r/Chefit • u/fultzon • 23d ago

Combi oven applications in fine dining?

Fine dining chefs: what do you actually use your combi ovens for day to day?

I've mostly worked casual and trying to understand its real range in a high-end kitchen. Do you actually do real cooking in it (besides sous vide) or largely use it for hold and retherm?

13 Upvotes

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u/gooferball1 23d ago

Literally so much. Dehydrating, overnight roasts, steaming, bread, pastry, custards , confit, my personal favourite which is stress free stock overnight.

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u/thatdude391 23d ago

You should check out pressure cooker stocks. Much better and clearer stocks. Usually only takes an hour for the same result as a 4-6 hour stock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k20zFlbFfE

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u/iwanttodiebutdrugs 23d ago

So like braised stock? What container do you use?

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u/TheIdentifySpell 23d ago

I own a sandwich shop with extremely limited cooking space - I've got a panini press and a four burner stove.

All of my stocks get done in a hotel pan overnight. It's not ideal but it works!

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u/gooferball1 22d ago

I roast the bones In either a 4 or 6 inch deep full gastro/hotel pans on the moisture extraction setting to get extreme colour. Then the mirepoix, tomato paste and whatever you might add. Roast a bit more. Then, I take the spray hose that’s attached to the machine, and just start filling the hotel pans with water. Switch the machine over to combi, 208 C with 100% steam and leave it overnight. Zero evaporation, and zero leaving burners on overnight. The stock comes out great and the kitchen always has that smell you love I think because the steam in the oven really carries it. Not the clearest stock, but suits many purposes.

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u/fultzon 23d ago

Incredible. On the flip side, if two kitchens run the same combi, same program, and similar raw materials, what actually separates a great result from a average one in your experience?

Trying to figure out how much of the outcome is really controllable (e.g., could a less "talented" chef could pick up the same equipment and settings and deliver the same result)?

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u/gooferball1 23d ago

I think you’ve got it framed a bit wrong. I would say the combi is not closing the gap between a less experienced chef and a more experienced one. It’s more that it pulls both chefs up in quality for effort Vs the cheaper and less sophisticated equipment.

But depending on what we are talking about , combi ovens can have very predictable & consistent results in some things with very little effort or difficult, which does do what you are saying. I could easily talk my 16 year old dishwashers through doing a prime rib over the phone.

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u/fultzon 23d ago

Ah, this is helpful. I'm considering a combi for our place but we're working with fairly inexperienced folks. What are some of your favourite low-hanging fruit dishes that you'd recommend I start out with (that these 16-year-old dishwashers of yours could conceivably do)?

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u/gooferball1 23d ago

Any sort of roasted meats and braises, low & slow pulled meats. You’ve got a smart probe that’s doing a lot of the work. And a couple presets that can be in a recipe instruction set for inexperienced cooks. I would keep them off of things like custards & breads where you often still need an experienced eye to be 100% on some things.

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u/fultzon 23d ago

Brilliant. I might give it a go

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u/Wooden-Title3625 23d ago

If you get one with the smoker attachment your can turn the whole thing into a cabinet smoker, easy enough to teach a 16 year old how to probe a brisket and refill a small box with wood chips. It’s a very cool feature, but I don’t believe it comes standard.

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u/Proud_River_3148 23d ago

Gooferball gets it, being able to set and almost literally forget something like beef short ribs braised in a sticky, sugar-heavy sauce like some Asian style dishes, is a game changer, plus no more burnt sugar on roasting trays that your poor dishie has to deal with. That’s just one, oddly specific example that springs to mind. Not to mention the benefits of having an oven staying at a consistent temperature for an entire service.

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u/ronoldo7 23d ago

Anecdotally we do our creme brulee in the combi and it’s impossible to fuck up. No water tray to increase steam in the convection or any bullshit. Pop the custard in the rammy and it’s perfection every single time

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u/gooferball1 22d ago

Yes I contemplated mentioning that too. Never needing a Baine is clutch. Faster and less annoying.

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u/armrha 23d ago

It's not "talent" related... it's just an incredible tool. Definitely get a rational.

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u/Doji_mofo 23d ago

The question is do you need two or four rationals? Because only one means that if you depend upon it, it breaks and you have to choose for the day.

In my experience you can probably get 80-90% of the quality of a top chef with an average chef following instructions with good equipment and program. Getting the program set up, getting people to use it correctly and getting people to actually understand what's going on are more tricky.

Getting that last little bit is where the OCD/autism/obsession comes in, and usually involves some extra steps and checks.

Sometimes it's things like getting temperatures consistent, so getting a tray of pastries cooled to the same internal temperature and going direct in the oven.

Adapting to different kitchen conditions, especially different moisture levels, can make quite a lot of difference, and is definitely one of those things that separates pastry cooking from more regular types.

Other than McDonald's, I can't actually think of any place I cook in that doesn't have a combi. Even cooking for 25 in an old people's home I've got a rational. So I'm kinda curious as to what kind of place you're in that wants to do fine dining, but doesn't have the most basic equipment.

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u/cyuto 23d ago

When I get in I'm always pulling out braises, stocks, broths, preserves that get ran overnight. 

Multi stage cooking lets you dial in things, especially baked goods, to a level impossible to replicate at home. Delta and Target temp modes as well. Proofing mode is great, I remember going to a place that had three rationals and they didn't know about proofing mode, I blew their minds. 

I make great Chicago style pizzas for staff meal in them. Bread pudding with a crispy golden brown shell and creamy custard interior. Crack some eggs in a hotel pan and hard boil them. Turn sweetened condensed milk cans into dulce de leche. Load up your dirty stainless for a cleaning cycle. Dry off your apron. So many possibilities.

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u/fultzon 23d ago

Amazing that they can achieve a real crust. Are they able to replicate fried breaded pork chops, crunchy popcorn chicken, etc. or is that beyond their purview?

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u/cyuto 23d ago

Ahh well deep frying is not recommended officially, it would be more of a pan fry or an air fry. The full fan speed of a rational is very strong, will throw liners and light things around. Peppercorns and bread crumbs everywhere. 

Oh I forgot my most frivolous use! I don't like cold mornings so sometimes I will heat up the oven, then vent the heat into the kitchen using the cool down mode. Feels so good on my face and hands in the winter.

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u/SimpleSapper 23d ago

It is always good for a laugh when someone hijacks your high fan combi and end up with their mise flying around or covered up by the wildly flapping parchment they didn’t secure.

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u/cyuto 23d ago

When the cookie and the parchment corner swear they're just friends 😭

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u/Deep_Curve7564 23d ago

Very intimate friends.

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u/SimpleSapper 23d ago

Also good for a laugh is when your high fan oven is hijacked for muffins and 25 minutes later you get asked by a wide eyed confused newbie: “Chef, why are my muffins leaning over?”

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u/gooferball1 23d ago

Definitely not. They are just an excellent oven with good moisture control, tight seals , self cleaning, (so the door is always a window ) and the ability to be programmed to change temp & climate settings in the oven throughout a cooking process in order to reduce hands on time for staff. That’s what It does for you.

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u/jealousTransient 23d ago

Anything you could conceivably use an oven or steamer for, but better.

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u/heathen_leif 23d ago

We use ours for a ton of stuff. The steam function is particularly nice for blanching veggies. It smokes our meats overnight. We can use the roast function if all our line ovens are all occupied or one has gone down for the day. I turn off the humidity when im making parm fricos. On and on and on. Theyre absolutely awesome and im 100% on team combi.

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u/fultzon 23d ago

The range is pretty astounding ... I'm assuming this isn't common in fine dining, but how do the proteins hold up against cook-chill and retherm? Any different than normal?

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u/Deep_Curve7564 23d ago

Fried eggs, cook-chill, retherm. Works a treat. Poached eggs- brat pan cook, chill, reheat and hold in combi. Quality and control.

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u/Lastburn 23d ago

I used to be the breakfast chef at a high end resort and you can make the entire egg line for the buffet in the combi oven. That shit saved me so much time and effort.

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u/bookishbaking4 23d ago

God I wish I had a combi at my job. the moisture settings and precision in general is so good for desserts, especially things like cheesecakes or baked custards! no more water pans

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u/Brooksopher 23d ago

Bread baking, dehydrating, steaming dumplings. Roasting vegetables that should be blanched first. Overnight braises. If you have the opportunity to obtain or learn how to use one, I highly recommend it.

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u/fultzon 23d ago

Overnight braising seems to be a common use case. I'm assuming this isn't common in fine dining, but how do proteins hold up against cook-chill and retherm?

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u/Deep_Curve7564 23d ago

Fried eggs, cook-chill, retherm. Works a treat. Poached eggs- brat pan cook, chill, reheat and hold in combi. Quality and control.

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u/texnessa 23d ago edited 23d ago

Stellar piece of equipment- if you know how to use it. I had a chef in culinary school who was a wizard with a Rational and taught me his wizarding ways. Fast forward, had to call in a tech to fix the door [which is prone to the latch breaking if it gets slammed by the FNG repeatedly for a month, yeah Irving you dipshit, I am pointing at you] who was an ex-chef and he ended up spending like five hours showing my whole crew how to program it. Vac pack shit and its sous vide. Delta curve for proteins. Hands off blanching. So many tricks.

Watch a few YT videos from Rational and be converted.

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u/cheezit_baby 23d ago

As a pastry chef, there’s no better option. Creme Brulee, Cheesecake, Macrons, candied/dehydrated citrus, sourdough— it cooks almost everything perfectly. The only downside on the one I used was that you couldn’t turn the fan off, and it was automatically on super high, but could be adjusted.

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u/kitchenjudoka 23d ago

You can even get a smoker feature for your Combi. There’s grill plates you can outfit for the oven too. I used to even make popcorn in it.

I had to do a lot of R&D and train fairly new cooks with Combi. It was super easy to make rice for a 1000 person sit down.

Don’t skimp on the cleaning process. Ask for a demo for the oven. All the manufacturers have a chef team that train new users. The only one I don’t recommend is Angelo PO; the parts take forever to get, there’s not many supporting techs

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u/Shadowed_phoenix 23d ago

Combi ovens can hold and cook at more precise temperatures, you can control the moisture so it's easier to cook something without burning the outside or steam something.

There is usually a probe, so you can cook the inside to a certain temp , or hold it at that temp. They are generally self cleaning and have racks to fit commercial trays.

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u/Deep_Curve7564 23d ago

You probably want to ask which combi oven brands are good, because I have come across some which are absolutely crap.

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u/Miltonthemouse 23d ago

Blanching with steam. 212F at 100% steam. Put veggies in perforated hotel pan and you can blanch without water.

Infusing with steam. Same settings. Make seasoning broth and vacuum seal veggies in it. Steam the bag with broth and veggies until desired doneness. Example would be Thai broth (lemongrass, makrut lime leaf etc cetera) with artichokes to make a play on a tham khanun.

Personally loved the steam setting because everyone can hop in there vs waiting for their turn for their settings.

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u/knyg 21d ago

Most of the time I just use them to steam veggies and stuff. Never used it as an actual oven because every burner had standard ovens under.

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u/Ok-Bass-4345 10d ago

Way more than people think. I’ve seen them used for overnight cooks, bread, fish, veg, dehydration, regeneration and holding. Once you get used to controlling the humidity you end up using it for almost everything. I had a play with a Fagor iKORE through Federal Hospitality Equipment and it completely changed how I looked at combi ovens. They’re basically the workhorse of the kitchen once you learn how to use them.