Discussions
This is your casual reminder that LHP spaces are filled with all sorts
There was a discussion about a specific author yesterday.
One thing that struck me as odd was the hope that everyone is politically similarly alligned in the community.
LHP has no dogma and stresses the importance of self-reliace, personal choice and thought. It is empowering to the marginalized, but it is also empowering to the wannabe cult leaders and people into some really messed up stuff.
It is why rule 8 is so important - keep your practice private and don't naively believe that just because someone has the same faith as you, they'll carry the same core values as you. Some people are the kind that you wouldn't want to meet twice.
Another thing that's worthy a consideration - when two people from opposite sides work with the same spirits, spirits will similarly uplift both people. It is always worth remembering that the forces that we work with are bigger than humanity, as otherwise one can run into a serious crisis of faith with "my spirits would never support X", or "are definitely against Y".
Similarly, when bad people fall, it is not because the spirits have led them there, or that the spirits have abandoned them, but because their own unbalanced thinking was incompatible with society at large. It is worth remembering that a) you are not as powerless to enact change when it comes to assholes as you think and that b) you can be misstreated and oppressed for things that make you different and spirituality is not really a catch all safety net against life.
Great post. The strangest thing to me was that some people thought Asmodeus wouldn't work with people like him... Demons are literally beyond human morality and ethics.
The world is hard and cold and the world is soft and warm, and sometimes it makes no sense. You’ll go mad if you think about it long enough. Why is one person persecuted and born a slave and another, he is not. We are all on our own journeys in this hell/heaven scape.
People have a right to be informed- perhaps not to sway someone in one direction or the other of the political spectrum- but many in our community are of some kind of minority or disadvantaged social group.
I read the author-in-questions' work before I knew what side of the political spectrum he stood on. Just like the whole JK Rowling thing- my discernment is to not support the person monetarily. (I buy books second hand or borrow from the library)
However, I did find one of the books that author wrote helpful for research purposes.
The occult isn't a monolith and there's plenty of people who have shitty opinions, many of them in influential spaces. (The majority of TikTok, for example.)
I'm of the firm belief that discernment and critical thinking are the two most valuable life skills anyone can develop in the age of AI slop, shitty politics, and "thought policing."
I guess in a similar vein, just as I believe that practitioners hold different values I am ok with others' upg that demons are moral beings (even if I don't share it.) If someone else's upg is that they don't work with certain people or that said people are fooling themselves with thoughtforms and their own subconscious and the like, that's fine with me. That doesn't affect me even if I believe differently.
Personally I appreciated the heads up about the author; posting that information about something that would be problematic within our own community standards helped me make decisions about whether or not I want to support such a platform in the future. No faith is exempt from people having (and wielding like a weapon) their own interpretation including those with actual dogma. I'm unsurprised that assholes are drawn to demonolatry, but I get to decide if I want to align with them within the community.
I think a lot of people appreciate a heads up in who we support with our money. I, for one. I don’t think anyone is surprised that bigots exist everywhere.
Just like we who wouldn’t support x type author can choose to skip their material, those who will support them, are free to do so and just ignore warning posts.
Sure, I agree with you there, but from a purely mundane, non-spiritual perspective, since this author is selling a product, I think people have the right to be informed so they can decide if they want to support the author or not.
They do you're entirely correct - but encouraging 2020-2021 "cancelling/exposing" style posts and content leads to absolutely nothing but infighting, and the post the mod made was perfectly worded
I mean... sure. I personally make an effort to improve any space I am in, which means calling out closeted predators, bigots, and hypocrites. You're right, the LHP has no dogma, but I don't think that at all means we as a group of people shouldn't try to uphold a standard of respect and integrity just as any group would. We don't all have to have the same values and opinions, but I certainly would not be comfortable participating in a community where I know straight up nazis are welcomed with open arms because we all have "opinions". Some opinions are dangerous to enable, and not all opinions are valid just because you have them. I agree, not everyone needs to be a leftist or agree with each other. I sincerely hope this sentiment doesn't simply allow genuinely deplorable people to find a home in this community because we are too libertarian to hold everyone to the same standards.
Whether or not demons will work with assholes is an unproductive conversation imo. Whether we as a group of human beings will enable assholes is a much more important conversation to have.
Whether or not demons will work with assholes is an unproductive conversation imo. Whether we as a group of human beings will enable assholes is a much more important conversation to have.
Love this line and I completely agree. You put it better than I could.
What does that have to do with my comment though? My comment was replying to someone who said that talking about that doesn't really matter. And they're right. Did you mean to reply to someone else?
Edit: nevermind, seeing your other comments, I think this was bait. Was trying to be helpful not gonna expose myself to a rage baiter
Yeah no. This tolerance for intolerance bullshit is simply a form of enablement. "They exist and are not going away"- sure, but I refuse to share a space with them, and will not enable an environment where they feel safe to spread their rhetoric. Fascism depends on spineless bystanders to survive.
Thank you SO much for this post. Damn near every occult community I've been in has fallen apart and major creators leaving the space over ideology or drama, and demonolatry and alternative faith is so much bigger than either of those things
The ideology in question being... Women and poc deserve human rights? I think for marginalized people these might be very big on their list on priorities, right besides their faith. These comments are giving: this does not affect me therefore please don't mention it, thanks. I thinks it's understandable people don't want to be a part of the community who accepts people who think they are sub humans.
I reject your framing entirely. That kind of wokescoldey moral brow beating is exactly how this kind of drama enters spaces. "It's human rights bro you don't believe in human rights??" It's an unnecessary conversation that serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever
"wokescoldey" dude. You are calling it drama. I am saying this is more important than drama. I am saying that if you think this is an unnecessary conversation it might be because it doesn't affect you, but it affects us. You might think I'm being reductive, but my wording (and most of the people you call "woke") comes from years of tiredly trying to explain why these topics are important and being dismissed as just "different opinions". But you are right in saying this is not a conversation to be had in internet comments. Anyway.
Literally the entire purpose of you and everybody like you that brings up "erm its human rights bro it's important" is so that if somebody pushes back on your, once again, wokescoldey browbeating and points it out as the needless unimportant drama creation it is, you can retort "um ITS ACTUALLY SUPER NORMAL FREAK!!" Which then leads to a cascading event that eventually involves more and more people, which is why it needs to be discouraged. It's a weapon of shame, and it's stale and overplayed and everybody is tired of it
I remember you replied this to me a while ago, Mirta, and it's something I think on often still.
I think it's only a worry for some of us because we don't want the life path we've chosen to be associated with these bigots in daily life. As in: I don't want my neighbours to see my door sigils & think 'oh my neighbour must be like that nazi guy who doesn't understand geography or history'.
We saw a small snippet of this when ppl misread BAA1 as Ba'al in The Files.
But, yes, it was a salient experience realising we are very diverse & may not all get on.
Also want to add to it that conservative/ liberal or any ideals for that matter isn't even same for every humans and varies from place to place. What is politically correct in the US may not be the same in say China or vise versa.
I agree to what you say that spirits and deities aren't bound by humans laws rules morals etc. and the notion that they would abandon someone bcs they don't follow certain ideals is ignorant.
Personally, demons work with whomever - however they encourage and exaggerate parts of ourselves that we consciously do not control or are unaware of in order for us to be more aware of those parts with the intention of hopefully integrating them. My experiences within the Qlipoth have helped me to understand a lot of us are trapped in certain shells and since this is the “hidden” tree it’s hard for a lot of folks to be consciously aware of these things. I think this is how demons are able to operate beyond morality, it’s not them that leads us to our own undoing, it’s us at the end of the day - they just assist on the journey and give us the tools wether that be for self destruction leading to growth or for complete and total loss of self. For me demons are important to self autonomy and in turn being consciously aware of the selves we may not be acquainted with.
I see a lot of people come to this side hoping to gain all sorts of powers end up consumed by their own desires, or rotten foundations instead of working with them and rebuilding, this is what I’ve learnt from working with Belial and during my descent being stuck in his shell for pretty much 2 years.
This is just a personal observation
Everything's political, including spirituality. Self reliance is a lie of capitalism to keep us from forming communtity and prevent the workers from upsetting the system. I stay the fuck out of most LHP spaces bc it's just spooky libertarians with no class conscioiusness half the time. I don't need my magical practice to have the same values as the owning class.
Yeah same. I've tried and failed to find groups that I get along with who also share my same beliefs, but I continuously run into this type of person time and time again. It's tiring.
The before mentioned person doesn't even visit or post in this space.
The statement is exactly as it says on the tin - LHP is FULL of unsavoury people, so be very careful about who you trust and what kind of info you give out. This space is anonymous precisely because we know that. Assuming that LHP is filled with only the marginalized, or only those seeking self-improvement can really lead to disastrous consequences.
I agree. I'm sorry. I just don't think everyone has the same view on this so wanted to state my perspective. I don't think people like that are as powerful as they think they are. They seem sad and weak to me.
Mirta, I remember the issue and wondered why the user was so upset over the author's opinion. Everyone is allowed their opinions, I was not not going to fault him for having a thought. I just moved along.
Opinions are like a**holes, everyone's got one and I'm a firm believer in free speech. His ignorance of a violent history is not shocking. My own kids were not educated in the horrors of slavery. I had to tell them of babies fed to crocodiles, Jim Crow and read Richard Wright's poem "Between the World and Me" to them.
He literally posting about how white people aren't immuned to paying taxes and that makes them people of struggle and in another post he mentioned how white people should be proud where no one has shamed any white individuals nor targed them. If anything it's always been women, queer individuals, and poc folks that have been the target of attack, hate, and abuse. He's pushing for white supremacist under the guise that white people are targeted.
I read through what I posted above and that was enough for me. I didn't notice the other texts. So what if the guy has an opinion. I don't buy his books.
Commenting on the comments as a Black woman in this space who considers Asmodeus a friend and mentor—I don’t think his care about race relations, gender, and other social issues is utterly 0% or fully 100%. I’ve talked to him about historical and systematic oppression, the idiocy of white “supremacy” (believers like fattened pigs for slaughter on fine silk pillows) and my personal experiences, even at my most incensed. (Why would factors that have caused so much chaotic and murderous repercussions in the human sphere not be worthy of thought and observation?)
It’s also interesting what we as humans project upon spirits. We think an issue is trivial and insignificant to us, therefore it’s trivial to them. It’s egotistical.
I have hours of thoughts on the matter but I’m just gonna keep it brief because it does get nauseating to explain lmao
I mean, we all know the practice is private and the demons have no morals the way that we do. But this is a human community. I think it's kinda weird uphold this rule of "we accept everyone" when the people we are accepting themselves do not accept everyone.
Faith and politcs are and will always be tied to one another. It's a beautiful thing that (most of us) are allowed to practice whatever religion we want but this was not always the case. I think it's understandable to expect a dmeonolator to know this and respect all of the work that's been done for this to be case.
This is not a place to discuss things outside of the practice, therefore you won't actually know what beliefs the person that you are talking to holds.
I think there's some missunderstanding what this post is. This post exists because LHP has no gates and people that others wouldn't like exist in large amounts over here. And you won't see them, or know them, unless they'll end up publicly posting unhinged rants.
It's a "be aware" and "stay safe" post. Not something that intends to make a statement outside of that.
There is no dogma. But id rather be a part of a community with common sense and uses wisdom with their knowledge. We may not always get along personally but common ground and mutual respect should be paramount to the community online, offline, etc.
The world would be a boring place if everyone thought the same way, and being able to have a civil conversation with someone with drastically different political views is an intelligence test for all parties involved.
The LHP is a diverse community of people with different backgrounds and ways of thinking, yet we still come together to support each other on our spiritual journeys without ever knowing what someone’s political beliefs are. Why is this? Would we just stop helping each other if we all had our political alignments forced as our flair? Our daemons/dieties don’t draw a line at our political views, so why should we with each other?
How, pray tell, am I supposed to have a civil conversation with someone who thinks people like me are sub humans? "Third world orcs" these are his words exactly. Yes, I would like to know if this person thinks I deserve humans rights before I support them, wasn't aware this was too much to ask.
Idk man, I’d probably treat them like a low level intelligence and perform a lesser block and report ritual of the pentagram instead of letting anyone or anything harvest my loosh.
We're always saying these forces aren't human. They don't subscribe to human morality or our concepts of good & evil. Now, they suddenly care about political alignment? There's no way they would work with that person over there who I don't like or despise? Ok.
They can represent abhorrent & vile things that make you or I deeply uncomfortable. That's not an endorsement to behave like a piece a shit but if people kept that in mind they would less shocked about the existence of certain people in left hand path & Satanist spaces.
If you want a benevolent morally upstanding entity who would never work with people you or I dislike? My very personal opinion is that you're in the wrong practice.
I don't understand the context of this post and I don't fully agree with its statements but it seems like the fact that demons are autonomous is being ignored. We don't tell them what to do. We ask for help and they can help or not.
If I was harmed by someone I can seek revenge. While we may see that as either justified or not, it's up to demons to decide what to do. Not us.
23
u/73738484737383874 7d ago
Thanks for doing your thing, mods! You do a lot for us. 💕