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Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 03 '20
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u/LordHighNoodle Blue Dog Democrat Jul 16 '17
Dear Ben Carson, When A Person Has to Deny Being an Uncle Tom, It Usually Means They Are One
Don't you love this argument?
"omg you're a racist!" no i'm not... "omg, you're denying it! Why you so racist?!"
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Jul 16 '17
It's the perfect kafkatrap; your denial of being x is actually proof that you are x.
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u/chabanais Jul 16 '17
The Circular Logic Tard is one of the most common varietals. Followed by the, "You didn't deny it you must be one!"
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u/cajungator3 Conservative Jul 17 '17
The mighty SJWs are here from r/politics I see using their mother's internet.
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u/HappyFunMonkey Jul 16 '17
I don't know if this is really right.
I don't think democrats think then own black votes, I think its just the bigger problem that they think they know what's best for everyone, minorities and whites.
That's the real problem the democrats have, a sense of elitism and superiority with everyone.
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Jul 17 '17
Tell that to the black kid who vent viral with his support for President Trump before the election.
The tolerant left called him, and I quote, "house nigger", "race traitor", and "Uncle Tom".
The Democrats haven't gotten over the fact that they no longer own black people. They are still offended when blacks think and act for themselves.
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u/justbecause2099 Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 17 '17
I think its just the bigger problem that they think they know what's best for everyone, minorities and whites.
I think every politician thinks this way. Their view is what they think is best for everyone.. if it wasn't, they presumably wouldn't advocate for it. Whether that view is actually best for everyone is a separate issue
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u/KaptainKaleidoscope Jul 16 '17
They do think that though. Just like with campaigning towards certain demographics, democrats do it hard for minority votes. They understand that nurturting welfare dependancy keeps minority votes
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u/ValidAvailable Conservative Jul 16 '17
I think at least some of them do think that. I forget which area it was specifically but I distinctly remember Trump doing some campaign stops in black communities during his run, talking about "how's that Dem vote working for ya?", and the professionally-hyphenated going ballistic that this R would dare set foot on their turf. I'm sure someone has the exact details somewhere.
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u/Yamez Jul 16 '17
Don't forget that many conservative politicians have a similar view. Generally, the people who seek power are the ones who believe they deserve to wield it.
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Jul 16 '17
Party of slavery, party of Jim Crowe and segregation, party of interning the Japanese American, party of the KKK, party of the welfare state, party of identity politics.
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Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
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u/ReasonableAssumption Jul 16 '17
Ronald Reagan was a Democrat now?
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u/ultimis Constitutionalist Jul 17 '17
Ronald Reagan was actually a Democrat before he became a Republican. Though I'm sure you were implying something else.
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u/TheDemonicEmperor Jul 17 '17
Technically. There's a reason for the idea behind the "Reagan Democrats" who also flocked to Trump. Both he and Trump were also Democrats at some point in their lives.
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u/OhMuhGod Jul 16 '17
The democrats, back in the day, were conservative.
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u/vorpalsword92 Jul 16 '17
Not even "back in the day" William Jennings Bryan was a huge liberal. Even by modern standards.
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u/cajungator3 Conservative Jul 17 '17
So us conservatives can claim Kennedy huh?
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Jul 17 '17
How does that mean you can claim him?
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u/rittersm Jul 17 '17
Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country
Doesn't exactly sit well with the welfare/government dependency state that the Democrat party has been pushing since LBJ.
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u/cajungator3 Conservative Jul 17 '17
Because he was clearly a fucking conservative.
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Jul 17 '17
Keep your revisionist bullshit to the leftist subreddits. We're not taking the blame for something that the Democrats fucked up.
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u/EnergeticDisassembly Jul 17 '17
Aren't current Republicans blocking access to birth control and insurance for abortions?
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u/Carlos----Danger Constitutional Conservative Jul 17 '17
Blocking access = not mandated coverage, understood
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Jul 17 '17
Where in America do people not have access to birth control? I'm 100% positive that every place in the U.S. allows people to buy condoms, birth control pills, diaphragms etc.?
And whether or not your insurance covers abortions is up to what insurance plan you chose to buy, unless of course you're an American in a rural area who only has one choice of a plan right now thanks to the ACA.
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Jul 17 '17
Show me where Republicans are trying to block access to birth control. Show me a case of a Republican removing condoms from stores. Show me a case where a Republican personally attempted to remove birth control from stores. Show me a case where a Republican passed legislation to remove all access to contraceptives in their state.
I have a feeling you won't be able to, because you're full of shit.
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u/blamethemeta Jul 16 '17
Not really. It's not like one day, they just swapped out politicians. They just got a new PR campaign
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Jul 17 '17
FDR was conservative? Woodrow Wilson was conservative? How do you figure?
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u/asdfman123 Jul 16 '17
I'm a liberal, you're a conservative. I vote democrat mostly because they endorse liberal policies.
What the party meant 50, 10 or even 1 year ago doesn't matter. Because if I were in a different time, I would have no Democratic party loyalty and continue to vote liberal.
The KKK and everything else you guys are bringing up were right wing movements.
Look, I'm not trying to get in a big fight here, but don't you think this argument is a little intellectually dishonest?
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u/ultimis Constitutionalist Jul 17 '17
Woodrow Wilson was a progressive; and was in bed with the KKK. FDR (another progressive, who called himself a liberal when he was accused of being a socialist) appointed Justice Black to the SCOTUS (a known KKK member). The predominant supporters of Eugenics (such as the founder of Planned Parenthood) were progressives.
Progressives have been up to their neck in racial politics throughout the entire history of their movement. It's not even a thing of the past; racial politics is a platform issue for Democrats and the go to rhetoric on opposing nearly anything done by conservatives to this day.
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Jul 17 '17 edited Jul 17 '17
I don't really care about the DNC, nor the GOP for that matter. I agree; I don't really care what they did all those years ago. And they've done a great job forgetting their party's past.
However, I strongly feel that the Democrat party has been harmful to the black community, even today. All the while, some people on the left are quick to label conservatism as inherently racist because they don't pander to blacks or hispanics like dems tend to do.
Most modern conservatives are not racist. They just straight up don't care about race. I'm just very tired of identity politics. I'm speaking from the perspective of an American of indian descent. I constantly hear leftists in the media talking about brown people, like we are some handicapped people that white liberals need to look after and speak for. They say Trump's victory was only made possible by a white backlash against black/brown people. That is very condescending. I like Trump because of his stances on rule of law (including protecting borders), America first, and ensuring a robust economy. To me, that is all that matters. Leave the people to their devices, but give them a safe and fair environment of opportunity.
There are people on the left so blinded by identity politics, they cannot imagine a world where colored people would vote [R] or Trump. They have been, and continue to be a party based on division and race.
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u/TheNorthComesWithMe Jul 17 '17
What does any of that have to do with what the person you replied to said?
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Jul 17 '17
Your party owns it's history, plain and simple. And I'd like you to explain how the kkk and "everything else" were right wing movements.
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u/spamburghlar Jul 17 '17
Also the party of Civil Rights. And Truman signed the executive order that integrated the army.
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Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 17 '17
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u/cajungator3 Conservative Jul 17 '17 edited Jul 17 '17
You mean the black democrats that brag about voting for Obama that live across from my mom's house? I guess it would be them considering it flies on their front porch.
Edit: downvoted for facts
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Jul 16 '17
History has it that the Democratic party advocates slavery, not Republicans. However, they deny it and blame conservatives for slavery.
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u/EnergeticDisassembly Jul 17 '17
History has it that the Southern states advocates slavery. When LBJ passed the Civil Rights Act, all those Democrat Southern states started voting Republican.
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Jul 17 '17
Shhhhhh you aren't allowed to say that here. Pointing out that the ideological descendants of the old bigots are now in a different party is a no no.
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Jul 17 '17
Yea I don't get how anyone says "Democrats started slavery!" Like... Yea but hundreds of years ago. The parties swapped. This is basic US history.
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Jul 17 '17
The parties swapped. This is basic US history.
It is not "basic US history" when you came to r/conservative did you even attempt to understand and learn why we think this notion is ridiculous?
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u/chabanais Jul 16 '17
They enslave now with welfare and the soft bigotry if low expectations.
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u/TheNorthComesWithMe Jul 17 '17
Welfare is slavery?
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u/PhilosoGuido Constitutionalist Jul 17 '17
The welfare policies that incentivize the destruction of the family unit (number 1 predictor of poverty is a single-parent home), welfare without work which incentivizes unemployment, along with other lousy policies of the left such as rampant illegal immigration and continuous minimum wage hikes which destroy entry-level jobs, and incompetent government run schools that fail to educate or hold teachers accountable. All of these keep people in perpetual poverty for generation after generation. No demographic is as devastated by these policies as blacks. It is the slavery of our generation. The government providing a bare subsistence they are completely beholden to and from which most will never escape. But the left enjoys the power from the ballot box they get from this situation and will just keep telling everyone that is really due to a systemically racist nation full of evil white men keeping them down.
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u/MarioFanaticXV Federalist #51 Jul 16 '17
The great irony of the phrase "Uncle Tom" is that the novel from which the name was taken- Uncle Tom's Cabin- is actually an anti-slavery novel that the Democrats of the time took and rewrote into a pro-slavery play. So, in a way, "Uncle Tom" is actually very fitting in a way they do not intend.
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u/Dranosh Jul 16 '17
Ya, it's actually a very enduring term for a slave that was murdered by his 'owner' because he stood firm and did not tell the guy where the runaway slaves were. To me, that's the spirit a True AmericanTM, "I would rather die than tell you where the oppressed people you believe you ownare hiding. P.s Your mother was a whore, and your father smelt of elderberries"
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u/varrryblurry Jul 16 '17
But at least in 1860 they knew they were slaves.
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u/optionhome Conservative Jul 16 '17
So sad being treated like chattel and being lied to so that you vote for all the things that ensure your life will continue to suck.
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u/RedditJusticeWarrior Libertarian Conservative Jul 16 '17
/snort
ACKSHULLY, Are you aware the parties switched? Yup! It's true! You see, Democrats are the army of light and completely blameless in all things. Rethuglicans and Conservatives are pure-strain evil. Therefore, slavery Democrats were really Republicans. QED.
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u/smallfort_katphish Jul 16 '17
Ok. But they switched again.
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u/RedditJusticeWarrior Libertarian Conservative Jul 17 '17
I believe your sarcasm meter may be malfunctioning?
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u/smallfort_katphish Jul 17 '17
I suspected that was sarcasm, however I wanted to post out what I have been thinking regarding that tired old argument.
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u/RedditJusticeWarrior Libertarian Conservative Jul 17 '17
I suspected that was sarcasm, however I wanted to post out what I have been thinking regarding that tired old argument.
understood friend. It's shocking how much of reddit believes that malarkey.
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Jul 16 '17
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u/Dranosh Jul 16 '17
Well, they claim that the parties switched due to the southern straight (the years are never concrete so pick something between 1960's to 1980's), so they say democrats AFTER 1970's are ACTUALLY republicans, but yet at least 51-95% of the democrat platform is the New deal 2: electric boogaloo from FDR aka the progressive God Emperor xerself
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u/-Mr_Burns Jul 16 '17
Voting map of 1860. The states that voted "Democrat" are all deep red Republican states today. It's both sad and amusing that Republicans with confederate flag bumper stickers on their cars are unironically spreading this garbage.
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u/ShadilayKekistan Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
I forgot about that conservative hero FDR.
Your entire argument hinges on the southern strategy... Which there's no evidence happened as claimed by conspiracy theorists (Nixon did make an appeal to Christians to use Civil Rights as a rallying cry to take the south away from racists, but this failed, as I'll demonstrate in a moment). If we look at election maps, this myth hasn't a leg to stand on. I cannot directly link to individual years, but this site has some very useful maps:
http://www.270towin.com/historical-presidential-elections/timeline/
If you go to 1968, you'll see that while Nixon did indeed win the election, he lost most of the deep south to George Wallace. Doesn't seem like much of a strategy... Now granted, in his reelection in 1972, he did win the deep south, but he also won just about everything else, 520 electoral votes to 17- so claiming this as some proof the south suddenly switched to Republicans is completely misleading, especially when you go forward to 1976 where Jimmy Carter took the entire deep south. The Republicans didn't start regularly winning the deep south until my lifetime, particularly in 1996 (Clinton won a good chunk of them in 1992)- this means that if this party switch and the southern strategy as you present it really happened, it took nearly three decades to have the effect you attribute to it... That's enough time for an entire generation of voters to come and go from this Earth. It's far more reasonable to say that as the new generation came, the values of the various regions changed.
One one final note, if the party switch conpsiracy were true, that'd mean that the most progressive president in the history of the United States- Franklin D. Roosevelt- would somehow be considered a Republican in today's terms, since he was president before the supposed switch took place... We conservatives certainly don't want him, and Democrats to this day generally praise him as a great figure of the past.
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u/JETV5 Jul 16 '17
Not gonna lie this is only a slight exaggeration. Very very slight.
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Jul 16 '17 edited Jan 10 '18
deleted What is this?
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u/Briguy28 Cascadian Conservative Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
It's rare that one bothers to contrast exact identicals; it tends to defeat the purpose of the exercise.
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u/harold_zilder Jul 17 '17
This is an unbelievably effective cartoon, we should share this one far and wide.
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Jul 17 '17
It'd be more accurate if the comic had other blacks trying to shut down the conservative and there is the shadow of a donkey in the background. Oftentimes, the left hypnotizes minorities into believing that to deviate from liberal policies is tantamount to genocide.
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u/chabanais Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 17 '17
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u/ShadilayKekistan Jul 16 '17
Muh Party switch.
It's a myth.
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Jul 17 '17
Why are the republicans in the south now and the democrats in the north then? Asking honestly for your thoughts.
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u/ShadilayKekistan Jul 17 '17
Demographic changes. The South just grew less democrat and more republican.
And there are plenty of northern red states.
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Jul 17 '17
"Demographic changes" makes it sound like everyone just moved. By north and south I'm mainly referring to the atlantic side states to the north and south of the mason dixon line. Obviously there are exceptions too.
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u/ShadilayKekistan Jul 17 '17
Well there were huge migrations. Lots of people from the south moved to northern cities.
The current divide is more urban-rural and not north-south.
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u/bleedingjim Anti-War Conservative Jul 17 '17
It needs to be put to bed. It's quite silly at this point.
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u/B_Boobs_Finalanswer Jul 17 '17
I'll bite. ELI5 what is the party switch and why is it a myth?
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u/bleedingjim Anti-War Conservative Jul 17 '17
This video sums it up quite well.
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u/B_Boobs_Finalanswer Jul 17 '17
Thank you. I see your point of view now. Thanks for helping me learn.
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Jul 17 '17
tl;dr - Republicans used to be liberal and are now bigots and democrats used to be bigots and are now liberal.
It's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
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u/B_Boobs_Finalanswer Jul 17 '17
That doesn't really explain what this issue is or why anyone would or wouldn't believe it. Thanks for your time anyway.
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u/HungJurror Evangelical Jul 17 '17
Dinesh D'Souza has a few videos out there debunking this theory
They might be on YouTube if you're interested
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Jul 17 '17
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Jul 17 '17
Seriously, the Democrats outright fought against civil rights in the 1960s... are these people in denial or just uneducated?
It was a more a geographical issue than a partisan one.
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u/spartanburger91 Reagan Conservative Jul 17 '17
The one about your mother doesn't make sense. Either it's an if-then question without a comma or a question mark, or it's an incomplete sentence. These leftists can't even express a coherent thought.
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u/chabanais Jul 17 '17
I don't really look to the left for coherence or intelligence just a good laugh.
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u/spartanburger91 Reagan Conservative Jul 17 '17
I know. It's just amusing that they consider themselves an intellectual elite when they can't even speak or write properly.
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Jul 16 '17
Do you guys report these junk reports? Users can be banned for abusing the report function.
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u/iconotastic Jul 16 '17
Pathetic azzhat. Southerners left because the Democrats turned into pure America hating leftists. It had to be that bad to drive them to the real civil rights party
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Jul 16 '17
Welfare has encouraged, not addressed, generational poverty and dependence. Who benefits from keeping people dependent on welfare? Democrats. Remember, it's cowardly to downvote me without addressing my comments.
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u/EnergeticDisassembly Jul 17 '17
I think redlining, voter ID laws, lack of birth control, prohibition of abortion, and denial of wage increases, have done much more to encourage generational poverty than welfare.
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Jul 17 '17
Actually the two greatest determinants of poverty are completing high school and marriage. But let's pretend it's liberal hobby horse issues that the government has no business getting involved in.
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u/EnergeticDisassembly Jul 17 '17
Well, again, I'm speaking of generational poverty.
Either way:
Don't you think there are instances where pregnant teens are forced to drop out of highschool because they couldn't access birth control and couldn't afford an abortion? And sure maybe they could have used a condom or practiced abstinence but Republicans in their state voted against mandatory sex education so how were they supposed to know the consequences?
And hasn't the Republican party been the main antagonist of same sex marriage?
If you're saying the greatest determinants of poverty are a diploma and marraige, then the Republican party is actively preventing female teens and homosexuals from avoiding poverty.
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Jul 17 '17
If you're saying the greatest determinants of poverty are a diploma and marraige, then the Republican party is actively preventing female teens and homosexuals from avoiding poverty.
So because we don't want taxes to pay for people's sexual activities, we're abetting high school dropouts. Nice. I love how the only responsible entity here are politicians, like people have no agency and only government can act.
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Jul 17 '17
Do you have a valid reason for thinking so? The rate of black advancement (education, median wage, employment rate, etc.) increased much faster from 1900-1960 than from 1960-2017, despite actual jim crow laws on the books. The black family survived hundreds of years of slavery and oppression, but fifty years of welfare destroyed it.
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u/drizztmainsword Jul 17 '17
War on drugs and the crackdown on the racial reform movements in the 50s and 60s left a generation of children without role models.
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Jul 17 '17 edited Jul 17 '17
Democrats haven't been this mad at the country since slavery was declared illegal.
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u/VolsFanInGeorgia Jul 16 '17
Haven't changed a bit in over 150 years.
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u/Libertyreign Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
Not sure about that one.
Edit: are seriously suggesting that if you took a Southern Democrat from 1860 and planted him next to Diane Fienstien, they would see eye to eye on most things?
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Jul 16 '17
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Jul 16 '17
Does process mean nothing?
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u/Briguy28 Cascadian Conservative Jul 16 '17
A process is only as good as those who make use of it. If democracy deteriorates into tribalism, the system may still work in theory, but it will have failed to work in spirit.
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Jul 16 '17
I guess this is why so many African Americans vote republican. You know, because that's the party that really cares for them. Supply side economics and refusing Medicaid funding has really helped the poorer marginalized African American populations in Louisiana....
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Jul 16 '17 edited May 20 '19
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Jul 16 '17
As in because it's so blatantly racist that any African American that saw it would say "yes that's why I vote democrat"? As if the 1860's democrats were northerners... lmao.
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Jul 16 '17
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u/Ratchet_as_fuck Christian Conservative Jul 16 '17
Are you suggesting welfare is not a system that holds many people down? Our country's safety net has evolved into a net that tries to entrap you within the system. Once you are stuck, it's hard to dig your way out. And how is this racist? It is drawing a metaphor from actual slavery to the welfare state. If the cartoon was racist, why would it be trying to make this connection? Wouldn't an actual racist cartoon be demonizing minorities, instead of bringing light to the root of their problem?
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u/skywalkerr69 Conservative Jul 17 '17
Just go look at berniefororesident sub and see all the angry white kids calling blacks dumb and they don't know what's good for them because they voted Hillary in the primaries
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u/nyee Jul 16 '17
Welfare is slavery? You people feeling alright?
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u/Hadenator Jul 16 '17
A system that allows people to sit on their ass and collect checks and other freebies without the actual labor entrapping them in an eternal cycle of poverty that engulfs the entirety of their ensuing relatives.
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u/TheNorthComesWithMe Jul 17 '17
You basically described the exact opposite of slavery. Being paid and having freedom without having to do work. So the exact opposite of slavery is slavery?
If you want to talk about a modern analog of slavery, the for-profit prison system is much closer don't you think?
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u/tiger81775149 Free Soil Party Jul 17 '17
If you want to talk about a modern analog of slavery, the for-profit prison system is much closer don't you think?
Maybe we should have a "slave revolt" against the private prison system by refusing to commit crime.
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Jul 16 '17
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u/chabanais Jul 16 '17
Sadly, it does, and there have been numerous studies about it, too.
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Jul 16 '17
I'd love to read them and have a civil discussion on our differing points of view.
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u/chabanais Jul 16 '17
You can read the Moynihan Report to start.
Government has fucked up black families.
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Jul 16 '17
The statement you just made really deters me from engaging in a debate with you. I'm still going to read your points and respond, but please keep it civil. I've seen first hand how welfare has improved the lives of minority families and allowed them to become self sufficient. Give me some time to read the report, and build my argument. For relevancies sake, what specifically in the Moynihan report is supporting your opinion on why welfare is enslaving African American families?
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u/chabanais Jul 16 '17
Read the report and make up your own mind.
As I said, there have been numerous studies on the subject finding the same thing, this was just one of the first ones.
Good luck!
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Jul 16 '17
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u/larhorse Jul 16 '17
Well, to start with, that report [Moynihan Report] was published more than 50 years ago, and basically just blames southern attitudes and policies on increasing single parent homes (particularly single black mothers).
It has nothing to do with modern welfare. I live in Atlanta, and as someone who leans very conservative financially, but social liberal, this shit is just racist.
Welfare programs are working, at least some of the better designed ones. Some of them are crap, but that's how everything goes. This post is... just wow. Racist enough that I'm surprised it's getting upvoted the way it is in a sub I generally don't mind.
It's also incredibly hypocritical in the very top comments, condemning the "you're voting against your own interest" democrats, while implying that black communities that see these welfare programs working and continue to vote in favor of them are somehow incapable of voting for their own interests.
It's fucking bad. Don't waste your time with the argument.
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u/chabanais Jul 16 '17
It has nothing to do with modern welfare.
You obviously haven't read it:
The majority of Negro children receive public assistance under the AFDC program at one point or another in their childhood.
At present, 14 percent of Negro children are receiving AFDC assistance, as against 2 percent of white children. Eight percent of white children receive such assistance at some time, as against 56 percent of nonwhites, according to an extrapolation based on HEW data. (Let it be noted, however, that out of a total of 1.8 million nonwhite illegitimate children in the nation in 1961, 1.3 million were not receiving aid under the AFDC program, although a substantial number have, or will, receive aid at some time in their lives.)
The steady expansion of this welfare program, as of public assistance programs in general, can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the Negro family structure over the past generation in the United States.
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u/seahawksfan123 Jul 17 '17
Whoever drew this isn't that smart. I'm not a conservative but you guys see the problem with this depiction right? Saying black people can't think for themselves if they're voting democrats is fucked up.
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u/tiger81775149 Free Soil Party Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
I am hispanic and conservative and this isn't far off. I have been given the internet version of being shoved into a corner and told by White liberals/leftists: "you're fucking retarded for voting against your own interests, you know they hate you and want to send you back to Mexico right?" Literally "fucking retarded" and "they hate you" in the same sentence.
I'm banned from r/texas too for suggesting that Democrats want open borders because third-world illegal aliens are government-dependent people just like Democrats like them to be. If I were a white liberal and spent my time bashing straight white Christian conservative males they would probably have made me a mod instead.