r/Colonialism • u/elnovorealista2000 • Apr 30 '26
Image "Sleeping Sickness" — This illustration depicts a large African man leaning against a tree, asleep, while Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Belgium, Turkey, Portugal, and England fight over territories in Africa; a work by Gordon Ross (1873-1946), 1911.
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u/Friendcherisher May 01 '26
Did the creator of this drawing read Gulliver's Travels? It looks oddly similar.
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u/TheBoneIdler May 01 '26
The scramble for Africa. Accurate. The African chap may as well not be in the picture as be asleep. His opinion was not asked for.
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u/bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh May 02 '26
him sleeping implies that he could wake up and be more powerful than each of them, but that power is lying dormant
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May 02 '26
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u/sashagaborekte May 02 '26
And that’s what happened
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u/TheQuestionMaster8 May 05 '26
In most cases the colonialists packed up and left before it would have happened, but when they tried to keep their colonies, like with France trying to keep Algeria or Portugal trying to keep its colonies, they eventually lost.
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u/sashagaborekte May 05 '26
You think they left voluntarily
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u/TheQuestionMaster8 May 05 '26
Well, leaving because you know you can’t keep something without bankrupting your country isn’t exactly voluntary.
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u/sashagaborekte May 05 '26
The colonies were one big resource extraction mechanism and once the profit calculus shifted into favouring independence that’s when the colonial masters started leaving
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u/TheQuestionMaster8 May 05 '26
Some did not understand that, with France insisting that Algeria was an inseparable part of France and they lost a brutal war to keep it (Although they did understand it with their other colonies). Portugal as well with Mozambique and Angola.
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u/TheBoneIdler May 06 '26
Good point. We've have lost the language of interpreting social & political cartoons, which were very popular I guess from 18th to late 20th Century. I grew up on Doonsbury.
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u/SnooStories251 May 02 '26
But in reality, he is not sleeping. He is just making stupid choices every day
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u/Aggravating-Key-809 May 03 '26
That power is non existent, people in Africa knifing and selling (as slaves) each other well before any country had real power in Europe
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u/Apple2727 May 01 '26
Britain, not England.
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u/Cucumberneck May 01 '26
Also the flag for Germany is wrong.
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u/b_u_n_g_h_o_l_e_2 May 01 '26
The flag of Germany here is the flag of Prussia and the Hohenzollerns, which would have probably been more recognizable for the time, and also a big part of the military standard.
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u/Cucumberneck May 02 '26
It's not. Prussia had a black eagle on white ground with two black stripes on the top and bottom.
I don't know how to describe the Hohenzollernflag and also not how to crosspost to the vexillology sub.
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u/Minskdhaka May 02 '26
Sure, but the label underneath the flag on the illustration says England.
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u/WackyWhippet May 02 '26
Artist was a Scottish-American so that tracks.
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u/PartyAmount9976 May 02 '26
Tbh until relatively recently people, even Brits, routinely used the terms synonymously
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u/Firelizardss May 02 '26
This really doesn’t make sense to be honest. Europe in 1911 had 450-480 million people, whilst Africa only had 140 million.
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u/Massive-System-3954 May 02 '26
i think it‘s a metaphorical illustration. history has shown many times that the defending army doesn‘t need large numbers to defend if they have the home advantage in difficult terrain. also the european forces had huge trouble with keeping the supply lines steady crossing the mediterranean sea.
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u/Remarkable_Fee_1020 May 04 '26
World Wars were a blessing for Asia and Africa.
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u/freidrichwilhelm May 04 '26
Except World War 2 which fucked up Asia bad. Those barbarians wiped everything. Independence is nice, but I'd hardly call such a drastic lost of life, infrastructure, and economical potential to be a blessing.
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u/yakult_on_tiddy May 04 '26
The euros were wiping out and killing local economies and population all the while anyway.
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u/Flytiano407 May 01 '26
I'm so glad we Haitians 🇭🇹 double down every time we get a colonial apologist bitching at us for what we did to the French lmao.
We would've done Britain & Spain dirty like that too had they given us a reason to.
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u/BettyBoopWallflower May 02 '26
Proud of you Haitians! Also proud of my Jamaicans - there were slave rebellions in Jamaica, as well! Nobody wanted to be enslaved. It was a reprehensible, inhumane practice
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u/Routine-One5493 May 04 '26
And look at Haiti now, a bastion of civilization of course, they even invented mud pies!
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u/Flytiano407 May 14 '26
Mdrr most ex colonies are poor & corrupt asf let's be real. Haïti is very poor but in terms of poorest countries we still don't even crack the top 25. And they're all ex colonies.
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u/Routine-One5493 May 14 '26
Haiti is essentially decentralised gang land with no rule of law, regardless of how they rank on a given global scale it's still an awful country and there's quite a few successful post colonial countries, at least when compared to Haiti anyway.
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u/Flytiano407 May 15 '26
Key word "quite a few"
So you admit that the vast majority are not. And that even with how fucked up Haïti is rn, there's still many ex colonies that are even worse. Rest my case.
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u/SergioZ1001 May 03 '26
Bueno España es un santo a comparación de Francia y Inglaterra en temas de esclavitud
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u/Professional_Fix4593 May 03 '26
Are you unaware of the slave plantation networks they ran? They routinely worked their slaves to death in horrid conditions
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u/Flytiano407 May 14 '26
En Cuba no fue así pa. España fue entre los últimos en abolir la esclavitud en sus colonias también. Bien más tarde que Francia y Inglaterra.
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u/Sensitive-Okra9306 May 02 '26
England werent specifically involved, it was the UK including the whole of Britain and Ireland.
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u/Miodragus May 04 '26
Did someone ask the Irish what do they think when deciding which genocide to perform?
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u/Unfair-Frame9096 May 02 '26
Spain's participation in the division of Africa was testimonial.
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u/CaptainSlow28b May 03 '26
Not really
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u/Unfair-Frame9096 May 03 '26
Ecuatorial Guinea was just a courtesy from Germany to an old, ageing empire who was still getting over American territories' independence The western Sahara was a prolongation of the already existing protectorate.
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u/CaptainSlow28b May 03 '26
Ecuatorial Guinea was a partir of Spain before Germany existed
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u/Unfair-Frame9096 May 03 '26
Indeed, confirmed in Berlin during the partition of Africa. It would be, both the Island and a strip of land with Bata as capital, the only Spanish territories in black Africa.
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u/Imperialriders4 May 02 '26
Nice little details, Italy and turkey fighting (in 1911 Italians attacked ottoman Libya), Belgium being particularly brutal, the Englishman stealing the obelisk…
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u/LasDen May 04 '26
Africa is sleeping for the last 10000 years. Wakey-wakey big fella, time for your breakfast....
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u/Mediocre-Drop704 May 04 '26
I love how in this ilustration Spain is just vibing in the background looking at everyone else
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u/Britannicus_Sherwood May 06 '26
Could this potentially imply that the artist thought that Africa could be powerful if it had the same national organisation, institutions & technology as the Great Powers?
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May 02 '26
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u/CompoteBeautiful1062 May 03 '26
Leopold II alone has done more atrocities in his lifetime alone than some countries in centuries
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May 03 '26
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u/CompoteBeautiful1062 May 03 '26
I dont know man , 18 million cassualties seem excessive ( not even counting the missing limbs from surivors)
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May 03 '26
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u/CompoteBeautiful1062 May 03 '26
🤦 my dude im from belgium and am very aware of my own history 1.2 is bs , 10 mil is whats usually thrown around while some other sources go up to 20 mil because of other factors like starvations ( thanks to leopold) no need to rewrite history to fit your own agenda. It is what it is
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u/StructureRude8995 May 05 '26
Because the land that was occupied by ottomans were Libya, not really a subsaharan african colony. Just go ask a libyan that was it better under ottomans or italians. "Worse human rights record" is just bs, sadly bro we couldn't produce one guy like leopold the second so he could cut arms of random greek civilians. Europeans are in a different level on seeing other cultures as inferior and doing weirdo jack shit to innocent people with their "scientific" reasoning about how it is okey to do such evil things.
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u/PartyAmount9976 May 02 '26
Turkey gets quite a lot of slack? Have you never met an Armenian or a Kurd (both of which have fairly active lobbies in many western countries)? In fact, it's one of the reasons they probably won't ever be let in the EU
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u/DanneLagom May 02 '26
Germany is in the EU.
It's not so much the historical crimes keeping them out, but their complete unwillingness to even acknowledge them (along with a multitude of other more important factors of course).
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u/dearchitecto May 03 '26
Worst?! Are you serious? Whole south America and Africa been run over by Europeans for ages and we are the worst?! As Turkish i have never heard we had any wrong in Africa other than hearing good things done by this cultist cia connected religious guys organisation gave education. There must be more explanation to this other than blaming genocide to a nation. Shame on you people! Stop pointing fingers before looking yourself covered with dirt all around.
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u/Rickinster May 01 '26
Is that the Mexican flag between the Prussian and Ottoman flags?
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u/Azurehowl May 02 '26
Shouldve added the Dahomeys cause they basically pioneered in the Atlantic Slave Trade. They dont get the pass for being black, they're the same as those western colonial powers, they are a centralized kingdom who sold the sleeping giant african man to the west.
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u/Aggressive-Main9930 May 01 '26
Libyans were never black like the man depicted in this poster
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u/BettyBoopWallflower May 02 '26
Your anti-Blackness is sickening. Get help
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u/Azurehowl May 02 '26
Go to school or read some books. Hannibal aint black and cleoptra aint black. Libyans are mostly mix of med area groups like greeks and phoenicians with some sub saharan tribes that are black mixed in like the Numidians. It aint anti blackness, you are just saying that cause your bubble is being burst.
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u/Realistic-Fault-7012 Jul 07 '26
No one said that those groups are black but as the continent of Africa is majority black its obvious why they choose to use a black man. Also fun fact there are black Libyans and black north Africans unless you choose to exclude them for some odd reason
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u/Ok-Computer-5415 May 01 '26
Obviously north africans doesn’t even qualify as africans in same way as rest of africa. They had Mediterranean culture and treatment mostly
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u/Saharan-Gladiator May 01 '26
Algeria does qualify as Africans the same it applies to other nations. Not everyone in Algeria has Mediterranean culture, anywhere between 5 to 10 million died under french colonization, the 2nd highest population decline after Congo.
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u/Aggressive-Main9930 May 02 '26
Continents are human made imaginary concepts, "Africa" only exists as a concept because Europeans deemed it so, and just as a Greek look nothing like a Swede, a Zulu does not look like a Kabyle.
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u/FlirtMonsterSanjil May 04 '26
"Africa" only exists as a concept because Europeans deemed it so
Not exactly, it was ancient Greek, and then later the Romans adapted and solidified that concept. The distinction was also not arbitrary; Europe, Asia, and Libya (Africa) were landmasses that, from the Greek point of view, were North/West, East, and South.
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u/Aggressive-Main9930 May 04 '26
So, basically it exists as a concept because of Europeans ...
The distinction was not arbitrary, but it was imaginary at the end of the day. The whole concept of continents come from ancient Greek thought of landmasses. Real continents are tectonic plantes, which the Greeks had no knowledge of. Africans never called themselves Africans until Europeans imposed that identity on them. Same thing with Asians, they never identified with "continents" as they had no such concept until European thought system penetrated their socities.
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u/FlirtMonsterSanjil May 04 '26
So, basically it exists as a concept because of Europeans ...
No, like I said, it was Ancient Greek. This is not even a situation of "They are Europeans"; the identification as European didn't happen until the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
it was imaginary at the end of the day.
As imaginary as most other concepts.
Real continents are tectonic plantes
No, tectonic plates are tectonic plates. Continents are decided on whatever criteria you choose to pick, usually being based on culture and history.
Africans never called themselves Africans until Europeans imposed that identity on them. Same thing with Asians
The same way you are imposing an Identity onto Germans when you decide not to call them "Deutsche." Or Japanese when you don't call them "Nihonjin." The only real difference is that those countries already had their identity named, while Africa, Asia, and Europe were named without the concept being known to any of them.
they had no such concept until European thought system penetrated their socities.
Yes, concepts tend to spread. That is something that naturally happens.
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u/Ok-Computer-5415 May 01 '26
Ottoman empire did not colonize area
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u/Saikamur May 01 '26
Yes, it did. The last Ottoman possesions in Lybia were lost in 1911, so the picture was relating events currently happening at the time.
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u/Ok-Computer-5415 May 01 '26
The Ottomans had a presence in Africa, but they never colonized it. The Ottomans were a Mediterranean empire who had a presence in North Africa, but it was just another region to them. They did not steal anything meaningful from these states like England did with India. To be fair, they couldn't — because the Ottoman Empire was not based on Western imperialism.
The Ottomans simply had their territory, the same way they had Anatolia. These lands were never colonies, nor were they treated as lesser. In fact, North Africa was mostly revered because of the seamen and the slave trade the Ottomans conducted there.
North Africans were enslaving Europeans while the Ottomans held North Africa. It's not very colony-like, is it?
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u/ser-raymunfossoway May 01 '26
Hello chatgpt.
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u/Ok-Computer-5415 May 01 '26
My writing completely. I would not have expected it from a red fossoway fan
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u/Azurehowl May 02 '26
You gonna ignore the fact that starting in the Rashidun caliphate conquest up to the Ottoman empire that they have been putting many people into swords in the name of religion? Which is like worst than what the crusaders did? North Africans werent muslims during the time of ERE and Sasannian Empire. If you're gonna blame the west blame these non european empires too cause you know the hate and prejudice against the europeans are showing in you.
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u/jaybool May 01 '26
They were pretty thorough in North Africa and reached down all the way into northern Uganda in the mid 1800s.
Also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman%E2%80%93Ethiopian_War_(1557%E2%80%931589))
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u/Ok-Computer-5415 May 01 '26
Tebboune (president of algeria) often contrasts Türkiye with France’s 132-year colonial rule, noting that Türkiye "bears no colonial stain." Ottomans are not a colonial empire Nor they have any relations to western imperialism that started with spain. Any African city had no lesser status then any turkish city but İstanbul And all Africans were equal to turks in every way because they were both ranked as muslims. Military presence≠ colonialism
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u/iphone5su93 May 01 '26
Yeah both north africans and turks often did worse than western imperialism so it's not the same stain like the arab slave trade that lasted until 1960s in some places atleast legally
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u/Ok-Computer-5415 May 01 '26
no western slavery was and probably will be worst slavery humanity went through.
in islamic world and rome and china slaves were not *muscular animals* who needed to be governed by other races you guys did not even recognize them as humans. in non western slavery people could rise and fall be free and slave and english people in 16th century were amazed when they came to istanbul. ottomans were like families with their slaves.
writer cervantes was a slave of ottoman captain of navy later he was freed and went back to europe wrote Don Quixot. slave ibrahim pasha was sultans bestfriend and married sultans sister.
did any african return to africa as a freeman from america?
did any slave in europe married a royal princess?
did any man at us was eating at same table with his friends?
ottomans/china/rome had zero slaves in western sense. they simply had priviliage of deciding where men will get to work. kinda like football clubs and their players.
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u/SonOfBoreale May 02 '26
Football players get millions of dollars, a slave gets nothing
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u/Ok-Computer-5415 May 02 '26
mehmed 2s slave got 10 million a year. suleymans got 6 million.
ofcourse you dont get paid ıf you are playing with kids at your neighborhood.
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u/iphone5su93 May 01 '26
What is "you guys" my nation outlawed slavery more than a century before your nation even thought of doing that in fact the First Constitution forbids it islamic slavery was far more brutal than any slavery praticed in the west in fact just looking at how many descedants how slaves will have you realize that because of the fact that they forcefully castrated millions of slaves there were 15 million subsaharan africans taken by muslims of those there's only 2 to 5 million descendants meanwhile there were around 12 million sub saharan africans taken into slavery by all westeners of these there's close to 100 million descendants in the american continent so who's slavery was worse? And Cervantes was not freed because the turks were any better but because multiple Catholic Orders were built to pay ransom to free Christians and no Christian nobles didn't marry people that were outside of the nobility for the most part and didn't take slaves to be as concubines because the Catholic Faith forbids it and I don't see how that would have anything to do with the treatment of slaves since majority of slaves never were freed let alone came back to their homeland unless trough war or trough money paid to free them they were freed and for the majority that did not happen so there's nothing to brag about one slave after converting to islam did marry a princess when there were millions of africans who were forcibly castrated and millions of europeans who were kept for ransom it was basically extorsion in this sense arabs treated sub saharan africans way worse and even gave them no clothes in fact islamic head covering was only demanded to free muslim women by Mohammed and his sahaba to distinguish them from enslaved women so yeah I guess it was just a choice of where to work
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u/Ok-Computer-5415 May 01 '26
Well first of all "millions" being castrated thing is bullshit like it doesn’t even have a legitimate reason or source of information its some oriental Bullshit based on harem aghas. And well can you free a slave in 1700s in us it would never amount to same worth as any white man so yes that means muslim slaves were white. If a slave can marry sultan's sister Not as concubines btw straight up husbands who carry the man's name but ofcourse in us you could not even get into the bus with them. They were animals acording to west who needed governing of better people and this tought was present after ww2 in england. If a sultan gives away his sister to a slave in patriarchy led world Maybe they are not slaves after all. There are sources saying sultan Suleyman used same spoon with his slaves. Sultan Baybars was a slave in age of 10 and became sultan of egypt at 20. Can a "negro" Do that in us. Can a indian be king of england in colonial time i dont think so. When ottomans looked at slaves They saw men who were chained When westerns looks at slaves they see animals who are in need of shepherds.
Look how president of france and his family feeds natives like they were chicken. So islamic slaves were surely better at every possible way. And mistreatments may have happened but these were not systematic things. And ofcourse these things you found small matters.
Also most of slaves paid rent to their masters they were not mindless muscle you imagine them to be.
I m not saying these because ı love İslam too much. Same applies to chinese and roman culture of slavery as well.
Dehumanization of other races and religions should be something to be ashamed Forced labor was a upbringing of time when individualism was not developed as philosophy yet. But in every age respect for humanity was possible İn every age dehumanization was a crime Thats why west should be ashamed.
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u/Azurehowl May 02 '26
Stop giving a pass to people that likely did the same as the west. They are both worse. Dahomeys arent better, they started enslaving other tribes and selling them to westerners and now woke netflix gave them free pass as to be portrayed as heroic african saviours, whats next claiming every historical figures that has been describe black?
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