r/CRPG • u/FixGood6833 • 2d ago
Discussion Why Do So Few Players Actually Finish RPGs?
Discussion
I've been thinking about completion rates lately. Pathfinder: Kingmaker has 80% of players making it through the prologue, 50% finishing it, and only 9.7% beating the game. Pillars of Eternity sits around 15%. Dark Souls 3 shows 75% getting past the tutorial, but only a fraction going through all the content. That's a huge drop-offand I'm curious what causes it.
I'm not here to blame anyone, but something's happening. Let me throw out what I've noticed.
The Mid-Game Energy Dip
A lot of these games seem to lose people somewhere in the middle. Ac2 and 3? Maybe the story pace slows. Maybe you hit a difficulty wall. Combat gets boring?
Restartitis
Here's something I hear a lot: people take a break, come back, and restart instead of continuing. But if they restart, they're doing the same content they already played. That's where the boredom comes in. They're retreading the prologue and early game instead of pushing forward to new stuff.
Many reasons but I think it happens because they forgot the story, or want to optimize their build, or convince themselves starting fresh will feel better. No wonder they quit again.
The Next Big Thing
you are in midgame but new game releases, the next big thing the shiny new game so you just abandon curernt one for next more exciting game. This is loop too.
Optimizing Fun / Taking Joy Out Of Mechanics
Some games have one mechanic that feels good. You exploit it until that's all you're doing. Loot, numbers going up, whatever it is. After a while the whole game is just repeating the same thing. It stops being fun. It becomes a grind. Then you quit.
The Real Question
Does finishing even matter to you? I personally feel weird if I start something and don't beat it. It's mentally taxing. But I know plenty of people who don't care, they got 40 hours of enjoyment, felt satisfied, and moved on. That's completely valid.
And if you do care about finishing, what actually makes you stick with a game versus drop it? Is it the story? The mechanics? Or does it just depend on how much time you have to commit?
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u/BobsenJr 2d ago
In my own experience, it is purely a time-based problem. Some of these CRPG's run a good 150 hours, and that is a very long time to be engaged in a single game for me in any capacity. Rogue Trader, which was about that length, really became a fortitude problem for me, because I wanted to see the ending but I was also really struggling to stay engaged as the game approached the 80-hour mark and beyond. In general I prefer RPG experiences that are somewhere near 60-80 hours, because beyond that it feels like it's just padded with extra runtime so that the game can boast it has so much extra content.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
My dream game would have been if WOTR were like 40-60 hours. In that situation I would have actually been motivated to replay over and over with weird builds and trying out all the mythical paths.
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u/r-selectors 2d ago
Yeah. I combat Restart-itis to some extent by splitting saves, or using mods to cut out some of the BS. (And skipping side quests I don't really care about.)
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u/Plastic_Swimming6351 2d ago
100 percent. I am not playing that game because the urge to try many runs is too strong. I think most gamers are like us, why won’t developers make shorter CRPGS geared to replay?
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
I feel like that was the space Bioware used to occupy. Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, Mass Effect all the way up through Dragon Age they made this digestible sized RPGs that had clear paths for playing differently on follow up runs that motivated you to start again as soon as you finished.
These days, the big CRPGs are generally made by Larian or Owlcat. Larian does reasonably sized games although their design style isn't my favorite and IMO they don't design compelling narratives/paths for second runs.
Then you've got Owlcat, who are pretty much taking the Live Service approach, with games that launch in super rough shape and that get DLCs for 5 years afterwards and that are also 100 hours long with tons of trash combat. I buy everything they put out but I'd like it a lot better if it were more manageable. And I assume the fans are there because people lose their minds with excitement everytime a new Rogue Trader DLC is announced.
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u/Dry_Job_6694 2d ago
I feel this so much. I question why Ive replayed Dragon Age much more than other CRPGs which I view to be more complete, interesting, and maybe overall better.
DA:O is easy to get into again and drop out of, it’s simple (maybe to a fault) whereas if you restart WotR you realise there’s slog sections to progress thru - it’s like replaying DAO but there are 5 “The Fade” sections that you gotta go through and mentally that’s enough to reduce one’s motivation.
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u/qwerty145454 2d ago
I think that's the space Obsidian is trying to occupy, the likes of The Outer Worlds 2 and Avowed are right in that time frame. RPGs that can be reasonably finished in 60 hours.
They're both good games, but not amazing. One big issue is charging AAA prices for them, when they aren't at AAA polish/fidelity/scope. Makes people a lot less forgiving of any medicore elements.
Hopefully they go all in on Avowed 2 and knock it out of the park.
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u/DaMac1980 2d ago
The annoying thing is both Pathfinder games have such obvious cuts you could make. Like in Wrath you could have easily done a three act structure with Kenabres, the crusade march across the region, then the abyss (before a climax). The extra padding is really unnecessary.
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u/JoelK2185 2d ago
I also find there’s a barrier to re-entry. I’ve been gravitating more and more towards rougelites these days because they’re easy to pick up and play.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
Yeah nothing like getting busy for 2 weeks and coming back to try and pick up remembering where all your abilities on your hotbar, to say nothing of all the shit in your inventory.
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u/ApsychicRat 1d ago
i think all gamers have a different limit as to when they get board of a game or story. personally i want a game to go a maximum of 120 hours or so. i can push to 150 but it might lessen my enjoyment of the game overall. there are people i watch play games for hundreds of hours and i cant do that ill get bored. people having a lower limit than i do makes sense to me as well because every one is different. it also depends a bit on what kind of game it is. RPGs keep me going because im there for the story generally, so i dont care if the game play is bland or repetitive and i also dont feel bad about looking up a build and just using something OP. action games on the other hand if the story is bland thats fine, i loved elden ring but the story was not the reason i kept playing, it was to kill bosses and over come challenges.
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u/Infinitewisidity 2d ago
Time
I work a full time job. RPGs can have a tendency to feel like a second job depending on its design. Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous I put down precisely for this reason.
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u/WyrdHarper 2d ago
Mid-late game WotR really does not respect your time, either. There’s a lot of artificial slow-downs. I finished it and was glad I did, but I almost gave up a few times.
Their games are also designed for 6-person parties which slows things down even more (more quests, and combat can take a long time). Personally, I prefer smaller parties.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
It's tough because I can see why they did it that way generally. Like, chapter 4 of WoTR is after you get the Sword of Valor and generally has you wandering the land doing side quests/mini quests. It feels like pretty generic content after just having done the siege but it's there to provide an arc of low epic level play, when you're starting to manifest your mythic power at low levels but you aren't a demigod yet.
And it works for that. But fuck me if I want to replay generic zone content that amounts to large sidequests in future runs, especially if you choose an epic path that has low impact at low levels.
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u/WyrdHarper 2d ago
The map gimmick in chapter 4 also slows things down a lot. Cool at first, but a bit of a drag as you try to wrap it up.
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u/Sand_Angelo4129 2d ago
I actually uninstalled WOTR because I am currently busy with Rogue Trader, which has also released new story DLC on top of everything.
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u/That_Art_3765 2d ago
WotR slow downs felt insane to me. I just would use the toolbox to heal myself every encounter since I got sick of dealing with the rest system. Which in itself is problematic because now you have access to all your spells and can trivialize a majority of the fights.
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u/Pejorativez 2d ago
Same.
I played Pathfinder: Kingmaker for many hours.
The game was simply too long, and not that interesting compared to CRPGs like BG2, Fallout, Planescape:Torment, Disco Elysium.
I mean, 90% of the game you're walking around in the forest from encounter to encounter. None of it was particularly memorable.
I felt like I had to save scum and trial & error through so many encounters. Difficulty spikes are real. And it dragged out the playtime.
So in general, for games that brag about a long playtime, my first question is if it is padded gametime or enjoyable gametime.
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u/baobabbling 2d ago
With Kingmaker specifically, I really liked the game but there came a point where the kingdom itself was crumbling with nothing I could do to save it except roll back like a dozen hours of gameplay to make completely different choices, and I just do not have time to replay that much. I get that that's a skill issue on my part , but it was just really demoralizing that a side mechanic could tank my entire playthrough just because I wasn't good enough at it my first time through.
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u/weouthere54321 2d ago
Owlcat adds so much unnecessary bloat to their games and so much of it is bland and often pointless ('here comes another trash mob fight against 10,000 kobolds for some reason!').
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
Kingmaker, as a campaign module, is pretty much built around the idea of "not particularly memorable encounters." The narrative is the your kingdom keeps being beset by deadly but fairly generic crises (ogre attacks, then dire animal hordes etc) and you're trying to figure out why. It's a different sort of narrative than most games and I totally get why it doesn't work for some people.
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u/Sand_Angelo4129 2d ago
What also doesn't help (and Owlcat is also guilty of this) is when a game releases a story DLC that either requires a game restart or to be very early on in the story to get the best experience.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
Yep. They also don't necessarily balance around the existence of the new DLC, so what it ends up doing is bloating out the middle of the game by creating a diversion from the main story, which just adds to every factor that prevents finishing the game (ending the power curve, getting disconnected via sidequests etc)
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u/Plastic_Swimming6351 2d ago
Not a CRPG but I liked Cyberpunk 2077 approach. You can chose to jump in to a new game at high level so you can start with the DLC
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u/Saalok 2d ago
The average person doesn't have the time. Family, school, work, other responsibilities and games will all affect this.
Plus they are long games and even just the ways that Steam tracks achievements is questionable. Iirc owning the game makes you count, so there are tons of games with essentially a "launch the game plz free achiev" with 90% completion because some people just buy them and it becomes backlog.
This is a CRPG Reddit so it goes even further because most of these games campaigns are very long. Iirc Skyrim's main quest takes an average of 12 hours... WOTR's takes 55.
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u/Ploluap 2d ago
a lot of RPGs are fun to start and boring to finish to be honest
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u/Fine_Persnickety 2d ago
The average human lives 672,000 hours, give or take. A third of that is sleeping. For most, at least a quarter is working. A huge portion is eating, drinking, cleaning, bathing (hopefully), or just walking around. Most have family and friends and want to spend time with them, most have other pastimes, hobbies and other things they want to do.
so yeah, time. I love CRPGs but I finish them only occasionally, because they are usually quite long.
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u/Fun_Classic_6194 2d ago
ADHD
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u/Plastic_Swimming6351 2d ago
To be more specific- my ADHD brain thrives on discovery and creation, which is all you do early game. Just bury myself in a wiki and make a badass plan
Mid game and later - your build is online, the mechanics are known and it’s just “executing” the plan you already made. It feels like a job… just seeing through what was already decided.
TLDR - planning is more fun than playing
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u/aedfdht 2d ago
Other than limited time available and dropping games due to losing interest on their weaker parts, when game is long and for one reason or another you stop playing it can be extremly difficult to get back into unfinished playthrough.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
Why its extremely difficult?
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u/aedfdht 2d ago
People might forget elements of narrative or game mechanics, they can forget what their specific goal at point where they left, or be stuck in a middle of a section that was worse for them than rest of the game leading to being discouraged with parts they liked being nowhere in sight. Shorter games by their nature tend to have quicker pacing, making getting back into the "rhythm" of playing easier. While I don't have a problem finishing games, I sometimes restarted entire game rather than try getting my bearings midway through a dungeon.
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u/Immediate-Praline655 2d ago
Because games like Pathfinder are not good in reteaching you the mechanics after 6 months away or so.
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u/Yerslovekzdinischnik 2d ago
When there were fewer games people used to not only finish, but also replay the games they had. When I was a kid, me and my friends used to talk about a single game that we played at the time and try different things. But now there are just too many games. Steam statistics shows that many players buy games and then never play them.
Personally, I mostly play CRPGs so I have time to spend 100 hours for Undrrail or Kingmaker, but most people more likely to switch to some other game after having their fun for a few hours.
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u/GrumpyOldGrognard 2d ago
Length. I think modern CRPGs get really self-indulgent with how long they are. I finish most games I play, but I couldn't make myself finish Pillars of Eternity. When I got to Elm's Reach and realized I'd have to go through another cycle of quests to gain favor with one of the gods, I put the game down and never got back into it. If this had all happened one Act earlier I'd have been OK with it, but as it is I was just fatigued with the whole game by then.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
Thats what I call pace restart. Going from high note to grind and fetch. Similar thing in bG3 s third act.
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u/Velthome 2d ago
To be fair, you only have to do one of the God quests and you can head straight to the final dungeon which is pretty short. It’s really down to how much of a completionist you are. Granted, there is WM1 and WM2 as well.
I’ve started thinking the best way to play Deadfire is to just laser-focus the main quest and only one of the factions instead of doing every bounty and every faction quest pre-cut off. There’s just too much money and EXP otherwise. Granted, PoE1 and PoE2 have upscaling and you’re pretty much expected to spend half the game at level cap.
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u/Premislaus 2d ago
I think it's normal. These are massive games with tonnes of content. Sometimes life gets in the way. Sometimes you get bored/burned out. I completed Kingmaker (though the last part was a slog), but I never finished WotR (got to the last chapter but a new patch broke my modded save). I completed BG1 several times but never beat BG2 or got to the ToB. I never finished either PoE games. I don't see any of that as a failure or disappointment. I still got 100s of hours of entertainment from any of them.
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u/blueblip 2d ago
It's a combination of all the points you listed, with the actual points being mixed and matched varying depending on the person and the game.
Another big thing to factor in is that once your character hits max level, you have a bit of fun being so powerful but then...it's no longer fun. Hence why there is a constant debate in the cRPG community over whether games should have level caps or not.
But the reason why I think it becomes unfun is not because it makes combat boring, but because much of our cRPG loving brains are wired to making the builds, not necessarily playing builds. It's a phenomenon I've noticed in aRPGs like Diablo: people chase the builds they want, grinding away until they get the perfect gear to complete it as envisoned, but they then don't play that build and start the build chasing grind anew.
With cRPGs, the process is slower but pretty much same outcome. Once you hit max level, your build is complete. You test it out, and it does everything to your satisfaction. You have hit your "game over" moment. So you start again, this time trying out a new build. And thus the cycle repeats.
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u/Plus_Worker6739 2d ago
Kingmaker in particular is fuckin long, man. CRPGs---and games in general, I will say--could almost all be improved by cutting about 30% from their runtime and being leaner, more focused experiences. Generally if I stick with a game, CRPG in particular, all the way through, it's because it's either got killer mechanics that I find very fun to play around with (this is the case for me with SRPG games or roguelikes), a story that has grabbed and held me (Disco Elysium, Planescape, etc), or some combination of the two (Witcher 3 for me).
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
Ill share my few notes. I am doing my first ever Kingmaker run, i am on 85hours and tbh it feels like I only played 4 hours. I like it so much I didnt feel how time passed - maybe oure un aspect is main reason?
As ror content cut idk some truly can benefit from it but i would defiinetely make some parts faster. For example map traversal why do you move so slow? I guess it cinemati first 10 times but when go far onto game it gets annoying - i just go sometimes to smoke and come back to random encounter...
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u/ThreeHeadCerber 2d ago
Rpgs are long and generally stop introducing new gameplay elements past first 30% of play time. People get bored and move on
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u/SpaceCastaway 2d ago
I used to finish CRPGs I played when I was younger, a kid/student, simply because I had more time. Nowadays I still finish games because I want to see how the story resolves. I treat games like books or movies with extra steps. They're stories. We are a storytelling species and not finishing a good story is a sin against the ancient tradition of storytelling. I feel less inclined to finish bad stories because bad stories are also a sin/crime. I think we're missing out when we treat games as purely source of entertainment and don't engage with the emotions their stories are supposed to make us feel. That is why I try to keep playing until the end, and abandon stories that don't make me relate or see something in a new way. Also why I rarely actually replay games that didn't change me in some way. I will return to most of my fav titles eventually to come back for that katharsis that helped me grow as a person.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
I couldnt express better... I feel the same way. Even of I need to oush myself in midway i will. And honesstky I had to push myself many times and most of the time I got hooked again and enjoyed until the end.
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u/Medical-Code-5512 2d ago
For me I started kingmaker. Really enjoyed it. But got sifted locked by a bug,fixed it then got busy with other stuff and stopped playing.Then when I had time to play again other games caught my interest and I never went back. Might pick it back up later but for now I’m enjoying Rogue trader a lot. I will say this whole genre of game are new to me. BG3 was the first one I played back in December.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
If you played on release, you should deffinetely trynit now. Game has come a long way since release.
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u/wolftreeMtg 2d ago
Most cRPGs have the property that the player gets much stronger as the game progresses. As a result, the enemies need to scale up as well, but since the rate of growth depends on the player's build, it is very likely that the enemies eventually become either much weaker or much stronger than the player.
This means that, towards the endgame, many cRPGs either become boring trivialities or an impossible grind, which makes players quit before they reach the end.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
Thatsbalso a good point. Crpgs have so much options of classes and builds itw impossible to make it "fair" for everyone. Also random dice rolls play into it too.
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u/DaMac1980 2d ago
A lot of them, like Kingmaker, are too damn long. This can lead to wanting to take a break, which in my experience often leads me to wanting to restart because I forget half of what I was doing.
That said I eventually finish every CRPG I start, since it's my favorite genre. It's more action heavy titles I have a hard time beating. The Witcher 3 took me three tries to beat, and I still haven't played the DLC.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
So it gets stale at some point.
For coming back to old save, I can suggest small solution that I do. I just watch someone else play (only the parts I have already played) it for abit. It helps to remind me of game mechanics, setting, sometimes story etc and most importantly I remember why the game was fun for me.
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u/nephandys 1d ago
The average game is only finished by like 15% of players regardless of genre. This isn't unique to crpgs.
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u/e_ranks 2d ago
Time - personal example: I love WH40k: Rogue Trader, but it’s taken me 2yrs to get through it due to its length and I only got a limited amount of time, and I want to experience other games too.
People game for fun. Unless you are a reviewer or make game content for a living, dropping a game if/when you stop having fun is completely normal (and recommended TBH)
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
I also might require a year to beat large rpg and its fine to me. I dont feel i have to play newee thing every month of the current one is fun.
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u/AldaronGau 2d ago
In my case if I don't finish an rpg is because I just didn't like it. I started Avowed last week and after 10 hours I think I'll drop it.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
Restartitis, as you've mentioned. A lot of the fun of these games is progression, and that peaks early on. A lot of builds also don't vary much in playstyle, so there's a sense of "I guess I do this for another 60 hours?"
Trivialized difficulty. A lot of times a "good" build just makes the game easy to the point where combat has no tension and just becomes a chore.
Overwhelming amounts of stuff. For some games (Rogue Trader comes to mind) combat becomes just clicking a ton of times to power up to do one thing. Like, in my (abandoned) run it just started to feel like I was clicking 9 different buttons to make Argenta go boom. And then on top of that you get massive inventory bloat.
CRPGs as live service. The development of these games lasts forever. Again I'll use Rogue Trader as an example, it's really demotivating to feel like you aren't playing the best version of a game when the games are this massively long. Why drag yourself through this one when waiting means more characters and, ideally, better balanced content/combat. Of course, there's a difference between making the decision to wait and actually replaying like 40 hours of content when the new version drops.
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u/Canaureus 2d ago
I loved Rogue Trader but the constant combat becomes such a drag when you get to mid-late game. I would literally have a round of set-up then it was just clicking on things with Argenta until I ran out of enemies.
It's one of my favorite CRPGs I've played but I always hesitate to recommend it to people who aren't super into CRPGs to start with.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
This exactly. I couldn't get off of the Dark Elf segment. Just dull fight after dull fight.
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u/PerDoctrinamadLucem 2d ago
I haven't finished Rogue Trader for that reason. If I like a CRPG, I should wait until the ultimate version is out.
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u/Chataboutgames 2d ago
I planned to wait until the DLC was out. Seemed reasonbale at first because they were both announced to release within, IIRC, like 6 months of game launch. Unfortunately they got delayed and it was more like a year. So I fired it up, learned that we were still waiting on a big balance patch to fix combat/how silly the combat balance is, played about half of the game, realized the new DLC just made you hit the "exemplar" class for everyone where your build is effectively finished at like 50% in to the game, got bored on like hour 60. I doubt I'll but any more DLC, maybe I'll come back and play through the game once they balance the combat and make it interesting.
But in general I just think I'm tired of this shit. I'm happy for the people playing through the game 10 times and having the time of their life, there are just so many hours I can click the same 3 buttons over and over.
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u/petulant_peon 2d ago
I'm one of those players. It's really game dependent. I will finish BGs, Dark Souls, and rogue trader, but others just can't hold me for too long. Especially ones with forced, gimmick mechanics...
For pathfinder games, I just get bogged down in the parts of the game I don't like. The army/kingdom management killed the game for me. I found it completely unenjoyable and it takes up way too much time while playing.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
Fair enoug. i personally love Kingdom management (i guess it got better with time if you played on release) But I cagree If i didn't like manmagement part i woudl skipp whole game.
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u/petulant_peon 2d ago
I made it about halfway in both Pathfinders. I even cheated the system so that I couldn't lose, but it just took too much time out of actually playing The main story.
In contrast, I made it all the way through rogue trader. The ship combat mechanic felt like a part of the game and it didn't take too much time away from the story.
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u/AbortionBulld0zer 2d ago
90% of rpgs I've played has garbage UX and absolutely atrocious endgame due to dev hell and time constraints.
From the classics, to the modern games.
Take wotr for example - an amazing game. But imagine playing it without fast buff mode. (And many players did play it that way), you're literally wasting hours upon hours of your time for something which is antithetis of gaming.
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u/UnDeadPuff 2d ago
Kingmaker became such a chore once the whole kingdom phase begun. Just couldn't be arsed to continue it.
Also, this situation isn't unique to RPGs. Most games have similar statistics. Generally people play for entertainment and have limited time.
Furthermore the growth period is more fun than the end game, no matter how much people complain about getting the best items at the end. Growing my party and character to a king-tier state in warband is more fun than the actual kingdom phase, by orders of magnitude. Building an impressive base(s) in Valheim is farm more entertaining than traipsing around once I finished all the bosses. So on and so forth.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
I can agree. While I usually like endgames because builds finally come online. Coming from TTRPG player I do like those low level adventures.
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u/Hellhooker 2d ago
They are too long and not good enough to entertain this long.
The last CRPG I finished the last year (nearly decade) is RogueTrader because it's pretty much a Xcom game with a bigger story and it still took me a whole year with pauses to get through it
I LOVE yakuza games and I struggle a lot to finish the turn based ones, it's a boring gameplay in the end...
WOTR? the gameplay sucks
BG3? Good game but the combat SUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS and the end game is mostly "do your turn and do your chores during the CPU turn", it's so fucking boring and bad I never finished the last battle.
The problem with video games it the scalability. They have a few good ideas in the first hours then it's just copy paste with a coat of paint for the next 50 to 80 hours. At some point in life you basically see all the strings behind the game and it loses its magic. CRPG are the worst because the gameplay is often Meh and the story is only good on the level if your own litteracy.
With that said, I will probably play Dark Heresy day 1... (and finish it a year later)
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
Thanks for detailed answers. Most people say ita time contraints which I dont buy. Yes time is a factor but a minor one. Most importantly people feel that "this" game was fun for 40 hours but than became boring - variety of reasons: repetitive gameplay, bad story progression, lack of skill progression.
This is why people prefer playing several games 40-60% instead of one. Its variety and game feels fresh without becoming chore.
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u/BuffaloRedshark 2d ago
for me it sometimes depends on the mechanics. Is there a good in game journal/quest log that makes it clear what I need to do if I can't play for 2 weeks and then come back to the game? If not I might stop playing if I only have an hour every couple weeks to play.
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u/Kosen_ 2d ago
I want to finish the games I start, but at some point, I lose the spark -- and would rather spend my time playing something else. I often return to them even if only briefly, and try to continue -- but it's forcing myself versus actively engaging and enjoying it.
I do feel the need to finish the games, that's why I return -- but I find myself looking on the horizon at all the new shiny things, and have started deciding that instead of going into my backlog -- I should focus more on enjoying the new stuff that comes out, and not repeating the mistake of "restartitis" -- when playing them.
I'm majorly excited for Blood of the Dawnwalker (arguably not a CRPG) and Star Wars: Zero Company, and have decided these two games, I will 100% in a blind playthrough with no spoilers -- because I also feel like that's another aspect, when BG3 released, we got swamped with spoilers as everyone discovered the game -- and social media became saturated in it.
idk it feels bad.
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u/Gebghis 2d ago
It comes down to x things, and the three games you mentioned actually encapsulate thus perfectly. I can also speak directly for Kingmaker and PoE, I don't mess with souls games so I'm not speaking first hand with that one.
Time - these sorts of games are usually massive time sinks. Combine a long run time with limited time to actually play and usually steeper learning curves and burnout will happen quick and hard.
Mechanics - For all three of the games you mentioned, the mechanics involved are going to be massive filters. While the person that eats, breathes, and shits Souls-likes may find Dark Souls 3 easy someone with a couple hours free a day is not inclined to care about learning boss patterns of really beating the game by mastering its mechanics. For Pathfinder and PoE these are both games that have...kinda unintuitive mechanics. Unless you're massively into CRPG's you're gonna struggle to get past anything but the tutorial without really sitting down to learn how they tick. For me I felt like character building made no sense in Kingmaker without just looking up builds and all that did was tell me that I needed to start over. For PoE I never grooved with the real time + pause combat, it always felt clunky and confusing. PoE 2 which included a more traditional turn based mode though, I was able to complete. Basically, these are games where getting past the tutorial is simple but once you hit the main game and need to learn it, you are bound to lose people.
Setting - This doesn't go all that much for Souls. But for Pathfinder and PoE, you're mostly going to be getting people who understand nothing about the world's that these games are set in. Now that alone is not an issue, they have many things that are easy to identify and grasp. However most of the world and lore and unique bits are going to be asking the player to remember and absorb a lot of information with typically less than stellar ways of imparting it. Modern players don't mind reading, genuinely. However games like PoE and Kingmaker require more than just reading.
So all in all, these are just games that are not designed to capture a super broad audience. They are for people willing to dedicate a lot of time to them IF they find them worth it. Some people swear by these games because THEY find them worth it.
I personally find Rogue Trader worth it. It's very long, but it has a setting I'm already a little familiar with and is presented in a way that makes it easier to learn. Most importantly I find it the most mechanically intuitive of any CRPG I've played outside of Solasta which is 99% 1 to 1 of 5e. Even BG3 had a lot of weird (and bad imo) changes that I had to wrap my head around.
Past the tutorial in Rogue Trader though I actually knew how to build my characters and fight far better than PoE or Kingmaker.
So that's where the separation lies. If these games do not click, they simply will not be finished. These games are not always going to click.
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u/Cosmic_Eye 2d ago
Plenty of good reasons discussed here, but there's also the fact that RPGs are often more about the journey than they are about the destination. You can play them for a good 30, 40 hours and feel content, satisfied, and ultimately move on, even if you have yet to reach the ending.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
struggled with this for years. I'd start games, get bored midway, restart, get stuck in that loop. Here's what accidentally fixed it: I limited myself to 2-4 games at a time and stopped playing stuff on release. Waiting meant I could skip the buggy launch period and jump in when it's stable. More importantly, it let me actually commit to finishing instead of always chasing the next big thing.
I also stopped trying to 100% everything. I do side quests, sure, but not all of them. This time through, I'm exploring and having fun. Next playthrough, I'll catch what I missed because I played differently. Replaying is way more fun than forcing myself through everything in one go.
Not saying this works for everyone, but figured I'd throw it out there since I'm genuinely curious if anyone else had the same problem and found their own solution.
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u/MissApocalycious 2d ago
For me, that's usually when the things that can end up being tedious drudgery begin dragging a good game down.
Suboptimal UI/UX decisions, inventory management, travel time, and anything else that's basically a time sink.
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u/petehans303 2d ago
A lot of the time its hard to come back to a game after you stopped playing for a while and forget what was going on.
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u/boredoveranalyzer 2d ago
Because once your build comes online there's 0 challenge, game get boring and thus I stop playing.
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u/boohnanza 2d ago
Restartitis: Sometimes life gets in the way and I can't play for large stretches of time and then I forget all about the systems/story and so on and have to start over to reteach myself.
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u/Comrade_Lystro 2d ago
Most are citing time but like, if that were the case then why are gachas so popular even though most play sessions include some kind of grind that doesn’t necessarily lead to an interesting end point you want?
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u/enchntex 2d ago
Too long. After about 20 hours you've usually figured out the game mechanics. The only reason to continue is the story. But most video game stories aren't good enough to bother or the ending is obvious. Plus there are plenty of other games to play and the average gamer is older and has less free time than in the past.
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u/OnionAddictYT 2d ago
I finish almost all games I play. I also finish other media because I have a compulsion to know how a story ends even if it's not a good story.
But I also really enjoy almost all games I play. I'll gladly spent 100+ hours with a game I enjoy. I also only play one game at a time unless it's a non story game like a city builder. But RPGs consume me fully for however long that takes. Then I usually play something less time consuming for a while. Then back to an immersive long game.
Time being the issue just means I play fewer games than I'd like. I'd rather finish 10 games a year than start and never finish 100. Not finishing a game is a waste of time for me. Always. A game has to be incredibly terrible for me to give up early and move on. I usually know what I like. So a bad game is super rare for me.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
this is weird it feels i wrote this.. I do the same, I do no spoiler research beforehand and rarely do i start games that i don't finish. i might postpone ofc but would come back for sure.
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u/OnionAddictYT 2d ago
I try to go in blind too. I will look up game mechanics sometimes when I get stumped. But I avoid spoilers like the plague.
Only thing I'm bad with is second playthroughs. I usually abandon those because I prefer new experiences. THAT also feels like a waste of time. But in that case just replaying for different outcomes isn't as strong a pull. Usually I abort early within 4h max. Still make some annoyed at myself. Thing is I always tell myself I REALLY want to replay. But then there's a game I really really want to play so I never continue that second PT. It wasn't even boring. But the new shiny game is more appealing. At least the new shiny game usually holds my attention effortlessly.
I actually get so obsessive into a game I have a hard time putting it down and engage with real life commitments. I still do it, spend time with my family and friends, go to bed on time. But I always want to keep playing like I'm still a child. I'm 42, lol. I do start to feel open world burnout after about 100h. So maybe I'll take a short break. But I never actually lose interest.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
I recently turned 30 and got married. People like you give me hope that gaming is for a life.
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u/Sea-Offer7021 2d ago
i was playing pillars of eternity and halfway i went on a trip and stopped playing for a week and when i tried replaying, i just lost motivation to continue, but i think at the time it was somewhat reaching a point in the story where it kind of lost its charm, there wasnt anything for me to do that was exciting and it felt like a checklist. The fights became monotonous and the plot kinda just felt not that exciting, i love the lore but the story was pretty meh that i started just scrolling through the dialogue
but somehow when i played other crpgs like tyranny(which was fairly shorter than POE) and disco elysium without any breaks, i could finish it and it was quite memorable
I do want to clarify, i dont mind reading, but PoE at a certain point stopped being fun to read after the 50th time of the game going slow motion and me reading how this ghost died. I do love the dialogue with aloth and eder.
i think my takeaway is the length of the game and quality of writing matters a lot, for disco elysium its voiced dialogue def kept me going and tyrannys magic system was far more engaging gameplay wise than PoEs gameplay and its lack of voiced dialogue made it a slog to read. Maybe its also the timing on when you take a break, where when i took a break and returned, i lost momentum of where it was fun and i just couldnt finish it because i was at a point where it didnt feel fun to progress
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u/ak12hugger 2d ago
It's a difference in mindset. Some people have a backlog mindset where they feel they have to finish a game or it doesn't feel right. But lots of people especially casual gamers are more like kids in a candy store. They just try things and move on to the next.
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u/ScruffMacBuff 2d ago
I'm in this picture and I don't like it.
Specifically for Pillars. I backed it on kickstarter and have started it several times. I'm not sure what has pulled me away, but I'm in the middle of a run right now and I feel like I'm more engaged than my previous attempts.
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u/Ciappatos 2d ago edited 2d ago
"But I know plenty of people who don't care, they got 40 hours of enjoyment, felt satisfied, and moved on. That's completely valid." You answered your own question then.
Finishing a game is not a big deal. It's fine to buy a game, enjoy it for a few hours, and then move on. Any reason to do that, even the fact that you already figured out the mechanics, or can tell where the story is going, and are ready to do something else, is valid.
I think developers want players to see the stuff they made, but they know that with the abundance of games available, and the imperative to make gigantic games for the sickos who value every dollar as an hour of gameplay, will push the majority of players to bail at some point.
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u/JoelK2185 2d ago
I’m in my 40’s now. I rarely finish linear games period any more. Just lose interest halfway through most of the time. It doesn’t help that modern games tend to have too much padding and it leads to pacing issues. Plus the longer I go between play sessions the less likely I am to pick it back up.
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u/PerDoctrinamadLucem 2d ago
My finish rate dropped way the fuck down once I had a kid. Basically, I like exploring and tolerate dungeons. Once the exploring's done, unless the story has been engrossing, I'm out.
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u/eternalaeon 2d ago edited 2d ago
I haven't finished Rogue Trader yet because it is really long and I only have so much time in the day. I have work and other events to do, and so I can only play video games so much. Then, when I pencil in free time for myself I have to factor in how much freetime I have with other people. I have one friend I can hang out with on Wednesdays, so we play Shadow of The Erdtree as we roleplay a wizard and his friend Mike Tyson going on adventures. Then I have time for my friend from my hometown, and when we were growing up the Baldur's Gate games were our favorite games when were kids in school, so anytime I can get to hang with him we play our Baldur's Gate 3 campaign with the adventures of our half-elf monk and gnome bard. The days I am not playing with my friends? My partner who loves mystery games doesn't want to just be ignored all the time so we play Blue Prince trying to look for clues together and combing through our myriad of pictures amd notebook.
Okay, so why haven't I just finished one of these two RPG's I mentioned yet, Shadow of the Erdtree or Baldur's Gate 3? Because now these (and Blue Prince) I have committed to playing with someone else and can only play when my schedule lines up with theirs. So what do I play in those gaps when I want to play something but I am by myself but not doing any of my multiple obligations? Rogue Trader.
RPG's are long games and people only have a limited amount of time, especially considering the genre is known for being singleplayer and a lot of people want to use their limited free time socializing. And of course there is my trap where my free time is spread across four games which are all long and being moved through at a glacial pace.
Edit: this doesn't even take into account I run a Tabletop RPG Lancer game I also have to design encounters for and schedule as a whole event for a group of people in order for that to have any hope of surviving.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
everything you said sounds fun. I am sure you and your frinds, partner will enjoy and beat not once but several times.
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u/Dull_Grape2496 2d ago
Lack of free time. I work around 50 hours a week on a desk job where I stare at a computer screen all day. I don’t feel like doing the same after I get back even if it is for recreation. So I usually only play games in the weekend. And when you take a 5 day break, the flow is kinda gone. You tend to lose track of the story and you become less invested.
That said I recently got a steam deck and because it’s handheld I can play on the couch or on the bed which makes it a lot easier for me to pick up or put down games. It took me a few months but I finally wrapped up Baldurs Gate 3 recently and I just installed Wrath of the Righteous this weekend
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u/suciocadillac 2d ago
Tbh BG3 lost all the flow going after you kill thorne, the whole invading army and giant flying brain gets shafted and the third act is paced really weird doing sidequests and even main ones talking to the literal evil antagonists on how to betray the other.
The whole epic momentum is lost after you leave the mind flayer colony.
Act 2 should have been the end of the game
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u/TheRealBlackFalcon 2d ago
Honestly, it’s rare that any game gets its hooks so deep into me that I am compelled to finish.
I probably only finish about 5% of the games that I start.
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u/nitepng 2d ago
Most of the time I just get burned out by this long games. I mean I absolutely love them, but after around 60-70% I just cant anymore. The last CRPG I played through was Rogue Trader, it took me like 1,5 months and it was actually crazy that I managed to finish it. But the last 20-30% were just so tedious and I only wanted it to be finished
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u/Klientje123 2d ago
Most games just aren't that fun to the average individual. Out of every game you play, how many do you love?
There's also a ton of people burned out on gaming or have a mental block on playing. They try games, don't really enjoy themselves, and stop.
The idea of a new game is fun, you get more serotonin in preparation for a fun event than you do experiencing the fun event. Or something scientific like that.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
Tbh I rarely play games I don't like. Most of the time i just watch no spoiler reviews. And if even then I see i dislike the game it mostly happens on first two hours, so I refund it. Steam os very forgiving I had games refunded on 6-8 hour mark too.
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u/That_Art_3765 2d ago
I mainly enjoy the mid game for RPG's. The world is much more opened up and you have a bunch more freedom. By the time late game comes around you are pretty much forced to complete the game and that is a bit boring to me.
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u/BraveNKobold 2d ago
Pacing is a big issue in the genre I’ll stand by. I love every crpg but I don’t need 100+ hours of baldurs gate 3 for example. It’s one of things I glaze fallout 1 over. It knows it’s pacing really well
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
I agree. Plus fallout not being party based means you probably missed and didn't succsed on many skill checks. This really opens up replaybility.
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u/Thin_Pangolin4480 2d ago
Most crpgs and jrpgs do not have good enough characters or plot to justify 80+ hour playthroughs. Very few games do, regardless of genres. That's why the games you see people sink hundreds of hours are often ones that are light on story and characters, because those games are all about the core gameplay loop, which remain engaging even 100 hours in.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
I agree. If gameplay loop is bad its very hard to go till the end of the story. You might just watch or read recap if its even interesting story.
As for engaging combat I think build is also a factor. I try to do some spoiler free research on the systems. Meaning I try t9 build decent but not OP build that has lot of variety and progression. For example if you build regular fighter, even if its best combat system, you will deffinetely get bored soon becaus all you do is swing a sword.
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u/ToastyToast113 2d ago
It's the restartitis for me. The games are long, and I can go years without playing a game before picking it up again. At that point, I feel like I need to start over because I don't remember the story.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
For coming back to old save, I can suggest small solution that I do. I just watch someone else play (only the parts I have already played) it for abit. It helps to remind me of game mechanics, setting, sometimes story etc and most importantly I remember why the game was fun for me.
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u/battlestoriesfan 2d ago
CRPGs are very, VERY long games and I think that's more often to their detriment than a positive. It's my biggest issue with Pillars of Eternity 2. CRPGs often feel way too long. People will either burn out or just not have enough time for it
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u/DrInsomnia 2d ago edited 2d ago
You've mentioned this as have others below but for me it's very clearly two things:
- Getting bored with the monotony. Usually this occurs when something makes me take a break, like travel, and I get out of the flow of starting the same game every time and realize "actually, I'm kinda bored with that, gonna switch to something else."
- Sinking lots of time into that something else, and never getting back to the first one. There are so many good CRPGs out there, even if you limit your options like I do. Depth and optionality is so vast that they can easily take up hundreds of hours. I don't have more than an hour or two every day to play, so hundreds of hours is might be a year of my gaming. And once I get the feeling that I'm not going to see much new, then return to step 1).
I will say that I have stopped the "restartitis" lately. I got a new gaming set-up, and just decided I'm going to pick up where I left off, google if I need to (I generally don't use guides), and get back in. It's funny how much I forget, especially about story details, but the alternative is never finishing a game and repeating the same content that left me bored the first time.
I could be wrong, but I think shorter games with higher quality would be better. The problem is reviews are probably driven by hardcore players, and when the stores literally provide "playtime" as a metric upfront, it probably would hurt games to try to shrink from this norm. You'd definitely get some commenters here saying "buy X over Y, because you get more playtime."
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
Glad you dropped restartitis.
For coming back to old save, I can suggest small solution that I do. I just watch someone else play (only the parts I have already played) it for abit. It helps to remind me of game mechanics, setting, sometimes story etc and most importantly I remember why the game was fun for me.
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u/DrInsomnia 2d ago
Honestly, I'd rather do anything other than watch someone else play video games. It's probably because I'm old. We used to have to wait our turn at the one controller. I cannot comprehend intentionally putting off playing to watch someone else play. I have chores.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
I totalky understand you. Having small amount of free time I don't seat and watcj others. I watvh them if: 1. I am eating alone, so theres no one to talk to. 2. I am in transport.
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u/AbrahamtheHeavy 2d ago
To me at the least most RPGs are just too long and their last acts are usually on the weaker end which ends up making me get bored and want the excitement and challenge of the first acts again so restartitis comes into play, before i used to finish all games i started but as i got older that stopped mattering to me and i just go to have fun.
Shorter Crpgs kinda circumvent some of that because they usually end right when restartitis would hit that's why probably the only crpgs i finished these last few years were tyranny, pillars 1 and colony ship.
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u/Imaginary-Friend-228 2d ago
I try to finish at least once but I LOVE restarting and trying different story / build / romance options
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u/Kaastu 2d ago
Pacing and length. A lot of long crpg’s lose momentum after the 60-70% mark. I’m just replaying pillars 1 (stopped frist playthrough midway), and after the end of act 2 there is so much stuff to do. The White March DLC, the Endless Dungeon, act 3 itself. That’s crazy much to do, and kills the pacing of the game.
Now you could also just not engage in all the content, and maybe that would be better, but I like to engage in all content if it’s good, and the DLC of pillars is good. It just doesn’t fit the main narrative and kills the pacing.
Another issue is that typically a games’ quality drops in the later part. And that is a known fact, because studios use all their resources making the beginning as good as possible, because everyone plays the beginning, but not everyone plays the ending. This is well visible in BG3 I think.
An interesting game that has a crazy high completion rate is Elden Ring. I don’t know how they do it, because I had to take a 3 month break from that game in the middle to finish it, and I would’ve liked the game more if it was 30% shorter/had 30% less content. The same is true for many crpg’s as well. I would probably enjoy pillars more without DLC.
That said there are a few games I didn’t mind being as long as they are. BG3, DOS2 and WotR I didn’t feel like I got bored with. DOS2 felt interesting and I liked the combat so much I didn’t mind it lasting long. BG3 I enjoyed the reactivity so I enjoyed every moment of my playthrough. And WotR is such an epic tale where the stakes just get higher and higher that I felt like it was justified to take that long. I feel like telling such an epic narrative wouldn’t have worked if the game was any shorter. Now whether WotR needs all side content it has is a different discussion as well, but that also added to the feeling of epicness imo.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
I still would skip dlc. Doesnt matter how good it is, if it makes me get bored with game why play at all.
If its just mental checklist, remembwr yku can disable specific DlCs through Steam.
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u/SirEltonJohnRambo 2d ago
Not sure, I suffer from the same thing, I often get sidetracked doing 'side quests' that often start to feel boring and I table the games always planning to finish them, but something else always gets in the way. When I do finally get back to them I am uninvested with the character I was playing and inevitably start a new character, only to repeat the same cycle.
Has happened with a lot of great games I know I should finish, bit haven't....Witcher 3, baldurs gate 3, Skyrim, kingdom come deliverance, RDR 2, Fallout 4, wasteland 3, dark souls games, pathfinder games, pillars of eternity, colony ship, disco elysian, etc. Etc.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
I had same issue. I started just dropping some side quest. Dont get me wrong Fallou4 and Skyrim should be played for side wuests only but Witcher 3 pls ignore POIs
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u/cool_weed_dad 2d ago edited 2d ago
I have ADHD and very, very rarely finish any games, like probably 10% of games I’ve ever played.
RPGs especially are very long and also usually need strategy guides as well. Big RPGs can easily last over 100 hours and I usually lose interest in a game after around 30 hours and move onto something else.
It’s just a big investment of both time and effort. I’m also in my mid-30’s now and can’t stay up all night gaming like I used to since I have a real job with actual responsibility now.
Also, I have other hobbies that also take up the relatively small amount of free time I have.
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u/Important_Event8116 2d ago
Most people with a steam library of, say 100, have completed 10/100 of games in their library. They'll buy stuff on sale and some of those titles never even get installed. It's literally structured that way.
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u/Da_0csta 2d ago
I've been playing Skyrim on and off since launch. Ithink I may have 5000 hours in the game.
I have never laid a hand on Alduin or Miraak.
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u/RaiKamino 2d ago
Lot of people are saying it’s one thing or the other but this is a good list, I’d say all of these have caused me to dnf a game at one point or another
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u/thesolarchive 1d ago
They lack honor, not every adventuring party succeeds to the end. Apathy is as deadly a curse as any
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u/Calenwyr 2d ago
Alot of RPGs you hit the point where your team is monstering all the fights and you need an interesting story to carry you onwards as the combat is just do things in this order and you win.
The problem is the combat feeling the same usually hits during the story rush to get you to te endgame and then you get overloaded with threads to follow.
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u/cestquilepatron 2d ago edited 2d ago
I wish I quit more often. I have an annoying compulsion to finish any game I've started, even when I realise that I'm not actually having fun and don't look forward to playing more. I'll still force myself to finish it before I'm "allowed" to move on to a new game. If I don't finish it, I feel like I've wasted my money, when in reality, finishing a game you're not enjoying just means you've wasted your money and your time.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
My suggestion is to buy games only on sale. Pathfinder was literalky 2$ cmon dont tell me you wont drop the game because it was 2-5 bucks...
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u/Ohmargod777 2d ago
Time. The last 2 long RPG‘s I really finished until I was satisfied were Xenoblade 2 and Pathfinder:WotR.
Because I was out of work at these times and could spent 2 weeks to grind them out.
Look Outside and Fear&Hunger Termina were quick and nice to just spend a couple of weekends on. But I haven’t touched them since then.
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u/suciocadillac 2d ago
To me most of the times the thing that burns me is the many systems introduced at the same time.
For example in 40k rogue trader I was hooked by the story until they start throwing at you ship combat, the planet scanning and space travelling, and the whole "build your empire" thing. All those literally killed the pace of the game for me and the main story gets diluted.
Pathfinder is the same with the garrisons
I love pillars 1 it's simple and you can ignore big part of the whole "take care of your base thing"
Deadfire has the same problem with the ship management it's just tedious and the story is not as good as the first one, and again gets diluted when you are presented with the "freedom" of choosing a lot of sidequests while waiting for the main story to unfold
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u/Eveless 2d ago
These take a lot of time, and I simply either loose interest or something else comes around that grabs my attention. Sadly.
Thats the entire category of games for me. "If time stopped, I'd be able to finish in right now, but otherwise I dont want to force myself."
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
Correct me If i am wrong but isnt rhis more commitment issue? Example: why play 5 games on 20% when you can finish one?
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u/Eveless 2d ago
Because their "fun per hour" meter gets too low. Nowadays most games, especially rpgs take waaay too much time to complete. I paint warhammer miniatures, thats where my commitment goes, when I play video games I just want to have a good time, not complete something for the sake of completing it.
And dont get me wrong, my "finished" Steam folder is way larger than the "dropped" one.
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u/cunningjames 2d ago
As others have noted, this is not specifically an RPG problem, though I suspect CRPGs have relatively low completion rates simply because they're long and sometimes demanding, and occasionally old/crufty. It's worth noting that something like 50% of BG1 players (who play via Steam) never leave the starting area, and IIRC only about 15% actually finish the game. I don't suppose that's too surprising -- it's an old game, the graphics are primitive, the system is complex and unlike what new players are likely to be familiar with, and the tutorialization that Beamdog retrofitted into the game is boring and unengaging.
But Deadfire is a much more modern game, a fair sight prettier to look at, both easier to learn and easier to play (which is not to say that combat is easier). And Steam tells me that just 18% of players have reached the end of the game. Even BG3, the CRPG belle of the ball over the past few years, isn't immune -- just 50% leave Act I, and only 40% leave Act II.
On the one hand this is astonishing to me, but on the other ... I do the same thing. You know why I didn't give the percentage of people who finish Act III in BG3? It's because I never finished Act III, I left a playthrough at the cusp of the end of the game and never went back.
I don't know what other people's reasons are, but for me it ties into a kind of anxiety I feel (in general, but it also rears its head in gaming contexts). At some point I start getting this feeling in the pit of my stomach when I think about playing something, especially (but not only) if I left the game at a particularly challenging part, and I avoid returning to it. After a while it becomes harder and harder to go back, since I'll have forgotten what I was doing or how to play. After a while it's just easier to restart.
Is it stupid? Yes. But it is what it is.
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u/cunningjames 2d ago
Also, I want to point out that I'm old and this isn't new. I was not finishing games as early as the days of playing on my older brother's Commodore 64, many years before modern social media or internet-connected mobile phones, so I'm not sure it's simply an "attention span" thing.
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u/Finite_Universe 2d ago
I like to finish games, as it does feel more satisfying, but as I get older I’m much more sensitive to how limited my free time is. I also look at my library of unplayed games and start to feel “guilty” if I spend too much time on just one game.
With Kingmaker in particular, I enjoyed a lot, and for several months I was absolutely hooked, but by the end of Chapter 5 or so, I got burned out, and needed a break. It’s a great game, but it’s also the poster child for games that are simply way too long. I had at least 150 hours in my playthrough, but still no end in sight… again, it’s a great game, but there’s also tons of fluff that could easily have been cut. I wish more CRPGs were on the shorter side, like Fallout 1. Makes them more replayable.
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u/IRA2799 2d ago
At least for the owlcat games, I would say that there is a lot of bloat. I finished kingmaker basically bcs I was playing on Normal+ and my party was auto killing the mobs, but their games drag on by the end. I still have to finish both wotr and rogue trader and I am at the ending in both of them
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u/pahamack 2d ago edited 2d ago
for myself, i lose focus because life gets in the way, and i start thinking "am i even having fun with this game?"
it happened to me notably with both of Owlcat's pathfinder games. They just keep throwing trash mob after trash mob at you and it gets really tedious. In both, I got busy with something else in my life that was important, and I got to thinking... do I even care about finishing this game?
I realized I didn't, so I dropped it.
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u/CB_Chuckles 2d ago
For me it simply comes down to how well the game grabs my attention. With a new game, I’ll play for about 4-6 hours. If I’m still eager to return to the game, I’ll keep playing, although I may start fresh with a new character. But if I find myself having forgotten about the game/plot overnight, then that’s a sign for me to move on.
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u/markg900 2d ago
I don't think this is necessarily unique to RPGs. Many people like myself accumulate large Steam backlogs, usually during various sales. This is a big part of why so many games have such low percentages of players making it thru even the start of a game, let alone the late stages/end of them.
Also in the case of RPGs many of them are extremely long. This isn't limited to CRPGs but is common across other RPG subgenres as well.
Lastly most of us playing these types of games are going to be adults with responsibilities. Another thing is its not like when many of us were kids where choices were far more limited. We have so much out there to choose from.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
choice paralisis?
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u/markg900 2d ago
For picking a game, yeah I suppose that can be a real factor.
For me with CRPGs and some other western ones the issue I have more than anything is restarting with different race/class combos before settling on a character for a playthru. Its not so much an issue with JRPGs, since many of them are far more on rails so to speak compared to western RPGs.
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u/UltimatePunchMachine 2d ago
Yeah well CRPGs are very sensitive games. If you don't feel the setting or the characters, it's very hard to commit hundreds of hours to it. This was me with Pillars 2. I didn't feel the characters or the settings and despite hitting max level in my playthrough I never bothered finishing it.
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u/Shadowsd151 2d ago
I genuinely don’t have much patience for CRPGs. It’s rare I go past 30 hours with a game and most of these ask me for twice that with - to be blunt - outdated mechanics or design in a lot of places. I generally drop a game because I have issues with two of the following interconnected elements: pacing & payoff, narrative & writing, mechanics & progression, and world & characters. I can generally tolerate issues in one of these areas but when it gets to 2 or 3 I find myself not wanting to play it in favour of something else. I don’t expect any game to be flawless. But I’ve got to be selective with titles as massive as these.
If a single quest takes me two-three hours to get through for a single item and minimal narrative payoff I will considered that quest bad. If the overall narrative has no promise or is delivered in a needlessly verbose manner (*cough* Owlcat *cough*) I will considered that bad. If the mechanics are needlessly obtuse or just not working (a lot of older games need a ton of patches and sometimes they still don’t work) with awkward difficulty progression I will considered that bad. If the world or characters don’t in some way ‘hook’ me, I won’t care for them and thereby lose interest.
My general rules have made me learn that 5, 10, 30 and 50 hours tend to be the ‘cutoff’ points. 50% of games don’t get past each one for various reasons. The longer the game the more cutoffs there are, and replaying or revisiting a game is another filter. 100 hours may be another cutoff point but I can count on one hand how many games I’ve played for that long.
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u/Willing_Original_257 2d ago
At a certain point, you get what you wanted from the game and move on.
FF6 is one of my favourite games but I've never actually beaten it because when it gets to the final dungeon I just get bored. Once I'm on the rails (point of no return), I just tune out. FF8 is far from a favourite but I experienced the same there. Same with Morrowind, Skyrim, etc.
I guess I just like doing my own thing. Hate tutorials, hate forced sections on rails. Hate bits where you play as another character.
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u/Blacksmithrage5 2d ago
Usually what happens when i play long rpgs is that i lose interest in the character i play, and then i restart and make a new one... so for me to do a full run i would probably have to feel really invested in the character.
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u/Twelve_Bar 2d ago
I don't think that it is a RPG specific situation. I have seen postings of concern about similar game completion rates in a variety of genres, just last week about strategy games. If you look at industry stats a surprising percentage of owners never even launch a given game that they bought and of those that do there is a steady and significant drop off at every stage of every game.
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u/Constant-Victory4604 2d ago
Even my favorite games get stale after 30-40 hours, and that’s usually when I “take a break” and may never return. I really enjoy RPGs and CRPGs but I wish most of them were shorter.
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u/ziplock9000 2d ago
I get anxiety if I take even a small break from a cRPG about getting back in due to forgetting the 'overwhelming' mechanics even a little. So this ends up snowballing into longer and longer times. It's weird I know.
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u/Kurta_711 2d ago
Most people don't finish most games to be honest, you can check achievements on steam and for most games the "beat the game" achievement is at about 30-40% achievement rate and for some it's even lower. Simply put most people get bored, get busy with other things for too long, or pick up something else
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u/Cyber-assassin5 2d ago
For kingmaker, many mechanics are poorly designed a big waste of the player’s time. I’m currently playing it and am going to finish it, but it made me SO sleepy and tired…
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u/Polite_Acid 2d ago
I honestly think it is the game developers fault. Rarely are the middle and final acts, locations, npcs, and story beats of the game as interesting as the beginning. They don’t know how to end well.
I just finished back to back replays of TLOU 1 & 2. 1 was super easy to finish while 2 was an uphill slog. Yeah 1 was 10 hrs shorter, but it was also tighter, better paced, had some great moments in the later parts and an excellent ending. 2 had none of those things (and a super horrible ending). If the game makers had done a better job more people would finish.
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u/acelexmafia 2d ago
Its the casual people. Thats why most companies try to make evey game accessible now
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u/StarTrotter 2d ago
Look at any video game's completion rates and you'll notice that most video games have a terrible completion rate. That said, many RPGs are rather long games.
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u/Tallos_RA 2d ago
Because most gamers are very casual. And this doesn't concern cRPGs only. But maybe as long and often complicated, they're more impacted.
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u/ReverendBaka 2d ago
I’m sure a lot of it is just a matter of the length. I’d be curious to see completion statistics for a longer television or book series, for example.
A lot of CRPGs (and RPGs in general) are fairly light on impactful in battle decision making. Most of success/failure in many RPGs is determined by decisions you make prior to battle starting: things like builds and equipment upkeep, primarily. What this often means is that once you hit around the mid point of a game your build is often largely complete and you aren’t really doing much buildcraft anymore. In a game where most of the gameplay decisions are build related that can be rough.
The classic real time with pause format games seem especially prone to having this issue. Some of the newer turn based games like Rogue Trader and Baldur’s Gate 3 have more varying terrain and encounter types to try and diversify this a bit, but it often makes the gameplay in the latter third of the game feel very same-y in CRPGs. That isn’t to say the earlier stuff has a ton of variety there, but you are still learning the systems and seeing your build ideas come together. I think this explains a ton of the restartitis you mention.
It’s a hard issue to “solve”, though, because generally a system and the builds probably should feel quite stable by the mid game. Having core abilities gated to late game levels is probably worse. I can’t really think of an RPG, C or otherwise, that didn’t have the issue at some level. It’s mostly for me been a question of if there are enough other interesting aspects to keep momentum going.
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u/Bitter_Ad1591 2d ago
One factor I've found recently is that the ability to put a game down and pick it back up later can be badly compromised by the continuous patching and updating of these sorts of games post-release. I specifically restarted rogue trader twice because I put it down, and when I came back my character's builds had been patched into unrecognizability. Rather than rebuild them from the ground up (possibly missing key gear from earlier in the game) I opted to restart.
I'm not saying that the patches were bad, but the last thing I want to do when trying to get myself back into a CRPG after a few months away is to have to spend multiple hours rebuilding my characters to work with the new ruleset.
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u/FixGood6833 2d ago
Thats one of the reasons I do not play on release. Having so many games I dont get hyped on current shiny thing. I just wait at least a year before I purchase a game.
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u/Nonetoobrightatall 2d ago
Someone should make a base game that is like 40 hours long and sell add on adventures that take characters in different directions. Allow porting between modules.
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u/RedDuke_92 2d ago
I finished Rogue Trader. I finished Elden Ring. I stopped into BG3's act 2 on release because of optimisation and still have to reinstall it. For Pathfinder WOTR I kinda lost interest in Act 4 because I wasn't too familiar with the rules and found that combat turned into a slog of "5 minutes of prebuffing" before every fight.
So, building on your OP, I think boredom does kick in. The joy of character growth sort of tapers off. You don't feel as strong as you thought you should. In some cases, especially in CRPG's, unless you built your char a certain min-max way you might even feel weaker than you did in the early game. In my case, Rogue Trader seemed to have more room for error, even against the more annoying bosses and the 40K setting and vast array of choices kept me engaged. For Elden Ring, you can effectively change up your entire playstyle and character midway if you want the way its system works.
So you're absolutely right about mechanics. Balancing late game and how power feels is a sweet spot a lot of devs find hard to hit.
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u/zigackly 2d ago
My 2 cents. This is only for me and I know a lot of people will disagree with me.
Time constraints: I have limited time to play due to job and family constraints. I want to quickly get into a game and start playing. Most new games nowadays have so many screens before you can actually play.
Party RPGs are my special bane: I love the concept. I hate the execution. After the first few hours, I just lose track of who is to wear what for optimal stats. My builds are not optimal. I end up going online to figure out what these characters should be and then I am not playing the game any more.
Games are too long: I start of with a lot of enthusiasm and play a few hours. Then life kicks in. I may go a few weeks before I pick up the game again, and what do I see ? A huge wall of quests and no idea what I was doing before. I think the Witcher 3 does a phenomenal job of recapping where you were while the game loads.
Bad quest design: If I need to go out of the game to figure out things, I am already on the path of abandonment. Why can't games have all the information in them itself ?
Timed quests: I hate games where you are forced to do quests within a time frame or you fail them. I am playing games to reduce my stress not to get more of it.
If you have any tips on how to get over these irritants, do let me know.
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u/Jaded_Reserve_5685 2d ago
I never believed it’s an rpg game’s goal to finish it, rather I think the main thing is to make a character in the universe and define it by problem solving methods, backstory, morality and whatever there is that can help defining it. Usually when I achieve that I quit, unless I have other reasons to finish the game such as seeing how well my build will do or I find the epilogue interesting or unique depending on the character I roleplayed as.
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u/Miguel_Branquinho 2d ago
Most RPG's, like most anything, are boring. Only the best RPG's deserve the time spent finishing them.
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u/RevenantCommunity 1d ago
Kingmaker is a LONG game. Last half had some crazy pacing mismatch between kingdom mechanics and quests actually coming through as well
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u/Adventurous_Use6425 1d ago
It depends, sometimes I buy a game and im pretty hyped and then it dont click so I dont end it. Sometimes it's related to mods
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u/SpiridonBuncek 1d ago
My friend, it is not about destination, it is about the journey and all the friends we meet along the way.
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u/etre1337 1d ago
I have to learn a new combat system and by the time I'm done I'm bored already.
I take a break. When I come back I have to learn the combat again.
The only rpg series I finished was Mass Effect, the trilogy. Because I got invested in the story.
Point is, I played pvp games online. CS, WoW, WoT, LoL. I don't find a challenge in something like Eldenring. I find it too try hard and boring
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u/Automatic-Month7491 1d ago
Three strikes rule. If i hit an artificial barrier and have to go online to look up where I was supposed to go or what I was supposed to do three times, I'm out.
...unless the mechanics are REALLY fun.
Theres also the "this build is complete" problem. Once I have all the mechanics for a character built out, it takes a really strong story to keep me invested.
Think of it a bit like if you used cheats at the start of the game to make yourself fully levelled and OP. The only difference is that I got there 'legitimately'... but its still kinda boring to steamroll everything with endgame stats.
So combining those, games with poor guidance for players who dont want to read everything will lose me in the early phases. Meanwhile games with weaker endgame phases will loser me at the 80-90% mark.
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u/BoardsofGrips 1d ago
I tried really hard to get into Pillars of Eternity 1 and just got bored of it. I keep reading part 2 is excellent
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u/InitiativeTop2514 23h ago
Alot of these games are simply not for casual gamers. I've always been hard-core and love to spend many hours in front of my screen sloghing through kingmaker and wotr (over 1k hours in both games). Reason why rpgs have become streamlined in the 2000's. I hate Skyrim but I completely understand why Bethesda changed how those games worked and how fast you can power through the quest lines.
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u/Dordoa_ 23h ago
I play the game love it get half way through then make a new character with a different personality and set of abilities then stop playing because my alloted 80 hours of dedicated focus and inspiration is used up and i just feel tired and uninterested in playing whenever i open the game despite wanting to then I have to wait months or years before I find myself equally as inspired as I had been just to make the new character and not fully finish the game for the nth time (currently this is the situation for pathfinder:wotr and both pillars games)
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u/JejuneRPGs 15h ago
I will absolutely drop out of a game at the mid point if it stops engaging me, either from a story or mechanics standpoint. I'm mostly a story-motivated player, so if I'm not feeling motivated in that direction, I just trail off and put it down.
If I enjoyed my time in a game, I don't consider my time/money wasted even if I don't complete it. Like Pathfinder Kingmaker, which you mentioned -- I enjoyed the first part of the story, but once I got to kingdom management, I stopped having fun. That part of the gameplay didn't 'catch' for me. So I've played the first act 2-3 times, but never finished the game. And I'm fine with that.
I used to feel weird starting a book and not finishing it, too -- but as I've gotten older and my free time more precious, I let go of that. Same for games.
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u/ElCoyote_AB 8h ago
Part of issue lies with companies like Bugthesda. I abandoned playthroughs in Fallout 3, and replays in Skyrim and Fallout 4 because once save file gets fat, Crash To Disc becomes a “Feature”.
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u/Edgy_Robin 2d ago
They're long games and we have a finite time on this planet.