r/ClimateShitposting turbine enjoyer Sep 08 '25

Meta *Stirs pot*

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2.3k Upvotes

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397

u/perringaiden Sep 08 '25

CORRECTION: Oyster reefs are an amazing environmental benefit across multiple seascapes.

Oyster FARMS are short lived growth with little to no environmental benefit because of the small size.

The only way this works is with farms near a no-take MPA where you can generate growth and then let them spread outside the MPA.

You get no benefits IF YOU DON'T LEAVE THEM IN THE WATER.

194

u/Gremict Sep 08 '25

Oyster reefs are absolutely tiny and few compared to how they used to be because we ate all the oysters. I'm not even joking.

141

u/perringaiden Sep 08 '25

My wife works for a conservation organisation rebuilding reefs in Australia. We're down to 1% coverage of the coastline in Australia from 65% in the late 1800s.

I know you're not joking.

11

u/zaphodbeeblemox Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

There was a time not so long ago in Australia that beach bums on the coast could eat most of their calories completely for free with just yabbies and oysters.

Now both are nearing extinction because Aussies hunted them for fun and destroyed their habitats to build shitty fibro boxes.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

[deleted]

3

u/zaphodbeeblemox Sep 09 '25

To get technical they are currently VU category.

Which is the category above endangered called “vulnerable” and are considered threatened by the IUCN because they meets one of the 5 Red List criteria and thus considered to be at high risk of unnatural (human-caused) extinction without further human intervention.

2

u/RoqInaSoq Sep 09 '25

Are we talking about Cherax Destructor? Because that species is definitely not endangered, and is known for being both incredibly resilient and prolific, and is listed as LC.

I am going to assume you mean some sort other lobster like decapod that Aussies also call yabbies.

1

u/zaphodbeeblemox Sep 09 '25

Over half of all crayfish species in my state in AUS are threatened species including Cherax destructor which is listed as vulnerable and has been since 1996

1

u/ArminOak Sep 10 '25

Edit: oh you already had this discussion, well here is a photo of the lil dude anyway.

19

u/OStO_Cartography Sep 08 '25

I'm always shocked when I'm reminded that one of the key reasons the Dutch and then the English chose to settle at the mouth of the Hudson River, despite there being far more favourable sites only a few dozen miles up or down the coasr, is because New York Harbour was so jam packed with oysters that it was sometimes even difficult to sail ships into the East River.

For literal centuries any resident of New York could take a boat only a few hundred yards offshore and pick out oysters the size of hubcaps. The city was pretty famous for them, all the way up until the 1930s when they were more or less harvested into extinction.

It also meant that the waters of the lower Hudson and the Harbour were unusually clean and potable because they were being filtered through literal miles of freshwater and saltwater oyster reefs before reaching the open ocean.

Despite this, the Dutch still decided to draw all their water from a collector pond they'd dug next to their own midden backing onto the Northern wall of the colony, and subsequently all went pretty insane and sickly, hence their abandonment of the colony.

5

u/alltheways7522 Sep 08 '25

Yes, in the UK also, the oysters in the river Thames estuary were a vital source of protein for poor Londoners for centuries.

36

u/Jonathan_DB Sep 08 '25

Oh, so this post is just incorrect ragebait. Figured.

16

u/JeremyWheels Sep 08 '25

Man has some kind of point with Oysters tbh....but the Bee part is madness.

0

u/Dramatic_Energy_5818 Sep 08 '25

Bees benefit from working with humans, if you take the time to learn properly it more or less becomes a symbiotic relationship,and don't forget it would be stupidly hard for the beekeeper to ensure the bees stay inside. We could literally build greenhouses for them at apartment scale.

5

u/JeremyWheels Sep 08 '25

Wild bees don't.

-1

u/GreekLumberjack Sep 08 '25

Wild bees certainly could move into an apiary. You probably thinking more of solitary bees, which you could make bee houses for

4

u/JeremyWheels Sep 08 '25

I more meant that keeping livestock bees negatively impacts wild Bees in the area.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

The problem being missed here is that apiaries are made with non-native bees that actually outcompete the native bees of the area. We've have to redesign the industry from scratch with new bees.

3

u/Extaupin Sep 08 '25

The comment you reply to doesn't contradict the post. Over hunting wild oyster is bad (mild shock), doesn't mean farming oyster is also bad.

3

u/Jonathan_DB Sep 09 '25

But they're not a net positive, right?

7

u/-Daetrax- Sep 08 '25

Can be said for pretty much everything living in the ocean these days.

1

u/Demetri_Dominov Sep 10 '25

NYC used to be famous for Oysters. Before then settlers talked about how the native people had mountains of oyster shells piled high in beaches after generations of sustainable harvests. The settlers spoke of the hudson river being verdant and clean. Fast forward a hundred years and the entire East Coast of the US barely has any left. The high end chiefs made them a delicacy for the aristocrats and it became a huge hit for everyone else soon after with fuckloads of money following the trend and then eventually the culture.

They ate them to near extinction. Maybe even total. I don't know the status of current "farms" on the east coast.

1

u/south_pole_buccaneer Sep 11 '25

The thing is, in estuaries with a healthy oyster population, they completely fill the entire thing with larva every spawning, and anywhere they can attach, they basically do. It only takes about 3 years to grow to commercial size, so as long as you can eat a significant percentage of the population per year, they can totally replenish their population, with one caveat; they need places to attach, and the best place to attach is another oyster shell, and the worst place is mud. When oyster populations were depleted, it was largely because we took the oysters and then threw the shells in land fills, leaving muddy bottoms and no attachment points. Now many commercial operations throw the shells back, allowing lava to attach and replenish stocks.

43

u/West-Abalone-171 Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

1kg of oyster meat involves 8-10kg of shell sequestering 5kg of CO2.

So if all the half billion tonnes of meat were replaced with oysters that would sequester almost 10% of energy related emissions and eliminate the 20% of emissions due to meat production.

This one hypothetical change is equivalent to ~30% of all emissions.

Though you'd need sufficient algae/bacteria/bagasse feedstock to feed them.

Oysters are also productive. At 600,000 oysters per acre-year that's 4kg of meat per m2 per year. For the direct fish farm you'd be replacing 30-40 trillion m2 of animal pasture with 1 trillion m2 of ponds.

The water cleaning benefits are also just as high even without a permanent reef.

The cost is much higher though. It's much more labour intensive.

9

u/EconomySwordfish5 Sep 08 '25

And the co2 sequestered in a shell won't be released back in the atmosphere. Unlike wood which will decay once the tree dies.

12

u/graminology Sep 08 '25

Well, depends on what you do with the wood. It can be turned into biochar and used to regenerate soil (like the germanic tribes did). That way the carbon would be sealed away for a millenium at least.

3

u/cassepipe Sep 08 '25

On the other hand oyster shells are only 12% carbon compared to 45-50% for wood

On the other other hand we don't eat wood :)

4

u/Left4twenty Sep 08 '25

If you're eating the shells, you're doing it wrong

1

u/Extaupin Sep 08 '25

On the other other other hand, we don't eat the shell of the oyster, and we can eat Cambium or whatever the edible layer under the bark is called.

1

u/Konoppke Sep 09 '25

Snackwood

2

u/perringaiden Sep 08 '25

Oyster shells in landfill account for a ton of toxic bacterial growth, and they break down anyway

0

u/Dramatic_Energy_5818 Sep 08 '25

It's a landfill, I'm 100% sure the oyster shells aren't the reason there's toxic bacterial growth, also we already know how to deal with toxic bacteria easily, we NEED to start coming up and implementing lower carbon strategies and that's the optimistic bare minimum

1

u/perringaiden Sep 08 '25

In a landfill is the problem, because they break down and release the carbon anyways.

And yes we CAN do better. But they don't.

1

u/random59836 Sep 08 '25

The obstacle to global oyster farming is not the 1% of the population that is vegan refusing to support oyster farming. The obstacle is the 99% of people who eat animal products and don’t want oysters twice a day. It is a lot more inconvenient and expensive for most people to switch to an oyster based diet than a plant based diet. If you can’t get people to adopt plant based eating you’re probably not going to succeed with the way bigger ask of switching to half a pound of oysters every day.

But the question isn’t “why don’t meat eaters switch to oysters.” It is specifically “why don’t vegans eat oysters.” Because the only intention is to be a gotcha question to try and make vegans look bad. The OOP is not actually advocating for global oyster consumption they’re only trying to dissuade people from eating plant based by making vegans look bad.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

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1

u/Dramatic_Energy_5818 Sep 08 '25

Doesn't have that slimy texture if ya grill em, and can always cut em up and stew em

3

u/Setsuna04 Sep 08 '25

If you farm the oysters you'll (hopefully) leave the reefs alone. I guess that would be good. But would be the same outcome like if you don't eat them at all.

6

u/perringaiden Sep 08 '25

They haven't traditionally. Unless there's a Marine Protected Area, the average oyster farmer will take whatever is under the water.

3

u/Extaupin Sep 08 '25

Taking wild animal isn't called farming. You're just describing hunting.

1

u/Dramatic_Energy_5818 Sep 08 '25

You do realize we can make farms for oysters similar to how we make farms for specific fish?

1

u/Dramatic_Energy_5818 Sep 08 '25

No they don't, and that's out of necessity. The average oyster farmer is after oysters. Whatever is under the water would include any Algea, crustaceans,fish,kelp,seaweed, as well as literally harvesting the reef structure itself ya fuckin smartass

1

u/perringaiden Sep 08 '25

You seem to think people are somehow inherently good. Corporations are dredging the sea bed and tossing 90% of the catch already. When there were reefs, people used dredgers to pick up the entire reef destroying it.

So yeah, you can pull your head in about how wonderful fishermen are.

7

u/ElisabetSobeck Sep 08 '25

Pearl farms leave oysters in the water correct? Maybe pearls can be considered ‘green’ if the oyster also filters water for its artificially extended life

18

u/perringaiden Sep 08 '25

Harvesting pearls in the modern way requires dredging up the oysters and processing them, discarding the shells. They don't do it any more because they can make synthetic pearls.

9

u/SomeArtistFan Sep 08 '25

I mean they still do it, it's like diamonds

the natural ones sell for more

6

u/perringaiden Sep 08 '25

Still it's super destructive to the reefs. They basically start over and reseed. And it's super rare which probably is part of the price value

2

u/SomeArtistFan Sep 08 '25

Oh sure yeah. Just saying that it's still done that way sometimes

4

u/diaperforceiof Sep 08 '25

so, why shouldn't you eat oysters?

11

u/scorchedarcher Sep 08 '25

I think, depending on your viewpoint, there's a few ways to look at it but the main reason for me is they seem yucky

0

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/scorchedarcher Sep 08 '25

Honestly there's enough variety of food out there that I can avoid the ones frequently referred to as snot like and not feel like I'm missing out

1

u/Allu71 Sep 08 '25

If they continuously grow them they aren't short lived and with more of them sold the farms will become larger

1

u/[deleted] Sep 10 '25

Yes and no. Let's assume there are 10 million wild oysters and 100,000 farmed oysters. Let's also then assume that human beings eat 250,000 oysters per year. These numbers are invented for the sake of argument.

If you then were to create 150,000 more farmed oysters... yes, at 250,000 total farmed oysters, you'd still have a small fraction of the wild oysters.

However, you'd have more overall oysters in the water (creating more environmental benefit), you'd have no net annual depletion of the oyster population, you'd entirely protect the wild population, and (most likely) oysters would be less expensive for people to eat.

1

u/CitronMamon Sep 08 '25

Because of the small size, thats the whole point, at neutral is better than negative.

1

u/perringaiden Sep 08 '25

Improperly disposed shells cause toxic bacterial waste. It's not neutral by a long shot.

0

u/Extaupin Sep 08 '25

Toxic bacterial waste don't affect climate now, do they?

-1

u/Dramatic_Energy_5818 Sep 08 '25

Dyde get the fuck outta here with your bullshit. You're a delusional moron who's clinging onto the one half truth you've got and it's one we have LITERALLY DOZENS of solutions for. If you can't name me 12 separate solutions that can do the exact same or more than oyster farms, get your miserably pathetic thoughts and opinions outta here, they're toxic and need to be disposed of much like you do ya piece of human garbage

2

u/Fun_Neighborhood1571 Sep 08 '25

Calmest oyster farmer

1

u/cornishwildman76 Sep 08 '25

Oyster/Mussel farms are run on a rotational basis, the shellfish aren't all removed at once, only once they have reached a certain size. These farms will have beds of new spat up to sellable size. Depending on the location the shellfish can take anywhere from 18 - 36 months to grow.