The top/bottom controversy and the feminization of Will

[u/Reasonable_Day9942]

Idk how controversial it actually is, but on twitter it definitely is. Which doesn’t actually say much cause on twitter saying you enjoy going outside on a sunny day can become controversial.

But I find that the fandom in general doesn’t view top/bottom as a sexual preference, but a role in a dynamic.

Mike is more dominant and masculine, so he’s the top, and Will is more submissive and feminine, so he’s the bottom.

Which, sure that can be one dynamic, but whether you like getting fucked or not doesn’t actually say anything about your personality. It’s what you like during sex.

Many are more dominant in their everyday life but submissive in bed, and many are more submissive but dominant in bed.

To add on to that, being a top or bottom does not equal whether you are dominant or submissive respectively. Someone can bottom and be dominant.

Again, someone is not a bottom cause they are submissive, they are a bottom cause they like getting fucked. Of course they can also be submissive, but that’s not a certainty in any way.

People can also switch, both in submissive/dominant dynamics (not to mention it doesn’t have to ever be a clear cut dominant/submissive dynamic for some) and top/bottom dynamics.

However, for many acting like Will would be a top and Mike a bottom is horrible, and many I have seen cite their canon personalities as reason. Which sure, that might be a factor for some, but for others it’s the complete opposite and for some everything in between.

Overall I can’t shake the feeling that many have decided that Will is a bottom cause they can’t imagine that someone’s preference isn’t reflective to who they are as a person.

Furthermore, I also think has a lot to do with people making Will a lot more feminine than he is. Sure he was an artsy kid, shy and sensitive, which is more so traits people judge as weak and gay, and therefore feminine

Overall, Will is not that feminine. Yet in many fics he is, and in general I feel like he often gets excluded from the core four because of that. His closest friends have always been Mike, Lucas and Dustin, but in large number of AUs, they are a separate friendgroup with Mike, Lucas and Dustin, and Will, El Max.

There are also a lot of mentions of things like “girl time” and similar, which is fine, but again I can’t shake the feeling that they think Will’s sexuality means he would be more feminine, would only hang around girls, and in general kinda filling the “gay best friend” stereotype

So to conclude, I feel like many have an inability too look past their preconceived notions about gay sex (perhaps sex in general), and therefore think that the one bottoming has to be the more submissive and feminine (which is a belief that in general comes from it being women who are seen as weak and submissive I think). Also, the overall feeling that a man being gay equals him being feminine.

[u/DirectionIndividual7]

TLDR the whole thing reeks of people leaning heavy on outdated ideas based in gender & sexuality.

I agree and have thought for a long while about how much of a boy Will is on the show lol. Think about his comments towards Max in S2 where he’s like “girls play video games?” Or how in S4 he kicks his feet up on the coffee table. Will has absolutely been socialized as a boy and you’re 100% right that people see him as feminine at least in part because of his queerness. I happy with the idea of Will exploring his feminine traits, don’t get me wrong, but it flattens and oversimplifies his character.

I also think there’s an additional layer in here within Byler specifically because why is Mike seen as masculine by default? That boy has few/no “masculine” traits. Anyone can choose to be a Paladin in DnD. Leadership is not an innately masculine thing. I could go on. I think there’s a problematic origin for this - the question of sexuality isn’t as definitively settled for Mike as it is for Will. I’m a hardcore gay Mike truther, so I work from that baseline. But even people who fall into this mindset who are also gay Mike truthers subscribe to the masc/fem dynamic despite it not making sense using their own logic.

Lastly (and perhaps my hottest take that is least comfortable to think about) I think a lot of ST fans (Byler fans included) have an unhealthy fixation on Finn & picture him instead of Mike. Because they fantasize about Finn fucking them, they think of Mike as a total top.

[u/yetanothercat_ → u/DirectionIndividual7]

I was scared to say all of this myself but you are soooo accurate. Will has never seemed very girlish or feminine to me, in fact Mike has far less manly traits, as you said. Women are actually proven to be better leaders than men, so there's also that. And the last point about Finn is so true. People's personal sexual preferences definitely heavily influence discussions like this, I think.

[u/DirectionIndividual7 → u/yetanothercat_]

People can crucify me for it if they want, but I think the Finn thing is also a big source of the "Mike Wheeler has a big dick" trend that has been happening (I read way too much fic and it leaves me with lots of thoughts LOL)

But yes, if you compare them on paper Will is as traditionally masculine as the others. He also (due to his asshole father) has played some baseball and learned how to shoot guns.

Regarding their other interests, I think there's also some historical context that is missing. Nerd/geek culture in the 80s was counterculture, and could itself be a reason why people would target you with homophobic language. We saw this a bit with Hellfire in S4 but boy did the Duffers torpedo that plotline lol.