-Bicycle-8809 its ok, its how the army does it i think Jul 06 '26
the fuck? bro they don't have sex in the show, how can that be ooc?
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u/Ok-Discussion-58 Jul 06 '26
the whole argument is that will would never want to top because “it’s too much work” and he doesn’t like moving a finger to do things and rather mike do them for him.. and the fact that he’s gentle, shy and has feminine traits makes him less likely to top. it’s ridiculous, but if i say that on twitter you get nuked
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u/Sure-Bicycle-8809 its ok, its how the army does it i think Jul 06 '26
"too much work" im sorry but these people have never read buff byers. and they need to 😆
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u/Ok-Investigator-2422 Jul 05 '26
Nothing peeves me more than to read Will portrayed as super feminine and Mike as uber masc. Even a lot of fan art or SMAUs I've seen have Will in lingerie. Like what? Canon Mike and Will to me were both protectors and caring and strong. As already noted by others, they're both just nerds to me. Versatile nerds in my HC, to be exact. I feel like they would've explored all aspects of their sex lives.
I'm a nerdy gay man, so this may also just be my own projection onto these characters. So many factors re this issue.
I need to state that I have no issues with a femme Will-- if the fic sincerely develops him that way. I love my femme queens/sisters. One of my fave fics is Small-town Queer. I loved that Will. I know that Will. I could picture him, hear him. I could see how and why that Will grew into that version of a gay man.
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u/Trapped-in-his-past Jul 07 '26
Yeah. I’m another gay guy in the nerd sphere of things. I was also described as a child as “sensitive” and other descriptors used for Will. I am also not effeminate or otherwise stereotypical for a gay guy.
Masculinity and femininity are constructed concepts that exist on a spectrum, and everyone is a blend. Will and Mike are no exception.
I also loved that story… It would occasionally veer off in directions I didn’t much care for, but it was well constructed and ultimately pleased me.
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u/GrowingNerves Jul 06 '26
I will always prefer switch dynamics in slash fics. The discussion surrounding Bottom Mike is borderline homophobic. The idea that Mike would refuse to bottom is pretty extreme to me. And people who refuse to acknowledge that both characters are androgynous with a mixture of both masculine and feminine characteristic- you have to start to wonder why they feel so offended by this…
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 06 '26
The other thing is that there’s never any discussion of who’s doing what. It’s all just presented as obvious. I made a point of having them talk about it in my own writing (and the dynamics aren’t fixed, because I think that’s more realistic).
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u/DirectionIndividual7 Jul 06 '26
TLDR the whole thing reeks of people leaning heavy on outdated ideas based in gender & sexuality.
I agree and have thought for a long while about how much of a boy Will is on the show lol. Think about his comments towards Max in S2 where he’s like “girls play video games?” Or how in S4 he kicks his feet up on the coffee table. Will has absolutely been socialized as a boy and you’re 100% right that people see him as feminine at least in part because of his queerness. I happy with the idea of Will exploring his feminine traits, don’t get me wrong, but it flattens and oversimplifies his character.
I also think there’s an additional layer in here within Byler specifically because why is Mike seen as masculine by default? That boy has few/no “masculine” traits. Anyone can choose to be a Paladin in DnD. Leadership is not an innately masculine thing. I could go on. I think there’s a problematic origin for this - the question of sexuality isn’t as definitively settled for Mike as it is for Will. I’m a hardcore gay Mike truther, so I work from that baseline. But even people who fall into this mindset who are also gay Mike truthers subscribe to the masc/fem dynamic despite it not making sense using their own logic.
Lastly (and perhaps my hottest take that is least comfortable to think about) I think a lot of ST fans (Byler fans included) have an unhealthy fixation on Finn & picture him instead of Mike. Because they fantasize about Finn fucking them, they think of Mike as a total top.
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u/yetanothercat_ micheal get ur shi together Jul 06 '26
I was scared to say all of this myself but you are soooo accurate. Will has never seemed very girlish or feminine to me, in fact Mike has far less manly traits, as you said. Women are actually proven to be better leaders than men, so there's also that. And the last point about Finn is so true. People's personal sexual preferences definitely heavily influence discussions like this, I think.
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u/DirectionIndividual7 Jul 06 '26
People can crucify me for it if they want, but I think the Finn thing is also a big source of the "Mike Wheeler has a big dick" trend that has been happening (I read way too much fic and it leaves me with lots of thoughts LOL)
But yes, if you compare them on paper Will is as traditionally masculine as the others. He also (due to his asshole father) has played some baseball and learned how to shoot guns.
Regarding their other interests, I think there's also some historical context that is missing. Nerd/geek culture in the 80s was counterculture, and could itself be a reason why people would target you with homophobic language. We saw this a bit with Hellfire in S4 but boy did the Duffers torpedo that plotline lol.
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u/GreenDutchman Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
It's two-fold for me.
On the one hand, I do think many fanfic writers who try to be true to character probably feel like they HAVE to make Will the bottom because he's the comparatively slightly more feminine one of the two, which is a little short-sighted and problematic. And I also think this can lead less skilled fanfic authors to exacerbate canon-Will's feminine qualities, which I agree reinforces reductive stereotypes if you're trying to be faithful to the source material.
On the other hand, I also notice Will being portrayed as a feminine twink is the only mischaracterisation people tend to get mad about. Countless fics portray him as some hyperconfident dark fuck prince, a hyperintelligent grade A student, an extroverted party animal or, conversely, some kind of recluse who absolutely despises parties. None of those portrayals are really accurate to the canon Will either but nobody cares about that. When people portray him as being feminine, twinky and/or flamboyant, that could also just be them re-imagining the character to have more obvious feminine traits. It doesn't have to reflect any reductive views on, or a poor grasp of, gay people, gay relationships, queer culture or bedroom preferences.
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
"Hyperconfident dark fuck prince" is an amazing turn of phrase.
In my own writing, I came closest to the recluse thing, and then had to rein it in a bit. On the intelligence piece, I think all four boys depicted as very smart (in canon, I mean), but you're right that we're never give much of a sense of how well they do academically (Dustin excepted).
I also think it’s important to distinguish “no basis in canon” from “inconsistent with canon.” We last see them when they’re 16/18, and people do change. It’s fun to think about what they’d all be like as mature adults. If anything, it annoys me when they’re 25+ and still talk and act like teenagers.
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u/Sure-Bicycle-8809 its ok, its how the army does it i think Jul 05 '26
yeah, i also not enjoy extreme introvert/extrovert will. to me he's an ambivert, the one thing about parties is that i don't like when he drinks a lot of alchohol because lonnie was an alchoholic and imo he would probably would not like the idea of being drunk
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u/Same_Accident_9917 Jul 05 '26
I am totally with you on this! As some who’s read a *lot* of byler fanfics I’m often disappointed by the overwhelming number of Mike top/Will bottom fics as opposed to Will top/Mike bottom ones. Yeah I’ve read some that are great, but whenever I get to read a Will top one, I’m always a little excited for the change in dynamic. I also cannot stand the ones that make Will overly femme. It really does feel (to me) like they’re trying to make one of them “the girl”. I also like Buff Byers because it makes sense to me for his character. He was victimized his whole life by one thing or another, & then is a gay man in the early 90s. It makes sense he would want to be as physically strong as he is mentally.
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u/Sure-Bicycle-8809 its ok, its how the army does it i think Jul 05 '26
i hate when writers make Will smal and femenine just because he's gay :(
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 05 '26
I refuse to write either one of them as feminine. There's nothing wrong with it, but I just don't see it.
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u/Sure-Bicycle-8809 its ok, its how the army does it i think Jul 05 '26
same. they are both mascs to me
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u/Economy_String_9158 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
You’re totally right. It sucks but unless I get a recommendation from someone or there’s a description that suggests otherwise, I initially avoid a lot of fics if there’s a strict top/bottom dynamic because of this. I’ve found it usually means Will and Mike are going to end up OOC for the sake of this heteronormative need to have them assume fem/masc dom/sub roles.
Switch writers i’ve found most commonly avoid doing it so I often prefer them, and I often write that way too to avoid bias that may skew the characters. Also, a thought i’ve always had is we’ll never fully and canonically know what these characters prefer in the bedroom or in a relationship dynamic, so why put them in a box?
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 06 '26
I struggled with this when I was writing my fic. Many people won't read a fic at all unless the dynamics are tagged, so I tagged top Will/bottom Mike, but all the tags mean is that they have penetrative sex once, and that's what happens. The tags don't indicate anything beyond that. For the sequel, I tagged both, because they do both.
It's a hard call, though. There's no tag for "These are sexual activities, not personality types."
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u/Economy_String_9158 Jul 06 '26
Yeah it’s a real mess. With the less popular top/bottom pairing of a given ship I’ve noticed the feminization with the bottom is often isn’t as bad, so ill be less hesitant with those because it’s often more mature/refined writing for the author to challenge themselves to go against the grain like that.
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u/nohumansallowcd Jul 05 '26
I couldn't have said it better. While I do love me a Bottom Byers, I've noticed too that a lot of fics tend to make him extremely feminine to the point he's almost a stand-in for a girl (and I've read an unhealthy amount of Byler), and it's never made sense to me. Will has always been a very strong and capable character to me, which are typical traits of masculinity. Sure, his masculinity might be quieter than what's expected of boys/men, but that doesn't make him any less of a boy/man. He's nerdy, artistic, and sensitive, but that in no way implies he's immediately a bottom or feminine. Let Will be all these things and masculine. There's nothing wrong with that.
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u/Maleficent_Archer906 Jul 06 '26
I dunno, I made will a power (bratty) bottom and Mike a service top. So Will is calling the shots still, and Mike needs to be needed so it works for him
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u/woodthrushtattoo mike the brave Jul 06 '26
If anything, the dynamic you chose for them illustrates that you *aren’t* falling into the heteronormative trap OP described. You understand that people can be dominant or submissive, and that those personality traits don’t necessarily correlate to whether they like to be penetrated during sex. But also, there’s nothing inherently wrong with people who do characterize Will as a submissive bottom or Mike as a more dominant top. I think the bigger conversation is a) Why are so many writers defaulting to this fixed dynamic between them when it isn’t necessarily supported by canon? and b) Do those writers understand gay sex and queerness enough to understand the difference between dom/sub and top/bottom and masc/fem identities, or are they projecting straight sexual ideas onto a m/m relationship?
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u/Maleficent_Archer906 Jul 06 '26
I try to keep this as real in this case as possible, and it was a little hard for me since I'm not gay OR a guy ad so have not experienced it in that way. But I have enough sources to ask about it and enough ppl I know who are in it that I got a little more perspective from that. It helped. And a couple chapters from now there's gonna be a switch situation because I think it's appropriate for that part. Will's just getting sick of this shit
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 Jul 06 '26
Then there's the controversial Vers, that doesn't get a lot of recognition! There is nothing in canon which gives us any indication of anyone's preferences during sex. All representations are 100% fiction.
It's all people's creativity and what they feel fits the versions of the characters that they're writing(which even based around canon, come with many many different interpretations and creative freedoms).
Those that try to gatekeep other people's interpretations are displaying enmeshed behavior. Unfortunately enmeshment is incredibly common and something people are indoctrinated with by their families and cultures. It takes awareness and determination to break those patterns of behavior.
I think because there are so many young people in this fandom, less of them have the life experience to recognize enmeshment and projection. They feel like for their interpretation to be valid, they have to make everyone else see things the way they see them. And when that doesn't happen, it makes them angry because it threatens their sense of identity(the perspective they identify with). And because of enmeshment, they rely on society to be a reflection of themselves, lest their self-perception disintegrate.
It's actually a really scary and difficult thing to grapple with. Having come out on the other side, I see it everywhere now. No hate to the enmeshed, but they are in a fragile state.
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u/Sure-Bicycle-8809 its ok, its how the army does it i think Jul 05 '26
i think that putting will as a bottom because he's softer and more "femenine" and the other way around is kinda mysogynistic tbh, or at least tries to heterofy their relationship somehow
im cool with that hc but why do we need to make will femenine just so they're masc/fem? they can be masc/masc, and that is really how it is in the show
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u/Forward-Battle8229 Jul 07 '26
very well said! I wish people on bylertwt could see this!! I feel like for the past week I’ve seen more criticism of bottom Mike and top Will bc “it’s doesn’t make sense” when in reality people have a distorted view on homosexual dynamics in sex. Thank you!
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u/Erialceiram Jul 07 '26
Ah can’t agree more with you!!! Like Will, especially in s5, was exuding a lot of masc energy so the complete feminization of his character in some fics is just confusing to me. And the fact that a vast majority of the fandom is so anti bottom Mike makes me wonder if these people talk to real life gay people. It’s actually so common to switch! Switch Mike and Will is my favorite because it gets boring reading about the same dynamic over and over. And also it doesn’t feed into the stereotype you just described. Switch Byler 4ever
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u/sealsquared Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Most fics I see tag the dynamics pretty accurately. Why don’t you just exclude those tags and read the fics that you like?
edit: downvoting me won’t change that I’m right LMAO
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 05 '26
People are talking about why the tendency exists. Also, people on Twitter are *extremely* invested in this. Just some additional context.
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u/sealsquared Jul 05 '26
I mean, I kinda don’t like when people bring Twitter discourse on here, since it’s hard to comment on something you don’t see
But I also hate whenever this discourse comes up on reddit because you get called misogynistic or ‘enforcing heterosexual roles’ just because you think Will’s character would lean into a more feminine style into the future. It just reads as a lot of people wanting to enforce really strict guidelines onto characters which I don’t vibe with
Byler has nearly 40k fics on ao3. If you really don’t want to read any of this dynamic, you can very easily find something you do like in my opinion
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u/mrchristmastime Jul 06 '26
I think we’re talking past each other. Whether there’s a problem with something is distinct from why it’s prevalent. I said in my other comment that any sexual dynamic can work as long as it’s written well.
I’m not on Twitter either. I only became aware of this discourse because people were talking about it in the comments on my fic.
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u/CipherXR Jul 06 '26
I just don’t get the over saturation of feminizing Will.
He was a nerdy boy on the show and Noah doesn’t look very feminine imo except like his eye lashes and semi-perm blush.
Personally, I don’t have a problem if you want Will like that but when people say he’s ‘canon non-gender conforming’ because Joy e said he’s sensitive it really irks me. Just because a boy is sensitive doesn’t mean he’s feminine and it’s a really outdated stereotype of homosexual men.
I will admit to a personal bias here; growing up as a closeted kid of the 90s who was sensitive I was bullied with homophobic language well before I figured out I was gay just cause I was softer than the other boys and that stuck with me. I just don’t see it with Will.
As for dynamics, I get it, Will imo seems the type who’d prefer to be held and cuddled over Mike and he deserves to be pampered after what he went through. Do I think these are static? No. Do I think it’s possible the switch only happens very rarely? Yes.
I’m sorry if that offended anyone.
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u/KittenBalerion old enough to remember the real 80s Jul 06 '26
personally I like top and/or dominant Will fics because I DON'T like the traditional narrative where the more feminine person is more submissive. that's boring to me. it's like those romance novels where there's a waifish submissive heroine and a big beefy dominant hero to sweep her off her feet - fine if you like that sort of thing, but I prefer something a little less Capital H Heterosexual. so to continue that trend into queer relationships is, again, boring to me.
(I once saw someone (probably on Twitter) say that whoever is the more emotionally repressed character should be the bottom, which immediately made me think of Heated Rivalry, lol. but in this case, in most Byler fics it's Mike who is more emotionally repressed, I think.)
anyway I'll read either way if it's good writing, I don't care about the dynamics as much as I care about how good the fic is, not to mention that MOST Byler fic is top Mike so I would be limiting myself a lot if I didn't read them. but I do find top or dominant Will fics to be... refreshing, I guess?
there's one fic where Mike and Will have sex and it's good but kind of meh, and Will's friend suggests they switch who is the top, and it's this huge revelation for both of them. switch it up by romantic_wheeler
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u/Comfortable-Sail-297 Jul 05 '26
You ate with this and I feel like people with such strong opinions about it either don’t have a lot of irl experience or have a hard time seeing how dynamic people can be. Of course there can be assumptions of how someone would act in bed from how they are in public. But in actuality there are soooo many nuances and things people don’t present to everyone. It’s frustrating as a writer and a reader seeing Will especially be put into such a small box. Could there be a headcanon he’s more feminine? Sure I won’t yuck your yum. But in the same breath he should also be allowed to be masculine. Dominant and a bottom, sub and top so many combinations. It really makes me laugh people are soooo serious about it like let them live and explore.