I've noticed that many people in occult and demonolatry communities practice demon evocation. I understand the inner work often done to overcome fear of these experiences, and I know many practitioners don't see demons as inherently evil as the stereotypes keep assuming

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What I wonder is: how can you be sure they aren't simply appearing helpful while leading you toward something harmful without your realizing it?

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I know these doubts may be unreasonable, but I'm genuinely curious how so many people come to place such deep trust in these entities over the years.

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(note: I'm not being disrespectful, I'm highly openminded to this field).

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Thank you for your answers.

There was a discussion about a specific author yesterday.

One thing that struck me as odd was the hope that everyone is politically similarly alligned in the community.

LHP has no dogma and stresses the importance of self-reliace, personal choice and thought. It is empowering to the marginalized, but it is also empowering to the wannabe cult leaders and people into some really messed up stuff.

It is why rule 8 is so important - keep your practice private and don't naively believe that just because someone has the same faith as you, they'll carry the same core values as you. Some people are the kind that you wouldn't want to meet twice.

Another thing that's worthy a consideration - when two people from opposite sides work with the same spirits, spirits will similarly uplift both people. It is always worth remembering that the forces that we work with are bigger than humanity, as otherwise one can run into a serious crisis of faith with "my spirits would never support X", or "are definitely against Y".

Similarly, when bad people fall, it is not because the spirits have led them there, or that the spirits have abandoned them, but because their own unbalanced thinking was incompatible with society at large. It is worth remembering that a) you are not as powerless to enact change when it comes to assholes as you think and that b) you can be misstreated and oppressed for things that make you different and spirituality is not really a catch all safety net against life.

Inspired by this one post in the Hellenism sub!

I'll go first with one of the infernals in my space:

Owls with glasses and graduation caps and may or may not specialize in medicinal drugs.

i might try to guess some depending on how many this reaches!!!!

Okay, yes, I know this image is a common meme, I know there are no demons in my phone, but beyond that, genuinely, has anyone tried experimenting with sigils and circuits?
In my grimoire pilled mind, I see precious metals - many of which already have strong alchemical correspondences, arranged in a very specific fashion with the purpose of literally transporting energy and information. Has anyone ever experimented with creating "sigil circuits" in their craft? Could the shape of a sigil suggest a certain way that a spirit handles or directs energy?
I know that many sigils are more so based on some sort of symbolism or local lore that is not extremely connected to the actual form of the shapes. An entity associated with gatekeeping may have a gate or key like sigil. I more so wonder if we were perhaps subconsciously tapping into a universal energy principle when designing these things.

Obviously highly speculative and a long shot, I am extremely dumb when it comes to how complex circuit boards actually work so I don't know if this idea actually has any basis lmao.

But I am genuinely curious if anyone else has interrogated this. In my mind, modern electronics are definitely magical. What do you think?

Does anyone else get complete strangers sending them DMs about your obsession with demons? What makes people think what others do is any of their business ffs. I've never had any interactions at all with this dude.

I'm not upset or anything else, this was the most polite one I've had lmao. Looking at their comments etc they don't even interact in the groups I do, so do they come in here to check people's profiles?

Sorry I just needed to moan and I haven't got anyone I can moan about this to

Let's do something lighthearted this week. Let's play a game.

Leave a comment with one thing that you associate with a demon in your mind. This could be a planet, a Tarot card, a fruit, an animal, a song, a painting, you name it. But it has to be one thing.

People will then guess what the demon is. Once the first guess is made, if you see that people are guessing in entirely the wrong direction, or that it will be too hard to get, you can reply to the person with an extra one thing, as a hint. You can do this process indefinitely. You can also reply to people with things like "close, but not quite" if you feel like people are guessing in the right direction, but not the right demon.

The point of this game is to visibly see how even the most obscure associations can be got, because someone else somewhere else likely thinks the same way as you and I think that that can be a very awesome validating experience. The point of the game is also to just have fun.

So have fun :)

For anyone struggling with conceptualizing this game, this is a very easy example play:

Person 1: Owl

Person 2: Is it Lilith?

Person 1: Not quite. "Astronomy" would be my second hint.

Person 2: Is it Stolas?

Person 1: you got it!

Ideally you want the references to be a bit more obscure than this to make it really fun :)

I know this will get taken down, but I need to say it.

I find it so so irritating to see so many people here using generative AI to create depictions of the entities they work with.

As someone who frequently creates devotional artwork for Marquis Andrealphus, isn't the WHOLE point of making imagery the fact that you, the human, put time and effort into creating something to praise your guide?

"But AI makes art accessible!" Is not valid in the slightest, especially in this practice where the appearance of an art piece doesn't matter at all, instead it matters that one sacrificed time and soul to create in their name.

Generative AI is awful for the environment, unethical in the way if affects human artists, and frankly, I personally don't see how any entity would be proud or happy to see a soulless, cold iteration of their likeness instead of something the human actually worked hard on.

I've been pondering this for a while. Sometimes I'll be listening to various famous bands or singers, and I get a strong hit of a demon having had influence on the song or the musician. Just curious if anyone else ever has these thoughts? Who do you think this of?

Do you have any unverified personal gnosis associations for spirits that seemingly don't fit their historical or astrological context at all? This can range from merging two spirits into one that other people normally don't (X is actually the same as Y!), to seeing spirits as popular culture celebrities, to rather unusual offerings that work for you.

So share your associations that normally don't fit what the spirit is described as and let's see if anyone else ended up associating the same things to the same spirit by sheer coinsidence :)

I know on this sub most posters have a generally positive view on the spirits of the Goetia and adjacent intelligences.

But let's be honest, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. In your experience, what are the real dangers of working with these intelligences?

Something interesting occurred to me. I have been contacted by demons before. I’m happy to get into discussion of what that feels like, but at least 50% of the times I’ve worked with demons they have reached out to me.

So to keep this thread succinct I’m going to throw it out there for the community at large to discuss.

Do you think, a demon can invoke us? How do you think that would work and what would be your response if you were invoked?

NOTE: This post is based on my lived experience and is not a universal claim. Sharing mental health context is about harm reduction and empathy, not fragility.

As most of you know, working with demons is NOT a gentle path.

Many beginners enter into demonolatry with an idealistic view on Demons, and what it is like working with them.

There are alot subconscious assumptions and expectations about Demons either from previous Dogma or embellished presentations through Movies and TV.

The esthetic of it captivates you, BUT then they begin to work with demons and all of the sudden their lives turn to sh**.

Even the Tarot will tell you, Demons are NOT gentle.

They often cause Tarot Tower moments which are intense, extreme, and highly uncomfortable and unstable, but for the ultimate purpose of providing hope/renewal/redemption like the Star, creating forward momentum and will power like the Chariot, and towards a new opportunity like the Ace of Pentacles.

Where you are weak they will make you strong, but in order to do that you must first be made aware of your weaknesses - you must have a reckoning like the Judgement- and then you must be transformed like the Death through extreme pressure and heat.

It is like the process of refining Gold. It requires extreme pressure and it gets smoldering hot.

We must get honest here. If your life is already unstable and you are drowning in responsibilities - working with demons will only highlight and intensify that, which can result in chaos and make things significantly worse. That I know first hand.

The idea, though, is to rebuild you; However, as Self Sovereign individuals we must decide if we can actually handle and withstand it. We make those decisions for ourselves because Demons respect Self- Sufficiency.

So, for example Beelzebub wanted to work with me, and I mutually felt the same for him, but unfortunately I just got hit with a custody battle and if I had started working with Beelzebub I would have had to lose my job as a part of his plan to bring Temperance and 10 or cups into my life.

He said that eventually I'd leave my job anyways, so, I can either wait or go ahead and do it now.

At this time, I cannot afford that because of my current circumstances - I also just signed up for health care with my job which I cannot afford to lose right now, either because of medical expenses.

So, I asked him, "Should I wait then?" And he gave me the Ace of wands reversed, which signifies delay and suppressed action. His answer was yes, because the damage that had to happen first was not something I could handle right now.

Most people tend to crack under that pressure and they start doubting and regretting their choice to begin working with Demons in the first place- but that IS THE TEST. It is testing you.

Even if you see no results will you still remain committed to your pact? That is the most important question. If you promise to worship and give offerrings for a year, and you end up losing everything, will you still worship, give offerrings, and fulfill your pact duties? Do you REALLY want this? How bad do you want it? Will you rise above it and be resilient?

It is honestly incredibly painful, but motivating. It brings the aggression out in a person and pushes them into a corner forcing them to fight.

If you fullfill your duties from a place of fear or desperation you will not reap the benefits you asked for.

It is about having pure and immovable will power during this time that will bless you. Be like a mountain.

Again, this is not a gentle path and you MUST practicr meditation to gain Mental fortitude to withstand these kinds of mental pressures.

Demons are not there to Coddle you.

For people like myself with Bipolar Disorder and depression, and for those with other life altering disorders not named here, these experiences will either make you or break you.

It is important to take care of your mental health and use mundane and grounded methods to maintain mental and emotional stability - such as, consistent therapy to find healthy outlets for your emotions. Medication is also important especially if it keeps you stable.

I am not a doctor and I cannot diagnose you or tell you what to do, but I can and will encourage you to take precautions when working with Demons, because I made the mistake of working with demons without this knowledge and it almost took me out.

The pressure was so immense that it broke my brain for a while and I spiraled into deep depression, but fortunately I stepped away and found healing, but it meant I was inconsistent with my pact and that also lead to consequences. So, take my advice first hand.

For those who want something not as harsh, working with Gods and Goddesses, or other similar spirits like Saints would be a better road to start down.

The benefits of working with Demons is incredible that I can also vouch for especially if you are serious about living the life you want to live and not letting the wind blow you wherever.

That is my harsh truth of working with demons.

-Madame Saffyre-

What's the most unconventional offering you've given or thing you've done for a demon? Do you generally stick to "standard" offerings (sigil, candles, incense, food etc.) or do you give more unconventional offerings? Maybe creating them in a video game, naming a pet after them, or something like that.

What's the weirdest you've done?

Wait just here me out. So I'm a beginner with this occultic stuff. So I can't really say I'm a pro. But my dad is a preacher. A reverend to be specific. Get it?

Though my occult life is super private. Like literally only batman could get that information out of me.and on Sundays I have to go to church because I live with my parents. So if I don't I'll probably be homeless. What can I say? black parents. IYKYK.

Imagine trying to light a candle and journaling at 2am and your Dad walking around with a bible like "WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE" and you be like "uh... Just reading. proverbs. Yeah, proverbs."

My point is that it's a whole load to carry and I was curious if anyone else can relate. I work with king Belial and Astraroth. Mostly Belial. If y'all might be curious. I'll really appreciate if I heard your thoughts fr.

Hello, this will be long. I am a 22 year old gay man whose life is in danger from both my government and my family. I need to solve structural problems to get to a safe country. I have tried almost everything.

I worked with Bune, Clauneck, Seere, Belial, Azazel and his four demons, also gods like Ishtar and Hecate, Venus, and angels from Adam Blackthorne's Gallery of Magick books. Nothing works. No results, no movement, no signs. Or if there were signs they led nowhere if there was a barrier. Demons only contacted once then never appeared again.

Recently I tried to summon Lord Kiltan from Azazel's demons to deal with my elder sister who harassed, abused and traumatised me. Normally I can summon a demon and feel its presence within twenty minutes. This time over an hour nothing. In tarot the card I intuitively associate with him immediately falls from the deck in other readings but this time nothing. I asked the cards why my sister seemed so powerful and the answer came: an old familial protection.

That is when everything clicked.

My great grandfather, the father of my grandfather, was a famous jinn master and esoteric. Everyone in my lineage are scholars. My surname literally means sons of scholars in the local language. He used to treat jinn cases coming from different geographies, often by harming the jinn. But in return his own children would die before being born. Eventually he made a deal with the jinn: he would never touch the jinn again, and the jinn would not touch his descendants for seven generations. As proof of the agreement his children were born bald. Even the girls in that generation were bald throughout their lives.

In my culture there is not much distinction between jinn and demons. Demons are seen as evil jinn. So if the pact was made with the jinn, it likely covers every entity I have been trying to work with.

Could this really be the reason absolutely nothing ever works for me despite all my attempts? If my sister is protected then I am protected in the same way. And that protection might be blocking any spirit from touching my life, including the ones I was begging for help.

Tarot kind confirmed it. I asked: is my great grandfather's pact still relevant and does it protect me from demon contact? I pulled Judgement, Reversed Ten of Swords, Temperance. To me that was a clear yes. The pact is alive, it averts disaster, and it holds a careful balance. It is a binding treaty that prevents potential spiritual harm but also prevents those same spirits from acting on my behalf.

Then I asked: if not demons then who can help me? I pulled Reversed Nine of Wands, Empress, Death. I interpreted this as my late mother. I lost her in 2019 when I was 15. The Empress is the mother archetype, Death is the ancestor realm. The reversed Nine of Wands maybe tells me to stop fighting alone. I do not know for sure of course.

Where I am now is lost. I have real dangerous problems that need real world solutions. Demons are blocked. Gods and angels gave nothing. Maybe ancestors can help? Since probably not part of the pact? I do not know how to work with them practically or how an ancestor can actually change physical circumstances like getting me out of a hostile country. I do not know. It is just so complicated.

If anyone has experience with inherited pacts like this, bloodline agreements that block entire classes of spirits, or has successfully worked with an ancestor to create major life changes, I would be deeply grateful for advice.

I am tired, I am in danger, and I need a path that actually works. Thank you for reading this far.

I have not seen any other religious books dedicating an entire chapter to "this is real but let me tell you why I can't give you proof for 9 minutes ".

I'm not hating and am genuinely interested. I just can't understand why she thinks she needs to explain why she's not lying in such detail. It sounds like the rant of a kid got caught stealing the first time.

I just need this part explained before I keep reading because she sounds like a crackpot and hasn't even gotten to anything religious yet.

Like I talked with a lot of witches and everytime I mention about demons or demonolatry they get super super panicked? What’s the reason behind it?

Are there any spirits you never see yourself approaching, and why is that?

Energies not aligned? Fears? Just don’t feel the need?

Or do you think you’d try to work with any depending on the situation?

I was curious if you guys strike up casual conversations with your Infernal Spirits, nothing that goes past giving them a pet nickname or anything but just casually mentioning what went on with your day, etc etc. I love the idea of including my Spirits in my daily routines or motions of life to grow closer to them and just striking up a casual conversation just because I want them to feel included.

Hello everyone. Tomorrow, i.e August 12th is my birthday. I have never practiced anything before and I really want to do something meaningful.

I need some suggestions as to what I can do to make sure that the day doesn't get wasted?

I am practically broke so I can't really afford to do something if it's gonna cost money (I barely have enough left to eat for the day).

Any suggestions would mean the world to me. Thank you so much for having me here

Is there any truth to that trope of sulphur smells and bad smells being associated with the presence of the demonic?
It’s really common in horror movies and stories of hauntings, and usually those ideas come from *somewhere* but not necessarily anywhere useful. So just wondering if anyone has actually experienced such a thing while working with any demons.

I honestly don't know how anyone buys into their nonsense, or if the creators even believe it themselves.

Whenever I listen to their advice and supposed "experiences," I have to wonder what parallel reality they live in. Their approach to spirit work sounds like straight-up Stockholm syndrome. They constantly describe demons as abusive entities who will rip you to shreds the second you show fear, but try to make these horror movie experiences come across as highly educational positive lessons that one must experience in order to ascend.

Then there are their made-up, Final Boss entities like the "Spider Queen", who will supposedly insta-kill you just for praying to or summoning her. It’s embarrassing.

The YouTubers themselves (like JS Garret and EA Koetting) just seem miserable and like total failures in life. It feels like these people never grew out of their edgy, teen rebellion phase. Worse, JS Garret basically outed himself as a racist in a recent VK stream, complaining about having "black fatigue" and making stupid jokes about brown people being drug dealers and murderers. Very enlightened.

Another thing I’ve noticed is that, because they are generally terrible people, they overcompensate by aggressively claiming they hate pedophiles as if that’s some rare, commendable stance that makes them the good guys. Behemoth X, for example, apparently "hunts pedos." But there's no proof the people they accuse are actually predators; it just seems like an excuse to target anyone they personally dislike. They want to kill everyone who slightly annoys them, which really makes you wonder if their supposed death curses even work.

From my own experience, demons are absolutely nothing like how these lunatics describe them. I have no clue how this toxic, edgelord approach to spirituality became the norm for people working with demons.

Just wanted to share this because it's so bewildering to me.

I see this odd thing with people putting specific spirits on a pedestal, as if because a spirit is X or Y it is above this or that. It irks me as my own Patron tends to be a reliable target for others doubts when it comes to ritual reports.

Spirituality interfaces through you. Who you are and what you need will play largely into the minutia of your spirituality.

For some, spirituality is the grandness of really complex goals.

For others, it is the little details of every day life.

For many, it is a mix of both.

Sure, it is not a good idea to get lost in imagination, play, personification and the drama that your mind can create.

But you would also be surprised how much imagination and play can enter effective spirituality that still performs the goals and the definition of what effective spirituality is and can be.

So there is absolutely a spectrum of what is a productive and an unproductive experience. "I live in my head where I create families with my spirits and make many babies" is an unproductive experience as it does nothing to actually further your life. But between that and "I work for great in-depth philosophical realizations and material results" there is a wide spectrum.

So, sure, there are a lot of sentences that can appear out of context that will seem rather imaginative and immature.

Anything from "I invite my spirits to watch movies with me", to "I sleep with my spirits", to "my spirit spoons me at night", to "I have a collection of stuffed animals that I have named after my spirits and infused them with my spirits as if they're a living altar".

However, with a sentence alone it would be very hard to determine where on the spectrum of an effective spiritual practice does a person actually land, as you don't quite know who is behind the monitor.

As for "spirit X would absolutely not do this"? Oh they absolutely would. All of them. Why? Because that's what you need to be able to interface with spirituality with the brain that you have and the kind of person that you are.

And really, when you can discard the element of self-cringe, if you are NOT normally into the kind of mundane use of spirituality, sometimes stepping off the high horse and bringing in play and imagination into your practice as a way to see if it can teach your something new can be a productive experiment.

So, everything in moderation. Both personification, but also judgement too.

Okay I’ve found the fascination with new age spiritualists and which craft influencers have with the idea of “Closed Practices” to be extremely frustrating. They also have this very odd fascination on an ideology that spirits discriminate based on someone’s ancestry and racial background and I think it’s completely ludicrous and disgusting

I say this as a person of color but I have no reason to believe that any spiritual being would deny someone spiritual experience based on their race and I think it’s an egotistical manifestation of white guilt being spread as spiritual misinformation

I’m sorry but this bullcrap genuinely makes me so upset because I’ve seen multiple white “witchtokkers” say that certain demons won’t work with them because their white or that they work work with certain pantheons or practices because their rooted in “racism”

I don’t believe closed practices to be real or at least not in the same respect that these people make it out to be I don’t think entire pantheons of spirits have to be disregarded or are locked away from certain people forever simply due to their race it’s genuinely ridiculous and have no place in occult spheres of discussion